Patch 1.27

[Warseeker]

If I understand correct. With this patch 1.27, that means there will be more patch to come, right?
Why they doing this, why they can not just create a final realise like other games and not just update few things every single time.

 

[Vladadamm]

They have the wrong boarders so would need too much work. Also it would raise the requirements of HDD space.

Hmm, i don't think it would be that much work as it can be automatized fairly easily. Blizzard should have those icons without the wow borders, so then it's only applying a few simple modifications (layers) to a lot of pictures, which is batch processing (and they should already have the programs for that).
But well, ofc there's the problem of hdd space as you said, which could only be solved with a lot of work (i.e. : removing all the variants of an icon such as dis/btn/etc... to only keep the PAS variant, and then make the game generate the dis, btn, etc... variants as they're needed, but that would mean changing how the game works and might influence performances)

 

[Somebassoon]

Right now, the default race "number" is 4, any chance of it being raised to 12 so players can get different UIs/Sound cues? Minor thing but would be useful if you, as an example, want the default 4 race UIs + 2 more, one that uses the High Elf worker model as a worker icon and one that uses the Naga Icon and UI. Being able to dynamically change these with triggers would be good too, for things like switching races mid game.

Triggers that are basically
>Change (player) (UI art) to X
and
>Change (player) (sound que (eg, base is attacked, hero dies etc) to X
would work.
Also, a proper built in, modifiable music system would be easy to make and would be nice as well (one that lets you shuffle music, change playlists for each player mid game and modify it however you need, like not having the same soundtrack repeat twice and so on) would be easy to make but still useful.

Also, again, better performance would be major, both in being to handle more units and triggers at the same time. Considering how old the engine is and how SC2 handles it, WC3 works pretty well, but it could be better.

A dynamic icon system would be Ok, though not necessary in my opinion.

What would be amazing, is a way that allows you to refer to units with locust directly without using roundabout methods which tank performance, eg if I want to select 6 locusted units near a target point and replace them, if there are a 100 of those units on the map, it would tank the games performance every time.

And being able to easily get real/integer numbers (such as Art - Death Time (seconds) from the object editor into a trigger variable would be useful.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Instead of adding new content, it would be much better if they fixed the existing content. Such as mirror image performance, shockwave performance and issues, local declared local handle variable reference counter leak, Player(16) crash, missing GUI wrappers for actions, World Edit crash on some GUI action selection, etc.

Where as new content might require a lot of work, fixing some of these issues should be considerably more easy.

 

[Somebassoon]

Oh yeah, the animations for the corrupted ancients (the satyr ones from the RoC campaign) still have buggy animations, should probably be fixed.
And some fields (like with channel or envenomed spears) in the object editor can't easily be copy pasted.

 

[Warseeker]

Yup, And I would like if Blizzard would like to fix the original building animation (Human & Orc building), by making a death animation for everyone of them and change that original death animation tol explose animation, and that will make sense when you destroy them by units and not catapultes.

Also, I was wondering, can Blizzard change the original UI of Warcraft to the World of Warcraft UI, that can be very useful if you want to use so many spells/ items, the screen became large, and the hero can cost many spells at the same time with a countdown, I mean like World of Warcraft itself, and with that we can add over 20 different spells to a units instead of using only 6 abilities and only six items to hold.
I find this a very good idea, don't you think? I wish that come true.

And again, the idea of allowing a player to command his unit inside a specifed player E.g PlayerRed (In battle.net of course), which will help alots of people if they want to play in the same team (Player)

And what about adding more stuff like spells system and fix some previous ones.

 

[Somebassoon]

Would a custom unlimited "faction" system be possible? For AIs that is. Basically, imagine being able to have as many computer players as possible, who have their own team setups, names and everything, would be very useful for RPGs and any maps that want to properly and dynamically use some sort of advanced AI systems between players. Right now, there are only 4 neutral players outside of the 12 playable players, and having at least 12 more couldn't hurt (if they update the engine).

 

[Roland]

-Extend resource limits upto 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Gold, Lumber, Food, Life, Mana and Cooldowns.

 

[Somebassoon]

Might be a bit too much, but getting rid of hard coded limits would be amazing. Also fixing some random bugs like not being able to trigger negative height and the non-working set scale trigger for units would be useful. Fixing orbs with artillery attacks crashing the game is also an annoying bug.

Also, a proper custom projectile system plus a "unit is hit by an ability" trigger would be useful as well, though if optimization happens and damage detection systems cause 0 performance issues (as unlikely as it is) it won't be necessary. And being able to make a unit unselectable without using any locust related tricks (which make it unpickable) would be nice too.

A custom classification system for targeting would be nice as well, and shouldn't be too hard to do.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Yup, And I would like if Blizzard would like to fix the original building animation (Human & Orc building), by making a death animation for everyone of them and change that original death animation tol explose animation, and that will make sense when you destroy them by units and not catapultes.

Unlikely they will be developing new content for WC3. Especially seeing how they did not bother with this for StarCraft II, a much more recent game, when they ported the models to it. In fact as good as every model bug was ported across.

I find this a very good idea, don't you think? I wish that come true.

Would require too much development work and has a good chance of breaking many existing custom maps.

A new UI would be a good idea though. Especially for wide screen support one is required. Also for professional level a "slim-line" UI similar to StarCraft II would be good with overall smaller buttons and more screen area for gameplay.

-Extend resource limits upto 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Gold, Lumber, Food, Life, Mana and Cooldowns.

Mana already has a much larger limit as it is internally represented as a floating point.

Raising the limit to such an extreme for food and resources is a bad idea as it will degrade map performance as instead of it being a 32 bit integer it becomes a dynamic length number. It also is completely unnecessary as such large numbers are never needed (even Diablo III is still in the billion range and that has inflated to joke levels).

I do agree that the resource limit should be raised however. Raising it to StarCraft II levels of 2,147,483,647 maximum would be a good idea. This is over 2,000 times larger for gold/lumber and 6 million times larger for food. Do note that StarCraft II does not actually have such a large supply limit as that game uses fixed point for supply (fractional supply for Zerglings) however WC3 should have no such restriction and so be able to handle that much food. This is assuming signed 32 bit integers, if they are unsigned the limits can be doubled but more care must be taken in case of underflow.

 

[MasterHaosis]

DSG, but they should left us ability to add or at least replace current colors. This is not possible, its hard coded to those, plus neutral hostile/passive/agressive which is black.
They could ad least let us import new colors and team glows over existing ones, replacing them.

 

[Warseeker]

They could ad least let us import new colors and team glows over existing ones, replacing them.

They can be exported and replaced by new ones, it just a simple texture edit, plus adding more color teams is a neat idea tho.

 

[MasterHaosis]

Warseeker, we had thread for that long time ago, it is not possible, you can't export, edit color and import back into World Edit to override current one, for example replacing red into turquoise since game wont read colors from map file, but from mpq. So it is possible to alter colors in mpq, but still it is for player only, if you give map to someone else, he will still see original color. So updating it to read colors from maps would be awesome or even giving us ability to add some

 

[Warseeker]

Maybe, but it depend on the correct path exported from the mpq, As far as I know, you can exporte a texture with Magos, edited then importe it to the map and set to the appopriate path and it will work.

 

[Somebassoon]

A way to properly que orders through triggers would be nice.

 

[MasterHaosis]

Warseeker, we had thread and few pages of research there http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/world-editor-help-zone-98/custom-colors-214970/index4.html
its not working ,we tried it. Team Colors and team glows game reads from mpq directly, only what you can to either to alter mpq colors or to allow local files. But still it is only for your game, this cannot be done per map.

 

[Somebassoon]

Wont happen, but it'd be great if a turret system was made, that can have units that serve as attachments and shoot/use abilities independently of the main unit, with options as to whether or not they're selectable. There is a custom Jass one but its not viable for large scale usage.

 

[Spellbound]

Oh yeah that would be great to have.

Since I've been having a hard time getting lightning effects to have the same Z height as units with respect to terrain I would love if Blizzard added a way to set a lightnng effect's z to the ACTUAL z of a unit. Either that or have a way to make beams like in sc2.

 

[A Void]

Looks like it is indeed possible to have true widescreen support, note that this is just a WIP. I just hope that Blizzard does that!

Screenshot

Notice a difference? The game is no longer stretched and 2d interface maintains it's 4;3 resolution. The text is messed up tough.

The creator of this WIP modification is ZUKMAN from D3Scene.

 

[Chaosy]

I need dis.

 

[WhiteFang]

Me too

 

[A Void]

I need dis.

Let's pray that blizzard sees this thread then.

 

[Archimmonde]

Will this patch ever come out?

 

[Cherrymage]

Will this patch ever come out?

"Time will tell. Sooner or later, time will tell." -- Albert Einstein, in Command and Conquer: Red Alert.

 

[Chaosy]

"No!" - Pico in Boku no pico.

Spoiler

Wild assumption appears

 

[WhiteFang]

'we will see'-probably a few of the billions of people that live,and have lived

 

[Archimmonde]

I want the patch soon. I no need the patch after I be dead..

 

[Warseeker]

Warseeker, we had thread and few pages of research there http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/world-editor-help-zone-98/custom-colors-214970/index4.html
its not working ,we tried it. Team Colors and team glows game reads from mpq directly, only what you can to either to alter mpq colors or to allow local files. But still it is only for your game, this cannot be done per map.

Yay, You're right, I didn't think about that, sorry

 

[lolcats121]

Might be a bit too much, but getting rid of hard coded limits would be amazing.

yeah, id love for health to not be limited to 500000

 

[Dr Super Good]

yeah, id love for health to not be limited to 500000

It is not limited to that in Warcraft III. The actual limit is pretty close to a Duodecillion hit points. Of course it is recommended to keep health less than 16 million hitpoints because after that the floating point error is larger than 1 hitpoint.

 

[lolcats121]

It is not limited to that in Warcraft III. The actual limit is pretty close to a Duodecillion hit points. Of course it is recommended to keep health less than 16 million hitpoints because after that the floating point error is larger than 1 hitpoint.

Cant do it in world edit anyway

 

[Dr Super Good]

Cant do it in world edit anyway

Yeh sadly the editor only limits you to 1,000,000,000 hit points (thanks to shift + double clicking field). A billion hitpoints is a lot of orders of magnitude out from a duodecillion hit points.

Attached is proof. In the map the sorceress has 1 billion hitpoints as defined in the object editor. Press Esc to view its hitpoints. Notice how due to floating point error the poor Blood Mage cannot damage it (less damage than the error) yet the rigged Jaina can (more damage than the error). It also cannot reheal damage because its life regeneration is less than the error. The error is probably around 100 hitpoints, possibly slightly less.

ATTACHED! (disabled in this forum?!)

 

[A Void]

Cant do it in world edit anyway

Shift-Click on that field and type your number.

 

[lolcats121]

Shift-Click on that field and type your number.

Thank's i didn't know that! Sorry im a bit of a noob lol

 

[Zwiebelchen]

If you need units with more than 500.000 hitpoints, your game design is flawed anyway.

 

[TKF]

If you need units with more than 500.000 hitpoints, your game design is flawed anyway.

Not if you intend to make a map where you want to "hide" the hit points for the player. If I recall correctly an insanely amount of hp won't show up and be shown as nothing where you normally see the hit points.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Not if you intend to make a map where you want to "hide" the hit points for the player. If I recall correctly an insanely amount of hp won't show up and be shown as nothing where you normally see the hit points.

Why would you ever want to do hide health? Welcome to flawed map design again .

 

[A Void]

Not if you intend to make a map where you want to "hide" the hit points for the player. If I recall correctly an insanely amount of hp won't show up and be shown as nothing where you normally see the hit points.

You could just make the unit "Invulnerable" and hide the invunerable text string in game interface. It also will hide hp.

 

[EagleMan]

If you need units with more than 500.000 hitpoints, your game design is flawed anyway.

I would say it's likely, but not guaranteed, that the game design is flawed. I could see it being useful in RPGs where you may want to increase HP more and more over time, especially if you have difficulty settings. Basically any game that relies on a progression system.

Adding more HP to a unit lets players more easily gauge how difficult an enemy is, in comparison to giving a unit more armor or an ability that reduces damage. At least if you can still see the health.

 

[MasterHaosis]

Yay, You're right, I didn't think about that, sorry

Oh, that is ok, you did not know about that. Well, not a lot of people know about that anyway.

Oh, Dr Super Good told me (I had difficulties when tried to quee unit move paths from rect to rect) that it is not possible to put several paths under same trigger, that they need to be separated (which worked). he said in SCII it works however. So, maybe that could be updated as well

 

[Spellbound]

Just remembered something that would be cool to have in the next patch: in-game rebindable hotkeys for inventory slots that can support combined key presses like alt+q.

 

[Somebassoon]

Any chance of them expanding the limits and optimizing WE? Right now it can end up tanking severely once you have a lot of objects which can be really annoying, some people even having crashes when they get too many units in the object editor.

Also, as I said before, optimizing the main game to hold more objects (doodads/units) and run more triggers at a time is very important.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

I would say it's likely, but not guaranteed, that the game design is flawed. I could see it being useful in RPGs where you may want to increase HP more and more over time, especially if you have difficulty settings. Basically any game that relies on a progression system.

Adding more HP to a unit lets players more easily gauge how difficult an enemy is, in comparison to giving a unit more armor or an ability that reduces damage. At least if you can still see the health.

I do know about the progression issue. In fact, it's something I have to deal with currently anyway. However, there are many easy ways to effectively "squish" the amount of HP a unit requires to be killed even after reaching a certain point in character progression:

1) make the players more busy, so that they can't use their DPS to full potential
2) give the units a health regeneration to offset DPS. For example, if a group deals 5000 DPS and you want to keep the fight going for 100 seconds, instead of giving the boss 500.000 HP you can give it 50.000 HP and instead add a 4500 HPS health regeneration
3) give the unit more armor/resistance
4) give the boss multiple "stages" which refill the health bar, kind of like early arcade games had bosses with multiple health bars
5) skew your overall progression-curve. Make sure that a level gained does not increase your DPS exponentially. Linear progression is a much better game design for RPG content, as it is endlessly scalable and doesn't suffer from the power creep caused by raising percentages too high.

 

[Dr Super Good]

1) make the players more busy, so that they can't use their DPS to full potential

Annoying.

2) give the units a health regeneration to offset DPS. For example, if a group deals 5000 DPS and you want to keep the fight going for 100 seconds, instead of giving the boss 500.000 HP you can give it 50.000 HP and instead add a 4500 HPS health regeneration

Mega annoying design, watch people run away from your map.

3) give the unit more armor/resistance

Recommended solution when scaling becomes an issue.

4) give the boss multiple "stages" which refill the health bar, kind of like early arcade games had bosses with multiple health bars

Also mega annoying as you have no idea how long to kill something.

5) skew your overall progression-curve. Make sure that a level gained does not increase your DPS exponentially. Linear progression is a much better game design for RPG content, as it is endlessly scalable and doesn't suffer from the power creep caused by raising percentages too high.

Recommended design practice.

You forgot to mention the Xenoblade Chronicles approach where you have actual stat progression linear but make levels important in combat. For example if you were attacking an enemy 10 levels higher than you it had +300 accuracy, +300 evasion and a ton of bonus damage so unless you built to compensate you were forced to raise your level if you wanted to even stand a chance. On the other extreme you had those same bonuses if you were 10 levels higher, making that enemy you struggled to kill at level 80 still a push over when at level 90 despite your stat gain being pretty much insignificant.

 

[SA Dashie]

Looks like it is indeed possible to have true widescreen support, note that this is just a WIP. I just hope that Blizzard does that!

Shouldn't be to hard for Blizzard.
Would be awesome to see a clean interface from them.
The interface just needs some positioning mostly on the x axis with some interface filling and it's good to go (in relevance to aspect ratio).

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Annoying.

Not really. A good boss design shouldn't be tank & spank. A boss ability design that requires players to evade attacks (and drop attacking in the process) makes stuff way more interesting. Also, it makes abilities with cooldowns more significant.

 

[Meatmuffin]

If a complicated boss design is annoying, you should play diablo 2 where you just hit a boss and that's it. And this is in no way insulting to D2 because it's my favorite game of all time.

I appreciate both type of bosses.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Not really. A good boss design shouldn't be tank & spank. A boss ability design that requires players to evade attacks (and drop attacking in the process) makes stuff way more interesting. Also, it makes abilities with cooldowns more significant.

Yes but also makes them more susceptible to lag and can infuriate the player, especially if random elements are involved or the boss can chain attacks.

I have seen so many bosses where they have "1 hit kill nukes" you need to dodge that it is not fun anymore. Worse is the RNG usually screws me over because the "doge able nukes" are not dodgeable because they spawned all around me. Why even have health if one shot kills you anyway.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Any news on the "what kind of stuff will Blizzard be looking for in this thread" front?

 

[Bannar]

Any news on the "what kind of stuff will Blizzard be looking for in this thread" front?

Soon™ - that's the one you should be sure about.