Melee Map Making Contest #1

[Ken-E]

@normalice
I'd say the more the better but I think that's good enough.
@Erkan
I think it's ok to add you in the contest but next time please ask me first. Although I like to hear a word from our judge about this.
This contest is our first time to set up and this is really an experimental event. But since our purpose here is to encourage people in joining, I don't really see the harm in that...

 

[sonofjay]

No real update to show right now aside from doing remixer's suggestion of putting a cliff and hiding it with doodads for my custom cliffs. A little tricky to do since I already putted some doodads but it turned out fine.

@Ken-E

We should let people who wants to compete to join. Nothing wrong with that aside from giving PKcrafty more maps to review!

 

[Remixer]

Melee Map Type

After a very interesting debate on Filmtings Glade map.

If you read through the long chat and discussion on how to rate and review melee maps you can see that we could not fit on the same boat. So that is why I am here.

After I read through Filmtings tutorial on how to balance a competitive melee map I got to the conclusion that there is very different kind of melee maps.

As we have a judge who is, as far as I know, very competitive melee player. So I'd like to ask if the contest entries get scored. I know that there is information on the start post of this thread but it still seems very unclear.
I'd like to ask if it's possible to seperate terrain and "balance/layout" from eachother as they are two totally different things.

Also, does including custom made stuff such as custom made creeps and doodads increase the originality and such. As competitive melee maps do not have things like that.

I would also like to ask how strongly the judge rate terrain, balance and so on. Does the map have to fit to the competitive category or is it free melee map contest?

 

[PKCrafty]

If you use custom resources, and they do not affect the gameplay mechanics (make the game unbalanced in some form) you will be awarded more originality and more terrain points possibly as well. This contest is a free melee map contest, you can choose to use custom resources, or choose not to. You will be awarded more points if you can make the custom resources work by not affecting overall balance. I will see if I can make the criteria better.

Although I can see that they are conflicting, I will try my best to be fair in judging with the use of custom and non-custom resources.

 

[Remixer]

I don't think the source of the resources should matter at all. I was just interested if the judging was more of competitive melee or not, but it seems to be pretty 50% of each right?

 

[PKCrafty]

So you want to know if it's a competitive melee map contest, or a best terrain/layout showcase? I'd say both, yes.

 

[sonofjay]

Let us all trust PKCrafty on this. I think he won't be bias on his judging since even though he is a competitive melee mapper he did like some of the custom melee maps here also.

 

[StoPCampinGn00b]

Wow, because of my embarrassing 5/5 mistake, I was happy to see a full on friendly debate instead of flaming. Anyway, I absolutely agree with: "If you use custom resources, and they do not affect the gameplay mechanics (make the game unbalanced in some form) you will be awarded more originality and more terrain points possibly as well."

Do we need other views (as in other judges) on this subject since PKCrafty may be biased? Of course not, he has the guidelines of how it should be judged. I would like to thank you all for making an interesting melee focused past few days on Filmting's Glades' map, I've learned a lot.

Sincerely
-SCN

 

[Shadow Fury]

Ehm, I think I might take part in this contest. A WIP will come soon if I will.

 

[Remixer]

Indeed it was an interesting debate and it was nice discussion and drew a lot of attention. However I do not think it's important to change anything concerning the judges at the moment.

 

[normalice]

So you want to know if it's a competitive melee map contest, or a best terrain/layout showcase? I'd say both, yes.

wait, what? I asked this question in the second post on this thread and got an entirely different answer :-(

 

[Remixer]

Well he did say it was a bit more focused on gameplay, but it is always. The debate was if the small details, like having trees near a creep camp, fountain of health creeps, amount of critters is are in a major role of the contest.

As I understood it, you can make a competitive melee map and it gets rated, however you can also make your map's terrain more appealing and present something that breaks the competitive melee map requirements.

However I understood it so that if you make the "Blizzard" terrain you won't get as many points on that section as if you make a really outstanding terrain. However it's up to the judge to decide.

 

[Ken-E]

@Shadow Fury
Already added you to the contestants, hope to see your work anytime soon.

@normalice
I actually thought I cleared that out and then that happen. Well, there are a lot of people using custom terrain and doodads to create their maps, so let's face it, it is indeed far more attractive than an average vanilla melee map. Although let's also not forget that it's vanilla in Warcraft 3 for terrain advantages such as the infamous Blizzard cliffs. While my statement is somewhat already said in a different way, it's not really what you can put different stuffs such as imports in your map or how 'classic' is your map is but it's all about the overall execution I suppose.

 

[sonofjay]

it's all about the overall execution

For a contest this is the best way to judge a melee map and the good news is that PKCrafty will review the maps that way so you guys doesn't need to worry about anything.

 

[normalice]

well, I don't really know how to do imports, which are kind-of a basic requirement for a flashy looking map. I was under the impression that that wasn't really to be a significant part of the judging criteria.. If I was mistaken, that's a pretty big handicap I'm working with. So, since there has been a rise in participation anyway, if you'd prefer I just remove myself from the contest I don't mind

 

[PKCrafty]

normalice, if you think you do not stand a chance because you're not using costume resources, don't. If you can make your map well balanced, and have a superb terrain, among other things, you stand a chance against those that use costume terrain. The people using costume terrain take the risk of making the game unbalanced, but if they can execute it well, and solve the issues they will encounter, then they will benefit from it.

So you could say not using costume resources is safe,
and using them is risky, but comes with big benefits if the overall balance is fine.

 

[Remixer]

normalice, you can look at my maps, only two of them include custom imports ( made by others than me ). The maps are : Swampling's Lullaby, and Elder Lands ( which has only Blizzard made imports anyway ).

 

[normalice]

oh. fair enough.

By the way, did you have any tips for the WIP I posted?

 

[PKCrafty]

Oh, no I didn't sorry, but I just checked your WIP now.

So your map is unbalanced in a couple different areas, one being that there's not much wood at starting locations, yes you put a lot in the corners but it is impractical to harvest wood from that far. So this map favors night elf, since wisps do not destroy trees when harvesting, and undead is really screwed since it needs blight to build on. I highly suggest adding more wood at the starting location since it is hurting the balance of the game from the lack of wood.

 

[PKCrafty]

Oh, no I didn't sorry, but I just checked your WIP now.

So your map is unbalanced in a couple different areas, one being that there's not much wood at starting locations, yes you put a lot in the corners but it is impractical to harvest wood from that far. So this map favors night elf, since wisps do not destroy trees when harvesting, and undead is really screwed since it needs blight to build on. I highly suggest adding more wood at the starting location since it is hurting the balance of the game from the lack of wood.

Secondly, the cliffs on the outside of the starting locations need fixed, they are imbalanced. Siege units could devastate the opponents base sitting below the cliffs where I made the red circles. (Especially flying siege units, such as chimeras with corrosive breathe upgrade)

click

A possible way of fixing this is extending the base height that way, and making tall cliffs. Add some rocky doodads or something of the sort to have it blend in with the atmosphere.

 

[normalice]

cool. thanks. FYI those are (dense) canopy trees at the starting locations - about 4k lumber or so - more than enough to hold one over until a lumber mill/warmill/graveyard can be comfortably placed elsewhere.

I'll work on the cliff thing, though I don't quite understand the imbalance? I mean, obviously it inhibits ground forces, but isn't that a problem that both players have to deal with equally, regardless of race? You mentioned chims - the only thing that really protects chims from enemy aa is the panda, which will have problems fending off enemy aa over a cliff.

But, like I said, I'll work on it anyway..

 

[BaiLang]

How to join the contest? Is it just posting "I want to join!"?

Where to make the map presentation?

Pls help!

I want to join this contest!!!

 

[Ken-E]

@BaiLang
Yes, I suppose it's simple as that. Present your WiP at a post and upload your map before November 14th since its the deadline. Hope to see your work

 

[BaiLang]

<Ken-E>
Oh, ahha. Thank you for helping me about those questions ;-)

I hv done some parts and screenshots will be posted as soon as possible, maybe it's next day?


It's happy to see mapmakers here
PS: I havent meet a war3 mapmaker in my life...

 

[Remixer]

Map around half done. Lay out is 80% finished (still a few places that might change).
Decoration is done around 50%.
Creeps & Critters 10% :>

 

[DED1]

Hey there. I'd like to join the contest as well, if that's fine.

 

[Ken-E]

@DED1
You're already in the list! Present your WiP at a post and upload your map before November 14th.

I'm really happy that many people are really participating!

 

[sonofjay]

Glad to see more contestant joining! I'm also almost done with my entry. Layout is already solid although I might widen some obvious choke points on my terrain.

 

[BaiLang]

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/pastebin.php?id=agxgby
It's hard to upload it -.-
No process today, this is the process of yesterday!

 

[Erkan]

Hi. Another WiP from my work:

WiP

Except for the creep camps and some minor terrain modifications, I think this map is almost done (Or at least it won't change that much). So, if I must have one tip for one of my WiP, I think it should be for this one.

 

[DED1]

Is it permissible to add triggers and custom units (creeps) as long as the Melee balance is not violated?

 

[PKCrafty]

Yes, just try to keep the game balanced and mechanics the same as a traditional melee map.

 

[BaiLang]

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/pastebin.php?id=kp73rg
last WiP

----------


THE LAST ENTRY

Jiang! Jiang!
No triggers are modified, melee status: Yes.
Sorry for joining the contest with a noob map

It's noob in a creative style, hope you try it, lolx
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/pastebin.php?id=ibtcd1 /ended due to laziness, really sorry for disappointing :'(

 

[lazerg20555]

I rlly like this.....i rlly do.... but my maps aren't under 5 MB, not even close
Dnt get me wrong they're not large scale, it's just warcraft 3 skirmish same as the ones we've played since ever, just alot flashier and more...elaborate, detailed I rlly wish there wasn't this limit, I'd be the first to toss my hat into that ring if that were the case

 

[Remixer]

As far as I know the limit is 8.0 MB and there is actually a tool to evade this limit.

 

[PKCrafty]

I will be updating the criteria soon, it will not affect how your maps are in anyway. I just want to make it more clear, for there is really no category for balance to judge for current criteria, so I will be adding Overall Balance. Will update when have time with description and what not. No need to be alarmed, just letting you guys know.

 

[imforfun]

Hello! this is my first time trying a contest so I hope i do this right hehe.

here are some screenshots of my progress on my map!

ScreenShot1

ScreenShot2

ScreenShot3

Still got a bit to go, but its go-in good!

 

[Ken-E]

Guys, deadlines is only just a week away. I'm really hoping to see the melee maps yet to be shown. Good luck to all and as always happy mapping.

EDIT: Finally finished my map! Just putting on the finishing touches and it's ready to go.

Screenshot

 

[Erkan]

Hi. So, my map is finally done. here it is : The drowned kingdom

Map Overview

Terrain Screenshots

WIP

 

[Ken-E]

@Erkan
Nice work! Although would change small letters to capital ones, it should be "The Drowned Kingdom"

Also here is my map, http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/pastebin.php?id=eqwt09
I will be posting mine at the map section after judging is done. I'm currently working on merit badges for the winners and probably for the judge too.

Happy mapping guys!

EDIT: Here's a preview of our winner and judge banners, not there are not yet final and I was thiking of resizing them since they feel too big :/

Sample Judge Banner

Sample Winner Banner

 

[imforfun]

HEEELLOOO, all done with mine now too : ).

here is the link to it: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/maps-564/haunted-pumpkin-forest-259357/

and there is a lot of info and picks there too!

GL and HF everyone, had a great time myself. : D

P.S. I made a few models for the map but its the map that is being judged not them, so just don't mind them! ^_^ (also uploaded them if anyone wants to use them for any reason)

 

[Ken-E]

@imforfun
Hi there! We didn't not see you joining the contest but we like to welcome you. While the map looks fresh and new, is there a chance you could post your WiP as a proof of work, thank you!

 

[imforfun]

If you look a few posts back on page 9 I posted 3 Wips but I will gladly re-post them. : )

WIPS:

ScreenShot1

ScreenShot2

ScreenShot3

In addition to those i also save a In case version of my maps every 1-3 hours so I have around 20 between versions of the map I can share or go back to ^_^, just let me know if you need more proof : D! thanks

 

[Ken-E]

@imforfun
Aye, thanks sorry for doubting you. I should have seen that.

Only 1 or 2 day/s left until the Melee Contest Ends...

 

[normalice]

finished mine: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/maps-564/watchers-wild-259421/

 

[imforfun]

All good, : D GL everyone!

Already cannot wait for another contest lol

 

[Remixer]

Trying to finish the map before the contest ends.

 

[Remixer]

Soz I "finished" the map, I can't really give it much effort as I have no inspiration or interest.

Pastebin Link

 

[Arrr]

My entry

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/maps-564/lone-paths-259464/?prev=status=p

 

[PKCrafty]

Hello there, I will begin judging the uploaded maps soon, as I believe I can do at least one tomorrow, maybe two. Will keep you updated on progress.