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60,000 passwords have been reset on July 8, 2019. If you cannot login, read this.

Lumber TD 3.05

Submitted by opiemonster
This bundle is marked as pending. It has not been reviewed by a staff member yet.

Harvest lumber and defend against waves of enemy forces in this unique PvP Tower Defence.
Discord: Join the Lumber TD Discord Server!

Classic Version: Lumber TD Classic - Warcraft 3 Maps - Epic War.com
FFA Version: Lumber TD 2.91 - Warcraft 3 Maps - Epic War.com




  • Destroy all enemy town halls to win the game
  • If you loose your town hall you will loose.
  • If you do not construct your town hall before the game start timer, you will loose.

  • Barracks spawn units that attack the closest town hall from your town hall
  • Construct lumber mills to train woodcutters
  • Killing enemy units and structures gives you gold
  • Build gold converts to convert gold back to wood

  1. 1.26 - 12/10/2019 - Release
  2. 1.27 - 12/10/2019 - Reduced captain health and damage, increased archer damage and build speed, fixed lumber refiners building too much
  3. 1.28 - 12/10/2019 - Fixed lumber converters not giving wood
  4. 1.29 - 12/10/2019 - Fixed game winning twice, added long timeout to peasants in case they persist through upgrades (to reduce pathing lag late game)
  5. 1.30 - 12/10/2019 - Reduced tank health, armor, spawn time, fixed lumber wizard hotkeys (repair, gather)
  6. 1.32 - 14/10/2019 - various bug fixes, new elite ranger unit, upgrade system, unit level up system
  7. 1.33 - 14/10/2019 - bug fixes & balancing
  8. 1.34 - 15/10/2019 - bug fixes, balancing, new tech options
  9. 1.35 - 15/10/2019 - made tanks cost 50k (designed to be game ending unit)
  10. 1.37 - 19/10/2019 - bug fixes & balancing
  11. 1.40 - 22/10/2019 - new end game upgrade, balancing.
  12. 1.45 - 23/10/2019 - changed upgrades, wizard abilities, balancing, bug fixes
  13. 1.46 - 23/10/2019 - balance changes, increased cost of town hall upgrades (most optimal strat ws to just get very few buildings and tech very quickly, also reduces snowballing, slowing the game down a bit between tiers allows more 'plays' to occur)
  14. 1.49 - 24/10/2019 - bug fixes, balancing
  15. 1.50 - 25/10/2019 - slightly reduced early wizard damage, increased lv 1 barracks cost by 50, very slightly increased lv 1 tower dmg +hp (early rushing was a bit too strong)
  16. 1.51 - 25/10/2019 - reduced tower build time to 3s, increased damage by 1
  17. 1.53 - 25/10/2019 - reduced cost of town hall 2, 3, made towers have fortified armor
  18. 1.54 - 25/10/2019 - increased magic damage against fortified (50%), reduced lv 1 tower damage by 50
  19. 1.55 - 26/10/2019 - reduced damage & range of elite archers, reduced cost of workshop by 5k, increased cost of elite rangers by 5k, increased tower level-up hp to 25
  20. 1.55 - 27/10/2019 - changed name from 1.5 to 1.55
  21. 1.56 - 29/10/2019 - many late game changes & bug fixes
  22. 1.57 - 30/10/2019 - 100 unit cap per player, woodcutter militia now destroyed on upgrade/lodge destruction, slightly reduced cost of higher level towers, fixed issue with hp upgrades in flight form not working, slightly reduced cost of end game barracks, archers, priests
  23. 1.58 - 1/11/2019 - swapped cost of exporter & oupost, increased damage of starfall tower to +250
  24. 1.59 - 2/11/2019 - fixed various bugs, increased unit cap to 120, fixed bug where units exceeded 120 cap later in game, added 1 extra player
  25. 1.61 - 07/11/2019 - Many balance changes
  26. 1.62 - 09/11/2019 - fixed bug where units would spawn for player, instead of being removed when units are maxed
  27. 1.63 - 09/11/2019 - fixed bug where max unit cap would not uncap. Added tree spawner, waygate buildings
  28. 1.64 - 11/11/2019 - fixed bug where max unit cap would not uncap (hopefully the last)
  29. 1.65 - 11/11/2019 - Added Item shop + various abilities
  30. 1.66 - 12/11/2019 - Fixed bugs, fixed exporter 2 not auto training
  31. 1.67 - 12/11/2019 - added start delays to items, made firebolt ability use black dragon welp art, tweaked mana cost of abilities
  32. 1.69 - 14/11/2019 - Reduced cost of items, increased gold gained from buildings/peasants, slightly increased health of t2 woodwarriors, slightly increased cost of t2 woodcutter lodges
  33. 1.70 - 15/11/2019 - Reduced cost of waygate, increased health by +2500hp
  34. 1.71 - 15/11/2019 - reduced cost of barracks 1/2, gold converter 1/2, increased cost of woodcutters 2, reduced cost of items further. Reduced wood wizard tree damag to 12
  35. 1.72 - 15/11/2019 - increased damage of blizzard by 25
  36. 1.73 - 16/11/2019 - fixed items being dropped on death, removed bottom right base
  37. 1.74 - 23/11/2019 - modified waygate to make units spawn from it and attack closest base, increased time/cost of blizzard item, reduced cost of upgrades to 20k lumber, reduced cost & pre-time of fireball item
    1.75 - 27/11/2019 - reduced building damage by blizzard to 20%, increased mana cost to 35, reduced mana cost of flamebolt to 65, fixed issues with buildings not retraining after running out of resources/capping units
  38. 1.76 - 24/11/2019 - bug fixes, lumber shredder
  39. 1.78 - 25/11/2019 - lumber bundles scale over time, fixed bug where converters/exporters dont spawn if there is no gold/wood
  40. 1.8 - 29/11/2019 - changed game to support 12 players
  41. 1.82 - 30/11/2019 - added speed shrine, added archers lv 1 & 2, balancing, bug fixes
  42. 1.84 - 30/11/2019 - balancing, bug fixes
  43. 1.85 - 30/11/2019 - modified starting positions surrounded by trees
  44. 1.86 - 30/11/2019 - reduced snowballing, nerfed starting positions surrounded by trees
  45. 1.87 - 30/11/2019 - reduced hp of woodwarriors, reduced health of corner base trees, added weak trees to starting positions surrounded by trees
  46. 1.91 - 1/12/2019 - bug fixes, balancing
  47. 1.95 - 02/12/2019 - Fixed upgrade bug, added more shrines
  48. 1.96 - 06/12/2019 - Bug fixes
  49. 2.02 - 07/12/2019 - Bug Fixes
  50. 2.09 - 08/12/2019 - Balancing & Bug Fixes
  51. 2.10 - 09/12/2019 - Reduced tower hp/damage, increased cost, reduced cost of t5 units
  52. 2.24 - 15/12/2019 - lumber mills & gold convers significantly more efficient, rebalanced cost & stats of all buildings to make game faster paced.
  53. 2.25 - 18/12/2019 - added build time back to main castle, reduced lumber from lv1/2 castle death, slightly increased lv 1 tower hp, increased build time of frost shrine to 5, reduced frost armor amount, reduced lv 1 wood warrior damage by 2
  54. 2.28 - 20/12/2019 - added wolf in center, added emergency mode, added berserk shrine, minor bug and balance fixes, added starting potion & town portal
  55. 2.29 - 20/12/2019 - minor bug fixes
  56. 2.30 - 20/12/2019 - slightly increased tower armor, reduced lv 1/2 peasant gold from kills, increased gold converter lv1 cost by 50. reduced wolf gold to 1K
  57. 2.31 - 30/12/2019 - slight buff to lv5 militia hp, slightly reduced archer attack speed, increased priest cost, reduced heal to 1500 per 2.5 seconds, reduced large trees in bottom right, limited outpost peasant teleport to 40 to reduce issues with path finding with over 50 units
  58. 2.32 - 31/12/2019 - reduced archer range & damage, increased damage dice, increased cost of gold converter, removed wolf, reverted lumber outpost 40 unit cap change, fixed bug where fire shrine gave 50% bonus damage instead of 25%, removed rally points from various buildings, fixed bug where lv lumber mill wont auto train, increased cost of lumber carry upgrade to 35
  59. 2.33 - 02/01/2019 - removed food cost from lumber outpost, reduced tree farm tree health to 2K from 2.5K, reduced priest health to 500
  60. 2.34 - 05/01/2019 - updated lumber exporter tooltip, reduce priest healing to 1K every 3 seconds from 1.5 every 2.5 seconds
  61. 2.35 - 08/01/2019 - made crow form abilities require t2 upgrade select, reduced time of silence, reduced cast range and aoe slightly. Made fire and berserk shrines require t3 upgrade. Slightly reduced cost of t2-t4 lumber mills, slightly reduced damage of lv 1 militia, slightly reduced amount of lumber rewarded on town hall death. Reduced cost of tower upgrade to 15K from 25K. Increased cost of Wooden Staff from 250 to 500 gold.
  62. 2.36 - 11/01/2019 - fixed bug where t4 units were not getting upgrades
  63. 2.37 - 17/01/2020 - added -who command to see who you are attacking and being attacked by, also printed at game start. Added new units: cold tower, balista tower, wall 1-5, starfall 2, workshop/tank 2, priest/monastary 2, treefarms lv 1-3. Rebalanced item costs, units, waygate, shrines, lumber outpost
  64. 2.40 - 17/01/2020 - gain gold on attack with wood warriors, updated unit models, changed outpost build time to 7 seconds, cost to 5000 wood, 5 food. Added lesser tree destroy, tree create items given at start of game.
  65. 2.41 - 18/01/2020 - removed emergency from t1 castle due to exploit, replaced with damage. replaced. other minor balance/exploit, typo fixes
  66. 2.42 - 18/01/2020 - more rework of map, 9 new castle upgrade types, new building (upgrade center), new upgrades, all town halls have an attack, emergency mode removed, rebalancing.
  67. 2.43 - 18/01/2020 - bug where lumber upgrade didnt work
  68. 2.44 - 18/01/2020 - added more trees to center to stop building in center, increased gold change on hit upgrade from 2% to 3%, reduced fire shrine healing from 500 to 300, reduce attack speed of berserk shrine from 30% to 25% and removed movement speed gain.
  69. 2.46 - 18/01/2020 - fixed t5 gold upgrade not working
  70. 2.49 - 19/01/2020 - reduced woodcutters movement speed, harvest speed, reduced damage of 1-4 towers, tooltip fixes, -who fix, other bug fixes
  71. 2.51 - 19/01/2020 - merged t1 castle/woodlitia upgrades together, added new +10 food upgrade
  72. 2.52 - 19/01/2020 - reverted woodcastle size to normal for t1, reduced wizard respawn time for later tiers, reduced healing of fire shrine to 250 and cost to 2500, fixed typos
  73. 2.53 - 19/01/2020 - fixed efficient woodwarrior upgrade x/y command card location
  74. 2.54 - 19/01/2020 - made outpost spawn in units periodically instead of all at once to reduce pathing lag, made fireshrines buildable by all, inner fire requires advanced shrines, reduced armor of lv 3 & 4 frost shrine, changed items to use wood, added 15 second cd to wizard damage items, slightly reduced wizard rez time, increased wizard armor and health
  75. 2.55 - 22/01/2020 - added new item shop at 20 mins into the game + various new items, significantly increased gold produced from gold converters, increased gold on hit, reduced gold from woodwarrior deaths, increased woodcutter tree damage & carry weight, added woodcutter stats to tooltip
  76. 2.56 - 22/10/2020 - reduced item costs, increased damage of improved blizzard, increased chance for gold on hit from 10% to 15%
  77. 2.56 - 24/10/2020 - increased upgrade time of some towers, buffed crow form abilities
  78. 2.58 - 24/10/2020 - increased damage of woodwarrior 2-4, halved tree damage for normal trees, made wizard be able deal full damage before building first town hall, reduced size of town hall, reduced build time for outpost, cannon, t1 starfall tower
  79. 2.59 - 24/10/2020 - replaced medium and weak trees with normal trees, made t1 town hall upgrade be able to attack buildings, slightly reduced damage of t2-4 woodwarriors
  80. 2.60 - 24/10/2020 - reduced cost of t1 tree farm to 2500, increased health slightly of all tree farms, made staff of nature/inferno free with 60s cd
  81. 2.61 - 25/01/2020 - made speed shrine build able at t1 reduced cost of items, changed food upgrade, changed lumber staffs, bug fixes
  82. 2.62 - 26/01/2020 - fixed items being lost on death
  83. 2.63 - 26/01/2020 - reworked some upgrades, renamed research center to lumber lab
  84. 2.64 - 26/01/2020 - optimisations/lag reduction, reduced total food, scaled build time of woodcutters from 6-30s from t1 to t5, fixed typos, increased health of lumber exporters significantly (prep for reforged)
  85. 2.65 - 26/01/2020 - reverted food reduction, only applies to t5 woodcastle, reworked more upgrades, added Greater hood of the forest (+150 mana, +200% mana regen), made lumber wizard start with 50% mana on death
  86. 2.66 - 26/01/2020 - updated unit attack priorities (units -> towers -> town hall -> other buildings), fixed ending cam not working for non winning players
  87. 2.67 - 26/01/2020 - upgraded treefarm and lumber exporter upgrades, reduced cost of lumber exporters
  88. 2.72 - 27/01/2020 - fixed flight form upgrade not working, fixed improved woodcastle building upgrade (armor+hp) not working, Reverted t5 castle back to 150 food, new health regen items, reduced exporter talent from 25% to 20% chance to double gold, updated gold bounty on buildings and units, updated tooltips, fixed woodcutters not dying from lumber mill death, added leaderboard, updated intro tutorial messages
  89. 2.74 - 27/01/2020 - fixed player color, fixed frost shrine tooltip, increased time before unit start training when constructing/upgrading a structure, less for repeated training
  90. 2.75 - 27/01/2020 - fixed leaderboard attack target bug
  91. 2.76 - 27/01/2020 - fixed outpost hotkey call to arms being Z which destroys the outpost
  92. 2.77 - 28/01/2020 - lumber wizard crow form now has same hp as normal wizard but takes x10 times more damage, flight form upgrade gives +10 armor, fixed wind walk not being added when leaving flight form.
  93. 2.78 - 30/01/2020 - fixed reforged related issues, modified terrain
  94. 2.80 - 30/01/2020 - fixed player colors not working in leaderboard
  95. 2.81 - 04/02/2020 - fixed an issue where the game looked like a mobile game and was very laggy (unsure how this happened)
  96. 2.83 - 07/02/2020 - made some buildings in main wizard command card, made woodcastle t1-3 spawn more woodwarriors, increased damage of woodwarrior 1 and 2 by 5
  97. 2.84 - 09/02/2020 - fixed issue with items being lost on death, made consumables not lost on death
  98. 2.85 - 09/02/2020 - fixed items becoming unlimited on death, made crow form transformation invulnerable
  99. 2.86 - 10/02/2020 - fixed more item issues, added anti air tower
  100. 2.89 - 12/02/2020 - replaced invulnerability pots with invisibility pots, added sight tower, sight gem, slightly reduced captain armor, added dispel to priests, reduced gold bounty of t4 and t5 towers, increased cost of t4 and t5 gold converters, reduced t5 town gold upgrade from 5% to 3%, removed level up from towers when killing peasants/militia
  101. 2.90 - 14/02/2020 - merged sight/air tower into anti crow tower, enabled reforged graphics again
  102. 2.91 - 15/02/2020 - fixed towers not working
  103. 2.93 - 16/02/2020 - made game 6v6 instead of FFA, added poison tower, rebalancing, bug fixing
  104. 2.94 - 19/02/2020 - reduced tower rushing, reverted town hall size to 6x6
  105. 2.98 - 21/02/2020 - reduced health, damage and attack speed of poison tower, added FFA, 2v2v2v2v2v2, 3v3v3v3, 4v4v4, 6v6 modes, increased woodcastle health
  106. 2.99 - 22/02/2020 - bug fixes
  107. 3.00 - 23/02/2020 - item bug fix, reverted crow form transformation speed, new glaive tower, new arcane tower, fixed FFA AI allied units attacking allies
  108. 3.01 - 23/02/2020 - bug fixes
  109. 3.02 - 07/03/2020 - fixed bug where pesants wouldnt respawn on death
  110. 3.04 - 08/03/2020 - increased mana regen of sobi mask from 100% to 200%, increased mana regen of greater hood of the forest from 200% to 500%, fixed lv 2 tower icon location, reduced cost of anti crow tower, reduced health of lumber exporters, fixed attack priority of some towers
  111. 3.05 - 12/03/2020 - increased cost of poison tower and starfal tower
Previews
Contents

Lumber TD 3.05 (Map)

Reviews
Kerael
1. Fireball model is the same as attack missile again. :) 2. Cool move with the Item Shop. But I'm sure you're aware that it needs more work. First of all, why do exclusive abilites have different costs? Where is the choice if one of them is just...
moonturtle
Yeah I agree. That's one way to close a game out on two conditions. A) You've developed an economy far superior than the remaining players. B) Your economy isn't superior but you've surprised your neighbor with the sudden transition into barracks....
Paillan
Tested last version. Basically there's no changes to the main issues of the map, which I will repeat here: Frustrating attack system that doesn't let you know who will attack you or who you'll be attacked by, which can lead to players not being attack...
  1. Kerael

    Kerael

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    @opiemonster Hey! There is a Big Bug in the 1.57. The armies spawn indefinitely (way more than the proposed 100) and undergo massive stutters! They mostly belong to player 2, with about 3-5% of them belonging to player 3 (respective AI of each real player, I mean).

    By the way, if you want to limit the unit count to 100 (96 to be precise, it's the amount of units per player that can be moved without causing massive stutters), you can get rid of the player 3 AI (the 2nd one, I mean).
    And what does that mean??? You can finally make it a 12 player map! If you want. :)
    While playing the map, no matter the version, I always wanted to play with more people, 8 is not enough for what the gameflow could become, imo.

    And some notes, as usual:
    These were taken from a 2-hour game (because of the army-bug), recorded as well, but I'm not sure I should upload this, nor am I sure how long will it take to process lmao. :D

    1. Elite Archers have Normal attack type and Light Armor, immense range and a multishot. Attempting to attack those with a Wizard most of the time results in him being slain by the said units.
    1.1 Suggest making them Pierce/Medium, as all the archers should be. The armor type concerns normal Archers as well.
    2. Many hotkeys are missing: basically all the stem upgrades of Level 4 Barracks (cap'ns, archers, etc.), units hired (could use R hotkey; concerns Lumber Conversion as well as it doesn't have a hotkey) and the upgrades at Tier 5.
    2.1 At Tier 5, building a tower has (Level 1) in the tooltip.
    2.2 When you build a Level 4 building (at Tier 5), like a Converter/Barracks etc., it gets displaced upon completion. It seems like you are replacing a placeholder buidling with an actual building, which puts the new buidling before removing the placeholder. I suggest you replacing the building manually: storing the x/y coordinates, health/mana and the owning player, removing the placeholder and then putting a new building.
    2.3 Tooltips for upgrading (Towers, for example) read: Build Wooden Tower; not Upgrade.
    2.4 Cannon Towers cannot be manually destroyed.
    3. Still, I strongly advise you to smooth and flatten the values of different Tiers by a fair amount. Getting to high tech is long and is TOO strong, making the situation one-sided once you have an economic edge.
    And if you're behind, most likely, you wont make it to equalize the situation.
    You can start with something simple: like a factor of 2 increments in HP and damage.
    This will be a lot of labor readjusting the values, but still, it is needed. For now, it's too volatile with Militia health going from 55 to 1500 throughout the game. From 50 to 800, on the other hand, it will be more forgiving for the players who don't quite have the lumber to upgrade yet. The health is just an example, all the values should drop in about the same proportion as they are now.
    3.1 I think Captains should have a Devotion Aura (+3 or +4) instead of Endurance Aura as it synergizes too well with the Archers and their Aura. Also, the Tier 5 upgrade for melee units should include armor instead of attack speed. Currently you only build the damage, resulting in two groups of Archers shooting each other with the deadzone for Militia in between. Some armor could help them getting across and actually damaging the Archers (preferably Normal attack vs Medium armor kind of scenario).
    4. And by the way, how about changing the player colors to their normal order? Red, blue, etc. You can do it with triggers on Map Init. Right now, Maroon can be confused with Red, White is just a whole another problem... and so on. Using the first 8-12 colors would be ideal, I think.
    4.1 Also, you can change the AI's player name to that of it's original player, so it's not just Player 2 fighting Player 17.​
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
  2. Kerael

    Kerael

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    @opiemonster Chill dude, it's not my fault that you can't handle critique. I only wish for this map to improve, if you can look beyond my tone.
    There are tons of perfectly working maps in the substandard section, so it's much wiser to listen than to carol your great designs.

    Can't tell if trolling or just bright.

    I am not accusing you of anything, however it seems to me vividly that you either:
    (a) do not see for yourself the evident issues with the map
    (b) unable to form a deduction about the direction of fixes
    (c) satisfied with what you see / lazy to make meaningful improvements

    The thing is that you confuse bug reports with 'little suggestions'. What I write is not only my opinion, but that of the people I play with. You know, it's kinda funny to see comments like 'they make the map worse day by day' in the lobby. And I didn't want to share in this view just yet, but it seems that there is simply no other way about it. You make erratic changes and neglect feedback (what a fucking combo), and now you're acting full of it only because you didn't reply in due time on what you think is informative and what you deem irrelevant.

    And regarding your perfect workings, I'll send you the video as soon as it uploads. Or maybe I'll even be so kind to find the error myself. Shit, who knows, maybe I'll even tell you.

    It didn't have to be so personal, but I guess there's just no other way with some people.

    EDIT: Your triggers are oozing with errors. Get some pop-corn meanwhile.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
  3. micca

    micca

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    Dude, we know why there are 3 slots per player and we know how the game works, but you literally said in changelog there is 100 units cap per player and if you think he doesn't know what he's talking about then explain it. You don't have to be so rude and full of yourself.
     
  4. Kerael

    Kerael

    Joined:
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    19:19 - first spotted
    1:19:59 - something something on the minimap is what you get for being unreasonably arrogant in your abilities

    The start of the game is actually quite funny. The video is not processed fully yet, so the quality might be poor.

    And yeah, you've just played yourself. Might wanna behave more civilized just in case something like that happens in the future.

    EDIT: Deleting a previous message, huh? Don't worry, I've saved the screenshot of your current stance in case it would get lost by an accident. It kinda saddens me, however, that your action proved mine to be right.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
  5. Kerael

    Kerael

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    Now I see where you're coming from. It appears that you desperately want your map to be approved, but my comments have seemingly impeded that process, spurring the confrontation.

    While I am not in a position to make decisions regarding the categorization of your map, I know that this process has it's own requirements beyond the scope of Map Submission Rules.
    So drop the urgency, noone owes you.

    Now let me ask this as a disclaimer: Am I to blame if my bug reports hold true?*

    About the perceived exaggeration of the bug, was it the word 'big'? Did you check the timestamps? The units (militia, supposedly accounted for) are already stuttering on 19:19. How is this an edge case?
    Your method of splitting the AI into two is flawed: doing it randomly is a non-starter. Instead, add the newly-spawned unit to the AI which has the less units under control. Don't thank me.
    And would you please elaborate what does 'very much playable' mean?*

    Already figured you don't feel like responding to every message. Not like you actually fixed most of the issues pointed out, either. Knowing doesn't really qualify, unless the action is taken.
    And have you ever came across the definition of analysis? It means to literally take something apart. If you are in any way offended by it, that tells me that you can't see the bigger picture behind these points.
    If you actually appreciated the effort put in to support the development and actually attended the points brought up, the playability of your map would increase vastly and you wouldn't get as much negative comments about the map getting worse.

    Instead you're acting as if you're this all-knowing decision-maker, who can't be arsed with little suggestions. Drop it. You don't know anything. Nor you a willing to learn.

    And what do you mean by 'getting a job done'?* What is the outcome you're expecting?* Do you really think there are only minor issues left?*
    Don't even bother bringing this up. Head over to the Map Development Forum.

    * non-rhetorical questions
     

    Attached Files:

  6. 3nemy_

    3nemy_

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    Couple of bugs I found in 1.61

    1. Major bug where at some point units stop producing and the unit icon is greyed out saying "Max Units" required.
    This happened for me (red) and another player who was grey, teal and purple were fine in this particular scenario. When this happened, the units that were already spawned I could manually take control of.
    Only after around half an hour did units start producing again, quite odd.

    2. Not sure if this is a bug or not but sometimes units start wandering off, retreating or just standing still at one place as if their pathing is broken.

    3. Siege engines focusing on Ice or Cannon towers instead of whatever is first so they go around bypassing other towers or buildings just to reach ice or cannon and end up getting easily wiped out.
    I know wizard can aggro units so they follow him however siege engines only target buildings so they shouldn't do this.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. opiemonster

    opiemonster

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    1 is not a bug, that is supposed to happen when units are maxed. I did fix the units spawning for the player, that part was a bug.

    2. that cant be fixed, its in the internal AI, ive reduced it from happening as much as possible though. (press w on town hall to manually order your units)

    3. that also cant be fixed, thats the internal AI, they will go for whatever is attacking them. Ill probably look at increasing their health a bit though, because they are a bit too easy to take down from when they were initially added into the game.
     
  8. 3nemy_

    3nemy_

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    1. My barracks weren't maxed when this started happening, they were level 3, I can send you replay if you want to see.

    2. I notice it happens for top left corner mostly, perhaps redo that part of terrain on top, make wider roads, less trees.
    I killed a critter though and that made units move, but the next wave got stuck at same place again, however critter is neutral unit so this makes no sense.

    3. Perhaps lower Ice tower range as that's the first thing that hits tanks so they target it and go around everything else.
     
  9. opiemonster

    opiemonster

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    1. its when you reach a unit cap of 100, not that you reached max barracks. The cap will go away when units die off.
     
  10. Manonres

    Manonres

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    I think the biggest change that needs to happen is being able to defend against that early barracks push. The lvl 1 towers are so weak you can build anything but towers early to survive and if u got two players attacking you, your instantly dead or the game is over for you as you fall to far behind. You need to buff these lvl 1 towers or reduce there cost because this is just stupid how 2 lvl 1 turrets cant hold against a guy who didn't even build a barracks. Just his keeps units.
     
  11. opiemonster

    opiemonster

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    Game has been tested to be able to hold up to 3 players attacking at the same time. I know its difficulty, but its possible, try using your wizard, his AOE is really good against early units.

    Also try putting buildings in front of your towers to make it hard from them to be hit. You can also stand in the trees and exploit the pathing of units.

    Also, make sure to watch on the minimap for large waves of units incoming to give you valuable time to react.

    Good luck!
     
  12. micca

    micca

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    yeah, I always build 2 towers and they can defend against 2 players easily. (I was never attacked by more than 2 player at once yet)
    The enemy units prefer to attack the wizard over turrets, so just move around them while they shoot at the enemy and try not to die. Also be repairing them if possible. You will get very good gold income, so just build a few convertors and you're pretty much safe.
     
  13. moonturtle

    moonturtle

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    I had a player who couldn't start his unit production even when his units, that were previously of maximum size, died. Resulting in him being completely defenseless, allowing me to obliterate his base. This was in the latest version, 1.63.
     
  14. Kerael

    Kerael

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    The problem with aggro openings is that you lose unless you know they are coming. And if you know, you get fed, propelled to Tier 3 at least.

    @opiemonster How about adding a feature to select your attack-target from say 2-3 closest players (updated on townhall-deaths)? Just a point-target spell (channel), which measures the distance to the nearest Town Hall and if the target is on the available list, select it and confirm with a message. If it's some far away player, tell that it's impossible to attack him now.
    When the game starts (units start attacking, afk people kicked), each player sees pings (yellow or whatever) on the available targets' bases (also new pings on townhall-deaths, if someone's personal list has changed, that is).
    Would add some variety to the gameplay.

    The AI player indices in unit-death trigger are inconsistent with what unit-create triggers use.
    Trigger Time

    This
    trig1.png
    needs to be like this
    trig2.png

    By the way, you never use the 2nd AI unless the 1st one is filled (50 units). And why do you need both of them now if the total limit is 100? You can just use a single AI player with a limit of 80-96 units and enable more players already. Limiting the units by a reasonable amount will only do great for the game.
    That would require either toning the Towers down or making Tanks more accessible and weaker.
    Also, adding slightly more range to Tanks would resolve, to a degree, the issue with long ways around long-ranged towers.
    You can always make a trigger that will tell the tanks to retarget on the Tower that is attacking them If this Tower is closer than the previously remembered Tower.

    Oh and, the trees have 65 hp, and can be abused for lumber. I don't see it as a valid mechanic since it creates disbalance really easy early on. If you click Return after hitting a tree twice, you get 40 lumber, 80 in total. But if you harvest normally, you return 50 lumber per trip, 70 per tree, in total. Kinda weird if you ask me.
    It needs to follow these formulae in order to not be prone to abuse:
    • Lumber Carried Amount = Lumber per Hit * Amount of Hits
    • Tree HP = a * Lumber Carried Amount + b * Lumber per Hit
    where a and b are any integers of your liking.

    With the tree hp you've set there are 'leftovers' either way you cut it.
    Please change these values to something like: 15 lumber per hit, 45 per trip (wizard), 75 tree hp, peasant's X lumber per hit/trip should preferably be divisible by 5 at all times.
     
  15. opiemonster

    opiemonster

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    okay that should be fixed, thanks for the help on that, keral, the + should have a minus.
     
  16. opiemonster

    opiemonster

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    From my testing, the unit pathing seems to break down at about 50 units per player (maybe more with the unit cap fix), also not sure how well the game will perform with 12 players in reforged. I'm not against increasing it, I'm just focusing on other bugs for now, and want to test the game in reforged before I go and do it. When I get to it, ill try a version with 12 players.
     
  17. moonturtle

    moonturtle

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    I played your latest version, 1.66. It feels better to have even 60 wood after 3 chops. I encountered a couple of bugs that I haven't noticed in earlier versions. Awful stuttering started occurring when we approached late game. Also, along with the stuttering: My main base stopped producing units. It didn't affect my barrack for some reason.

    The stuttering wasn't fps related. It just sort of felt like anything you commanded your builder to do was put on queue essentially. The wood soldiers didn't seem affected by it though.

    The tree farms don't have an ability to self destruct. Also I'm not sure about their general purpose in the game. If it is to prevent a player from consistently switching around their workers around the map then it's not spitting out trees fast enough. I probably built like 5 treefarms around my lumbermill and the tree production surely couldn't keep up with a fair amount of wood workers (level 3+).

    I could be wrong here of course, but it seems like the current meta is to find a corner spot where you aren't targeted by anyone and play full on economic. So what usually ends up happening is that you'll have a couple of people wearing each other down while "corner bases" slowly but surely accelerate their economy to the point where those who've fallen behind are doomed due to the sheer power difference in woodworkers.

    The trend I'm noticing is that you really don't want to fall behind economically. Playing anything but safe is far too high risk for the possible reward. What has your experience been playing aggressively these past versions?

    I'll come back with some videos where I illustrate the idea I'm trying to get across regarding the aggressive playstyle.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
  18. Kerael

    Kerael

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    1. Fireball model is the same as attack missile again. :)

    2. Cool move with the Item Shop. But I'm sure you're aware that it needs more work. First of all, why do exclusive abilites have different costs? Where is the choice if one of them is just better?
    2.1 The Wands seemed as a bad fit to a, pretty much, ability shop. It's hard to balance raw stats with utility stuff like invis/stun and the weak-staff seems redundant. However combining 2 weak-ones into a stronger wand (non -purchasable) would be cool!
    I suppose multishot wouldn't work with splash, unless you code it, but some feature like that would be great. Maybe an attack modifier with mana cost.
    2.2 Didn't try Blizzard, 250 total damage isn't worth it, unless it has normal cooldown of 9-10 seconds.
    Edit: tried Blizzard, was only good against woodcutters lvl 1. 50% damage to buildings is non-impactful past Tier 2 (125 out of 1-2k health).
    2.3 Flamestrike dealing no damage to units is underwhelming, not like I couldn't kill these trees with auto-attacks.
    2.4 Grow Trees has 0 cooldown. I've used it to great avail though, built a wall to protect the towers from tanks, combined with afk Tree Farms to almost completely cover the backdoor. I guess something like 4-10 seconds as a cooldown would be fine too.
    2.5 Fireball cooldown is too long. And yeah, I mean it has 0 cooldown but costs 75 of your 100 mana, so it's the same thing now. In late game with near 2k hp it doesn't deal as much single-target damage/disable to justify it's place in the inventory. I will always suggest you to make things (units/abilities/etc) lighter on the cooldowns/cost as well as on the values (hp/damage/ability stuff). This way you can play more of the game you're playing, sort of.
    2.6 Item Shop is neutral hostile.

    3. Towers and Towering
    3.1 Starfall damage is ok to everything except dem tanks, but its aoe range doesn't always include archers/wizards. Because you'd always place it in the back too. Cool concept tho.
    3.2 No idea why, but individual tier 2-3 towers seem very weak against militia of their level. Towers die too easy in the early game and militia becomes cannon fodder in the late game; not the most fluid balance.
    3.3 There isn't a reason to leave your base prior to tier 2(close pos)/3(other) just because the wizard harvests so much at the start. This tends to go on for half an hour until most of the guys are at tier 3-4 and even then it's hard to dent other's defences until you save up for tanks. Barely any events occur apart from destroying a few bases with 2 early barracks. It's exhausting to play for 1.5-2 hours 60% of the time.

    4. Can some units deal chaos damage on the field? Something to stop dragging your army after a few tanks back to your base. Or maybe an Ensnare ability (on Captains?) with proper damage/health balance. Or Grow Trees casts Entangle on up to 5-10 enemies in the area.

    5. Call to Arms (Z) and Destroy (Z) situation at the lumber outpost. You can just make Call to Arms (W) or (X) and Back to Work (C). Also, please, add hotkeys to all buttons, there's not a lot.

    6. Lumber Exporters Level 2 do not auto queue.

    Basically, it's too much of a lumber_gathered race, that dooms people who slowly fall behind. Fix that please! Make early tiers less of a shit against the next 1-2 tiers.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
  19. opiemonster

    opiemonster

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    The last base doesnt make units, this is deliberate. You will stutter for a bit when you create a lumber exporter, or you have a huge amount of peasants.

    There are certainly a fair amount of viable strategies. Actually you can go out of your way to build in a place where you get attacked by a lot of people, and you can farm them for gold. There is always a risk though, if you are being attacked by 2-3 people, they can start to mass units and potentially kill you.

    If you go for an economical build, you can quickly transition to mass barracks just after upgrading your castle, and kill a bunch of players.

    It just depends on who you get, a lot of players enjoy just making woodcutter lodges, its always going to be the most popular strategy, as long as its viable.

    As people get better at the map, metas will form, I'll definitely tweak things if 1 strategy becomes too dominant though.
     
  20. moonturtle

    moonturtle

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    Yeah I agree. That's one way to close a game out on two conditions.

    A) You've developed an economy far superior than the remaining players.

    B) Your economy isn't superior but you've surprised your neighbor with the sudden transition into barracks.

    The award for killing a couple of players, rewarded in gold, should match the risk taken by transitioning into a less safe playstyle. Now the question to ask.
    Will the successful aggressive player recover his resources lost from:
    • Spending wood on barracks instead of wood lounges.
    • Having less wood generation compared to the maximized economical build.
    • Potentially having your target leave the game before you can pillage their base.
    My general experience when I play aggressive is that if you don't manage to crush the game quickly by creating a tsunami of soldiers, the economical player always wins. You might even have to towerrush because every second puts your further behind the economical player.

    So converting any gold at tier 1 or 2 gives you 110% instead of 185%. Please correct me if I got any numbers mixed up.

    My conclusion is that I think you nerfed the converters too hard, in the early game. Along with putting the gold talent on a later tier. Too many nerfs towards the gold oriented income.

    Although I see where these changes came from. As I demonstrated in earlier videos, I could win a lot of my games by playing hyper aggressively and closing or out in less than 20 minutes. But even in those versions I don't think it was overtuned.

    It simply punished people for not actively checking your neighbors amount of barracks. While allowing a player to snowball on the gold of unaware players. Which ultimately led to you besting the safe players who didn't have enough time to match the fed aggressive player.


    EDIT>
    I made a Discord server for Lumber TD discussion. (Approved)
    Join the Lumber TD Discord Server!
    Feel free to join it. I'll be pasting the link for those interested in lobbies as well.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2019