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Hive Workshop Cup Melee Mapping Contest - Results

Discussion in 'The Arena' started by Landmine, Oct 11, 2019.

  1. 3ICE

    3ICE

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    Thank you! That blight info was top notch. I did in fact see it on the minimap. Good to know this detail.

    --

    I've never ran into this wall-in problem before on melee maps, so I assumed it was the layout.

    More open maps would help lower the chances of it occurring, at least, no? AI drops its buildings wherever it can build, IIRC; positioned at a "random point ~800 units from the start location", searching for a buildable spot at that distance along some predefined range of angles.

    So if we give it a wider arc to work with, maybe even half a circle, all buildings would fit with some spare room in between to walk through.

    Of course the three other races destroy trees naturally so their bases open up over time. Only elves need special consideration.

    --

    Not nice that it had to happen, sure. But for me it was entertaining. Good points raised all around.

    Edit: I promised to check the rest of the maps but only got around to playing (and editing) some of them: The 5 winners of course, and the top community votes (the ones with 9+ votes in the poll):
    Starfish Village, Northfall Isles, Moonspark, Rivulet, Gold Port, Logging Camp, Ruins of Azshara, and Brightwater Oasis. Plus: Northwatch Hold and Uther's Slumber.
    And of course the additional judge picks.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2019
  2. WolfFarkas

    WolfFarkas

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    I have 3 questions:

    1) Wich 2 maps where used for the finals?
    2) How was the final of the Hive cup?? (who won? UD, NE, HU, Orc??)
    3) Links of the final of the Hive cup??
     
  3. Wayshan

    Wayshan

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    1) Brightwater Oasis and Goldport
    2) Happy as UD.
    But how was it? Who knows... we might never know (lol)
    3) Yeah.. I'd like that too.

    As for the criticism towards my map: I agree that the aggro seems messy in multiple areas (middle orange camp, observatory camps) & I shall re-do these areas to be more fitting. The different corners were carefully designed so that they occupy the same amount of space and provide same amount of buildable space, but of course, I will probably take a look at it later on. I wanted to add some visibility disablers so that the area with the sea isn't favorable for attackers when compared to the sight-blocking cliff on the other corner of the map.

    For the rest of the stuff such as mines in the corners, unorthodox shapes, different style than most of the maps - my goal was to create a unique and unorthodox map. Which seems to be very provoking - and I don't necessarily mind that. I just wanted something new. The philosophy behind my map-making was to bring some new fresh design choices to the map.

    Of course, I don't think that anything that's new is a priori good. I wanted to keep it within a reasonable frame, which is also the reason why my map might be a bit rushed - I actually decided to scratch my first map (which seemed to me as too daring) that was nearing completion and decided to start over again. But I want to emphasize that it was by no means some last-minute work. I've been putting a lot of time into it. Surely not months as some have, but days for sure.

    I've already reflected some of the feedback regarding item drops and I will further look into it, hopefully with someone's help. I stand by my choices of terrain, pathing, visuals and I actually think it is by far the prettiest map in the contest. But then again - this only proves how biased and subjective we are when it comes to looks.

    In retrospective, it saddens me that my map was for a long time the only which got roasted. It saddens me that the debate was kinda harsh and that people were hurt. It saddens me that better maps did not get their rightful place in the contest and it saddens me that mine did. Which ultimately, makes me sad about even participating in this horrible thing. Cause it makes me look like an idiot... I am grateful tho for the feedback, which surely enlightened me in many ways ^^

    One can only hope that the next contest will be better organized. What amazes me is the ABSOLUTE absence of communication from organizers. We got no info about the finals, we can only guess the winners have changed since the frontpage remains the same. And some comments or notes from the judges would be great.

    I know there was no bad intention. I can understand that things went sideways, I can accept mistakes were made. But not saying a word is not an answer.
     
  4. Nightmare2077

    Nightmare2077

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    Thread next door had this info. (It was also meant for discussion, but nobody wrote in it...).
    See Hive Workshop Cup
    See VODs section for the replays
    (Actually, I have some proper replays. I wanted to post them but I forgot. I will do so later)
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2019
  5. WolfFarkas

    WolfFarkas

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    1- Dont think your map as the only case/ Issue.
    2- nah people will be just fine.
    3- nah nerver mind it,
    4- There was some contagius stress, but that tend to dissipate sooner or later I think.
    5- Nah, for a first map , is great.
    6- the problem wasnt organization, was the timming, mapping contest tend to be 30 days of mapping and 30 days of judging, it was imposible to make it work.
    the only options are: make this, or make nothing. At least new maps were created, and others improved.
    7- It was posted on the other thread. so the info was there, and is more pertinent there than here. the finals results doesnt have relation with the mapping contest results.
    8- I dont know I wanted to ask that.

    Thanks for the info

    Oh great develop of Russian Federation Players, congratulations to the winners. The Russ are amaizing, they are pros in snow winter olympic games, they have awsome sniping skills, they have a great informatics conserving very old RTS games. And now I just figure out they are pros in WC3.

    About what @Wayshan posted (the item 8)

    1) The frontpage results are going to stay as they are or they are going to change?
    2) X.D. was removed as judge and the pdf deleted, so the score is going to be made with RemoDemo only?
    3) Is RemoDemo score going to change or it will remain as it is?
    4) So oficially speaking, is posible to disclose info about wich maps won the mapping contest 1st, 2nd, 3rd , 4th place?
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2019
  6. Wayshan

    Wayshan

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    Only these were meant for you @WolfFarkas. And the questions you asked are exactly what I am curious to find out too :)

    It would be really helpful to link it in this thread, so we can watch it. How is one supposed to keep track of events if it's not linked? Heck, I wouldn't know this thread exist if it wasn't for someone tagging my name and ofc the info banner (but that popped out for me days after this was hot topic) ^^

    Cool! :D Looking forward to that, thx!
     
  7. WolfFarkas

    WolfFarkas

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    Hi there everybody. I have an idea that I wish to discuss regarding this contest:
    First I will point some facts.

    1) Contest is stalled: fact
    2) Contest has only 1 judge: fact.
    3) So far there is no judging in text format to validate the contest results and make it end: fact
    4) RemoDemo last post here was 11 october, fact.
    I give thanks to him for his effort during the review period, since it was very very short, the play tournament was great.
    And I would understand if at this point of the contest, if he, Remo, cant be judge for the site now. I mean, is no good to put preasure to another user that also has other stuff to do. Thats quite understanding. Drop judging is very common.

    But
    5) This contest needs some sort of end: fact

    More than 1 month has passed and this contest is not going anywhere, is just floating as un-finished.

    So I have a proposal to all: to the staff, to the participants, to the managers of this contest.

    I would like to drop myself as participant and become judge.
    1-That means I drop as participant, my map will quit the contest.
    2- The votes I received wont be counted.
    3- the votes I casted wont be counted

    While items 2-3 are very important. It happened in the past that poll score had to be re-calculated because of post-poll disqualification. So that can be done, and with an excel is very easy, to do the new maths.

    I know is crayzy, but @JaleVeliki said something important, a good contest need like 3-4 judges (Ideal). And one of them should be ideal an inside user from the site. And also this is my proposal to help this contest to reach a good end.

    I dont know another way to make this contest ends, if someone has another idea please post it here. I am open for ideas, anything that can help this contest to stop being stalled.

    About me becoming judge:
    - I have mapping experience (16 maps).
    - I am a Hiveworkshop user.
    - The effort I put in my map (if you saw it), I promise to put the same effort in the judging.
    - I can post/update here my progress of the review: as example I already reviewed 3 maps (to see myself if I could do it)
    - I will use the +) +) -) -) system. And follow the 50% balance, 35% terraining, 15% creativity.

    Random (and silly) example.

    Good Points:
    - Good Base shape.
    - No gaps between trees.

    Lower score
    :
    -The green creep has a unit L7 and a unit L2. Unit L7 has 1000 hp and mana burn, is to hard for a first green creep.
    - Goblin merchant area is a narrow dead end, player needs to turn back.
    - Ramp near merc. camp is bugged (violet pixel pathing P)

    I promise to be very objetive, and think well my ideas.
    Not going to reduce score with subjetive stuff as example:
    I like 3 or more ways of attack, personal taste, not going to punish a 2 ways of attack map. (thats crayzy subjetive).
    Or if a map is Lordaeron Summer and the other is ICC, not going to judge wich enviroment I "like more". I am going to judge the terraining effort. Tile-mix effort, minimap reading, rise-low tool used, doodads effort used, different areas created.

    My sugestion is lets do it: if my judging is no good, I can be veto as judge- post reading my text.
    And if by chance Remo finds time to post his judging. Have 2 judges will help to have a more objetive result.
    So there is nothing to loose.

    So what do you think???

    I would like to ask you to support my idea, if there are no better ideas. If someone has a better idea, I would like to hear it.

    Well I will use this time to continue writting the judging text if by chance, my idea of become judge is (by luck) overall approved.
    (update of progress: 4 contest map reviewed).
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2019
  8. Kerael

    Kerael

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    A noble sacrifice, but hasn't it ended when a score and a pdf came out the first time?

    Ended as a failure, because the results were recalculated and the winners have changed, but prior to the tournament.

    And now they'd change again, but why?
     
  9. Wayshan

    Wayshan

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    We have no clue whether and how it ends. Nobody recieved the icons or reputation points and more importantly, we can't be sure what the results.

    I am not opposed to @WolfFarkas idea. Even better would be to recall some of the judges from earlier contests. Also, I would love to see the rating of one pf the judges who was the judge for this contest originally but then dropped (sorry that I don't know the nickname, I am at my phone and forum browsing is difficult)
     
  10. WolfFarkas

    WolfFarkas

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    Responding

    1- Contest can not end with no writting review that validates the results. A pdf text is needed. Site rules item 4.
    upload_2019-11-14_13-15-22.png


    2- my idea is that the reputation points and badges can be granted by the validation of a pdf text.
    And so the contest can have a valid end and be moved to the contest archives.

    3- long story, but in short, 5 days to review more than 20 maps is very hard. The main problem is that there is no text that validates contest results.

    1- I posted the rule to respond Kerael, icons and reputation cant be validated with no a (more or less) valid text judging.

    (recall done, but a couple of rejections here and there).

    2- Agree but contest started with 3 judges, number was reduced to 1, we can say 2 vacants are free, a month passed and nobody is comming here to say:
    "hey guys need a judge?, can I be judge? I have this experience....", thats why I decided to volunteer.
    I mean being judge is hard and time consuming.(and I think very few persons would judge 25 maps with no money reward, and most of those persons are participants already)

    3- it will be better no not discuss that matter., all that stuff is gone. instead to look the past, is better to move foward.

    My Progress (in the time being): judged 7 maps of the contest.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
  11. Arrr

    Arrr

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    I thought it was already over.
    Imo.. just leave it, it's done.

    The tournament has already been played - and the winning maps being in the pool was the main appeal of this contest in the first place.
    No reason to necro this whole thing.
     
  12. WolfFarkas

    WolfFarkas

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    1- is not over, thats why: a) the green banner is still up, b) the thread is not closed and moved to the contest archives.
    c) staff also didnt take a decision about this contest.
    2- 3-this is not about the tournament is about the hiveworkshop site, wich has its own rules. A melee mapping contest hardly cant start if this contest , dont finish first (terraining contest 22 cant start if the 21 is on going). Hive badges and rep scores cant be handle if the results are not supported by a text explaining scores, format. Thats why I want to finish this , so the next contest can start in the future.
    4- this whole thing is stalled yes, but not necro or finished. It would be finished if would be moved to contest archives and closed for further postings.

    Update: judged 10 maps.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
  13. JaleVeliki

    JaleVeliki

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    Commendable effort.
     
  14. WolfFarkas

    WolfFarkas

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    thanks for the support, I already wrote staff (my idea of become judge), so I am crossing fingers.

    productive friday, judging boosted: I judged 15 maps already.
     
  15. Mythic

    Mythic

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    Contests conclude when results are posted. It is not on-going. Winners have been decided.
    This is simply a delay in administrative proceedings. You may post the next Melee Map Contest in Contest Submission if you so desire.

    Kindly decide to judge before the results come out next time.
     
  16. WolfFarkas

    WolfFarkas

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    edit1:

    Regarding certain private info I have and I dont wish to make public (just in case), I am going to continue with this proyect.


    (my progress, done)

    Edit2: what may happen:

    1) Staff/mods accepting / and or rejecting my idea,

    2) I will present my text to them so they can see it.

    3) In case of rejection (I didnt got to that instance, I am like in some sort of "we shall see, go ahead in the meanwhile", but is a posibility) If rejection If I can I will paste it here as a "feedback text", in previous contest users reviewed/gave feedback to maps in contests, and well I think it can be used as a learning tool at very least.

    Edit3: I explained the story to Mythic (since he wasnt participant of the contest) so he can understand the reasons of my idea, all ok with him (by pm)
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
  17. MadRoboGoblin

    MadRoboGoblin

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  18. Mr.Henci

    Mr.Henci

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    @WolfFarkas how it's going? I'm really excited to finally wrap this contest up. Any new info?
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
  19. WolfFarkas

    WolfFarkas

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    Yes: I just recently finished the last map, working on the index, I am going to re-check the whole text and present it by PM soon.
     
  20. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

    Map Reviewer

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    What are you talking about? Your map was uploaded yesterday when you also joined the site.
    thunderWaterfallsMadRoboGoblinShenanigans.png
    madrobogoblinjoin.png
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019