Hero Contest #6 - The First Invasion

[Mr_Bean]

Teams are not allowed; the entire hero must be made by a single user. However, you're able to use any resources publicly available in The HiveWorkshop database, except for spells.

Are we allowed to ask people for their opinions on the spells?
Can we ask others to test the current hero? I remember seeing that this was allowed in previous contests, but it wasn't mentioned here.

 

[Adiktuz]

You can ask for opinions on the older HCs but I'm not sure about making them test...

 

[Orcnet]

I read a book about Richard Knaak and his concept with the lore, so "if a city is under attack by the burning legion, lead by Sargeras", that means the hero can either be a night elf, dwarf, furbolg, tauren, or treant but I'll think of something

 

[defskull]

Are we allowed to ask people for their opinions on the spells?
Can we ask others to test the current hero? I remember seeing that this was allowed in previous contests, but it wasn't mentioned here.

Ahhh mentioning about this thing...

Can we like create the Spell Pack and upload it to THW Spell Resources for a review ?
And we can always fix it until the deadline, and that will become our last submission ?

 

[Adiktuz]

during the last contests, reviews for submissions are done after the contest ends... seeing that you cannot even use your own already made spells that are uploaded here, if it gets approved before the end of the contest, then it will automatically get your entry disqualified...

 

[defskull]

No that's not what I meant.
The last Spell Contest (Zephyr Challenge #9), some contestants (including me) uploaded our spells to the THW Spell Section to be judged/reviewed first before we made our last spell submission.

I mean, by doing so, we were actually getting a free review before our coding marks were truly judged, it looks like a cheat.

I disagree of this action but it seems no rule is made to ban this thing, I'll be doing that again (lol) until the rule of the contest says so (to ban that action).

 

[Adiktuz]

Yeah, it's basically a form of cheating though so far it is still allowed... anyway, all of the contestants can practically do it so maybe that's why it hasn't been banned?

 

[AdityaHegde]

i would like to join!!! my 1st contest...!!
does a map with half finished hero count as WIP???

 

[Tirlititi]

What are you two talking about?

When a resource done for a contest is submitted (in spell section or where-ever), it is marked as "Contest material" and is not reviewed/approved until the end of the contest.
Regular people can give advices and feedback over there, but they can also do it here. There is no big differences.

 

[Mr_Bean]

i would like to join!!! my 1st contest...!!
does a map with half finished hero count as WIP???

No, you have to start from scratch.

 

[Luorax]

does a map with half finished hero count as WIP???

I think it does, but it has to be made AFTER the contest started - as the rule says, you can't use anything that's been made before the contest (excluding public resources, of course, but that's not part of the actual code)

 

[Pharaoh_]

Are we allowed to ask people for their opinions on the spells?
Can we ask others to test the current hero? I remember seeing that this was allowed in previous contests, but it wasn't mentioned here.

Asking others for their opinion or asking them to beta-test your entry is not considered teamwork.

No that's not what I meant.
The last Spell Contest (Zephyr Challenge #9), some contestants (including me) uploaded our spells to the THW Spell Section to be judged/reviewed first before we made our last spell submission.

I mean, by doing so, we were actually getting a free review before our coding marks were truly judged, it looks like a cheat.

I disagree of this action but it seems no rule is made to ban this thing, I'll be doing that again (lol) until the rule of the contest says so (to ban that action).

It's weird that I didn't catch it earlier then. No, this is not allowed, moderators should not be judging a contest's entry of which the results are not delivered yet. If this is intentional, it gets an unofficial teamwork and by what you say, it will be. ;p

 

[Shocroach]

Uhh... What kind of units are we expecting default units or custom strong units..

 

[Pharaoh_]

I am not really sure of what you're asking. You can create a custom unit out of a default one or simply edit a default one to create the hero. What matters are the criteria listed and the rules to be complied with, the rest is up to you.

 

[mckill2009]

I already have my final submission!...

Final Entry

F***, I have trouble getting it out of my head, I guess Ima delay it for a month and just put the idea(WIP) of it when I'm bored ...
My hero would be related to elves!

 

[Luorax]

I already have my final submission!...

Final Entry

F***, I have trouble getting it out of my head, I guess Ima delay it for a month and just put the idea(WIP) of it when I'm bored ...

My idea has just been rejected, so it'll have to wait too. Too bad, I'm not going to be rich of time for another week. Dem exams too strong (F.u. calculus)

 

[AdityaHegde]

ok thank you...i didnt start work on it befre the contest was announced...
can i use systems or parts of it which were not published but written before?? i mean does it count as a violation (cos it is written by me)...

 

[Luorax]

You are allowed to use any system, as long as it does enhance the functionality of the spell and it is bug free. For questions regarding this subject, feel free to ask within this thread whether the said system is useable.

So I'm pretty sure you can.

---

I also have a question regarding this:
Can we use generic goodies, like Alloc, SpellEffectEvent, TimerUtils, T32, Table, and such? A lot of people use them and it's good using them in general. Not that I couldn't live without them, but it'd be a waste to hardcode everything when you have libraries like these.

 

[Pharaoh_]

Yes, you can use the said systems.

 

[mckill2009]

approved libraries is a MUST to use when coding in jass coz they proven to be very useful, but extensive use of it is not good imo, e.g. if you make one spell and uses at least 6 required libraries, it's an overkill...

 

[Luorax]

approved libraries is a MUST to use when coding in jass coz they proven to be very useful, but extensive use of it is not good imo, e.g. if you make one spell and uses at least 6 required libraries, it's an overkill...

No, it's not, if the spell is complex enough. It's always good to use external systems, when needed. Obviously, for a fireball spell it'd surely be an overkill to use 6 external libraries (given you're making it to share it with the community - if you have your libraries for your own map and it's a private spell, you should use as many of your installed systems as you can).

That's my view though - reaching the 6 snippet example you mentioned is not even hard though (TimerUtils/T32, GroupUtils, Alloc, SpellEffectEvent, that's already 4)

 

[mckill2009]

You cant use SpellEffectevent without using RegisterPlayerUnitEvent, so it would be 5 ...and yeah I mean simple ones...
I dont need Alloc as I trust the built in allocator...

 

[Luorax]

Well, you don't "directly" need RPE, but yea, you're right

Not that I didn't trust them, but sometimes I need custom indexing methods, plus I'm accustomed to using array structs. Using normal ones is fine, as long as you're not using crap like "onDestroy", "onCreate", struct inheritance and such.

But let's not discuss about it here in my opinion (you can always leave a VM on my profile if you want)

 

[Kingz]

The last Spell Contest (Zephyr Challenge #9), some contestants (including me) uploaded our spells to the THW Spell Section to be judged/reviewed first before we made our last spell submission.

I mean, by doing so, we were actually getting a free review before our coding marks were truly judged, it looks like a cheat.

I disagree of this action but it seems no rule is made to ban this thing, I'll be doing that again (lol) until the rule of the contest says so (to ban that action).

Now that you mention this... i will contact magtheridon and talk to him about this. It does seem like cheating imo.

Anyhow on the topic, the main aspect of the hero contest is synergy and use of hero skills. Hero background and theme also are a great way to keep a high score.
Looking at the example of Blademaster, you wouldn't expect him to cast a fireball or use any magic at all because it would be outside his character.

Individually skills don't have to have that "wow" factor, but making the whole spell kit good as in each skill interlocking with another in a interesting way.

Hope you guys focus more on the hero as a whole and less on the idea of individual skills. I did that mistake when i was last time in the hero contest and it backfired.

Edit:

Reading the "First Invasion" article it seems every hero will have to be an ally of the night elves or night elves.

 

[-Kobas-]

I spend like 2 hours picking, editing and enchanting hero model
And like 2 more hours on abilities :v

So far first ability works flawlessly with some raw code in background.

Terrain is also almost done, concept will have small story in background and look like really small RPG

 

[Adiktuz]

yeah, some people end up building awesome individual skills and forget the synergy part and sometimes on the balance part too... that might get you a full score in the aesthetics but definitely a very low score on synergy...

I have a suggestion, why don't we have a general terrain for this? Since the concept is the first invasion I just thought it might be cool to have one general terrain... It might add some equalization to the feel of playing each hero for whoever will be judging... though of course it might be a bit hard now as most of the participants have already started on their creations...

 

[defskull]

I agree to have one general terrain for us all to share it, and a small trigger to handle waves of waves of Burning Legion's armies.

And the only thing we need to do is to use that map (terrain) along with our imported spells.

though of course it might be a bit hard now as most of the participants have already started on their creations...

As I said, spells can be exported/imported, therefore it should be no problem.

But as for Kobas, I don't know... he said he's making a terrain + some RPG-concept...

Maybe we can use his terrain ? Lol.

 

[Adiktuz]

adding a wave of wave of the legion, nice idea...

the only thing is that you would need to wait for the terrain, unless -Kobas- and Pharoah_ will agree to use the map being made by -Kobas-

and of course if most of you will agree... but I think it can also lessen your workload as you don't need to create the terrain yourself...

 

[InfernalTater]

If my ultimate ability was a hero morph, would I be allowed to create three new abilities to replace the old abilities with during morph form, granted that the three new abilities are similar to the three normal abilities, and are again replaced by the normal abilities when exiting the morphed form?

I know we're supposed to only have four abilities, but with the idea I have, the normal form's abilities wouldn't make any sense being used in the morphed form.

 

[defskull]

that the three new abilities are similar to the three normal abilities

If the spells are "similar" to the old spell, then it should be acceptable.
However, if those spells are totally new (requires new trigger handle), then it has become 7 abilities (including ultimate + 6 base abilities).

 

[Misha]

ahem.. WTF are you babbling about? going totally off topic in my opinion, and no-one yet has commented on my WIP

EDIT: ok.. so it isn't off topic, but still...

 

[HammerFist132]

adding a wave of wave of the legion, nice idea...

the only thing is that you would need to wait for the terrain, unless -Kobas- and Pharoah_ will agree to use the map being made by -Kobas-

and of course if most of you will agree... but I think it can also lessen your workload as you don't need to create the terrain yourself...

I was also thinking about making some kind of defense with incoming chaos kinda units .

@Misha
Ur spells are interesting, maybe not to complicate but and like this they are interesting, BUT third spells passive in I think total miss, hero should defend end enduriance aura is somehow wrong for me, while devaluation aura should be nice.

 

[-Kobas-]

I have nothing against it, I will upload map in few days, so you can use terrain if you want.

 

[Adiktuz]

That's cool... It would be good if everyone will make the heroes on the base terrain...

PS: nice HC award icon, I only noticed just now that it has a message included...

 

[Misha]

@Misha
Ur spells are interesting, maybe not to complicate but and like this they are interesting, BUT third spells passive in I think total miss, hero should defend, and endurance aura is somehow wrong for me, while devaluation aura should be nice.

i see nothing wrong with it, ancients are pretty much nature's endurance/life/growth essence thingie they can't really de-anything

i dunno what to do with that howl thingie.. not sure i set the chances right in the trigger

 

[Orcnet]

yes we do need a base terrain but if were all into making our own terrain then so be it

@Misha
I am also thinking about treants but hmm I'll revamp my hero then XD

 

[WerePhoenix]

I think I'll go with the dragonflights.
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...blue-49689/?prev=search=wardragon&d=list&r=20 - model (it's green and not blue,I don't know why)

 

[gorillabull]

where do we submit the spell and wip image

 

[Adiktuz]

you attach it to your post in this thread...

 

[eubz]

This is cool. I might join then.

 

[Adiktuz]

ooohhh... this might just really be the battle of the HC veterans...

 

[defskull]

Consider yourself as HC Veteran too, Adiktuz ;p

 

[Adiktuz]

never joined... I believe... judged twice though...

so far I only joined one spell contest, the joke-themed one where I made that ridiculously ridicule spell Super frost joke... hahahaha...

the only other contest was a terrain contest...

 

[Luorax]

So here's the texture I'm going to use: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/skins-552/el-hielo-62070/?prev=search=frozen&d=icon&r=200

I'll extract the model file and make the cast effect icy as well. I already have 3 spells figured out in my mind, all I need is an ultimate.

For those who're familiar with my project: there will be a hero based on that texture, and even one of the spells' idea came from that concept.

I hope this is enough as a WIP as I think I'll just post the map once everything is finished - I can do all the coding in 1-2 days, even though I made all the spells pretty complex. No ETA though, exams are more important - we have almost a month left, so I think I've got time.

 

[Adiktuz]

I believe that is what we call planning stage...

 

[Luorax]

Yea, it is Didn't have time to work on it last week, plus I didn't have a proper WE either (my JASSHelper didn't work on that crap, for some reason)

 

[Meepo-]

I'm in This is my first contest, nothing wrong with participate thought >.<

 

[Misha]

i think i should drop out... creating an ability that lets a hero "live" on timer after death seems to be beyond my triggering knowledge.. and helping me is not allowed =_=

 

[-Kobas-]

i think i should drop out... creating an ability that lets a hero "live" on timer after death seems to be beyond my triggering knowledge.. and helping me is not allowed =_=

Instantly re-spawn hero and kill him after timer expire

This may show unneeded messages.

Other way is to detect damage dealt to hero that would kill him, then just make him invulnerable or add some ability like +1000000 hp to him and keep him alive again until timer expires

 

[Luorax]

Other way is to detect damage dealt to hero that would kill him, then just make him invulnerable or add some ability like +1000000 hp to him and keep him alive again until timer expires

That's the way damage detection systems work. If I'm not mistaken, it's possible to damage an invulnerable unit somehow, so using a huge HP boost ability then removing it "immediately" (using a timer with 0. seconds timeout) would be the way to go.