[AoS] Invasion in Duskwood

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Nessara's Q could be an arrow with a Wire, she either pull on it hard to bring someone to her or just use it to jump ahead to the target.

Because having an instant-pull is OVERLY OP. In the history of good games, Pudge has to pull, Blitz has to pull. The DotA hero that Swaps actually gets into danger in order to swap, same for Urgot.

It is really easy to turn a fight 5v1 and then making it a 5v4 teamfight. It needs to be skillshot (maybe not for the melee aspect of it, but for the ranged, it's required.)
 
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Well, you have a point there. I'll see later what I can do about that spell.

EDIT: okay, I have a quite cool idea that'll give her some utility, extra damage and increase her skill-cap a little bit. That's one more missile model and some extra coding; but it's fine.
 
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The hero model was made by Judash137 and all the icons (including the hero icon) by Fjury. Champara_Bros is responsible for all the effects. (the 0.8 version contains all the effects and the hero, but not with the tweaked tooltips and the icons :) So he was disabled. The current one also contains one extra disabled hero, that's waiting for 5 icons and an effect model - to give you an idea what it can be, it's based on the Goblin Alchemist model)
 
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That's why it was C - it was also easier to reach it. Any ideas then? Because I personally find that Home Portal way better with the Esc multiboard switch (and it also was a suggested change) and we don't have any more slots to add spells.

How about showing the StatBoard while the shop is selected and the normal board while it isn't? I always bind my hero to Ctrl + 1 and the shop to Ctrl + 2, it's really easy to switch between them like that.
 
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Have never canceled spells by ESC but by right-click. Binding it to the selected unit is an idea. Although, you cannot automatically set control groups via trigger, I guess people would quickly grasp it due to the need. Additionally, how about changing the board on double-ESC?
 
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I also cancel things by right-clicking to be honest :) Sometimes I miss the smartcast function from WC3 to be honest...

Well, double-Esc is another idea, that might work for sure, however, I think it's not better than binding it to unit selections. It may look better for first since you don't have to from those control groups, but in the long run they're way faster. Because everything is bound to the QWER area, reaching the 0-1-2 keys is really simple, thus you don't have to move your fingers that far from them, and also, that might help some new players figure out how useful those control groups can be as they grant fast hero selection that can save lifes when you have to react quickly.

I'll try to figure out something that's better than all these solutions, but I can't promise anything.

I'll be quite inactive in the next 2 weeks (GCSE), but I've told Fjury what to draw and the next hero's codes are all done (even in your 0.81 version), so 0.82 may be released in 2-3 weeks.
 
Oooh this is a very heavily coded map I can tell :p
I simply adore the shop system AND the gems, they're just a neat and fast addition ;P
I actually find everything in the map well polished and advanced, including the minion leveling system, the spells, etc.
However, there were a few minor things I wanted to point out.

First, how about adding a "Starter items" button to the shop, which then gives you more options like "Support" "Tank" "Mage" "Jungler", etc. and they would contain all of the useful items you would need to buy in the beginning.
Next, the life tower model seems rather... unfitting? It's rotating and looks a bit too modern.
Also the hero icons for minions in the minimap can be a bit confusing and it makes them stand out too much.

Cool project :)
 
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First of all, thanks, I'm glad that our map moderator finds it cool :)

Secondly, the lack of hero icons - that's an unfortunate price we had to pay for the extra Resistance stat for minions. It might be neglible on minions and creeps (it's still useful tho, without it casters would be dealing chaos damage to them, which is bad), but on the epic jungle creep it's a must have thing.

The Alliance tower: I tried to base it on a model that's not overused (like the dalaran turrets and the ancient protector). It's quite modernish, especially the rocks its built from, but still not a high-tech building. Kinda like a fancy goblin building. (and they have a goblin; just wait until the next version and you'll see what I mean)

I could add a "Recommended items" button. It wouldn't be that hard work for sure, but I'd end up filling up the "jungler", "solo lane", "caster", "ad carry" pages with a pair of boots and pots, simply becaue boots are OP :)
But I think I'll add some sort of description into the category tooltips, saying what each category contains (like "Weapons" for heroes based on attacks, "Defensive" items for tanks and supports, "Magical" items for casters and offensive supports). Everyone can read what his hero's spells do, the values, ratios are on the top of the description, you can try out different build and experiment how they work out for you.
It's somehow more satisfying when you master a hero on your own IMO :)
 
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Very well, I'm done with the exams, and I've added quite a few things to the map. I've also fixed a few bugs (one of them was crucial), and the new version might come out in the following days (right now I'm waiting for item effects and item buff tooltips)

I don't really want to tell much about the new hero, as the new version is coming soon, all I can say is: you'll love my new recipe!
 
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I do not like the style. It's very DotAish. That starts with the minimap where you do not recognize paths, a nearly invisible river and the general lack of accents in the terrain. The combat area on lanes is rather small. It's not really an active fight for the minions as there are quite some instant ranged abilities that also easily tear up a hero foe. The balance gets heavily out of hand when one side is leading. The visualization and audibility of some spells is just bad. Tidalus's Whirlpool for example has an exaggerated area effect through the big effects and opaqueness. On the other hand, there is no hit effect that would reveal who it affects nor is there a loop sound or anything fitting. The same applies to the ultimate, no activation sound at all and just getting bigger/blue does not clarify properly that it would be his own spell. The first is too opaque. The passive gets into conflict with the already attached orbititting effects. On the second, the creation and destruction of the shield looks shitty. The deactivation button of the ultimate has the same icon as the activation.

Some units are really bad clickable like the voidwalkers. Give shadows to the units. The basic movement speeds are rather low considering the map size.
 

Frotty

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So did you change any things WaterKnight addressed? I have to agree to all his statements and yet can't read anything from the changelog.
The balance is totally off, some heros have 2 instant hit spells where you just need to lvl some spellpower or attributes to get strong. Melee Heros are almost always weaker and get harassed easily, making them get even less gold.
Tho I like the shop system, it lacks comfort. If you can't buy while out of the city it shouldn't open or the bought item should just be at the base.
There is no Hint whatsoever about the gems, most noobs don't even find the shop and no one did find the gems without telling them.
There are so many noobtraps like this, which make playing the map as newcomer hard and boring. The enemies are surprisingly stronger, if they kill you about two times you don't even have a chance.
The jungle is pretty bad for early jungling in order to avoid getting killed. The map is pretty big, ganking takes too long and is hardly possible.

A very big pain in the ass is the targeting - the heros (and units?) don't have a selection circle and therefore you have to pretty precisely hit the model (was this fixed?). This is especially annoying if you got a spell that is Unit and Point target - if you hit the unit it is homing(always hits) - if you miss and cast on point it's a straight missile.

If I remember correctly the towers have a homing projectile and do a lot of dmg - even the first one. Again this is very punishing for trying to chase or init/gank into a tower if no minions are near by.

Because the map so huge and the hero is pretty slow the only boot choice are the ones you can teleport with, as long as your towers still stand. Limits it quite a bit.

I will have to test 0.82 some time, but as far as I see it not much has been changed?!
 
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I'm not sure if I should answer this reply, but since I'm the leader, I just can't ignore it no matter how much I'd like to... so here it is:

-The map is definitely quite big, and I agree that the base movement speed of the heroes was a little small. If you had taken a look at the changelog, you'd have noticed this:

Increased the base movement speed of all heroes by 30

I was thinking of doing it, and WaterKnight's post made me actually add to the current changelog.

-Towers; just because my map doesn't follow the silly "DotA standards", it doesn't immeditaly means that it's bad. I always hated the way DotA worked, where towers were a huge chunk of rock, whose only purpose was that you could stand next to them and take photos all day long, because they were so weak that everyone just ignored them and ran past them. I made them fairly strong so that they could do what they're supposed to do: protect the heroes. It's still very possible to kill an enemy even 1v1, I've played a few games with my friend and none of us had problems with the tower.

-Melee heroes are almost always limited by their range, but most of them has got some sort of a gap closer ability and have better base stats in general. In fact, my full-geared friend could 1v2 our two ranged heroes with ease.

-Gems. Let me quote something for you:

Gems serve as battle-boosts for you hero. Every hero on both sides is given a bracelet or a pair of gloves (which one he or she has choosen) that he can put these gems into. These items contain 5-5 slots for each four type of gems: rubies, emeralds, sapphires and ametyts. To socket this item [lore-wise, these items are invisible in the game], you have to enter the shop menu, select one of these categories and click on your gem. The counter in the bottom left corner shows how many free slots you have left.|n|nSocketing is not bound to the spawning pool and your hero does not have to be alive to socket the item.

It's from the Information (quests) section. It's not my fault if the user is blind (khm), and cannot notice the huge "Information" text nor the text that tells him to either press F9 or open the Information menu.

-Selection circles. Units do have circles, only heroes have them hidden. Hiding their health bar was only possible by hiding the circles as well; quite unfortunate, but I couldn't come up with a better solution. If you have one for me, then I'm all ears.

-Why should the player not be allowed to browse the shop while away/dead? Just because you can't buy those items, you should be able to browse it, it may contain some important information, such as exact item costs, for example.

-And lastly, balance. I've said it many times in the thread already: it's an alpha version, I haven't done any balance works yet. I'll start doing them once all the items and heroes are finished; I'll have their code, effects, icons finished and I can start working on the numbers. It's going to be a long procedure and our main effect maker will soon start his studies at the uni, thus his time will be very limited, so I'd like to finish as many heroes before that happens (1-2 weeks) as possible. I'm aware of the issues, that's why it's just an Alpha. It's not really playable because of the balance issues, it's basically mechanism, item and hero demonstration.

EDIT: P.s. removed.
 
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-Towers; just because my map doesn't follow the silly "DotA standards", it doesn't immeditaly means that it's bad. I always hated the way DotA worked, where towers were a huge chunk of rock, whose only purpose was that you could stand next to them and take photos all day long, because they were so weak that everyone just ignored them and ran past them. I made them fairly strong so that they could do what they're supposed to do: protect the heroes. It's still very possible to kill an enemy even 1v1, I've played a few games with my friend and none of us had problems with the tower.

Nobody said it should obey DotA standards. Would state other major tasks of a tower like balancing out minions, delaying them and granting sight. Well, should somehow have medium strength. Being completely protected under it does not make sense either. Think of some way to display its area range.

@Gems: Do they have to be in the shop? When I have already set them, I think I would not want to have them displayed there anymore because of distraction. Just give them a pick menu that is immediately shown after having chosen the hero that you can skip without spending all points to distribute them later.

-Selection circles. Units do have circles, only heroes have them hidden. Hiding their health bar was only possible by hiding the circles as well; quite unfortunate, but I couldn't come up with a better solution. If you have one for me, then I'm all ears.

You have removed them by setting selection scale to 0? That would be glitchy. I mean quite a few times was your custom bar overlapped by some wild standard one that was either from the hero or some dummy.

-Why should the player not be allowed to browse the shop while away/dead? Just because you can't buy those items, you should be able to browse it, it may contain some important information, such as exact item costs, for example.

Positive. But a distinct indicator is required to tell the player whether he/she can buy atm like an announcement when it's not possible while having selected the shop.

-And lastly, balance. I've said it many times in the thread already: it's an alpha version, I haven't done any balance works yet. I'll start doing them once all the items and heroes are finished; I'll have their code, effects, icons finished and I can start working on the numbers. It's going to be a long procedure and our main effect maker will soon start his studies at the uni, thus his time will be very limited, so I'd like to finish as many heroes before that happens (1-2 weeks) as possible. I'm aware of the issues, that's why it's just an Alpha. It's not really playable because of the balance issues, it's basically mechanism, item and hero demonstration.

The numbers okay. I have a problem with instant ranged or long-ranged inevitable abilities, especially when they deal a heavy chunk of damage or have a bursty influence.
 
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Hmm, a polite, constructive reply, I like, thanks for that.

@Towers: they may be a little strong right now, but only at the first few levels. Later on, as the game progresses and the hero gets stronger and stronger, they fall behind, especially because their maximum damage is capped. I'll weaken them though and increase the damage cap (plus they have a percentage armor penetration), I just don't want to do any silly changes before I get the opportunity to do a few tests with friends on TheHelper.net.
As for the range, how about adding a green/red selection circle when you are in range of a friendly/allied turret? Would indicate perfectly the ranges, you'd know when you're in safe and when you're in the danger zone. It'd be displayed when you're, let's say, 100 units far from one.

@Gems: That's why I've added the counter, so that you'll know how many empty slots you have. I don't think it's good if you're forced to spend them immediately; you may never know who you're going to face or what is it going to build, and since they're not bound to game time or position on the map, you can always spend them according to the situation. They're mostly early-game boosts to give some variety to the game, so it's really important that you can pick the fitting gems.

@Shop: I think I'll use the same solution I've used in Doombot's spells, Sirion's Dawnbreak Throw and Snodhar's Stalk; if you are not in shop range, the "Required: Out of range" will pop up and the spells become disabled. That way you can read the tooltips, although you can't click them.
(the error message says that it's bound to the spawning pool though)

When it comes to balancing I'll go through all the spells and items; I know that certain spells deal more or less damage than they should (mana cost and CD wise), for example, I've nerfed Shagutt's W this patch because it was horribly overpowered (even though I could perfectly counter it with Scneer's Dispatch). I'll try to do my best I promise, but I haven't had the time recently, because of Champara_Bros' limited time and my GCSE exams (and the oral exams plus the english certificate exams are still yet to come)
 
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@Gems: That's why I've added the counter, so that you'll know how many empty slots you have. I don't think it's good if you're forced to spend them immediately; you may never know who you're going to face or what is it going to build, and since they're not bound to game time or position on the map, you can always spend them according to the situation. They're mostly early-game boosts to give some variety to the game, so it's really important that you can pick the fitting gems.

Experienced players would know that. Newbs would be better if they just picked anything and this way, they also have some initial bonus. That's why I said to show it but make it skippable. Well, I actually think its minor and would not take the time to do that ingame or only during death phase.

@Shop: I think I'll use the same solution I've used in Doombot's spells, Sirion's Dawnbreak Throw and Snodhar's Stalk; if you are not in shop range, the "Required: Out of range" will pop up and the spells become disabled. That way you can read the tooltips, although you can't click them.
(the error message says that it's bound to the spawning pool though)

That's okay as long as it reacts immediately unlike the standard method in wc3.
 
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That's okay as long as it reacts immediately unlike the standard method in wc3.

It does. The maximum shop range is set to 750 units from the centre of the spawning pool (there's a narrow area around the pool where you can still buy items considering the pools are relatively small), and whenever you leave it, the icons immediately turn unavailable. So yea, it reacts immediately. However, there's a new problem that this generated; certain item abilities have lost their last lines. It has nothing to do with tooltip size as removing the last line caused the one above to be gone - weird. It doesn't matter though, I think I'll just add a random dummy line to these tooltips to overcome this problem.

The new hero is almost done, there's like 3 models missing, plus the AoE tower circle. I've got a few item concepts as well, although they won't come in this version; I'll try to release 0.83 with the new hero before the certificate & GCSE exams as I'll be quite inactive for a few weeks.
 
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I've taken two screenshots, this is what the range indicators are going to look like:



There are a few really weird bugs though, that I don't have an idea what are caused by (it's going to be a complete non-sense again like I had in the pre-0.82 version, I can feel it), but I'll get on the case, I promise.
 
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Well, it's a little bit more than a selection circle; it's a custom model, but yea, it's based on the selection circle, and it's white. But it also has an outer part, that pretty much covers the area by red/green.

One question: should it be green for the alliance and red for the fel forces, or should it be green for allied and red for enemy units? Currently it's based on whether the target is an ally or enemy, but now that I think of it, basing it on the fraction would look better.
 
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Great. I've just figured out that the weird disappearance of last tooltip lines has nothing to do with the map, but the game itself. It appears that in wide-screen mode the last line of certain tooltips is just not shown. Weird. Any ideas what should I do? Adding an extra line with some random text ("Dummy Line Here") solved it, but it's obviously not that great idea for those who're using regular montiors with 4:3 aspect ratio.
 
Great. I've just figured out that the weird disappearance of last tooltip lines has nothing to do with the map, but the game itself. It appears that in wide-screen mode the last line of certain tooltips is just not shown. Weird. Any ideas what should I do? Adding an extra line with some random text ("Dummy Line Here") solved it, but it's obviously not that great idea for those who're using regular montiors with 4:3 aspect ratio.
Cut down the whole texts to a minimum :grin:. Since I have no experience at all in coding/mapping, that's all I can think of.
 
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I'm not quite sure if size has anything to do with this issue. I've seen some 10-line tooltips bugging and 20-line ones being displayed properly. That's why I find it strange.

Although I'd never ever touch those awesome tooltips (that would disrespect Koronis' hard work). I think my last resort is going to be a single underline in a new row wherever necessary. That would bypass the problem and yet wouldn't be that ugly to stare at for regular monitor users. Adding some colour would make it blend with the background even more.
 
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Yes, that's what I was willing do to, although Fjury informed me that it works properly for him, and he uses the same aspect ratio (16:10) as me. It also works if I'm not using 1440x900, so I'm assuming it has nothing to do with the map, therefore I've reverted all the changes I've made and will leave it as it is now.

WarCraft 3 is so weird sometimes.

Additionally, I'm almost done with the patch, but Champara_Bros is busy nowadays (exams too), and I'm 2 effects short. The code is ready, so basically as soon as I get them, the new version will be out.
 
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To be honest, no, I don't play it, as just like me, all my friends are short on time nowadays, we all have serious exams that are way more important than a video game or a silly project. So I just can't afford to play it, and I don't have host bots.

Also, it's still very inbalanced, there are like ~2 heroes I'd like to change a little bit, plus the numbers (mana costs, cooldowns, damages, ratios, etc). After the 24th hero's release I'll start working on the balance and doing those hero changes I mentioned. I'll be done with the exams in 1,5 weeks, so after that I'll PM my friend on TH.net and we shall see what we can do about that. It's gonna be a long procedure, I can tell it already.
 
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To post something and keep the momentum going (as the thread is quite dead - no progress is really made; screw these exams) I think I'll show you what boredom can cause:



That's pretty much it for now. As an additional comment, I must let you know that I'll have to look for a new "Effect Master" (a.k.a. modeller). Champara_Bros is gone propably for good and J is banned as well (but not without a reason), so I'm definitely in the need of a new member.
 
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No, that's ONE hero from the loading screen :) He's going to look like this on the loading screen. More wallpapers will be made soon.

Oh, and Champara_Bros is back for a few weeks, the latest hero is already done :) So that's great, 0.83 will be definitely released next week.
 
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That wallpaper is just a part of the entire loading screen. I took some time and made more water and a backround. :>

Me and Luorax was talking about to give wallpapers to almost (this is because some of the characters are facing the wrong way or too bad positioned to become a wallpaper) all the characters that will be featured on the loading screen.

Here is some more eye candy :>
 
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The loading screen is going to be similar to the DotA, except from that the enviroment should be more visible.

I've been sketching up how it should look in a large picture, then I take each character from the loading screen sketch and draw them one by one in another file. I was bored enough to make a wallpaper out of the file with the tide lord and I also got nice critique for it and a request from Luorax to continue doing these, so I'll put in some extra time for each character to make some wallpapers for them :>

Thanks. :>
 
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Update:

I originally wanted this to be a quick update, but heck, if you look at the changelog, you'll immediately notice that I've done quite a few things. I'll propably start reworking a few spells that need to be reworked, and I'll also start revisiting our items (stats/costs)

Thanks for your patience and have fun testing the latest alpha version!
 
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Thanks, I'm glad you like it :)

The original concept was much less interesting, less utility and complexity, but his kit was changed like ~10 times in his development stage (you could ask Koronis about that...) and this is the result. I'm rather satisfied with him, in overall he's a quite funny anti-cc AP carry with a cool global passive element.
 
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Had a cAllocator error yesterday, something about not enough memory after it lagged for 2-3 seconds. Was in late game. Also, one player claimed his items were not in the character inventory, only displayed in the shop inventory.

Further requests/problems: Display revive time. Make shopping available when dead and do not change the selection upon revival when the player has already other selections such as the shopping menu because it kicks you out then, which is annoying. In shop menu, give the Tier I-IV buttons of different classes different icons in order to increase navigation. The tower range display was not good, the circle is unsharp and flickers on the terrain because of same render height. In mid, there is only a very small location between slope and tower. The slope heavily cuts off sight and it is somehow shitty that you immediately stand within tower range.
 
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