[AoS] Invasion in Duskwood

[Luorax]

Okay, a small progress update:

• 14 New items have been succesfully implemented. Two of them needs new icons, and their descriptions are yet to come, but it shouldn't take long to add them too.
• Two set of icons have been made
• Super minions have been made, they spawn periodically, tower lines work properly.
• Dozens of bug fixes - I'm constantly revisiting the code and trying to improve things wherever possible, which may lead to bugs.
• All the 100 spells (actually it's 105 - but tssh, I'll keep its reason in secret) are finished. A few test must be carried out so that I can make sure everything works as intended, plus we still need 15 spell icons and a couple of effect models (like ~4 effects) for them.
• Champara Bros joined us, as a special effect creator.

A few sets Fjury has made so far:


Map size is at 6,2 Mbytes (uncompressed)/4,8 Mbytes (compressed) at the moment.

Well, that is for now. I think 1 or 2 more weeks, and all these heroes might be 100% done - after that, 5 more heroes and a few more items (took me like 3 hours to make those 14 items - started it at 4.00 p.m and it's 7.00 p.m here. I even had dinner and talked to a few of my friends in that time) and the beta is out!

 

[Jazztastic]

After looking through this thread (two pages of it, to be precise), I had a few questions

-Does the healthbar show enemies mana bars as well?
-Are there skill dodges/skill target spells?
-Is last hitting and denying implemented?
-Have you actually playtested the map with a full group of people?

The manabar one in particular bugs me. There's a reason the manabar tool is considered an unfair hack in wc3.

But overall this looks very nice. Look forward to trying the beta.

 

[Luorax]

-Does the healthbar show enemies mana bars as well?

The bars are visible for everyone. Last Alliance members have those yellow, while Invading Fel Forces members have the red bars, on everyone's monitor. Health and Mana/Radiance/Energy/Heat/Bones/<Insert other resource types here> can be seen by anyone, who has vision over that unit.

-Are there skill dodges/skill target spells?

Yes, there are many skillshots already. It's possible to dodge certain missiles. Furthermore, Sirion, who has been presentated on a page, has the ability to reflect spell missiles, if they come from the front. Nessara has a missile that knocks back the target - Sirion can reflect it back to Nessara, and knock her back.
What's more, spell blocking has been implemented as well. It firstly appeared in LoL (Sivir/Banshee's Veil), and I found it a funny thing, so I made it too. You can block single targeted and AoE spells as well - in that case, you won't get any of its negative effects. You won't get stunned/slowed/crowd controlled, you won't get the damage nor its debuffs.

-Is last hitting and denying implemented?

You can last hit minions, however, you can't deny yours. I really hated that mechanism in general, and found the whole concept stupid. Plus, it's strange that you can kill your own buddies. The whole thing started with a WarCraft 3 "bug" that I don't intend to leave unfixed (just like creep stacking).

-Have you actually playtested the map with a full group of people?

Unfortunately, I haven't yet. Koronis, our lore writer and idea generator is very busy nowadays (attending to a university is quite exhausting sometimes and time-consuming). I also wanted to test it with one of my other friends, but his PC/WarCraft 3 copy was bugged and his PC always rebooted after playing a complex WC3 map. The basics (hero testing, first blooding, kill texts/sounds, etc.) have been proven to work flawlessly. Balancing is actually a hard and long process, I don't want to waste my time on it yet - I'll make all the heroes and items, and will worry about balance when they're all done.
If this question's purpose was to ask whether it's laggy or not, then well, there were lags in the begging for sure. But I went through the map and rewrote many things and made almost everything run on a very low cost. Useless events are not registered, periodic things will stop/won't even start without a purpose, and so forth. I have 65 FPS on the map constantly, which is the highest number I've ever gotten on a WarCraft 3 map.

 

[Laiev]

>>You can last hit, however, you can't deny. I really hated that mechanism in general, and found the whole concept stupid. Plus, it's strange that you can kill your own buddies. The whole thing started with a WarCraft 3 "bug" that I don't intend to leave unfixed.

I love you Luorax is the only thing that I have to say.

Also, the maximum fps that Warcraft reach/allow is 65.

 

[Jazztastic]

Lol denying is an integral part of lane control because it allows good players to stop bad players from getting creep money. Just like last hitting, it gives a leg-up to people who can do it. I don't quite understand why you'd love him for making the map easier to noobs and more shallow to pros.

Maybe people prefer a more streamlined experience when it comes to AoS maps. But I personally prefer more advanced lane control.

 

[Luorax]

I really don't want to start arguing over this again, I've had enough problems with this deny thing on another forum, with a stupid honfag who had tunnelvision and couldn't understand that he wa not welcomed in our LoL thread even after like 15 people told him to take a hike.

I've asked many of my friends about this deny-removal, almost almost all of them agreed with me. You can be offensive instead and focus on only last hitting and zoning - sitting in one place and farming is hella boring, something I always hated from the very beginning. The spells don't take years to refresh and a level 1 spell will not cost 200 mana, so you can use them many ways, you can be offensive, you can farm with them, etc. Being agressive will pay back, and unlike farming, it's exciting at the same time.

 

[WaterKnight]

A few sets Fjury has made so far:

Well, ... mediocre to bad. Monochromy should be avoided. This makes it seem like the hero possesses only one element (is one-dimensional) and it is confusable, especially since the pictures are not that expressive and therefore partly interchangeable. Even more than the spells, the item icons are unrecognizable in either shape or effect. From the pictures, the heroes do not look like such at all. Some glow or unique contrast pls. The bars are too big in comparison but still thin. The heroes are so small.

What's more, spell blocking has been implemented as well. It firstly appeared in LoL (Sivir/Banshee's Veil), and I found it a funny thing, so I made it too. You can block single targeted and AoE spells as well - in that case, you won't get any of its negative effects. You won't get stunned/slowed/crowd controlled, you won't get the damage nor its debuffs.

LoL was not first but maybe you mean of the 4 famous moba games. Well, when you block anything, this seems kind of nonselective. So I hope it is at least not as passive as Banshee's Veil.

You can last hit minions, however, you can't deny yours. I really hated that mechanism in general, and found the whole concept stupid. Plus, it's strange that you can kill your own buddies. The whole thing started with a WarCraft 3 "bug" that I don't intend to leave unfixed (just like creep stacking).

"Plus, it's strange that you can kill your own buddies."

For what other reasons do you think it's stupid? Killing your minions can make sense considering you deny treasures within the victim like information they should not expose under torture, change the sides, be caught in general. There are probably some other questionable points you can discuss about as well then like why you only get experience from death blows. How do you think it's a wc3 bug and what relevance does this hold to your project?

I love you Luorax is the only thing that I have to say.

Pro hint: Reason your affinity for the quoted feature instead of being love-blind.

 

[Luorax]

Well, ... mediocre to bad. Monochromy should be avoided. This makes it seem like the hero possesses only one element (is one-dimensional) and it is confusable, especially since the pictures are not that expressive and therefore partly interchangeable. Even more than the spells, the item icons are unrecognizable in either shape or effect. From the pictures, the heroes do not look like such at all. Some glow or unique contrast pls. The bars are too big in comparison but still thin. The heroes are so small.

I find this quite relative. I asked him to make those icons monochrome, I wanted him to make sets that have similar colours. In my opinion they look better together.

All the item icons are from THW's approved icons section, you'll have to find their creators and tell them what you think about their icons.

LoL was not first but maybe you mean of the 4 famous moba games. Well, when you block anything, this seems kind of nonselective. So I hope it is at least not as passive as Banshee's Veil.

I was talking about those MOBA games - as far as I know HoN did not have that mechanism when LoL came out - I don't know if it has one, I hate that "game".

"Plus, it's strange that you can kill your own buddies."

For what other reasons do you think it's stupid? Killing your minions can make sense considering you deny treasures within the victim like information they should not expose under torture, change the sides, be caught in general. There are probably some other questionable points you can discuss about as well then like why you only get experience from death blows. How do you think it's a wc3 bug and what relevance does this hold to your project?

Because I'm a nice guy and have never thought of mixing up his tequila with some poison just to make sure he'll never tell my teacher about teaching on the biology test.
I'm not completely sure if it's a bug, as it was present in StarCraft too, but considering you can't right-click order your units to attack a friendly unit, I think you shouldn't be able to attack order them via the attack order either.

 

[Jazztastic]

You can't right click attack your units because right clicking your units gives a patrol order. It's a lot smarter to right click patrol then right click attack your own units, which is why blizzard made it that way. In the default game the only reason to attack your own units is to clear up food.

That's not a bug at all.

 

[Luorax]

Well, it was not the fact I considered it a bug the reason I decided to get rid of the deny mechanism.

 

[WaterKnight]

I find this quite relative. I asked him to make those icons monochrome, I wanted him to make sets that have similar colours. In my opinion they look better together.

And this way you got yourself two full pink-purple sets.

All the item icons are from THW's approved icons section, you'll have to find their creators and tell them what you think about their icons.

Invalid argument, you approved of them by importing them into your map. The composition and the role they take in your map matter. Do not delegate the responsibility to third parties.

I don't know if it has one, I hate that "game".

Very open-minded statement also considering the insult on the previous page. And that's why I cast doubts on your attitude and approach. Reviewing your motivation "LoL has no LAN mode" and other displays of LoL-fanboyism provide me an answer for your earlier question:

Also, it's a shame to see that noone gives a f**k about our project; is it really that bad guys?

Yes, I think it is bad to just mimic stuff up to the degree that you do not deem it necessary to properly present your project because you see it as an already-known AoS and do not think outside the box what can be done better or what ideas of your own you want to implement.

I'm not completely sure if it's a bug, as it was present in StarCraft too, but considering you can't right-click order your units to attack a friendly unit, I think you shouldn't be able to attack order them via the attack order either.

You cannot right-click them to use a spell on them. So maybe you should not be able to cast spells on them in general either. :srsly?: It's not done on default because it might be accidental and, in wc3 and starcraft, it's more probable that you want to move to them or their position rather than attacking them. You may consider putting attack on right-click for minions in an AoS however.

In the default game the only reason to attack your own units is to clear up food.

There are more reasons like denying xp, removing collisions when units block each other or you kill off a slow catapult while retreating since you do not want to be detected by a roaming enemy.

 

[Champara Bros]

And this way you got yourself two full pink-purple sets.



Invalid argument, you approved of them by importing them into your map. The composition and the role they take in your map matter. Do not delegate the responsibility to third parties.



Very open-minded statement also considering the insult on the previous page. And that's why I cast doubts on your attitude and approach. Reviewing your motivation "LoL has no LAN mode" and other displays of LoL-fanboyism provide me an answer for your earlier question:



Yes, I think it is bad to just mimic stuff up to the degree that you do not deem it necessary to properly present your project because you see it as an already-known AoS and do not think outside the box what can be done better or what ideas of your own you want to implement.



You cannot right-click them to use a spell on them. So maybe you should not be able to cast spells on them in general either. :srsly?: It's not done on default because it might be accidental and, in wc3 and starcraft, it's more probable that you want to move to them or their position rather than attacking them. You may consider putting attack on right-click for minions in an AoS however.



There are more reasons like denying xp, removing collisions when units block each other or you kill off a slow catapult while retreating since you do not want to be detected by a roaming enemy.

Ok I am going to beat your every argument, because you are an troll with 0 contribution to this site with really annoying comments about stuff you do not know.

If you want to make a map you need to have icons, which are basics of mapmaking. They are not available in exactly every form you need so you need to satisfy yourself with what you have. If hero casts pink spells then what is the point of making blue(or any other colored) icons ?. EVERY spell color matches it's icon.

Also FYI killing your own army is retarded. Why should unit wait around for you to kill it. That makes game surreal. I get it if unit has low health and it is better to just kill it and makes another one. That won't work in any war game or real life, term friendly fire, traitor and everything related to killing your own team mates is considered crazy.

and seriously how desperate are you, I saw your projects in your signature. Maybe if you focused more on your own projects rather that those of others maybe you could have finished already.

and also Luorax is right regarding attack button, you are not supposed to be able to attack your own units, AI proves it because it never does. And what do you talk about denying expirience, during the time you would kill one unit, you already leave the killer useles and more prone to get killed himself. Not to even mention amount of logistic required to perform such feats. And also if you need food, you send your units on a sucide mission. I totally agree with luorax, killing your own units is a treason. Refering to Arthas in the campaign.
And if you retreat, my friend any good enemy will sent some units to follow you, and catapults get destroyed by your enemies anyway.

 

[WaterKnight]

If you want to make a map you need to have icons, which are basics of mapmaking. They are not available in exactly every form you need so you need to satisfy yourself with what you have. If hero casts pink spells then what is the point of making blue(or any other colored) icons ?. EVERY spell color matches it's icon.

I have not spoken against having icons in general. The icons here were manufactured according to a pattern, the author wanted them and obviously was not satisfied with wc3's standard selection. And even if there is poor choice, what's wrong with signalizing the problem especially since this is not something impossible to fix? But from the replies it does not seem to be unwanted this way. And yes, the other spell arts should not be monochrome either for same reasons.

Also FYI killing your own army is retarded. Why should unit wait around for you to kill it. That makes game surreal. I get it if unit has low health and it is better to just kill it and makes another one. That won't work in any war game or real life, term friendly fire, traitor and everything related to killing your own team mates is considered crazy.

The units do not wait around. It is practiced by some AoS that they only get attackable below an health threshold. There are a lot of other logic flaws you do not seem to be aware about or care for. Why paying a merchant for example rather than just stealing that essential weapon or health potion you need to survive. Of course, you can question this. How about you do not actually kill friends but rather teleport them back into lazaret by channeling their few lightweight remaining vigor?

and also Luorax is right regarding attack button, you are not supposed to be able to attack your own units, AI proves it because it never does.

Wc3 melee is a completely different scenario and the AI is hardly advanced, which is why it is also unflexible. Does the AI tower rush?

And what do you talk about denying expirience, during the time you would kill one unit, you already leave the killer useles and more prone to get killed himself. Not to even mention amount of logistic required to perform such feats. And also if you need food, you send your units on a sucide mission. I totally agree with luorax, killing your own units is a treason. Refering to Arthas in the campaign.

Yes, there can be disadvantages when trying to deny a minion. The same applies to finishing off enemy units. The game is not as straight-forward as it would not require you to make decisions by estimating situations.

If you actually want answers to your other questions/points, forward a PM. This is not the right place for them.

 

[Druu]

I read the fury of posts that happened here and I will say this :

Skillsket with different colors looks really bad imo, I prefer to have same colors for 4-5 icons
rather than having icons that don't fit together right next to each other.

I know it can become weird at some point if the debuffs are the same color because you
have two heroes on the enemy team with similar colors. But when you know the game
you're playing, you usually get used to effects other heroes do and the effects it has
on your own hero.

 

[Jazztastic]

Ok I am going to beat your every argument, because you are an troll with 0 contribution to this site with really annoying comments about stuff you do not know.

If you want to make a map you need to have icons, which are basics of mapmaking. They are not available in exactly every form you need so you need to satisfy yourself with what you have. If hero casts pink spells then what is the point of making blue(or any other colored) icons ?. EVERY spell color matches it's icon.

Also FYI killing your own army is retarded. Why should unit wait around for you to kill it. That makes game surreal. I get it if unit has low health and it is better to just kill it and makes another one. That won't work in any war game or real life, term friendly fire, traitor and everything related to killing your own team mates is considered crazy.

and seriously how desperate are you, I saw your projects in your signature. Maybe if you focused more on your own projects rather that those of others maybe you could have finished already.

and also Luorax is right regarding attack button, you are not supposed to be able to attack your own units, AI proves it because it never does. And what do you talk about denying expirience, during the time you would kill one unit, you already leave the killer useles and more prone to get killed himself. Not to even mention amount of logistic required to perform such feats. And also if you need food, you send your units on a sucide mission. I totally agree with luorax, killing your own units is a treason. Refering to Arthas in the campaign.
And if you retreat, my friend any good enemy will sent some units to follow you, and catapults get destroyed by your enemies anyway.

Oh god please don't compare warcraft 3 to real life. In real life if you had an injured soldier/malfunctioning equipment, they wouldn't be deployed. If a soldier was injured in the field they would leave the battle.

And the right click is just a hotkey morons. Stop arguing such a stupid point.

And don't base anything off of AI, this map isn't melee, and the AI plays the melee like retards anyways.

 

[I3lackDeath]

Would you mind to stop this shittalk or atleast move it to visitor's messages?
You are spamming my news folder and I don't want to un-subscribe this thread incase some USEFUL updates are at hand. Ò_ó

 

[Chucky]

Is this map every going to be ready ? In this rate nobody will even play it cause people will have forgoten about Wc3.

 

[Luorax]

Yes, it is. A few more icons and 2 effects for the current 20 heroes, and I have 4 hero concepts finished already. Once these two effects are finished, I'll start making the new heroes and their new effects, while Fjury is making those icons (unfortunately CR couldn't help us out this time to catch up with ourselves).

 

[Champara Bros]

Oh god please don't compare warcraft 3 to real life. In real life if you had an injured soldier/malfunctioning equipment, they wouldn't be deployed. If a soldier was injured in the field they would leave the battle.

And the right click is just a hotkey morons. Stop arguing such a stupid point.

And don't base anything off of AI, this map isn't melee, and the AI plays the melee like retards anyways.

I agree warcraft is not like the real life. But some facts remain. There is gravity in warcraft as well as treason. I myself kill my units in warcraft but I am not supposed to be able to. That being said I would also like to mention that last water knight reply was only polite post he made. Also if someone does not like the project, then why comment on it. Especially if you will insult the creator. We spend a lot of time developing this thing, and it is hard since we have lives. So thanks to everyone who are interested in developing it, and helping us develop it.

 

[Fjury]

It is already settled that you can't deny your creeps, so please continue the discussion in a new thread instead of here. :>

So, let's continue talking about with something else.

I'll soon be home to continue working on the icons.

 

[Zack1996]

Something about the terrain really bugs me. From some of the screenshots, it feels like there's just too many things placed on the map to make it more vibrant. Unfortunately, it doesn't serve a very practical purpose and may be pretty detrimental to what you want to achieve- an aggressive game.

Since you're pretty familiar with LoL, I'll go through some of the things that I feel they did right in that regard.

Firstly, the terrain is simple and not attention grabbing. At this point, it feels like the terrain, spell effects and doodads are more prominent than the heroes themselves. What I immediately noticed when I clicked on that screenshot were the two huge green clusters of posion gas (?) and the random greenery. It makes it very difficult to focus on what is actually going on in a fight, especially when the fight is mainly focused on spamming spells.

Secondly, the color scheme of the heroes and his/her spells are intuitive. While I don't necessarily enjoy it when the heroes colored the same as their spells, I find myself pretty annoyed by the current coloring. I get that the hero's a Doom thing so why must the spells be of a contrasting color? In LoL, it made quite a lot of sense when it came down to who was casting what because the champions and their spells shared similar color schemes.

I like the systems you have tried to implement. They look nice and useful.

Do work on some of the item icons, many look too complicated and messy to blend in properly with the normal Warcraft III icons and even with one another. Keep them clean and simple with enough details to distinguish one from another.

Finally, 6 spells are a little tough to work with. I'm not sure how you're managing now but I wish you luck in future developments; it's only going to get tougher. I'll look forward to this.

 

[WaterKnight]

I agree warcraft is not like the real life. But some facts remain. There is gravity in warcraft as well as treason. I myself kill my units in warcraft but I am not supposed to be able to. That being said I would also like to mention that last water knight reply was only polite post he made. Also if someone does not like the project, then why comment on it. Especially if you will insult the creator. We spend a lot of time developing this thing, and it is hard since we have lives. So thanks to everyone who are interested in developing it, and helping us develop it.

There is not much of gravity in wc3. It's not that I dislike the project in general but precisely because there are drawbacks and it does not seem to founder on the technical skill or effort, I feel the need to pick on your sense of honor and enlarge your view.

"Also if someone does not like the project, then why comment on it."

To gain greater and unique projects. Likewise, I also questioned why so many on this site try to do an ORPG that you can see from the first post get a highly 08/15 shape, therefore hardly contain personal input.

My opinion is that posts only going "hooray" are spam. You can get much more out of critical but factual voices. That is if you really accept them.

Firstly, the terrain is simple and not attention grabbing. At this point, it feels like the terrain, spell effects and doodads are more prominent than the heroes themselves. What I immediately noticed when I clicked on that screenshot were the two huge green clusters of posion gas (?) and the random greenery.

#

Finally, 6 spells are a little tough to work with. I'm not sure how you're managing now but I wish you luck in future developments; it's only going to get tougher. I'll look forward to this.

5+1 from the screenshots and 1 out of the 5 is passive. That is not much for an AoS where you only control one hero but the spells. So the fitting question: Does the player have to control more entities and stuff unlike LoL demands it? What about summons and their movements/actions?

 

[Drunken_Jackal]

Well you guys should take this to the VM/PMs.

Also, WaterKnight gives constructive criticism in my point of view.
So, you guys should also accept it.

Besides, you are aiming the approval of the masses, and WaterKnight is part of the masses.

 

[Luorax]

Something about the terrain really bugs me. From some of the screenshots, it feels like there's just too many things placed on the map to make it more vibrant. Unfortunately, it doesn't serve a very practical purpose and may be pretty detrimental to what you want to achieve- an aggressive game.

Firstly, the terrain is simple and not attention grabbing. At this point, it feels like the terrain, spell effects and doodads are more prominent than the heroes themselves. What I immediately noticed when I clicked on that screenshot were the two huge green clusters of posion gas (?) and the random greenery. It makes it very difficult to focus on what is actually going on in a fight, especially when the fight is mainly focused on spamming spells.

That's just the Last Alliance base - it has a lot of things for sure. There are like 2 more similar spots on the map, but that's all - the rest of the map is kept simple; as you said it yourself, it shouldn't be attention-grabbing and should not make it hard to see what's going on.

Secondly, the color scheme of the heroes and his/her spells are intuitive. While I don't necessarily enjoy it when the heroes colored the same as their spells, I find myself pretty annoyed by the current coloring. I get that the hero's a Doom thing so why must the spells be of a contrasting color? In LoL, it made quite a lot of sense when it came down to who was casting what because the champions and their spells shared similar color schemes.

You're talking about Doombot, right? Well, he uses Fel-Fire to burn down things, and even the oil that the machine can launch to the ground (what you can see on the ground - slows units standing on it, makes them unable to dodge attacks, and can be ignited by the E spell)
Snodhar uses mostly black effects, but I thought black/grey icons would be horrible - so we made the set bright purple.

Do work on some of the item icons, many look too complicated and messy to blend in properly with the normal Warcraft III icons and even with one another. Keep them clean and simple with enough details to distinguish one from another.

I've added more complicated and better looking icons for high-tier items on purpose - while Tier 1-2 item icons are supposed to be simple, and usually original WC3 icons, I wanted to add some fancy and good-looking icons for those high-level and strong items.

Finally, 6 spells are a little tough to work with. I'm not sure how you're managing now but I wish you luck in future developments; it's only going to get tougher. I'll look forward to this.

There're only 5 spells per hero (usually). 4 active spells (Q-W-E-R) and the passive one (F) (in some cases you can use this spell too - for example, to change your polarity). That book there switches the game multiboard to statboard, and vica versa.

Does the player have to control more entities and stuff unlike LoL demands it? What about summons and their movements/actions?

There are not many of them at the moment. There's a spell that summons a tentacle - it can't move or attack, but spreads its spells frequently to closer targets. There's another spell, that summons two Fel Stalkers - they can't be controlled either, however they'll always stay close to you and will attack the target you're attacking. They will just follow you and attack nothing normally, attacking an enemy hero under the tower would pull agroo, which sucks.
I personally don't intend to add any more spells that summon anything. Those spawns are just boring as hell to play with - I mean where's the fun in summoning some shits and having lunch while those companions own the hell out of everyone?

 

[WaterKnight]

I personally don't intend to add any more spells that summon anything. Those spawns are just boring as hell to play with - I mean where's the fun in summoning some shits and having lunch while those companions own the hell out of everyone?

They should not own the hell out of everyone on their own but be used for diversification and combos. Whether you can eat lunch meanwhile depends on how you balance them and require skill controlling them + hero. There are a lot of different types of summons and hybrid forms.

 

[Luorax]

They should not own the hell out of everyone on their own but be used for diversification and combos. Whether you can eat lunch meanwhile depends on how you balance them and require skill controlling them + hero.

True, that's why we have a few of them. But it must be a really epic hero concept (for example: Orianna in LoL; but the ball isn't a real spawn tho) for me to add more spawned units.

 

[WaterKnight]

Yes, LoL has some hybrid forms and shows different types like ball of Orianna, traps from Nidalee, Teemo and Caitlyn, timed area effects like Anivia's ulti, Cassiopeia, Gangplank, Veigar, Gragas, Swain, Lux, ..., Malzahar, he also has a more unit-like one, Annie, Maokai, special unit buffs like Mordekaiser, Zilean. It does not have to be a real unit that you can order freely around but some effects that last for a duration on some area or function independently to create some combos with are nice.

 

[Luorax]

Those things are cool for sure (Anub'Theran can lay down invisible traps too, the first unit that steps on it will take damage and the parasite will reveal it for a few seconds) - I'll try to implement more of them later on. Or well, even Yorick is quite fun - but those Heimerdinger turrets and brushcamper AP Shacos...

 

[WaterKnight]

The boxes are too stackable. The main problem of Heimer's turrets, Teemo's Mushrooms and Shaco's boxes is that they last an infinity. I am not a fan of mass-mana needing summons either like the Beastmaster in Wc3. It's too inflexible. Are there instant refilling health/mana potions?

 

[Luorax]

Nope - health and mana potions restore 1,5% of your maximum health/mana every second for 15 seconds. Getting attacked will not cancel this effect - I personally found it really annoying in DotA that you actually had to go and hide for like 10 seconds to get some health back, plus, by doing this you could get a huge amount of health back. This way, potions are not as strong early game but won't become completely useless later on.

I'm also thinking of adding battle-elixirs. You can consume one, and you can get a significant boost for a few seconds. I'd also add an item (I think it would be a pair of boots, so that it'd be useful for any hero, no matter which role it fills in), that would serve as a spell book, but for consumables (potions, wards, battle elixirs). I just don't know what these elixirs should grant.

And actually I'm not a LoL fanboy - I don't even play LoL nowadays. It's simply that a lot of things that LoL have done are those things that I'd have done myself (like potions, low cooldowns with high regen, no STR/AGI/INT stats, and so forth). There're certain things in LoL that I don't like either. Of course that's also true that a few things got inspired by LoL, I never said there aren't.

 

[Jazztastic]

Nope - health and mana potions restore 1,5% of your maximum health/mana every second for 15 seconds. Getting attacked will not cancel this effect - I personally found it really annoying in DotA that you actually had to go and hide for like 10 seconds to get some health back, plus, by doing this you could get a huge amount of health back. This way, potions are not as strong early game but won't become completely useless later on.

I'm also thinking of adding battle-elixirs. You can consume one, and you can get a significant boost for a few seconds. I'd also add an item (I think it would be a pair of boots, so that it'd be useful for any hero, no matter which role it fills in), that would serve as a spell book, but for consumables (potions, wards, battle elixirs). I just don't know what these elixirs should grant.

And actually I'm not a LoL fanboy - I don't even play LoL nowadays. It's simply that a lot of things that LoL have done are those things that I'd have done myself (like potions, low cooldowns with high regen, no STR/AGI/INT stats, and so forth). There're certain things in LoL that I don't like either. Of course that's also true that a few things got inspired by LoL, I never said there aren't.

I personally find it more annoying when potions are combat usable because it allows players to avoid ganks. There was a very specific reason that Icefrog made potions non-instant and non-combat. It's the same reason he changed the Heart of Tarrasques regen from static hp/sec to % based when out of combat for 8 seconds. Maybe it really works for you map, we won't know until a beta is released. But you should seriously alpha test a bunch. I'd suggest alpha testing with and without combat potions.

 

[Luorax]

I personally find it more annoying when potions are combat usable because it allows players to avoid ganks. There was a very specific reason that Icefrog made potions non-instant and non-combat. It's the same reason he changed the Heart of Tarrasques regen from static hp/sec to % based when out of combat for 8 seconds. Maybe it really works for you map, we won't know until a beta is released. But you should seriously alpha test a bunch. I'd suggest alpha testing with and without combat potions.

No, WC3 built-in potions work like that - knowing DotA, I'm pretty sure they work like that because the WC3 ones do so.

 

[Jazztastic]

Instead of being a dick to a popular game because you don't like it, you could actually read the suggestions I made and take them into account. And there is a lot of thought put into every little thing in DotA, so please don't just hate on the game.

 

[Luorax]

Instead of being a dick to a popular game because you don't like it, you could actually read the suggestions I made and take them into account. And there is a lot of thought put into every little thing in DotA, so please don't just hate on the game.

It'd be much easier for me to fulfill your request if you had asked me to fly. But okay, let's say for a second you're right; then what's the purpose of "GYLZ" and similar key-bindings? Or did IceFrog want to make the game playable for octopuses too? It's the easiest thing of the world to create a QWER key-binding - how can you say that he's lazy to change the binding, but not lazy to code HoT items (because it's made in GUI - coding similar periodic stuffs in GUI ain't easy), when he can just be poor and use the built-in potion?

Call me childish, or anything you want, but I wouldn't stop hating that thing even if I had to be staring at a barrel.

I think I'll give a try to the flat amount based potions tho'; you can get a lot of regen from items, those potions may be too strong later in the game.

I'm also just about to add a function that will be quite welcomed in my opinion: after buying an item, you ave 20 seconds to sell it back for its original cost. After that, you'll only get 75% of this amount back. Mislclicking and buying the wrong item is frustrating, especially here, since you can get the item just by clicking on it.

 

[Tom_Kazansky]

I'm also just about to add a function that will be quite welcomed in my opinion: after buying an item, you ave 20 seconds to sell it back for its original cost. After that, you'll only get 75% of this amount back. Mislclicking and buying the wrong item is frustrating, especially here, since you can get the item just by clicking on it.

cool!
sometime I did misclick and got the wrong item,

 

[FatalBlade]

Very interesting AoS. Love the systems, love the spells, love the healthbars. I loved the new systems of stats. The item-craft system is nice, but I think its too difficult for an ordinary player to understand.

And try to make it less similar to DoTA, at least the terrain. You know, the genre of DoTA is AoS, not AoS is the genre of DoTA.

 

[Luorax]

Well, the shop system is very, very easy to use and understand; it's an advanced version of the old recipe system that 90% of AoS maps use. It's easier to use it, because you don't have to go ninja-mode with items; if you have enough gold, you can easily buy the item simply by clicking on it. The Tiers only show the level of the items (Tier 1: reagents, Tier 2: recipes, but also reagents for higher-tier items, Tier 3: strong magical items/weapons, Tier 4: antique magical items blessed with vast magic power & rare weapons. The key items for any role)

Well, the terrain - it's not really like the DotA in my opinion. I'm a real fan fof the traditional triple lane map setup (top-mid-bot) and Ashenvale & Felwood are my favoruite tilesets (all my other WC3 test maps are made in Ashenvale so I thought of making this one Felwood for fun). The buldings, creeps, and even the doodads & jungle differs from DotA - if there's someone who's not trying to copy DotA, then it's me, believe me

 

[Luorax]

Invasion in Duskwood Alpha v0.85:

New Content:

• [CORE] The total slow factor on a unit now caps at 80%.
• [CORE] The tooltips and background stories are now displayed properly on the hero selection board.
• [CORE] The health bar's colour no longer depends on alliance, but on sides; green bar for Last Alliance and red one for Fel Force players.
• [CORE] You may now move items in your hero's inventory. Note that it only visually resets the CD timer, cooldowns remain untouched.
• [CORE] The untargetable Voidwalker has been replaced with Succubus.
• [CORE] CC duration modification now also stacks multiplicatively.
• [ITEM] Void Cloak Rework: after activation, for 2 seconds, offensive spells are blocked.
• [ITEM] 7 new compounds in the "Consumables" category.
• [ITEM] Dragonbone Bow's recipe has been changed.
• [ITEM] Bloodsteel Armor no longer stacks with Gan'arg Battle Implant.
• [ITEM] Radiating Light now applies a debuff to the healed targets, rendering them immune to its effect for 30 seconds.
• [HERO] Xirris' Mana Break may now be cast on minions and creeps as well.
• [HERO] Xirris' Mana Stalkers may now extend the 522 Movement Speed cap and will attack towers as well.
• [HERO] Damage over time effects no longer deal damage on application.
• [HERO] The tooltip of Quoyochakee's Dream Funnel has been cleared and its numbers have been changed.
• [HERO] Activating Tidalus' ultimate will set the deactive spell on a 1 second cooldown.
• [HERO] The cast time from Quoyochakee's Crystal Shield has been removed.
• [HERO] Sirion's spell casts no longer grant him Radiance points.
• [HERO] Lots of balance changes.
• [HERO] Raz'Jalr has been reworked.
• [HERO] Scneer's "Into the Nether" has been finished.
• [HERO] New hero: "Tock, the Time-Lost Corruptor"

Bug Fixes:

• [CORE] Fixed the Attack Speed formula.
• [CORE] Percentage stats (AD/AP/Armor/Resistance) now work again.
• [CORE] Fixed a bug where damages that didn't exceed 3 were ignored.
• [CORE] Jungle creep will no longer turn on you when they're spawned or when they retreat.
• [CORE] Fixed a bug where certain spells would cause a double free bug, messing up the spell system, leading to weird behaviour of spells.
• [CORE] Fixed the tower lines and the spots where minions are spawned.
• [HERO] Removed the debug text from Glacion's Frigid Blast
• [HERO] Fixed a bug where Draku'Jin's Morph would not transform its target (only visual).
• [HERO] Fixed a bug where Nessara's Demonic Precision's damage would not be based on the damage dealt, but her base damage.
• [HERO] Fixed a bug where Jainar's passive would make him immune to Crowd Control effects.
• [HERO] Fixed a bug where Jainar's Raging Whirld would last longer than intended.
• [HERO] Fixed a bug where Jainar's Ruthless Swipe would break the spell system, making spells not work.
• [HERO] Fixed a bug where the duration of Jainar's Giant Strike's disarm would be constantly 3 instead of scaling with level.
• [HERO] Fixed a bug where you could stack bonuses from Xirris' Mana Stalkers.
• [HERO] Fixed a bug where Sirion's Imbue Armor would not reflect timed projectiles properly.
• [HERO] Fixed a bug where Sirion's resource bar would remain orange if he died with 5 or more Radiance points.
• [HERO] Fixed a bug where Snodhar's Fearful Strikes did not have an inner cooldown.
• [HERO] Fixed a bug where Snodhar's Stalk would cause him to respawn without a model if he died while Stalking.
• [HERO] Fixed a bug where Snodhar's Shadow Smoke would deal damage once again even if he died.
• [HERO] Fixed a bug where Zaraxxus' Internal Instability buff would not grant enough AP.
• [ITEM] Fixed a bug where Chestplate of Triumph would not store damage taken properly.
• [ITEM] Fixed a bug where Inscription of Stability would increase kill rewards as well.
• [ITEM] Fixed a bug where items that extend the duration of DoT effects would not work properly.
• [ITEM] Fixed a bug where Icebane Axe caused melee attacks to deal more damage than intended.
• [ITEM] Fixed the tooltip of Leviathan's Shielding; now it correctly states that it builds from Chromatic Dragonscale Cloak, and that it grants Resistance.

Tock, the Time-Lost Corruptor

"Tick was once the member of the Bronze Dragonflight, this timeless creature now serves Murozond, the Infinite. His purposes are unknown, but the Legion is happy to have him enlisted in its forces, since their invasion got hold up by the desperate alliance of the mortal races. He is responsible for removing the Chrono-mage and Xirris from their timeline, but the results were different than his original plan. The special powers of the targeted mage interfered with the time-rift he created, and caused a massive outburst of alternative realities, which trapped him and limited his abilites, as well as deforming his very being. Once a proud dragon, now a twisted and distorted dragonspawn, he assumed the name "Tock", and began to terminate the timeline that trapped him. To do so, the only thing that he needs to achieve is letting the Burning Legion eliminate the mortal races of Azeroth…"

	Devour Time (Innate)	Tock has the unique ability to steal "time" from his opponents and add it to his own.Every time an enemy casts a spell near Tock, they get silenced for a brief period and suffer magic damage. Furthermore, Tock regains a set percent of his maximum mana. Channeled spells do not trigger the silence effect.
	Time Breaker (Q)	Tock uses his spear to cut a chaotic rift on the tegument of time and throws a mass made of the energies of Infinity towards the targeted point or unit. The mass deals damage to, and applies a damage over time effect on whoever it hits first, whose damage is increased based on their missing mana. If the target doesn't use mana, a percent of the flat damage is dealt instead. If the target is already affected by the damage over time effect, the missile becomes homing and deals 25% increased damage, but it won't refresh the damage over time effect. If the mass hits an enemy unit or has a target assigned, the spell's cooldown is reduced to 0.5 second.
	Out of Time (W)	Tock slowly breaks out of time and space to get advantage over his enemies. He can carry out attacks and move around faster as his connection weakens with space and time. Tock gains a buff that increases his attack and movement speed for 3 seconds, which bonuses further grow in this period. Performing a basic attack extends the duration by 1 second, up to a maximum of 6 seconds, in which period the bonuses keep on increasing. Additionally, his basic attacks and Time Breaker hits while the buff is active will set a piece of the victim's spirit out of dimension where he can absorb it, causing them to take extra magic damage based on their maximum life and healing Tock for this amount.
	Cosmic Gale (E)	Tock summons a powerful anomaly storm around himself that deals damage to every enemy units caught in the effect, and applies a debuff that increases their vulnerability to crowd control effects. The storm damages even the least particles, causing enemy projectiles to be destroyed when it's summoned.
	Fury of the Infinities (Ultimate)	Tock calls upon the mighty Infinites to weaken his enemies and those who dare to get close enough to them, helping him and his allies take down those who stand in their way. The Infinities strike on the targeted enemy hero, causing them to take damage and lose a percent of their movement speed, which they regain over time as they come round. The bane penetrates through their very body and attaches itself to it, releasing harmful shockwaves around the target before it completely disappears. Enemies near the target take damage equal to the 15% of the spell's damage every second and gain a stacking debuff decreasing their resistance for 4 seconds. The main target is unaffected by this effect of the spell.

Raz'jalr, the Faceless Horror

"Raz’jalr, this faceless creature is one of the most loyal and fanatic followers of the banished Old Gods. He is the herald of their corruption, the tool of their will’s fulfillment. He was ordered to join the forces of the Burning Legion, thus helping his masters plan of breaking free advance. Even his allies fear and respect him, as those who encountered him. Being watched and protected by the Old Gods, those who stand against him, have to face force and madness as they managed to loosen their prison."

	Presence of the Old Gods (Innate)	Every step Raz'Jalr takes on the overworld is watched closely by the imprisoned Old Gods, helping him wherever they can. When Raz'Jalr scores a critical hit with his auto-attack, a free Crusher Tentacle is summoned, that deals reduced damage (based on its skill level), and when he dodges an incoming attack, a free Impale is lauched towards the attacker, that deals reduced damage (based on the skill level). Both effects have an inner cooldown, which is independant from one another. Furthermore, his auto-attacks also cause corruption within the target, adding extra magic damage, and mana regeneration to each of his attacks.
	Aid of the Forgotten Ones (Q)	Causes your next attack to mark the target, allowing the Old Gods to crush it with ease. After the attack, a Crusher Tantacle emerges, and strikes your enemy once, dealing damage and applying a stun.
	Primordial Sentinel (W)	Passive: Raz'Jalr has a spectral perceiving tentacle that grants him improved alertness in combat, increasing his dodge chance. Active: Expands the tentacle to monitor the area around him, granting vision over obstacles and increased movement speed, increased by half of his current dodge chance.
	Impale (E)	Summons the spear-like tendrils of the Old Gods, that shoots towards your target, dealing damage to enemy land units in a line, and causing a liftoff. Upon landing, the affected units are slowed for a brief period.
	Tentacle Frenzy (Ultimate)	Summons the Old God's powers to crush your enemies. They will flood the area around Raz'jalr with their massive tentacles, trashing and crushing everything in their range. Three tentacles will emerge every second, they attack the closest enemy, and then disappear. Consecutive attacks against the same target deal 5% less damage (maximum 50% damage reduction).

ToDo:

• Remake the terrain from scratch then add in an epic jungle creep.

Known bugs:

• Nazzari's Freezing Field's effect is invisible on blighted terrain.

Also visit http://invasoninduskwood.freeforums.org/ for more information about the map.

 

[Drunken_Jackal]

Some Errors:
Hero Selection:
- Scneer's model doesn't display on the hero selection
- Its sometimes laggy when switching heroes in the hero selection
- Laggy when selecting the hero
- Overall game is laggy

Suggestions:
- Infinite time when selecting the heroes
- I don't fancy the terrain. Dead flat.
- AI?
- Camera lock option?
- Glacions model sucks. Terribly.

Didn't play much since it was lagging all over.

 

[Luorax]

- The terrain is supposed to be "dead flat". This is an AoS map. We could have made it way more fancy, and shiny, and etc with toby, he's a great terrainer and we had time for it too; but as I said, I wanted to keep it simple.

- Scneer's model: well yea, that was a last minute model fix. The original model did not have a chest attachment point, and the overhead was bad too. Well, it looks like I didn't notice that I renamed the old one when I imported it, so after the fix, it had a different name. It's fixed now.

- The hero selection lag comes from the not-preloaded units. You won't notice any lag at all when you click on a hero that you've clicked on already. I can preload them at the map init, but that'll increase the loading time.

- I'm not really concerned about the hero models. Everyone who's seen the map was perfectly fine with the Glacion model, including me. I personally have to take more things into consideration when importing a model; there's a better looking model that I was thinking of, but it's 4 times bigger.

- The map being laggy overall: well, I have 65 FPS constantly. I had plans on reducing it by changing the StatBoard code; right now it's updated periodically, however, I'll update the bonus system to update the given stat when that bonus is modified. I'm not quite sure if that'll help tho'; the map is trigger-heavy and relies on a lot of periodic stuff, I can't really do too much without taking away something. But I'll see what I can do.

- Camera lock? This is an AoS, I hope you remember. I'd say be pleased for not having this option, so that you won't play with players who have locked camera ever.
I'll fill up the last spot in the shop menu with an "Options" button, where you'll be able to change the camera distance, for example. I might add a lock camera option with the options menu.

- AI: that's the last thing on my priority list. I've also never done something similar, I personally don't want to waste my time on it yet.

 

[WaterKnight]

Was not laggy for me. But then, I played alone. Could not identify all abbreviations in the multiboard. The unit selection is hard, you also deactivated drawing a selection rect. Clicking through the shop menu is quite time-consuming. As in most other AoS, you do not know where to find the ingredients and items you can/cannot afford are not marked. It should not show previous/next page button if such does not exist. The tooltips are inconvenient, exaggerated in colorful text without highlights and effects and values are extracted above, so you do not really get it reading either of them. Is there any method of fast travelling like teleport? The hero level is not well identifiable in your custom bars. Otherwise, everything seemed pretty standard.

A tower vanished in my test. This means it still attacked everyone but its model disappeared. See replay shortly before ending.

 

[Luorax]

- Multiboard abbreviations:
S stands for (Killing) Spree
K means Kills
D means Deaths
A means Assists
M means minion kills a.k.a. CS.

- Well yea, most of the categories do not even need that next button (so far Weapons I is the only one with multiple pages, and it has only one item there). I'll get rid of the unnecessary ones. I just didn't remove tne to follow the basic category scheme.

- Fast travelling is possible; one of the level 2 boots (Boots of the Coward) grants the most movement speed out of all boots (+40 = Level 1 boots, +60 = regular Level 2 boots, +80 = Boots of the Coward) and can you teleport to a friendly building or ward.

- AoE unit selection was disabled because you could select locusted units sometimes (for example the Health Bar units). I have honestly no idea how is that possible, since locust's main function is to prevent the players from that, but it looks like WC3 failed us again. I can turn it on tho'.

- I could see each tower in the replay; I'm quite sure that happened becase of the Scneer ulti. Well, that's not implemented correctly yet (and I also forgot to make it target heroes only again). I have a few plans to get it work finally, but I'll need my friends, who are usually short on time nowadays - well yea, it's quite unfortunate. I think I'll just disable that spell in the next public version until it gets fixed.

- The tooltips' colours depend on your hero. Fel Force heroes use red and the Alliance members use that green colour. I personally find it more convenient; you can read what your spell does, and then all the concrete numbers are on the top of the tooltip if you have to read it quickly. Because unlike in individual MOBA games, where dinamically changing the tooltips is possible, here you can't modify them. Therefore writing something like this would hurt my eyes, and it'd also be harder to find what you need:

Creates a distortion in the fabric of Magic at the targeted location, causing a large wild-magic zone. Enemies within a 350 range become more vulnerable to magical attacks, and take 15% more damage from magical sources, and take 350 (+ 0.25 AP, + 0.6 Bonus AD) damage when the duration ends, as the anomaly explodes. The affected characters immediately explode if they get hit by the Netherflame, dealing extra damage (the extra damage factor is equal to the damage amplification) and applying a stun that lasts 1.5 seconds.

- I was thinking the same about hero level. Unfortunately I can't use two materials with "Blend", one of them has to be transparent. It had to be the hero level, which is quite strange because of that. And the colour is also quite bright for the bars. I'll increase the stroke's size, I think that'll do it.

Oh, and pressing the space bar will move the camera to your hero. Thought I should mention it.

 

[WaterKnight]

- Multiboard abbreviations:
S stands for (Killing) Spree
K means Kills
D means Deaths
A means Assists
M means minion kills a.k.a. CS.

The reason why I mentioned this was not because I wanted to know it but to signalize it's not that self-evident.

- Fast travelling is possible; one of the level 2 boots (Boots of the Coward) grants the most movement speed out of all boots (+40 = Level 1 boots, +60 = regular Level 2 boots, +80 = Boots of the Coward) and can you teleport to a friendly building or ward.

So, only when you build this. A main point that always nagged me about DotA is that you regularly need to run to base and back by foot.

- AoE unit selection was disabled because you could select locusted units sometimes (for example the Health Bar units). I have honestly no idea how is that possible, since locust's main function is to prevent the players from that, but it looks like WC3 failed us again. I can turn it on tho'.

Locusts lose some of their properties when being morphed for example.

- The tooltips' colours depend on your hero. Fel Force heroes use red and the Alliance members use that green colour. I personally find it more convenient; you can read what your spell does, and then all the concrete numbers are on the top of the tooltip if you have to read it quickly. Because unlike in individual MOBA games, where dinamically changing the tooltips is possible, here you can't modify them. Therefore writing something like this would hurt my eyes, and it'd also be harder to find what you need:

I do not say that you should directly implement the numbers but from the lore-rich text it's hard to make out the gameplay functionality. At least use some unified words and highlight them, so you can catch them with the eyes apart from the remaining text and still get a vague idea of what the spell does or do not call it "Damage" only in a Netherflame for example but instead "Cone Damage" etc., so you already get clues how that damage is applied.

We are also starting an AoS btw but that one holds some differences to your understanding of an AoS.

 

[Luorax]

The reason why I mentioned this was not because I wanted to know it but to signalize it's not that self-evident.

When I first made the MultiBoard, it contained the whole text. But it looked horrible because of that huge empty space between the numbers. After a few mins everything becomes obvious, and you don't need the board early on. I also didn't feel like adding a quest for this; where's the fun in testing something if you can find everything written down in the quest menu?

So, only when you build this. A main point that always nagged me about DotA is that you regularly need to run to base and back by foot.

Well, the UI is full. However, I think I could make "Patrol" teleport you home if you use it on the main building.

Locusts lose some of their properties when being morphed for example.

Well, they're simply moved periodically. But okay, I've enabled drag selection again; just don't blame me if you happen to select something that you shouldn't be able to.

 

[WaterKnight]

I would advise using icons for SKDAM.

You definitely do not need an UI feature like "swap multiboards" in the unit card. Do it via esc or minimizing the multiboard or chat command.

Of course I would blame you when selecting a dummy. But I would also blame you for bad controllings. Investigate the subject. It's a test version anyway. You did not remove Scneer's ultimate either.

One more thing: Earlier, my inventory was said to be full when trying to purchase an item but I still had a slot free.

 

[Luorax]

I was thinking of using icons for SKDAM myself earlier; I had many ideas before, but I'm silly and never write them down. I even have a list, but still, I hardly ever wrote anything into it. I'll do it from now on.

The instant ability was the most convenient solution I could think of. It used to be the escape key event, but it moved back one category in the shop. Well, with the current solution I can't even use it in the shop, so yea... I think I'll change it back to esc, and add a channeled, no target spell; after X seconds (let's say 6), your hero is teleported back to the spawning pool.

Did you use consumable items when that fake error-message popped up? I'm sure you did; now that you mentioned it, I came to realise that I forgot to add a line to the stack-handler method, therefore when you used all the stacks of something, the free slots variable never got increased by one. Buying and using consumables multiple times could lead to something like this, that's for sure.

 

[Druu]

Alright, so this is my review of your heroes so far. I tried to tell you my specific love and dislikes about each of them.

Yours to consider if my complaints are worth it

Review

Nassera

It is an impressive hero, she has so much cool abilities and utility. I'd play her as a support anytime even though she's more of a carry

The only problem I see here is that her spells are too strong and easy to use. Skillshot would be even more fun to use as they will require talent and skills.

Bringing someone to you that easily is very very powerful, I don't see why she isn't a MUST pick in all games.


=======================


Tidalus

Good melee hero, very good to control teamfights and tanky enough with a close gap or fight leaving ability.

Whirlpool should stun when the enemy is really "out" of the whirlpool actually. They are stunned inside and still suffer damage, that's kind of unfair, there is then no

reason to leave the whirpool and being stunned while doing it.

Ult and Shield ressembles a lot, but it's good. This is not a "must take" hero, but pretty skillshot balanced and fun to play.


=======================


Glacion

I think that having 4 offensive skills make all the spells redundant, having 4 times spells to deal damage and nothing to really "control" makes the hero either boring, too

strong or simply not playable as you always try to have him doing all the spells.

In warcraft 3 we have a problem that is called Targetting and unselecting hero. His Q spell create this kind of gameplay break, You can't Smartcast by pressing shift and

spamming Q. It doesn't work, it is a good spell design though a skillshot that requires spell stacking. I think that this hero isn't good enough even though I like the spells

except for the Ult and W, Q and E are original and fun to play with, maybe those should be his spells and W et R could be modified to have a utility aspect. Only one AoE

spell is enough to apply its passive I don't think he needs 2.

Also, on the skillshot base, I'd like to be able to cast E on the ground, would be an even more impressive spell. W would need to be Ground targeted too.


=======================


Scneer

It is indeed pretty hard to trigger such an ult

The W and Q combo is awesome, his E is very strong in the beginning of a teamfight, removing all mana from a carry is so good if it's an ap carry you kind of put him out of

fight when he is the most needed.

R is like half of Poppy's ult, I think you should use the "takes damage" trigger and check for buff, if the attacked unit is damage by a damage source with the Ethereal buff,

apply damage otherwise give health back. You should render Ethereal only the caster and targetted unit since they both disapear in the void.

I had a bug after using the ult on a creep, my spells weren't working on anything after.


=======================


Raz'jalr

Very hard to play since I don't think anything has a synergy. Passive wants you to be attacked which is why you have many stuns, to be a threat.

I think the Summoned Tentacles should be the ones having the passive and should apply a big slow and reduction of damage, something that almost requires you to destroy it.

Ult is easily killed by any stun so it's not enough to generate a "focus him or he'll destroy us". This hero should be rework, but I don't know how.

Maybe the Tentacles should be made like I said earlier with the passive, they should apply very strong debuffs to have the focus of enemies and you are in the back stunning

key characters with your 2 stuns. I don't know for the ult.

(You could also keep passive ont he hero, but make it so he's targeted.)
(Also, the ult didn't work on Jungle creeps)


=======================


Kassar

Fun hero to play with. The bone pool is fun to play with, lets you harrass a lot in lane when you last it like a boss.

I think the E spell is specially good for that harassing, W is good for teamfights and I tried to use it Shotgun like and wasn't able, this is a good thing

His ult is a must on this kind of hero, his Q is just an additional good thing. Q's passive is very good and makes this hero completely awesome. A very powerful AD carry


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Zaraxxus

Good ap carry, his E is fantastic for people whos likes to control many units at the same time. Q is good to flee, chase or join a fight. W has a good combo with E and works

well if you don't accidentaly cancel it.

His ult is fine, nothing impressive, just a clear aoe that slows and deals damage.

I think the ult could be changed for something else maybe a mass spell that would apply his E debuff on all units in the area and then when he uses E on a unit that already

has that buff, it is affected by a huge slow or reduced damage, something fun to play with. Have E cast on the same target 2 times could just apply something like fun so it

is easily usable in lane to harass.


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Jainar

A good bruiser, his skills are all good and have multiple utility. Ult is perfect but hard to aim, I used it near a creep and it didn't trigger but when it does it is a very

good skill. Disarming someone, getting some damage reduction, a charge. I like this hero, it must be a good jungler too.


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Erion

Wonderful support hero, good CCs and protection/healing spells. His health is also pretty decent to be in the front/middle line all the time.


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Xirris

I couldn't test him out since there was no heroes on enemy team but reading his spells was clear enough for me to understand him. This is kind of an AP assassin, the stalkers

are an addition to his original playstyle, his ult is great, Q's passive is also very good. his E is painful in a teamfight. I like him pretty much, I'd play him


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Sirion

Cool Bruiser, a mix between Sivir and Leona. I like the fact that he loses the ability to W and E when he tosses his shield away.

I like every single aspect of this hero except for the boringness of ult, I'd rather have it Leona like if you want my opinion, it'd be strong, but at least it's harder to

aim than just standing in the middle of the fight pressing R to stun everyone off. His passive is powerful and useful to this kind of character. This is a brilliant hero


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Shagutt

Totally not noob-friendly, I hardly understand his mechanic. Though, I have to mention how cool his Q is. I like the channeling to render the spell stronger very unique.

So this is a semi AP assassin hero that requires times to build his combo and then spams it on an enemy to bring it down if I understood. You stack Counters with E that you

will consume to gain AP and Magic Penetration that will make your W stronger and constantly setting your target to 0 Magic Resist so your Q can pierce through.

Ult only helps to make the combo come even faster. I like the ult, it's cool to toy with it, same with Q. Synergy between E and W is good too I guess. Not too much of a team

helper but good at sniping away annoying carries.


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Crizzix

That must be the most difficult to master hero and funniest to play with discovering many combos the more you play him. I like every single of the spells he has since they

all are different and acting the same. But I like the positive/negative passive too, since that's what makes him so unique.

Very good designed hero, something I'd like to master if this game is released


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Draku'Jin

I think I know where you took inspiration for this one. It is indeed a very powerful support with many spells included in the spellkit. I'd play it anytime. Everysingle

aspect of this hero is good.


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Snodhar

I don't like him, not too fun to play with. He has a good passive when he strikes from behind which is cool. Q is good cuz of Silence and gap closing. W is meh, I'd say fine,

but I'd like to completely disapear instead of creating smoke and then be able to use E (which I couldn't use at all, wherever I was on map. I think that you should not need

invisibility [OR] make at least 2 spells that would turn him "invisible enough" to use his E.

Ult is okay, deals initial damage, good useful effect of reducing damage while walking and then another damage burst. It's very good. But I'd not personnaly play this dude,

I'd prefer those perfect heroes instead.
Maybe you just need to tweak him a bit so it is funnier to play.


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Nazzari

Another perfect hero, her Q stacks witht he passive making her able to stun up to three targets which is great. W works fine, protection and slow CC and E helps your passive

to proc more often.

Ult is just the cherry on top making her spells even more effective, slowing and dealing damage. Another perfectly awesome AD carry


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Anub'Theran

I can say that some of her spells just don't work since pounce doesn't trigger damage but the spell says it does.

Though, the skills are pretty straight foward, slow an enemy down and focus it till it dies with melee attacks. I think that her Ult doesn't fit the skillset and its passive

just simply isn't thought enough. Setting traps is fun and useful to achieve the goal set before but it's not enough, it needs better skills when burrowed something that

would benefits to go under the enemy tower or something that would make you a bit weaker but adding support abilities. Actually, being able to swap between normal and

burrowed to add support to teamfights or while laning could be a great idea to start from


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Doombot

I had many bugs with this one, passive doesn't go on cooldown and I had to use his flamethrower to have his ult back. I could learn Ult at level 4 I think.

Alright, I like heroes with different mechanic and this one is good for that, I like his flamethrower effect. Combination of W and E is cool and fun to play with. Ult helps

for longer fights. I had trouble with this hero since it seems broken skillwise and triggerwise. I got overheated only once after ult and couldn't get overheated after. You

should check the triggers out and do your tests.


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Quoyochakee

Great hero with a slow, attack speed steal, protection and useful ultimate. I can't complain here, this one has a very distinct gameplay and is very good.
It also looks pretty cool all pink and stuff, he kinda looks like a plushie you want to hug, except this one throws tornado and unleashes hell on the map with that heavy rain.


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Norjhan

<3 awesome hero again, I'd make the leaf go into a tighter cone and that would be one of my favorite hero you designed. This one is a faboulous support.
I love the ult, but the cooldown is way too high, I'd rather have him on a low cooldown but healing less so he could use it many times during a teamfight.

Passive is :O. It is so freaking good !

 

[Luorax]

Very well, that's what I call a feedback So my thoughts:

Nessara
Well, making the Q a skillshot didn't really look that cool (that flying net was pretty ugly IMO). However, making the E a skillshot is something I've been playing with in my mind, so yea, I think I'll change it right away.

Glacion
Well, I tried to make multiple kind of heroes for each role. There are AP casters with more utility, this one was designed to be a pure damage dealer with a cool amount of CC. No escape mechanism, gap closer, or anything, but pure damage with a cool amount of CC. Kinda reminds me of Brand to be honest.

Scneer
Well, the E is an anti-mage tool. Since his only way to CC someone will remove the W damage amplification and is affected by CC reduction, Koro came up with this unique form of crowd control. The mana comes back quite fast, but of course it scales with AP. It also fits into the mana based theme (passive, plus check out his mana costs; he's mana hungry as hell).

Well, the ulti is still quite problematic, but I'll try to do my best. I personally think it'd be an awesome spell, cool utility, escape/initiation, and I don't really know about anything similar.

Raz'jalr
Okay, I was personally thinking of doing some tweaks to him, but had no idea where to start or what to change. I'm personally not really satisfied with the W to be honest, I just don't find it reliable or useful. He also summons enough tentacles, so I think I'll do something to this spell.

Well, the ulti is based on regular units and their attack is controlled by WC3. However, with the Scneer ultimate changes I'll have to remove rework every SFX that uses custom unit types with pre-set models, so I'll have to write a code for them too. Sad, because this means extra work for the CPU, but it won't be that noticeable IMO.

Sirion
Well yea, that ultimate; he's a melee hero and I didn't want to give him that Leona styled self-pull, but wanted him to have a ranged initiation spell.
Well, I think you may have not noticed, but the tooltip says at the shield's position; so by playing with the Q properly you can place your ultimate wherever you want. It can be a cool strategy to send in a beefy melee AD hero 4v5; the hungry enem team initaites instantly and then boom, a big shield arrives from the other side of the trees and stuns the whole team. My main idea was that, and I thought the QWE + passive gives him enough utility and eye-candy, the ultimate should be something simpler. A well placed AoE stun can be gamebreaker tho - just remember how top-pick that Ashe was on WCG because of that single stun arrow.

Draku'jin
Well, this hero was added months before Lulu came out Soraka's infuse inspired me, I wanted to create a whole "hybrid" support; by hybrid I mean something that can be played either offensively or defensively. It was different when I made his skillset (Q and E both dealth damage or healed, increased/decreased the heal the target takes and the W just the polymorph - but I thought that was both boring and too much heal so reworked him to this)

Snodhar
So he's a jungler assasin. The passive was originally that backstab-fear, however, thansk to Drunken_Jackal he has this passive now. He can sustain the jungle route and fuck-up non-mana user heroes, and mess with mana users as well.
He's one of the most funny one IMO, but you have to experience this with multiple players; the E is an utility that grants you and the AD carry bonuses later and hels you setup ganks early on. I mean, just imagine: you use on a minion or the support while you're invisible for the enemies. You ask them to take some damage making the enemies feel comfortable and ask them to engage. They'll be happy to turn back thinking what dumb you both are, but then you just jump on them with Q, use W to stun them and render yourself immune, then use the R to reduce their damage and sight range. Such a dirty tool. Also, because of the E, you can detect wards too, and in general, you'll know if they can see you.

Anub'Theran
That's another hero I'm thinking of reworking. The passive is just broken IMO; you're literally immune.

I was thinking of something like this:
You wouldn't lose MS while burrowed, you would be immune to skillshots and AoE spells, however, they could attack you and cast targeted spells on you. You might even gain some armor and resistance in the mother-earth. You have a cool harass tool, wards, slow and stun, etc while burrowed, and the stealth. As a jungler (he works well as a jungler, tested it myself), you can easily avoid wards, setup ganks, charge in, etc.
And the Q deals damage when the target lands. I've never seen it fail.

Doombot
Hmm, the ultimate's attributes are correct, it's strange that you could learn it that early. I've also never noticed bugs with the skills, but point taken, I'll test them.

EDIT:
Let's add some more "Well"-s, it didn't contain enough of it. So here it is:

Well, well, well, well, well.

 

[Drunken_Jackal]

The passive was originally that backstab-fear, however, thansk to Drunken_Jackal he has this passive now.

I see my name. Do you mean that in a good or in a bad way?
How about that other hero eh?

 

[Luorax]

I said "Thanks to Drunken_Jackal" and it's on the map as you can see, so you can guess

Well, the other one; the suggested model was too low-poly as I said and I can't really recall too many of his skills. But as far as I remember he had plenty of knockbacks (maybe too many of them), sort of an Alistar. I have all the 25 hero concepts on my HDD btw (and maybe you don't know it, but the public version contains 22 heroes; it's just 2 of them is not available to select in that version), two of them's been already implemented succesfully (hemomancer and Vladimir fans will enjoy the 21st one), once they have all their icons I'll start working on the rest. Into the Nether is the first on the list tho'.

EDIT: okay, I fixed the Doombot ulti leveling thing; I didn't know I was this dumb, but it looks like I am :S He should also lose his colour when the ult ends (the spell trigger is cool, so the problem must be somewhere in the color-handler snippet) and I'll check the passive.

EDIT2: oh now I see. It's the explosion that ruins everything. I'll try to figure out why it f**ks up the passive mechanism.

EDIT3: okay, it works properly in my version. Expect it in the new version; I'll most likely release that once all the Gorr (21st hero) icons are finished and his spell tooltips are tweaked, and I think I'll see what I can do about this Into the Nether. IDK when all these things will be finished, since my exams are coming in 3 weeks, but we shall see. Feel free to report bugs if you find more of them.