1. Updated Resource Submission Rules: All model & skin resource submissions must now include an in-game screenshot. This is to help speed up the moderation process and to show how the model and/or texture looks like from the in-game camera.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. DID YOU KNOW - That you can unlock new rank icons by posting on the forums or winning contests? Click here to customize your rank or read our User Rank Policy to see a list of ranks that you can unlock. Have you won a contest and still havn't received your rank award? Then please contact the administration.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. The poll for Hive's 12th Concept Art Contest is up! Go cast your vote for your favourite genie!
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Travel to distant realms and encounter scenes unknown to the common folk. The Greatest of Adventures is upon us with the 8th Cinematic Contest. Join in on a fun ride.
    Dismiss Notice
  5. The 18th Icon Contest is ON! Choose any ingame unit and give him/her Hero abilities. Good luck to all.
    Dismiss Notice
  6. Contestants are to create a scene set in the Stone Age. Come and see what you can come up with. We wish you the best of luck!
    Dismiss Notice
  7. Colour outside the lines! Techtree Contest #13 is a go. The contest is optionally paired.
    Dismiss Notice
  8. Greetings cerebrates, our Swarm needs new spawners that will have numerous children. Join the HIVE's 31st Modeling Contest - Spawners and Spawned! The contest is optionally paired.
    Dismiss Notice
  9. Check out the Staff job openings thread.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
60,000 passwords have been reset on July 8, 2019. If you cannot login, read this.

[AoS] Invasion in Duskwood

Discussion in 'Map Development' started by Luorax, Aug 30, 2011.

  1. Luorax

    Luorax

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,301
    Resources:
    1
    Maps:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    Okay, a small progress update:
    • 14 New items have been succesfully implemented. Two of them needs new icons, and their descriptions are yet to come, but it shouldn't take long to add them too.
    • Two set of icons have been made
    • Super minions have been made, they spawn periodically, tower lines work properly.
    • Dozens of bug fixes - I'm constantly revisiting the code and trying to improve things wherever possible, which may lead to bugs.
    • All the 100 spells (actually it's 105 - but tssh, I'll keep its reason in secret) are finished. A few test must be carried out so that I can make sure everything works as intended, plus we still need 15 spell icons and a couple of effect models (like ~4 effects) for them.
    • Champara Bros joined us, as a special effect creator.

    A few sets Fjury has made so far:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Map size is at 6,2 Mbytes (uncompressed)/4,8 Mbytes (compressed) at the moment.

    Well, that is for now. I think 1 or 2 more weeks, and all these heroes might be 100% done - after that, 5 more heroes and a few more items (took me like 3 hours to make those 14 items - started it at 4.00 p.m and it's 7.00 p.m here. I even had dinner and talked to a few of my friends in that time) and the beta is out!
     
  2. Jazztastic

    Jazztastic

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2011
    Messages:
    895
    Resources:
    7
    Spells:
    6
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    7
    After looking through this thread (two pages of it, to be precise), I had a few questions

    -Does the healthbar show enemies mana bars as well?
    -Are there skill dodges/skill target spells?
    -Is last hitting and denying implemented?
    -Have you actually playtested the map with a full group of people?

    The manabar one in particular bugs me. There's a reason the manabar tool is considered an unfair hack in wc3.

    But overall this looks very nice. Look forward to trying the beta.
     
  3. Luorax

    Luorax

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,301
    Resources:
    1
    Maps:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    The bars are visible for everyone. Last Alliance members have those yellow, while Invading Fel Forces members have the red bars, on everyone's monitor. Health and Mana/Radiance/Energy/Heat/Bones/<Insert other resource types here> can be seen by anyone, who has vision over that unit.

    Yes, there are many skillshots already. It's possible to dodge certain missiles. Furthermore, Sirion, who has been presentated on a page, has the ability to reflect spell missiles, if they come from the front. Nessara has a missile that knocks back the target - Sirion can reflect it back to Nessara, and knock her back.
    What's more, spell blocking has been implemented as well. It firstly appeared in LoL (Sivir/Banshee's Veil), and I found it a funny thing, so I made it too. You can block single targeted and AoE spells as well - in that case, you won't get any of its negative effects. You won't get stunned/slowed/crowd controlled, you won't get the damage nor its debuffs.

    You can last hit minions, however, you can't deny yours. I really hated that mechanism in general, and found the whole concept stupid. Plus, it's strange that you can kill your own buddies. The whole thing started with a WarCraft 3 "bug" that I don't intend to leave unfixed (just like creep stacking).

    Unfortunately, I haven't yet. Koronis, our lore writer and idea generator is very busy nowadays (attending to a university is quite exhausting sometimes and time-consuming). I also wanted to test it with one of my other friends, but his PC/WarCraft 3 copy was bugged and his PC always rebooted after playing a complex WC3 map. The basics (hero testing, first blooding, kill texts/sounds, etc.) have been proven to work flawlessly. Balancing is actually a hard and long process, I don't want to waste my time on it yet - I'll make all the heroes and items, and will worry about balance when they're all done.
    If this question's purpose was to ask whether it's laggy or not, then well, there were lags in the begging for sure. But I went through the map and rewrote many things and made almost everything run on a very low cost. Useless events are not registered, periodic things will stop/won't even start without a purpose, and so forth. I have 65 FPS on the map constantly, which is the highest number I've ever gotten on a WarCraft 3 map.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2012
  4. Laiev

    Laiev

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2008
    Messages:
    273
    Resources:
    1
    Template:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    >>You can last hit, however, you can't deny. I really hated that mechanism in general, and found the whole concept stupid. Plus, it's strange that you can kill your own buddies. The whole thing started with a WarCraft 3 "bug" that I don't intend to leave unfixed.

    I love you Luorax :) is the only thing that I have to say.

    Also, the maximum fps that Warcraft reach/allow is 65.
     
  5. Jazztastic

    Jazztastic

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2011
    Messages:
    895
    Resources:
    7
    Spells:
    6
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    7
    Lol denying is an integral part of lane control because it allows good players to stop bad players from getting creep money. Just like last hitting, it gives a leg-up to people who can do it. I don't quite understand why you'd love him for making the map easier to noobs and more shallow to pros.

    Maybe people prefer a more streamlined experience when it comes to AoS maps. But I personally prefer more advanced lane control.
     
  6. Luorax

    Luorax

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,301
    Resources:
    1
    Maps:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    I really don't want to start arguing over this again, I've had enough problems with this deny thing on another forum, with a stupid honfag who had tunnelvision and couldn't understand that he wa not welcomed in our LoL thread even after like 15 people told him to take a hike.

    I've asked many of my friends about this deny-removal, almost almost all of them agreed with me. You can be offensive instead and focus on only last hitting and zoning - sitting in one place and farming is hella boring, something I always hated from the very beginning. The spells don't take years to refresh and a level 1 spell will not cost 200 mana, so you can use them many ways, you can be offensive, you can farm with them, etc. Being agressive will pay back, and unlike farming, it's exciting at the same time.
     
  7. WaterKnight

    WaterKnight

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    4,033
    Resources:
    5
    Maps:
    1
    Tutorials:
    4
    Resources:
    5
    Well, ... mediocre to bad. Monochromy should be avoided. This makes it seem like the hero possesses only one element (is one-dimensional) and it is confusable, especially since the pictures are not that expressive and therefore partly interchangeable. Even more than the spells, the item icons are unrecognizable in either shape or effect. From the pictures, the heroes do not look like such at all. Some glow or unique contrast pls. The bars are too big in comparison but still thin. The heroes are so small.

    LoL was not first but maybe you mean of the 4 famous moba games. Well, when you block anything, this seems kind of nonselective. So I hope it is at least not as passive as Banshee's Veil.

    "Plus, it's strange that you can kill your own buddies."

    For what other reasons do you think it's stupid? Killing your minions can make sense considering you deny treasures within the victim like information they should not expose under torture, change the sides, be caught in general. There are probably some other questionable points you can discuss about as well then like why you only get experience from death blows. How do you think it's a wc3 bug and what relevance does this hold to your project?

    Pro hint: Reason your affinity for the quoted feature instead of being love-blind.
     
  8. Luorax

    Luorax

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,301
    Resources:
    1
    Maps:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    I find this quite relative. I asked him to make those icons monochrome, I wanted him to make sets that have similar colours. In my opinion they look better together.

    All the item icons are from THW's approved icons section, you'll have to find their creators and tell them what you think about their icons.

    I was talking about those MOBA games - as far as I know HoN did not have that mechanism when LoL came out - I don't know if it has one, I hate that "game".

    Because I'm a nice guy and have never thought of mixing up his tequila with some poison just to make sure he'll never tell my teacher about teaching on the biology test.
    I'm not completely sure if it's a bug, as it was present in StarCraft too, but considering you can't right-click order your units to attack a friendly unit, I think you shouldn't be able to attack order them via the attack order either.
     
  9. Jazztastic

    Jazztastic

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2011
    Messages:
    895
    Resources:
    7
    Spells:
    6
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    7
    You can't right click attack your units because right clicking your units gives a patrol order. It's a lot smarter to right click patrol then right click attack your own units, which is why blizzard made it that way. In the default game the only reason to attack your own units is to clear up food.

    That's not a bug at all.
     
  10. Luorax

    Luorax

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,301
    Resources:
    1
    Maps:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    Well, it was not the fact I considered it a bug the reason I decided to get rid of the deny mechanism.
     
  11. WaterKnight

    WaterKnight

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    4,033
    Resources:
    5
    Maps:
    1
    Tutorials:
    4
    Resources:
    5
    And this way you got yourself two full pink-purple sets.

    Invalid argument, you approved of them by importing them into your map. The composition and the role they take in your map matter. Do not delegate the responsibility to third parties.

    Very open-minded statement also considering the insult on the previous page. And that's why I cast doubts on your attitude and approach. Reviewing your motivation "LoL has no LAN mode" and other displays of LoL-fanboyism provide me an answer for your earlier question:

    Yes, I think it is bad to just mimic stuff up to the degree that you do not deem it necessary to properly present your project because you see it as an already-known AoS and do not think outside the box what can be done better or what ideas of your own you want to implement.

    You cannot right-click them to use a spell on them. So maybe you should not be able to cast spells on them in general either. :srsly?: It's not done on default because it might be accidental and, in wc3 and starcraft, it's more probable that you want to move to them or their position rather than attacking them. You may consider putting attack on right-click for minions in an AoS however.

    There are more reasons like denying xp, removing collisions when units block each other or you kill off a slow catapult while retreating since you do not want to be detected by a roaming enemy.
     
  12. Champara Bros

    Champara Bros

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2008
    Messages:
    270
    Resources:
    44
    Models:
    43
    Packs:
    1
    Resources:
    44
    Ok I am going to beat your every argument, because you are an troll with 0 contribution to this site with really annoying comments about stuff you do not know.

    If you want to make a map you need to have icons, which are basics of mapmaking. They are not available in exactly every form you need so you need to satisfy yourself with what you have. If hero casts pink spells then what is the point of making blue(or any other colored) icons ?. EVERY spell color matches it's icon.

    Also FYI killing your own army is retarded. Why should unit wait around for you to kill it. That makes game surreal. I get it if unit has low health and it is better to just kill it and makes another one. That won't work in any war game or real life, term friendly fire, traitor and everything related to killing your own team mates is considered crazy.

    and seriously how desperate are you, I saw your projects in your signature. Maybe if you focused more on your own projects rather that those of others maybe you could have finished already.

    and also Luorax is right regarding attack button, you are not supposed to be able to attack your own units, AI proves it because it never does. And what do you talk about denying expirience, during the time you would kill one unit, you already leave the killer useles and more prone to get killed himself. Not to even mention amount of logistic required to perform such feats. And also if you need food, you send your units on a sucide mission. I totally agree with luorax, killing your own units is a treason. Refering to Arthas in the campaign.
    And if you retreat, my friend any good enemy will sent some units to follow you, and catapults get destroyed by your enemies anyway.
     
  13. WaterKnight

    WaterKnight

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    4,033
    Resources:
    5
    Maps:
    1
    Tutorials:
    4
    Resources:
    5
    I have not spoken against having icons in general. The icons here were manufactured according to a pattern, the author wanted them and obviously was not satisfied with wc3's standard selection. And even if there is poor choice, what's wrong with signalizing the problem especially since this is not something impossible to fix? But from the replies it does not seem to be unwanted this way. And yes, the other spell arts should not be monochrome either for same reasons.

    The units do not wait around. It is practiced by some AoS that they only get attackable below an health threshold. There are a lot of other logic flaws you do not seem to be aware about or care for. Why paying a merchant for example rather than just stealing that essential weapon or health potion you need to survive. Of course, you can question this. How about you do not actually kill friends but rather teleport them back into lazaret by channeling their few lightweight remaining vigor?

    Wc3 melee is a completely different scenario and the AI is hardly advanced, which is why it is also unflexible. Does the AI tower rush?

    Yes, there can be disadvantages when trying to deny a minion. The same applies to finishing off enemy units. The game is not as straight-forward as it would not require you to make decisions by estimating situations.

    If you actually want answers to your other questions/points, forward a PM. This is not the right place for them.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2012
  14. Druu

    Druu

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    120
    Resources:
    2
    Maps:
    2
    Resources:
    2
    I read the fury of posts that happened here and I will say this :

    Skillsket with different colors looks really bad imo, I prefer to have same colors for 4-5 icons
    rather than having icons that don't fit together right next to each other.

    I know it can become weird at some point if the debuffs are the same color because you
    have two heroes on the enemy team with similar colors. But when you know the game
    you're playing, you usually get used to effects other heroes do and the effects it has
    on your own hero.
     
  15. Jazztastic

    Jazztastic

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2011
    Messages:
    895
    Resources:
    7
    Spells:
    6
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    7
    Oh god please don't compare warcraft 3 to real life. In real life if you had an injured soldier/malfunctioning equipment, they wouldn't be deployed. If a soldier was injured in the field they would leave the battle.

    And the right click is just a hotkey morons. Stop arguing such a stupid point.

    And don't base anything off of AI, this map isn't melee, and the AI plays the melee like retards anyways.
     
  16. I3lackDeath

    I3lackDeath

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2009
    Messages:
    1,314
    Resources:
    16
    Models:
    1
    Icons:
    10
    Skins:
    5
    Resources:
    16
    Would you mind to stop this shittalk or atleast move it to visitor's messages?
    You are spamming my news folder and I don't want to un-subscribe this thread incase some USEFUL updates are at hand. Ò_ó
     
  17. Chucky

    Chucky

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
    Messages:
    584
    Resources:
    9
    Icons:
    9
    Resources:
    9
    Is this map every going to be ready ? In this rate nobody will even play it cause people will have forgoten about Wc3.
     
  18. Luorax

    Luorax

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,301
    Resources:
    1
    Maps:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    Yes, it is. A few more icons and 2 effects for the current 20 heroes, and I have 4 hero concepts finished already. Once these two effects are finished, I'll start making the new heroes and their new effects, while Fjury is making those icons (unfortunately CR couldn't help us out this time to catch up with ourselves).
     
  19. Champara Bros

    Champara Bros

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2008
    Messages:
    270
    Resources:
    44
    Models:
    43
    Packs:
    1
    Resources:
    44
    I agree warcraft is not like the real life. But some facts remain. There is gravity in warcraft as well as treason. I myself kill my units in warcraft but I am not supposed to be able to. That being said I would also like to mention that last water knight reply was only polite post he made. Also if someone does not like the project, then why comment on it. Especially if you will insult the creator. We spend a lot of time developing this thing, and it is hard since we have lives. So thanks to everyone who are interested in developing it, and helping us develop it.
     
  20. Fjury

    Fjury

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2010
    Messages:
    315
    Resources:
    8
    Icons:
    8
    Resources:
    8
    It is already settled that you can't deny your creeps, so please continue the discussion in a new thread instead of here. :>

    So, let's continue talking about with something else.

    I'll soon be home to continue working on the icons. :D