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[AoS] Invasion in Duskwood

Discussion in 'Map Development' started by Luorax, Aug 30, 2011.

  1. Zack1996

    Zack1996

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    Something about the terrain really bugs me. From some of the screenshots, it feels like there's just too many things placed on the map to make it more vibrant. Unfortunately, it doesn't serve a very practical purpose and may be pretty detrimental to what you want to achieve- an aggressive game.

    Since you're pretty familiar with LoL, I'll go through some of the things that I feel they did right in that regard.

    Firstly, the terrain is simple and not attention grabbing. At this point, it feels like the terrain, spell effects and doodads are more prominent than the heroes themselves. What I immediately noticed when I clicked on that screenshot were the two huge green clusters of posion gas (?) and the random greenery. It makes it very difficult to focus on what is actually going on in a fight, especially when the fight is mainly focused on spamming spells.

    Secondly, the color scheme of the heroes and his/her spells are intuitive. While I don't necessarily enjoy it when the heroes colored the same as their spells, I find myself pretty annoyed by the current coloring. I get that the hero's a Doom thing so why must the spells be of a contrasting color? In LoL, it made quite a lot of sense when it came down to who was casting what because the champions and their spells shared similar color schemes.

    I like the systems you have tried to implement. They look nice and useful.

    Do work on some of the item icons, many look too complicated and messy to blend in properly with the normal Warcraft III icons and even with one another. Keep them clean and simple with enough details to distinguish one from another.

    Finally, 6 spells are a little tough to work with. I'm not sure how you're managing now but I wish you luck in future developments; it's only going to get tougher. I'll look forward to this.
     
  2. WaterKnight

    WaterKnight

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    There is not much of gravity in wc3. It's not that I dislike the project in general but precisely because there are drawbacks and it does not seem to founder on the technical skill or effort, I feel the need to pick on your sense of honor and enlarge your view.

    "Also if someone does not like the project, then why comment on it."

    To gain greater and unique projects. Likewise, I also questioned why so many on this site try to do an ORPG that you can see from the first post get a highly 08/15 shape, therefore hardly contain personal input.

    My opinion is that posts only going "hooray" are spam. You can get much more out of critical but factual voices. That is if you really accept them.

    #

    5+1 from the screenshots and 1 out of the 5 is passive. That is not much for an AoS where you only control one hero but the spells. So the fitting question: Does the player have to control more entities and stuff unlike LoL demands it? What about summons and their movements/actions?
     
  3. Drunken_Jackal

    Drunken_Jackal

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    Well you guys should take this to the VM/PMs.

    Also, WaterKnight gives constructive criticism in my point of view.
    So, you guys should also accept it.

    Besides, you are aiming the approval of the masses, and WaterKnight is part of the masses.
     
  4. Luorax

    Luorax

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    That's just the Last Alliance base - it has a lot of things for sure. There are like 2 more similar spots on the map, but that's all - the rest of the map is kept simple; as you said it yourself, it shouldn't be attention-grabbing and should not make it hard to see what's going on.

    You're talking about Doombot, right? Well, he uses Fel-Fire to burn down things, and even the oil that the machine can launch to the ground (what you can see on the ground - slows units standing on it, makes them unable to dodge attacks, and can be ignited by the E spell)
    Snodhar uses mostly black effects, but I thought black/grey icons would be horrible - so we made the set bright purple.

    I've added more complicated and better looking icons for high-tier items on purpose - while Tier 1-2 item icons are supposed to be simple, and usually original WC3 icons, I wanted to add some fancy and good-looking icons for those high-level and strong items.

    There're only 5 spells per hero (usually). 4 active spells (Q-W-E-R) and the passive one (F) (in some cases you can use this spell too - for example, to change your polarity). That book there switches the game multiboard to statboard, and vica versa.

    There are not many of them at the moment. There's a spell that summons a tentacle - it can't move or attack, but spreads its spells frequently to closer targets. There's another spell, that summons two Fel Stalkers - they can't be controlled either, however they'll always stay close to you and will attack the target you're attacking. They will just follow you and attack nothing normally, attacking an enemy hero under the tower would pull agroo, which sucks.
    I personally don't intend to add any more spells that summon anything. Those spawns are just boring as hell to play with - I mean where's the fun in summoning some shits and having lunch while those companions own the hell out of everyone?
     
  5. WaterKnight

    WaterKnight

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    They should not own the hell out of everyone on their own but be used for diversification and combos. Whether you can eat lunch meanwhile depends on how you balance them and require skill controlling them + hero. There are a lot of different types of summons and hybrid forms.
     
  6. Luorax

    Luorax

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    True, that's why we have a few of them. But it must be a really epic hero concept (for example: Orianna in LoL; but the ball isn't a real spawn tho) for me to add more spawned units.
     
  7. WaterKnight

    WaterKnight

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    Yes, LoL has some hybrid forms and shows different types like ball of Orianna, traps from Nidalee, Teemo and Caitlyn, timed area effects like Anivia's ulti, Cassiopeia, Gangplank, Veigar, Gragas, Swain, Lux, ..., Malzahar, he also has a more unit-like one, Annie, Maokai, special unit buffs like Mordekaiser, Zilean. It does not have to be a real unit that you can order freely around but some effects that last for a duration on some area or function independently to create some combos with are nice.
     
  8. Luorax

    Luorax

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    Those things are cool for sure (Anub'Theran can lay down invisible traps too, the first unit that steps on it will take damage and the parasite will reveal it for a few seconds) - I'll try to implement more of them later on. Or well, even Yorick is quite fun - but those Heimerdinger turrets and brushcamper AP Shacos...
     
  9. WaterKnight

    WaterKnight

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    The boxes are too stackable. The main problem of Heimer's turrets, Teemo's Mushrooms and Shaco's boxes is that they last an infinity. I am not a fan of mass-mana needing summons either like the Beastmaster in Wc3. It's too inflexible. Are there instant refilling health/mana potions?
     
  10. Luorax

    Luorax

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    Nope - health and mana potions restore 1,5% of your maximum health/mana every second for 15 seconds. Getting attacked will not cancel this effect - I personally found it really annoying in DotA that you actually had to go and hide for like 10 seconds to get some health back, plus, by doing this you could get a huge amount of health back. This way, potions are not as strong early game but won't become completely useless later on.

    I'm also thinking of adding battle-elixirs. You can consume one, and you can get a significant boost for a few seconds. I'd also add an item (I think it would be a pair of boots, so that it'd be useful for any hero, no matter which role it fills in), that would serve as a spell book, but for consumables (potions, wards, battle elixirs). I just don't know what these elixirs should grant.

    And actually I'm not a LoL fanboy - I don't even play LoL nowadays. It's simply that a lot of things that LoL have done are those things that I'd have done myself (like potions, low cooldowns with high regen, no STR/AGI/INT stats, and so forth). There're certain things in LoL that I don't like either. Of course that's also true that a few things got inspired by LoL, I never said there aren't.
     
  11. Jazztastic

    Jazztastic

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    I personally find it more annoying when potions are combat usable because it allows players to avoid ganks. There was a very specific reason that Icefrog made potions non-instant and non-combat. It's the same reason he changed the Heart of Tarrasques regen from static hp/sec to % based when out of combat for 8 seconds. Maybe it really works for you map, we won't know until a beta is released. But you should seriously alpha test a bunch. I'd suggest alpha testing with and without combat potions.
     
  12. Luorax

    Luorax

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    No, WC3 built-in potions work like that - knowing DotA, I'm pretty sure they work like that because the WC3 ones do so.
     
  13. Jazztastic

    Jazztastic

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    Instead of being a dick to a popular game because you don't like it, you could actually read the suggestions I made and take them into account. And there is a lot of thought put into every little thing in DotA, so please don't just hate on the game.
     
  14. Luorax

    Luorax

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    It'd be much easier for me to fulfill your request if you had asked me to fly. But okay, let's say for a second you're right; then what's the purpose of "GYLZ" and similar key-bindings? Or did IceFrog want to make the game playable for octopuses too? It's the easiest thing of the world to create a QWER key-binding - how can you say that he's lazy to change the binding, but not lazy to code HoT items (because it's made in GUI - coding similar periodic stuffs in GUI ain't easy), when he can just be poor and use the built-in potion?

    Call me childish, or anything you want, but I wouldn't stop hating that thing even if I had to be staring at a barrel.

    I think I'll give a try to the flat amount based potions tho'; you can get a lot of regen from items, those potions may be too strong later in the game.

    I'm also just about to add a function that will be quite welcomed in my opinion: after buying an item, you ave 20 seconds to sell it back for its original cost. After that, you'll only get 75% of this amount back. Mislclicking and buying the wrong item is frustrating, especially here, since you can get the item just by clicking on it.
     
  15. Tom_Kazansky

    Tom_Kazansky

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    cool! :thumbs_up:
    sometime I did misclick and got the wrong item, :goblin_boom:
     
  16. FatalBlade

    FatalBlade

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    Very interesting AoS. Love the systems, love the spells, love the healthbars. I loved the new systems of stats. The item-craft system is nice, but I think its too difficult for an ordinary player to understand.

    And try to make it less similar to DoTA, at least the terrain. You know, the genre of DoTA is AoS, not AoS is the genre of DoTA. :)
     
  17. Luorax

    Luorax

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    Well, the shop system is very, very easy to use and understand; it's an advanced version of the old recipe system that 90% of AoS maps use. It's easier to use it, because you don't have to go ninja-mode with items; if you have enough gold, you can easily buy the item simply by clicking on it. The Tiers only show the level of the items (Tier 1: reagents, Tier 2: recipes, but also reagents for higher-tier items, Tier 3: strong magical items/weapons, Tier 4: antique magical items blessed with vast magic power & rare weapons. The key items for any role)

    Well, the terrain - it's not really like the DotA in my opinion. I'm a real fan fof the traditional triple lane map setup (top-mid-bot) and Ashenvale & Felwood are my favoruite tilesets (all my other WC3 test maps are made in Ashenvale so I thought of making this one Felwood for fun). The buldings, creeps, and even the doodads & jungle differs from DotA - if there's someone who's not trying to copy DotA, then it's me, believe me :)
     
  18. Luorax

    Luorax

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    Invasion in Duskwood Alpha v0.85:

    New Content:
    • [CORE] The total slow factor on a unit now caps at 80%.
    • [CORE] The tooltips and background stories are now displayed properly on the hero selection board.
    • [CORE] The health bar's colour no longer depends on alliance, but on sides; green bar for Last Alliance and red one for Fel Force players.
    • [CORE] You may now move items in your hero's inventory. Note that it only visually resets the CD timer, cooldowns remain untouched.
    • [CORE] The untargetable Voidwalker has been replaced with Succubus.
    • [CORE] CC duration modification now also stacks multiplicatively.
    • [ITEM] Void Cloak Rework: after activation, for 2 seconds, offensive spells are blocked.
    • [ITEM] 7 new compounds in the "Consumables" category.
    • [ITEM] Dragonbone Bow's recipe has been changed.
    • [ITEM] Bloodsteel Armor no longer stacks with Gan'arg Battle Implant.
    • [ITEM] Radiating Light now applies a debuff to the healed targets, rendering them immune to its effect for 30 seconds.
    • [HERO] Xirris' Mana Break may now be cast on minions and creeps as well.
    • [HERO] Xirris' Mana Stalkers may now extend the 522 Movement Speed cap and will attack towers as well.
    • [HERO] Damage over time effects no longer deal damage on application.
    • [HERO] The tooltip of Quoyochakee's Dream Funnel has been cleared and its numbers have been changed.
    • [HERO] Activating Tidalus' ultimate will set the deactive spell on a 1 second cooldown.
    • [HERO] The cast time from Quoyochakee's Crystal Shield has been removed.
    • [HERO] Sirion's spell casts no longer grant him Radiance points.
    • [HERO] Lots of balance changes.
    • [HERO] Raz'Jalr has been reworked.
    • [HERO] Scneer's "Into the Nether" has been finished.
    • [HERO] New hero: "Tock, the Time-Lost Corruptor"

    Bug Fixes:
    • [CORE] Fixed the Attack Speed formula.
    • [CORE] Percentage stats (AD/AP/Armor/Resistance) now work again.
    • [CORE] Fixed a bug where damages that didn't exceed 3 were ignored.
    • [CORE] Jungle creep will no longer turn on you when they're spawned or when they retreat.
    • [CORE] Fixed a bug where certain spells would cause a double free bug, messing up the spell system, leading to weird behaviour of spells.
    • [CORE] Fixed the tower lines and the spots where minions are spawned.
    • [HERO] Removed the debug text from Glacion's Frigid Blast
    • [HERO] Fixed a bug where Draku'Jin's Morph would not transform its target (only visual).
    • [HERO] Fixed a bug where Nessara's Demonic Precision's damage would not be based on the damage dealt, but her base damage.
    • [HERO] Fixed a bug where Jainar's passive would make him immune to Crowd Control effects.
    • [HERO] Fixed a bug where Jainar's Raging Whirld would last longer than intended.
    • [HERO] Fixed a bug where Jainar's Ruthless Swipe would break the spell system, making spells not work.
    • [HERO] Fixed a bug where the duration of Jainar's Giant Strike's disarm would be constantly 3 instead of scaling with level.
    • [HERO] Fixed a bug where you could stack bonuses from Xirris' Mana Stalkers.
    • [HERO] Fixed a bug where Sirion's Imbue Armor would not reflect timed projectiles properly.
    • [HERO] Fixed a bug where Sirion's resource bar would remain orange if he died with 5 or more Radiance points.
    • [HERO] Fixed a bug where Snodhar's Fearful Strikes did not have an inner cooldown.
    • [HERO] Fixed a bug where Snodhar's Stalk would cause him to respawn without a model if he died while Stalking.
    • [HERO] Fixed a bug where Snodhar's Shadow Smoke would deal damage once again even if he died.
    • [HERO] Fixed a bug where Zaraxxus' Internal Instability buff would not grant enough AP.
    • [ITEM] Fixed a bug where Chestplate of Triumph would not store damage taken properly.
    • [ITEM] Fixed a bug where Inscription of Stability would increase kill rewards as well.
    • [ITEM] Fixed a bug where items that extend the duration of DoT effects would not work properly.
    • [ITEM] Fixed a bug where Icebane Axe caused melee attacks to deal more damage than intended.
    • [ITEM] Fixed the tooltip of Leviathan's Shielding; now it correctly states that it builds from Chromatic Dragonscale Cloak, and that it grants Resistance.

    [​IMG]
    Tock, the Time-Lost Corruptor

    "Tick was once the member of the Bronze Dragonflight, this timeless creature now serves Murozond, the Infinite. His purposes are unknown, but the Legion is happy to have him enlisted in its forces, since their invasion got hold up by the desperate alliance of the mortal races. He is responsible for removing the Chrono-mage and Xirris from their timeline, but the results were different than his original plan. The special powers of the targeted mage interfered with the time-rift he created, and caused a massive outburst of alternative realities, which trapped him and limited his abilites, as well as deforming his very being. Once a proud dragon, now a twisted and distorted dragonspawn, he assumed the name "Tock", and began to terminate the timeline that trapped him. To do so, the only thing that he needs to achieve is letting the Burning Legion eliminate the mortal races of Azeroth…"

    [​IMG] Devour Time (Innate) Tock has the unique ability to steal "time" from his opponents and add it to his own.Every time an enemy casts a spell near Tock, they get silenced for a brief period and suffer magic damage. Furthermore, Tock regains a set percent of his maximum mana. Channeled spells do not trigger the silence effect.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] Time Breaker (Q) Tock uses his spear to cut a chaotic rift on the tegument of time and throws a mass made of the energies of Infinity towards the targeted point or unit. The mass deals damage to, and applies a damage over time effect on whoever it hits first, whose damage is increased based on their missing mana. If the target doesn't use mana, a percent of the flat damage is dealt instead. If the target is already affected by the damage over time effect, the missile becomes homing and deals 25% increased damage, but it won't refresh the damage over time effect. If the mass hits an enemy unit or has a target assigned, the spell's cooldown is reduced to 0.5 second.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] Out of Time (W) Tock slowly breaks out of time and space to get advantage over his enemies. He can carry out attacks and move around faster as his connection weakens with space and time.
    Tock gains a buff that increases his attack and movement speed for 3 seconds, which bonuses further grow in this period. Performing a basic attack extends the duration by 1 second, up to a maximum of 6 seconds, in which period the bonuses keep on increasing.
    Additionally, his basic attacks and Time Breaker hits while the buff is active will set a piece of the victim's spirit out of dimension where he can absorb it, causing them to take extra magic damage based on their maximum life and healing Tock for this amount.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] Cosmic Gale (E) Tock summons a powerful anomaly storm around himself that deals damage to every enemy units caught in the effect, and applies a debuff that increases their vulnerability to crowd control effects. The storm damages even the least particles, causing enemy projectiles to be destroyed when it's summoned.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] Fury of the Infinities (Ultimate) Tock calls upon the mighty Infinites to weaken his enemies and those who dare to get close enough to them, helping him and his allies take down those who stand in their way.
    The Infinities strike on the targeted enemy hero, causing them to take damage and lose a percent of their movement speed, which they regain over time as they come round. The bane penetrates through their very body and attaches itself to it, releasing harmful shockwaves around the target before it completely disappears. Enemies near the target take damage equal to the 15% of the spell's damage every second and gain a stacking debuff decreasing their resistance for 4 seconds. The main target is unaffected by this effect of the spell.
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    Raz'jalr, the Faceless Horror

    "Raz’jalr, this faceless creature is one of the most loyal and fanatic followers of the banished Old Gods. He is the herald of their corruption, the tool of their will’s fulfillment. He was ordered to join the forces of the Burning Legion, thus helping his masters plan of breaking free advance. Even his allies fear and respect him, as those who encountered him. Being watched and protected by the Old Gods, those who stand against him, have to face force and madness as they managed to loosen their prison."

    [​IMG] Presence of the Old Gods (Innate) Every step Raz'Jalr takes on the overworld is watched closely by the imprisoned Old Gods, helping him wherever they can. When Raz'Jalr scores a critical hit with his auto-attack, a free Crusher Tentacle is summoned, that deals reduced damage (based on its skill level), and when he dodges an incoming attack, a free Impale is lauched towards the attacker, that deals reduced damage (based on the skill level). Both effects have an inner cooldown, which is independant from one another. Furthermore, his auto-attacks also cause corruption within the target, adding extra magic damage, and mana regeneration to each of his attacks.
    [​IMG] Aid of the Forgotten Ones (Q) Causes your next attack to mark the target, allowing the Old Gods to crush it with ease. After the attack, a Crusher Tantacle emerges, and strikes your enemy once, dealing damage and applying a stun.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] Primordial Sentinel (W) Passive: Raz'Jalr has a spectral perceiving tentacle that grants him improved alertness in combat, increasing his dodge chance.

    Active: Expands the tentacle to monitor the area around him, granting vision over obstacles and increased movement speed, increased by half of his current dodge chance.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] Impale (E) Summons the spear-like tendrils of the Old Gods, that shoots towards your target, dealing damage to enemy land units in a line, and causing a liftoff. Upon landing, the affected units are slowed for a brief period.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] Tentacle Frenzy (Ultimate) Summons the Old God's powers to crush your enemies. They will flood the area around Raz'jalr with their massive tentacles, trashing and crushing everything in their range. Three tentacles will emerge every second, they attack the closest enemy, and then disappear. Consecutive attacks against the same target deal 5% less damage (maximum 50% damage reduction).
    [​IMG]


    ToDo:
    • Remake the terrain from scratch then add in an epic jungle creep.

    Known bugs:
    • Nazzari's Freezing Field's effect is invisible on blighted terrain.

    Also visit http://invasoninduskwood.freeforums.org/ for more information about the map.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 2, 2012
  19. Drunken_Jackal

    Drunken_Jackal

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    Some Errors:
    Hero Selection:
    - Scneer's model doesn't display on the hero selection
    - Its sometimes laggy when switching heroes in the hero selection
    - Laggy when selecting the hero
    - Overall game is laggy

    Suggestions:
    - Infinite time when selecting the heroes
    - I don't fancy the terrain. Dead flat.
    - AI?
    - Camera lock option?
    - Glacions model sucks. Terribly.

    Didn't play much since it was lagging all over.
     
  20. Luorax

    Luorax

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    - The terrain is supposed to be "dead flat". This is an AoS map. We could have made it way more fancy, and shiny, and etc with toby, he's a great terrainer and we had time for it too; but as I said, I wanted to keep it simple.

    - Scneer's model: well yea, that was a last minute model fix. The original model did not have a chest attachment point, and the overhead was bad too. Well, it looks like I didn't notice that I renamed the old one when I imported it, so after the fix, it had a different name. It's fixed now.

    - The hero selection lag comes from the not-preloaded units. You won't notice any lag at all when you click on a hero that you've clicked on already. I can preload them at the map init, but that'll increase the loading time.

    - I'm not really concerned about the hero models. Everyone who's seen the map was perfectly fine with the Glacion model, including me. I personally have to take more things into consideration when importing a model; there's a better looking model that I was thinking of, but it's 4 times bigger.

    - The map being laggy overall: well, I have 65 FPS constantly. I had plans on reducing it by changing the StatBoard code; right now it's updated periodically, however, I'll update the bonus system to update the given stat when that bonus is modified. I'm not quite sure if that'll help tho'; the map is trigger-heavy and relies on a lot of periodic stuff, I can't really do too much without taking away something. But I'll see what I can do.

    - Camera lock? This is an AoS, I hope you remember. I'd say be pleased for not having this option, so that you won't play with players who have locked camera ever.
    I'll fill up the last spot in the shop menu with an "Options" button, where you'll be able to change the camera distance, for example. I might add a lock camera option with the options menu.

    - AI: that's the last thing on my priority list. I've also never done something similar, I personally don't want to waste my time on it yet.