A New Power In Lordaeron

[raypack]

Any critique is more than welcomed on the map, and I can provide detailed description of my decisions for this map if anyone is interested in knowing!

 

[Lordul Dracula]

Hi I tested your map and I found some bugs

Spoiler: Icon

When you add new icons you need to add the following script:
Ex:
ReplaceableTextures\CommandButtons\BTNBattlePriest.blp
ReplaceableTextures\CommandButtonsDisabled\BTNBattlePriest.blp

Spoiler: Sacrificial Pit

Well this building is pretty useless because you can't sacrifice Workers

Spoiler: Ghoul

The ghoul is pretty useless because he can no longer gather lumber anymore.

Spoiler: Hotkeys in the description

I don't understand why you added the hotkeys in the description.

Well this is all for now

 

[raypack]

Hello, thanks for testing.
1- I will look into it, thanks!
2- It is needed for the Boneyard, so the player will need extra time to get to train Frost Wyrms.
3- Yes, good point. I will probably make them cheaper and cost 1 food instead of 2.
4- I know but for custom units/spells etc... I don't know how to make it appear in the name of the unit, to make the hotkey letter yellow color. So I came up with this.

Thanks for testing it out and hope you had fun!

 

[raypack]

Issues fixed now, thanks to Lordul Dracula

 

[Xetanth87]

Ex:
ReplaceableTextures\CommandButtons\BTNBattlePriest.blp
ReplaceableTextures\CommandButtonsDisabled\BTNBattlePriest.blp

For this one, the BTNBattlePriest.blp can have any path, so the original path can be kept. Also, the disabled one is:
ReplaceableTextures\CommandButtonsDisabled\DISBTNBattlePriest.blp (with DIS in the file name, not just BTN).

 

[Rlciu]

I personally don't like the gameplay... The mao feels almost the same with the exception of a few bases added... Also, I don't understand the Human hero...
He doesn't start with a base... And I honestly haven't used it at all. After 20-30 min all human bases were wiped out. Also, I don't know if is just me but units feel weaker than the normal undead units... Ghouls are useless, you can't un summon building... I think you wanted to create maybe a harder version of the map. But it needs much more polish I think and some balance. Too many units on the map. And even likewise there were not that many humans left in Lordaeron at that time. When I joined it felt more like the human are trying to take the capital city back. The map is huge and outside of the difficulty, it doesn't offer much. There are some things I like tho... An extra-base separately for varimathas...Maybe having a base for the red dread lord and the humans being AI? and doing their own thing. Maybe if you expanded the map add some optional quest to help with the difficulty. Idk. those are a few things I believe about it.

 

[raypack]

Thanks for review, it's greatly appreciated!

My plan for Sylvanas' undead was to make them semi-forsaken, because Sylvanas is not 100% yet Forsaken. using at least 50% of other custom units that I've created.

Humans being wiped out is weird, I did 2-3 play tests and they lost a lot of units but were able to rebuild with ease, without needing the help of Garithos and his small army of humans that you control.
And yes, I wanted to make it a bit hard but I will probably make it easier when I release the campaign (almost finished with it but I will re-visit every single map and make it easier and add some more triggers I think).
About the many humans in Lordaeron etc... I've thought about it and I'm planning to make the Warcraft 3: Reworked project be an alternate (but very similar) reality to what we have in the original Warcraft 3. For example: Varimathras using a lot of demons even after he joins Sylvanas, the many humans and dwarves left in Lordaeron etc...

Finally, I was planning to make Garithos a part of the AI human but I faced an issue: you only had to control Sylvanas which means that you only have to control units in 1 part of the map instead of 2.

Thank you so much again for review!

 

[Rlciu]

Hmm, I understand your points, and yes you. 're right about Silvanas not being full forsaken at that time. But they will call themself Forsaken at the end of that mission which makes me think that is the moment when the Forsaken are actually born, Meanwhile, I was thinking, In the previous two chapters Silvanas slowly build her army by adding Varimathas forces to her own. I can assume that she didn't destroyed all of Detherock forces. Also, she got control over the ogres, murlocs, dogmen and trolls, maybe you can use those to as lorewise they were not killed till wow Vanilla (I am not sure about this entirely)

What do you think about maybe making an Ai human and getting control over Varimathas Forces instead? This way you have both bases of silvanas and Varimathas under your control And you can focus on that, It makes sense lore-wise as Silvanas own now Varimathas). There is plenty of space on the map, but I think there are a bit too many bases. Also, I charmed/Posses the undead units instead of using silvanas units ) As I was a bit unfamiliar with them. I honestly haven't built anything with The human base as it wasn't really worth it. I think you wanted them just for a bit of support and story flavour.

I was thinking of remaking the map myself, to be honest, (I mean making a vs of mine a bit harder and with some other side quests but I work on another campaign I started recently.

I will share some ideas with you here maybe you can use something or it will make you spark your own ideas around it.

So first I was thinking In Having the Human base as it was in the initial campaign with Garithos having access to all races and having some small bases around of dwarfs and humans to help out. and having Varimathas be Ai to with his own forces and base, Silvanas with her base and garithos wich you control (Or not dep to you). I t was some optional quest to rescue the dwarfs, maybe you can create one where you rescue their base instead and they help you in combat and allow you to train dwarves. after that quest. You can also create some sort of System where Garithos summon allies like Kull tiras (Who were outside of war at that time) or Gilneas which was just south of the capital city where the mission take place.

Second I think the units you have chosen for Silvanas are ok but a bit weak compared with Varimathas who has the demons and chaos attack in wc3 is huge dmg..

Third regarding the creps allies Silvanas get's in the first mission, you pretty much still have them lorewise, but were never mentioned outside of that mission called The Dark Lady I think, maybe you can use that idea to something.

If you think this way it will be to easy for the player you can create some sort of Sidequest where Varimathas summon demons as reinforcements for Silvanas .

If you want to maybe you can use The scarlet crusade and The target dawn who basically were created around after Arthas disbanded the Order of The Silver Hand, Ashbringer and stuff I mean there is so much Blizzard hasn't touched and left for us to speculate around it. Plus where is Kel'Thuzad at this time? Wasn't he supposed to defend Lordaeron? In Arthas absence ?

Outside of this Is just a case of testing and getting some balance which take time.. a loot of time.. I like your idea and I would love to see more.

I am currently working on a small project myself, The first time I did something like that I still struggle with learning how to use triggers and how to unbug them) , I have learned a loot in a short time and I hope to be able to come with something nice. I struggle with saving the hero for the next maps I create the triggers for it but doesn't seem to work in the next map, So I am stuck with that for now

 

[raypack]

Hm, you have some good ideas. I am definitely revisiting all maps but especially this one because I like it a lot.
The humans you control are just a tiny army and the units and structures you can build are limited greatly because the rest of the humans is an AI (and dwarves are AI completely).
I think I can also make the AI be able to attack other bases apart from Balnazzar, but also attack his base at the same time but I don't see it as super necessary.

Also I'm planning on making some kind of special ability for Varimathras for this mission with triggers where something super cool happens. It's a secret what it is .
Kel'Thuzad already has 1 custom ability with triggers on mission 1 of the campaign because he only appears once.

Also you are right, it's like Kel'Thuzad doesn't exist in Sylvanas' missions. I'm planning to put him and make him attack Sylvanas and the Humans/Dwarves but also Balnazzar's Forces.

But I might have to make another standalone map for that because for the campaigns I want to make the maps not have more than 12 players so people can play them on earlier patches like 1.21, 1.24, 1.26 etc...

 

[Rlciu]

I see,well I am eagerly awaiting to see it Let me know if I can help

 

[deepstrasz]

"This is another map that I want to share before I release the campaign (which is coming very soon).
The purpose of this is to gather information if people like it, find it too hard/easy etc...

PS: I will most likely delete this bundle shorty after I release the campaign, since (obviously) this map will be in it."

Please don't use the Maps section for tests and feedback. Use Map Development instead but do not spam that place with multiple related threads and try organizing things.

Anyways, a simple edit.

Substandard.

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If you're not satisfied with the review and wish another opinion, contact the other reviewers or use the staff contact:
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[Faqka]

Very similar or even worse than the original campaign with poor gameplay and visual errors on the icons.

 

[Bleeq]

One other tiny little thing, next time could you reformat the images?
If you have windows 10, use resize in the photos app and change format to JPG. That will cut the file size by like 90%. Don't need to touch anything else.
It just makes them load easier (and if we're being really autistic maybe it saves electricity too? lol)

P.S. I'm thinking about a Forsaken campaign that happens after this level. Is that something you're interested in, Raypack?

---
Looking at the pics, I'd prefer Varimathras has Sleep and Vampiric Aura back. You don't get to use a Dreadlord in the Undead campaign otherwise, which was part of what made Varimathras interesting. Plus Sleep is kinda key to the strategy/tactic of the original level. PLEASE don't ever consider removing silence from Sylvy!


Ed: I'd like to point out also, that it seems like you didn't design around the strategy of moving Garithos base to Sylvanas side.

 

[JCarrill0]

2- It is needed for the Boneyard, so the player will need extra time to get to train Frost Wyrms.

A New Power In Lordaeron Created Jan 18, 2022

Version 1.32.10
April 13, 2021
Undead

* Boneyard no longer requires sacrificial pit

I think for balance purposes in your map, this can be adjusted.

 

[raypack]

Well I made it on patch 1.29.2, intended to be played on that specific patch (overall intended to be played on patches that were pre-reforged, basically 1.29.2 and 1.31)

Idk what would happen if you played it on Reforged, I think the map settings will still require a Sacrificial Pit in order to build a Boneyard?

 

[JCarrill0]

Well I made it on patch 1.29.2, intended to be played on that specific patch (overall intended to be played on patches that were pre-reforged, basically 1.29.2 and 1.31)

Idk what would happen if you played it on Reforged, I think the map settings will still require a Sacrificial Pit in order to build a Boneyard?

Also when I tried to train a shade, my game crashes, I'm using the legacy 1.29.2, not Reforged.
As it stands, it's unplayable.

Spoiler: MY REVIEW

Spoiler: Orginal Concept

in the Original Campaign, the player starts with Sylvanas' Forces (blue) & Allied with the Alliance of Lordaeron (Grey)/ Ironforge Dwarves (Light Blue).
The enemy is Balnazzar's Forces (Purple), Dreadlord Insurgents (Red), Dreadlord Insurgents (Yellow), Dreadlord Insurgents (Green), & Dreadlord Loyalists (Orange).

When the game starts, colors are modied to fit the color scheme.
Sylvanas' Forces stay blue, while Alliance of Lordaeron becomes all Light Blue. Varimathras is Red.

Enemy Forces focuses on Balnazzar's Forces (Purple), Red becomes Purple, Yellow becomes Orange, and Green an orange stays their color.
So now when you face the Enemy Forces, you have to deal with Purple as the main base while still getting assaulted by both Orange at Sylvanas Base & Green Assaulting The Alliance of Lordaeron, While Purple attacks both bases.

I'm confused on your concept and trying hard to undertsand all the changes and why they were needed.
(When I open your map in my old editor it crashes. I had to use a newer editor just to open it.)

I see a bunch of new custom models/ai/icons/skins so that's not an issue since i know this is meant to be a fun-map, Just trying to see how all of this fits.

Let me start off by giving 3 positives before I get into my next list.

1. While the units do not make sense to me, I do see why you have certain custom units for Sylvanas' Forces.
2. While this should of been a reward from the "Missing Dwarves" Quest. An entire Dwarven faction looks really cool, I like the units as well.
3. The concept of High Elves...more on this later.

• I will say the Nether Dragon stood out for me. I have no idea why a black dragon from outland got tossed into the mix. I guess the impression is they are Burning legion units? (not ho nether drakes work at all). Nether dragon
• The next units that stood out for me are the hydromancers which were a Kul Tiran unit, not Lordaeron. Hydromancer (Warcraft III)
• I liked the fact you got Kel'Thuzad still serving Arthas, coming to attack everyones base as well, but I'm confused. Kel'Thuzad's Forces, Burning Legion Forces, & Dradlord's Insurgents are all Green! Why doesn't Kel'Thuzad get his own base color?
• While I kinda understand thats Varimathras gets to use Burning Legion Forces. Im just confused since I have yet o see Burning Legion forces attack each other. I'll just take it like 2 burning legion factions trying to dominate another brood for supremacy.
• I noticed while we are locked at the normal food cap at 100, All other factions get 750 food? 7.5× the TFT cap. That's a massive increase; at 750 supply you can field armies and creeps sizes that break typical balance and AI pathing, and will greatly raise CPU and memory use in large skirmishes.
  Raw supply ratio (player side total vs enemy side total):
  • Your side: 100 + 3×750 = 100 + 2250 = 2350 supply.
  • Enemy side: 8×750 + 1×750 = 9×750 = 6750 supply.
  • Overall ratio: 6750 / 2350 ≈ 2.87 → enemies have ~2.9× more total supply.
  Win probability: low to negligible unless allies are coordinated, highly skilled, or enemies are dumb/AI-limited.
• I see a regular Human knight, then a custom Human knight model for us? whats the difference meant for?
• Hydromancer summons a level 1 Water elemental for 250 mana, when the normal archmage level 1 water elemental is only 150 mana, yet resuuection on the Hydromancer is only 200 mana? (Need a balance fix)
• I feel like the Undead Warlock is a unit version of a Blood Mage Hero. different name for spells, but same thing, plus they get charm > Posession.
• I went searching for my Missing Dwarves, hoping to find some nice dwarven re-enforcements. only found more humans, not even worth going out of the way for. (Needs a reason to go for the re-enforcements liek the original quest suggested.
• I see the Map has High Elves, but even after 600/1800 seconds, still no High Elves.
• You moved the Lordaeron Stash? The Flesh Golem/Jacobs Rejects/Lordaeron City Mutants, they are just left out in an open area now....It orginally was apart of the Lordaeron graveyard, which is why they had the Flesh Golem/Zombies/Sludge beasts there, so why just move the units but not the entire area? (needs fixed)
• Shades will crash the game, I can start to train one, but it crahses before it finishes.
• What is sacrafice for? (Assume its left over for acolytes)
• There is 0% chance for getting all 3 bonus Lordaeron City Stash. Making another quest useless.
• The old Hero Abilities is what helped alot in the map. The autocast for Black Arrow, The vamp aura and sleep spells from Varimathras. They are so useful in the orginal map, and would be in more so in this one designed to be harder.
• As if the Sky reining Infernals wasn't enough, Balnazzar's Elite.

over all, 2/5 Stars. It's unplayable due to game crashing bugs, unfavorable odds, and missing/moved content/quests. I do like a challenge, but this is beyond brutal difficulty. I do not like Kobayashi Maru.

but thats... just my opinion.