A Symphony of Frost and Flame (Edited)

deepstrasz · Nov 6, 2023

Sadly, the changes are too simple, workers not requiring food, some new units that aren't really necessary or that different from any other existing ones. If anything, the Death Revenants might prove too overpowered considering regenerative Death Coil + Essence of Blight (Obsidian Statues).
Other than that, a reskinned Mountain King (which doesn't make sense lorewise especially considering the name) and some other reskins for Arthas and Illidan. The first doesn't have hero glow.
There are also some debug messages appearing: AI COP 01 Gained.

Sorry,
Simple.

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Loken Ironwolf · Nov 6, 2023

deepstrasz said:
Sadly, the changes are too simple, workers not requiring food, some new units that aren't really necessary or that different from any other existing ones. If anything, the Death Revenants might prove too overpowered considering regenerative Death Coil + Essence of Blight (Obsidian Statues).
Other than that, a reskinned Mountain King (which doesn't make sense lorewise especially considering the name) and some other reskins for Arthas and Illidan. The first doesn't have hero glow.
There are also some debug messages appearing: AI COP 01 Gained.

Sorry,
Simple.

If you want more reviews, you should participate in the The Grand Review Exchange!

R U L E S

Site Rules
Map Submission Rules

M A P - D E S C R I P T I O N

BB CODES
BB Codes | HIVE

MELEE MAPS
Description Guide - Melee Maps
Describing Your Melee Map
Melee Map Description Generator v1.3

MAPS IN GENERAL
The importance of a Description
Description Guide - Maps
Map Thread Guide
Map Description Making: Good & Bad
Map Description - Templates
Map Description Generator [1.2]

How to Add a Screenshot to your Map Description

ADDITIONAL NECESSARY INFORMATION

A credits list in the map thread description is required where the names of the resource (models, skins, icons, spells, sound etc.) authors are mentioned along with the specific resource. It would be a luxury to have links leading to the used resources. Credits in the Quest Log would be appreciated too.

A detailed changelog in the first post would be helpful to reviewers and notify fans about the newest implementations to your map.

Map thread tags are important. Please use those that fit and not more or none.

M A P - C R E A T I O N - G U I D E S

GENERAL MAPPING
A Beginner's Guide to Map Making
The Ultimate Beginners Terrain Tutorial
Advanced Terraining Tutorial
A Guideline to Terraining and the Hive's Terraining Section
Various Terraining Tips!
Basic Mapping Video Tutorial
WE Map Editor for Newbies!
The Path Of Proper Map Making - What to do and what should be avoided

MELEE MAPPING
How to create Melee Maps
General - Melee Maps like the Professionals
Competitive Melee Map
Melee mapping - The reasons behind common aspects of competitive 1v1 maps
Melee Do's and Dont's

PATHING
Pathing - Everything about it
[Terraining] Alternative Pathing Technique

LEAKS
Triggers - Memory Leaks and Custom Scripts

If you're not satisfied with the review and wish another opinion, contact the other reviewers or use the staff contact:
https://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/staff-contact.692/

It's ok, like i said in the description, this isnt anything mindblowing, nor did i expect this map to be it, just something i made in spare time and thought to share here. Simplicity is bliss, right?

Workers not requiring food thing is something i liked from Legends of Arkain campaign, and it is annoying when your food cap is compromised from ton of workers that need to be saturated for wood and gold, on top of building an army to do mission objectives. For Death Revenants that is true, but Illidan's Royal Guard tend to really put a hurt in your army, and since the only instant healer is Arthas, your army can get easily damaged if not wiped, so they are nice addition in my eyes. That and it gives people a unit to relax with when they go for Vashj' and Kael's base, or obelisks.

For Mountain King, i thought of it as an Alternate Universe, What If thing, where Arthas doesnt just kill Baelgun, but also raises him as undead, hence why you can play with him in map. Btw, he does have a hero glow, you can just barely see it ingame cause he's a small dude. And yea, reskins only isnt that bad, considering those reskins are really awesome, specially Arthas model. As for COP 01 Gained, that one is strange, ill replay map and see what it's about.

Thanks for the review either way

DuneDog · Nov 8, 2023

This feels like a love letter to players who're itching for a new way to enjoy A Symphony of Frost and Flame and I am HERE FOR IT.

Pros.
•The quality of life touches feel so good (no food for labor units + tiny buildings to jumpstart the intro).
•Absolutely prefer the Arthas model on foot vs the horse; the new skins for Illidan + "Ghostbeard" are great too.
•The new unit, Death Revenant, feel like the undead equivalent of the Naga Royal Guard we scarcely get to use and I LOVE them.
•Hidden High-End item shop in some obscure corner of the map is appreciated, as it sucks being at the mercy of drops or starting items.
•And the shipyard is the best addition. I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to go over to Illidan's base and crater him, but no matter how many wyrms I amassed, I could never put a scratch on his island.

Things I'd recommend.
•In both the original mission and this mod, for some reason, when Banshees possess a peasant, they cannot build any of their structures. That'd be an addition that may be appreciated (although, now that the terrain around the obelisks is a lot cleaner, and thus easier to defend with mass towers, this may not be as relevant).
•Now that the player gets the full 100 food for their army, plus other quality of life perks (third hero, new super powerful T3 unit, pet dragons swoops in at 10min, more items, ect) tweaks should be made (or at least considered) for powering up Illidan's forces as well. The 3v1 "uphill" feeling is what makes this mission so memorable, so at the very least, the difficulty should have the option to be turned up to hard/insane AI.

All in all, it delivered on it's goal, and it shreds my dude! Very fun.

Loken Ironwolf · Nov 8, 2023

DuneDog said:
This feels like a love letter to players who're itching for a new way to enjoy A Symphony of Frost and Flame and I am HERE FOR IT.

Pros.
•The quality of life touches feel so good (no food for labor units + tiny buildings to jumpstart the intro).
•Absolutely prefer the Arthas model on foot vs the horse; the new skins for Illidan + "Ghostbeard" are great too.
•The new unit, Death Revenant, feel like the undead equivalent of the Naga Royal Guard we scarcely get to use and I LOVE them.
•Hidden High-End item shop in some obscure corner of the map is appreciated, as it sucks being at the mercy of drops or starting items.
•And the shipyard is the best addition. I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to go over to Illidan's base and crater him, but no matter how many wyrms I amassed, I could never put a scratch on his island.

Things I'd recommend.
•In both the original mission and this mod, for some reason, when Banshees possess a peasant, they cannot build any of their structures. That'd be an add may be appreciated (although, now that the terrain around the altar's is a lot cleaner, and thus easier to defend with mass towers, this may not be as relevant).
•Now that the player gets the full 100 food for their army, plus other quality of life perks (third hero, new super powerful T3 unit, pet dragons swoops in at 10min, more items, ect) tweaks should be made (or at least considered) for powering up Illidan's forces as well. The 3v1 "uphill" feeling is what makes this mission so memorable, so at the very least, the difficulty should have the option to be turned up to hard/insane AI.

All in all, it delivered on it's goal, and it shreds my dude! Very fun.

When you put it that way, it kinda is, even though it wasnt entirely intentional haha

-Yea, i loved that quality of life touch since playing Legends of Arkain campaign, it feels great when your food cap is not compromised from ton of workers that always need to be saturated for gold and lumber. And the tiny buildings addition is i imagined as the quest reward if you do all three Azjol Nerub secondary quests where you collect gold coins.
-Yup, that was kinda the idea behind adding the Death Revenant, especially when you have to fight Illidan's Royal guard that either defend the base or follow him as retinue.
-Right? It's a much more fun option than killing some polar bears just to get hp boost item lol
-Same man, same

The thing is, the Frost Wyrms have light armor and Couatls have piercing damage, which do extra dmg on light armor, which is why there are so many at illidan's main base, cause they snipe those poor wyrms before you can do anything. Especially with the snap dragons having that annoying poison that slows the wyrms movement and attack rate (as if they aren't slow enough with their attacks lol) I had thought at first of adding an Undead Barge to fly over the water and drop your units in base, but having an armada of ships invading Illidan's base seemed like a better and more dramatic option.

-I think that was exactly why they removed the build structures from peasants. One of, if not THE favorite gimmicks with Undead faction is using Banshees to possess workers (lord knows how many times i did that in Monolith map back in the day

), so they can basically get another faction to play with (in this map it would basically be undead, naga and blood elves in one package). Though in this instance i might add the buildings, just as another fun factor. And if that doesnt get a positive feedback, its a simple matter of resetting the workers.
-I'm not exactly an expert with AI editing, but you do have a point, i might have to boost Illidan, Kael and Vashj a bit to compensate for boons players have, and i'll do my best to make hard difficulty live up to its name

Thanks alot for the post and rating, i appreciate it, and ill keep this map updated if there are anymore interesting ideas and suggestions :grin:

Lazarator · Nov 9, 2023

I always wondered where is Saphiron now to help Arthas when I needed him the most, and there he is! This map is a great addition to the original map, with these simple, yet effective changes. It does make the map A LOT easier, though, but it surely gives a finger to the annoying AI, which was very satisfying after it kept ruining my childhood with their constant attacks

I liked Baelgun. At first, I thought it was Muradin, but when I started playing I saw it was actually Baelgun, which surprised me even more! I thought he'd received some newer spells, since he's the undead, though, but no matter. It was fun playing with him, along with Arthas and Anub'arak, nevertheless.
Additional Revenant unit was great as well. Maybe a bit too OP unit, yet a great addition to Naga Royal Guards.
As I mentioned before, I think the map could be even more challenging after increasing its difficulty. Perhaps making AI's attacks more frequent with more units in attack waves? Of course, there is always room for more changes on the map, like adding new stuff that you can think of

Loken Ironwolf · Nov 9, 2023

Lazarator said:
I always wondered where is Saphiron now to help Arthas when I needed him the most, and there he is! This map is a great addition to the original map, with these simple, yet effective changes. It does make the map A LOT easier, though, but it surely gives a finger to the annoying AI, which was very satisfying after it kept ruining my childhood with their constant attacks
I liked Baelgun. At first, I thought it was Muradin, but when I started playing I saw it was actually Baelgun, which surprised me even more! I thought he'd received some newer spells, since he's the undead, though, but no matter. It was fun playing with him, along with Arthas and Anub'arak, nevertheless.
Additional Revenant unit was great as well. Maybe a bit too OP unit, yet a great addition to Naga Royal Guards.
As I mentioned before, I think the map could be even more challenging after increasing its difficulty. Perhaps making AI's attacks more frequent with more units in attack waves? Of course, there is always room for more changes on the map, like adding new stuff that you can think of

Thank you. I always wondered too, last time we see Sapphiron is where he killed some dwarves before Arthas sent him away because he can't go in Azjol Nerub. That part i understood why, it's a subterranean kingdom after all, but i was really disappointed that he just pissed off and never showed up at last mission lol
Yea, he has muradin soundset, so i can understand the confusion

I came up with Baelgun idea as an AU, what if thing, where Arthas raises him as undead so he can be of use against Illidan in final mission. You know, all the help you can get mindset.
Sadly from what i've tried to figure out, i cant change the campaign map difficulties at all, so i will have to edit the default normal mode gameplay into hard mode to compensate for the player boosts.

DuneDog · Nov 19, 2023

Loken Ironwolf said:
When you put it that way, it kinda is, even though it wasnt entirely intentional haha

-Yea, i loved that quality of life touch since playing Legends of Arkain campaign, it feels great when your food cap is not compromised from ton of workers that always need to be saturated for gold and lumber. And the tiny buildings addition is i imagined as the quest reward if you do all three Azjol Nerub secondary quests where you collect gold coins.
-Yup, that was kinda the idea behind adding the Death Revenant, especially when you have to fight Illidan's Royal guard that either defend the base or follow him as retinue.
-Right? It's a much more fun option than killing some polar bears just to get hp boost item lol
-Same man, same The thing is, the Frost Wyrms have light armor and Couatls have piercing damage, which do extra dmg on light armor, which is why there are so many at illidan's main base, cause they snipe those poor wyrms before you can do anything. Especially with the snap dragons having that annoying poison that slows the wyrms movement and attack rate (as if they aren't slow enough with their attacks lol) I had thought at first of adding an Undead Barge to fly over the water and drop your units in base, but having an armada of ships invading Illidan's base seemed like a better and more dramatic option.

-I think that was exactly why they removed the build structures from peasants. One of, if not THE favorite gimmicks with Undead faction is using Banshees to possess workers (lord knows how many times i did that in Monolith map back in the day ), so they can basically get another faction to play with (in this map it would basically be undead, naga and blood elves in one package). Though in this instance i might add the buildings, just as another fun factor. And if that doesnt get a positive feedback, its a simple matter of resetting the workers.
-I'm not exactly an expert with AI editing, but you do have a point, i might have to boost Illidan, Kael and Vashj a bit to compensate for boons players have, and i'll do my best to make hard difficulty live up to its name

Thanks alot for the post and rating, i appreciate it, and ill keep this map updated if there are anymore interesting ideas and suggestions

A quick addendum to my "it should be more challenging to compensate for your new perks" comment-- I've just discovered some maps by someone with the name of Pyraeus and I think you may find they inspire some ideas. The changes this dude makes to campaign maps are insane.

Loken Ironwolf · Nov 19, 2023

DuneDog said:
A quick addendum to my "it should be more challenging to compensate for your new perks" comment-- I've just discovered some maps by someone with the name of Pyraeus and I think you may find they inspire some ideas. The changes this dude makes to campaign maps are insane.

True, but his changes are not exactly to my taste for several reasons. TLDR version is that his maps are mostly tailored for 2 people to play (which i was never a fan of), thus he had to crank up stuff around the map to 11, so it presents a challenge. Besides, some of his ideas are hardly applicable to this particular map, especially since you command a single army. But i might consider ideas like destroying gateways and such from Illidan's side, or some similar idea to make map more interesting.

Thanks for info tho

A Symphony of Frost and Flame (Edited)

A Symphony of Frost and Flame (Map)

deepstrasz

deepstrasz

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Loken Ironwolf

Loken Ironwolf

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DuneDog

DuneDog

Loken Ironwolf

Loken Ironwolf

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Lazarator

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Loken Ironwolf

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DuneDog

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Loken Ironwolf

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