Zombie hordemaster 1.2

[Armelior_is_back]

As always, any feedback is appreciated, especially on the length of the map : does the map feels too long or is it just right ?

 

[Lang]

I will try it

 

[shadowhog]

well I uh used the first ability and ended up there. All I did was use the spell on the first few footman and it sent me up by the river somehow.

Edit: so I tried for like 10 mins to replicate that and I could not get it to tp me again

 

[Armelior_is_back]

How the heck ?
I've seen some trigger-based movement spells get heroes stuck behind trees in custom maps, but getting bombarded half a map away ? That's a first. You're a pioneer

 

[shadowhog]

besides my little adventure to the river it was a fun map. Only issues I encountered was in the city part the enemy was getting healed by the crypt

 

[Armelior_is_back]

It's not really a bug, I just made the crypt heal like a fountain

 

[shadowhog]

It's not really a bug, I just made the crypt heal like a fountain

I figured just stating what I had an issue with. Cause the other areas the enemy never got close enough to get a heal from it

 

[Lang]

well I uh used the first ability and ended up there. All I did was use the spell on the first few footman and it sent me up by the river somehow.

I had similar issues when try on 1.27, but when i test on 1.30 this never happen, it simply blink through behind trees of elf defense.
What i feel when play it's more like, the romero type is like useless, better on spawn magic and tank. On other side, the gameplay feels like using zombies for meat shield meanwhile the hero destory the building, i guest there must be more items on this map, well it's enjoyable for me

 

[Blasterixx]

Hello i gave this map a few tries, here are my thoughts:
I played on the current version of War3 reforged (with classic graphics).

Spoiler: Thoughts

~Negatives/Suggestions


- When a zombie dies his corpse cannot be used to raise skeletons for some reason, it doesnt count as a corpse, it should!

- When a zombie kills a neutral unit or enemy unit that is living and not mechanical IT SHOULD raise it as a zombie basically since thats how zombies work. ( i noticed you had a special type of zm that does that as an upgrade later into the game, but my point still stands, i still think any kind of zombie should raise other zombies when they last hit, you can make that type of upgraded zombies to be able to spawn 2 zombies at a time from last hits maybe? or through infection.)

- We should be able to upgrade the zombie's dmg, armor, attack speed and move speed! maybe each kill can drop some gold, like 1 footman drops 5 gold, 1 rifleman drops 10 and 1 knight drops 25 and so on, and at 100 gold we can upgrade the zombies dmg by 3 dmg and so on, with another 100 gold we can upgrade their attack speed by 5%. It feels like zombies are just too weak overall otherwise, it takes too much time to kill anything, and they also die pretty fast, it gets boring really fast.

- The crypt/circle shouldn't be able to heal the enemy units! that seems kinda dumb, since i got to the night elves and they got 2 mountain giants and lots of bears near my crypt and i couldn't do anything about that, the dmg i was doing to them was being outhealed by my own crypt....

- This goes well to the other point, after i saw i had no chance of killing the elf units near my crypt cuz of the constant healing, i decided to give up on this crypt and fall back to the previous one... well... turns out if you lose even 1 crypt is game over... like wtf? why, that doesn't make any sense.

Losing 1 crypt shouldn't be game over!

- This goes to my final point, i think each crypt should be able to spawn zombies, but the older a crypt is the fewer zombies it would spawn, but those zombies would be much stronger, since the crypt is much older and had time to enhance the zombies, while the newer crypts should spawn more zombies but those zombies are new so they are normal zombies and weak. i think this would make the game more interesting.

- Also about the zombie upgrades from the crypts, i think each crypt should be able to be upgraded individually, so if i have 4 crypts, i upgrade the first one with fast zombies, now that crypt only spawns fast zm, i upgrade the 2nd crypt to spawn only infected zm and so on.

Making the upgrades globally for all crypts seems kinda pointless because u lose the other zm upgrades, having only 1 type of zombie at a time, is pretty bad.

- I feel like you should make it more obvious where the hero can blink as well, since some players can get stuck at the first part of the map, where you have to blink over the water to lower the bridge for the zm.

~Possitives

- Overall i like the concept of the map, it can be pretty fun and has lots of potential!

- i like the evolution items where u can evolve zombies into undead units!

- I liked that you had to use the blink spell of the vampire to get to certain spots on the map, i feel like there should be more secret spots like that, where you can blink there and fight creeps and get gold coins (for the upgrades i was talking about) and even strong items.

 

[Armelior_is_back]

@Lang :​

So that's not a freak bug ? I've never seen it and I play on 1.27.
I was afraid the Romero type was too weak compared to the other ones, I'll try to buff it in some way for future updates. Thanks for the feedback.


@Blasterixx :

-I probably should have zombie be bahaving normal for corpses, you're right, there is no point in limiting the wight/skeleton's raising
-you get 3 armor upgrades (1 for each race) but the point of zombies is to be disposable fodder
-the crypt heal is just me being lazy, I thought the chances of a big group of enemies using it against you was low after making the crypts spawn further from the enemy bases - I'll have to find another healing mechanic
-the cypt game over is explicitly written in the quest log, I was afraid the map would feel too easy if you literally can't lose
-the idea of having different crypts spawn different zombies is interesting but I'm afraid the player will be waiting the older zombies to catch up from the other side of the map a lot instead of staying on the offensive
-I thought seeing a rune on the other side of stuff would automatically remind people of the Maiev campaign where that was often used (especially in my favorite squad map the tomb of Sargeras)
- OTOH is it obvious enough that you should destroy explosive barrels to make way for the zombies in the elf part (especially the 3rd base) ?
-Also did you find the first tree bridge + item across the river north of the sawmill ?
Thanks a lot for the detailed feedback.

 

[micca]

Extremely fun and unigue game, at least for me.

 

[Maxlaid]

It was written on the resource that the map was made in patch 1.27, but it can also work on older ones. I tried to run on the 1.26 patch and immediately the problem. My zombies aren't going anywhere.

 

[Armelior_is_back]

It was written on the resource that the map was made in patch 1.27, but it can also work on older ones. I tried to run on the 1.26 patch and immediately the problem. My zombies aren't going anywhere.

You need to use the rally ability of the crypt to get the zombies to move, as said in the gameplay tips

If you did, then the older patches are incompatible, which is usually how it works with warcraft 3 and I can't do much about it unfortunately.

 

[Maxlaid]

You need to use the rally ability of the crypt to get the zombies to move, as said in the gameplay tips

If you did, then the older patches are incompatible, which is usually how it works with warcraft 3 and I can't do much about it unfortunately.

I didn't do it right away and it didn't work. I restarted the map, immediately bet on the dredlord, and it worked. I can safely play)

 

[Maxlaid]

Finished playing, not quite right. Only the Horde remained. The idea as a whole is commendable, the only thing that did not suit is that next to the cemetery, past your zombies, the enemy is also being treated, and this really interfered against the last base of the elves. The last base of the elves in general turned out to be very nasty, and I had to turn on the cheats. This is a very big request to correct this point.

It would also be nice to have more options for improving troops, perhaps so that it causes more zombies, causes someone else to pass by zombies.

 

[CosmicBard]

So, I've recently played through this map, and I enjoyed it quite a lot.
First, let's go over my positive thoughts/things I liked:

• The concept is very unique and interesting. In terms of core gameplay, there are definitely maps out there that share some similarities with this one, but they all execute on it very differently, which sets them apart quite well.
• The player's hero is both very simple to understand and use, but also has enough nuance in his abilities to not be one dimensional and boring. There are quite a lot of things you can do with MR. Snobby, which makes him a good fit for a hero focused map.
• His kit also fits the style of the map perfectly. Building clearing is something you'll be doing a lot, so naturally, all of his damage abilities can hit buildings. The crypts provide amazing health sustain, but the occasional runes and potions are the only things granting you mana, so now you have a spell that trades health for mana (which can thankfully be toggled on and off during channels too). And the ability to blink past your zombie army and set them on fire are both things that fit the evil hordemaster theme perfectly (after all, zombie commanders aren't known for being very protective, or accepting of being body blocked by their horde).
• The map is very tongue in cheek and self aware, which is neat. Some people might find it annoying, but I honestly don't mind seeing mapmakers having a bit of dumb fun here and there. I've noticed a ton of pop culture references, but that's not too surprising, considering that the Rise of the Lich King remake literally had 1 every map.
• I really liked a lot of the extra mechanics that were added in to help the player. The control ability is neat, the unit upgrading items are neat, and thank goodness for that summon with the Death and Decay. These are all very helpful and fun to use, while none of them even came close to trivializing the map or its difficulty.

Now, for the things I'd like to see changed:

• That bug where the hero randomly ends up in the middle of the map after using Q? Yeah, that happened to me too. I'm assuming that me using a version that is above the recommended could likely be responsible for it, though I can't really confirm that. I have managed to replicate it a couple of times on accident, and I suspect that it happens when you input a movement command during a specific point of the cast animation (though it could be caused by something else, but there's really no way for me to know).
• The fact that only one zombie upgrade can be active at the time is a bit of a weird design choice. There would have been a lot of ways to allow players to spawn multiple types of zombies at the same time, and definitely wouldn't mind it if one of them were to be implemented. Though I can definitely see reasons on why it would be designed this way, and the player can still get a mixed army by shuffling the upgrades, so the agency is still there.
• Someone already mentioned this, but loosing 1 crypt should probably not be game over. I think the zombies should just keep spawning from the previous crypt, while the enemy builds a new base in the area of the destroyed crypt. And if the player can destroy the base, then they can start a slow reconstruction of the destroyed crypt. I know this would be a bit harder to implement, but it would make more sense than what we have now.
• I definitely wouldn't mind it if some of the descriptions were adjusted to be a bit more... well, descriptive. Having funny oversimplified stuff is fine, but maybe having a normal description underneath to inform players about the magic zombies have Death Coil and Cripple as their spells wouldn't hurt.
• Speaking of magic zombies, some balance adjustments here and there really wouldn't hurt.
• It was a smart choice to remove mana regen and reduce the combat stats of the magic zombies, but I still feel like their casting capabilities are way out of line, and their dump AI is the only thing holding them back from singlehandedly obliterating everything. (Could you imagine what would happen if just a single wave would mass cast Death Coil on an enemy hero? Or if they would actually use it on the player?)
• At the other end of the spectrum, we have the romero zombies (or at least I think that's what they were called), which are not really worth using, considering that they only spawn vanilla zombies, and that there aren't really a huge number of enemy units. Letting them spawn special upgraded zombies, or 2 vanilla zombies instead might make them more worthwhile.
• And lastly, I don't want to pressure you or anything, but I'd really like it if this map were to get more stuff in the future. And I'm not saying this because it feels incomplete (because it very much doesn't), but there's still a ton of room left for creative ideas. New zombies, new items, new enemy units, new features, new hordemaster heroes to select from, new secrets... the list just goes on and on. It's completely fine if you want to leave it the way it is, but just know that there is interest out there for new hordemaster stuff.

 

[Armelior_is_back]

• 1 The concept is very unique and interesting. In terms of core gameplay, there are definitely maps out there that share some similarities with this one, but they all execute on it very differently, which sets them apart quite well.
• 2 after all, zombie commanders aren't known for being very protective, or accepting of being body blocked by their horde
• 3 That bug where the hero randomly ends up in the middle of the map after using Q? Yeah, that happened to me too. I'm assuming that me using a version that is above the recommended could likely be responsible for it, though I can't really confirm that. I have managed to replicate it a couple of times on accident, and I suspect that it happens when you input a movement command during a specific point of the cast animation (though it could be caused by something else, but there's really no way for me to know).
• 4 The fact that only one zombie upgrade can be active at the time is a bit of a weird design choice. There would have been a lot of ways to allow players to spawn multiple types of zombies at the same time, and definitely wouldn't mind it if one of them were to be implemented. Though I can definitely see reasons on why it would be designed this way, and the player can still get a mixed army by shuffling the upgrades, so the agency is still there.
• 5 Someone already mentioned this, but loosing 1 crypt should probably not be game over. I think the zombies should just keep spawning from the previous crypt, while the enemy builds a new base in the area of the destroyed crypt. And if the player can destroy the base, then they can start a slow reconstruction of the destroyed crypt. I know this would be a bit harder to implement, but it would make more sense than what we have now.
• 6 I definitely wouldn't mind it if some of the descriptions were adjusted to be a bit more... well, descriptive. Having funny oversimplified stuff is fine, but maybe having a normal description underneath to inform players about the magic zombies have Death Coil and Cripple as their spells wouldn't hurt.
• 7 Speaking of magic zombies, some balance adjustments here and there really wouldn't hurt.
• 8 It was a smart choice to remove mana regen and reduce the combat stats of the magic zombies, but I still feel like their casting capabilities are way out of line, and their dump AI is the only thing holding them back from singlehandedly obliterating everything. (Could you imagine what would happen if just a single wave would mass cast Death Coil on an enemy hero? Or if they would actually use it on the player?)
• 9 At the other end of the spectrum, we have the romero zombies (or at least I think that's what they were called), which are not really worth using, considering that they only spawn vanilla zombies, and that there aren't really a huge number of enemy units. Letting them spawn special upgraded zombies, or 2 vanilla zombies instead might make them more worthwhile.
• 10 And lastly, I don't want to pressure you or anything, but I'd really like it if this map were to get more stuff in the future. And I'm not saying this because it feels incomplete (because it very much doesn't), but there's still a ton of room left for creative ideas. New zombies, new items, new enemy units, new features, new hordemaster heroes to select from, new secrets... the list just goes on and on. It's completely fine if you want to leave it the way it is, but just know that there is interest out there for new hordemaster stuff.

1/ good to know, I'm not much of a player of custom maps outside of campaigns
2/ exactly : zombies are disposable and personally I can't/don't bother keep my controlled units alive except crypt fiends and abom at the end
3/ I hope I will be able to replicate the bug if it's really when you try to move, otherwise I won't be able to fix it
4&5/ I'm thinking of having 2 crypts active/ 2 different zombies waves - having the enemy rebuild would make for a pretty different map (and lots more work )
- but is it ok to have a map where game over is next to impossible ? I don't need for a map to be challenging to have fun but I suppose most players of custom stuff do ?
6/ when you pick an upgrade, don't you have : a description, then in yellow the effect of fire if any, then the funny simplified version ? that's how it's supposed to be
7&8/ magic zombies are definitely very powerful (and needed against the OP bloodlust of orcs IMO) but they're not good at damage in melee ; maybe I should also make them more fragile ?
9/ I know they need to be buffed, having 2 zombies spawn is a good idea
10/ maybe I'll add stuff like that later, if I find new ideas. A new hero would be cool but it's hard to find 4/5 new abilities that don't upset the balance of the map and are different enough

Also did you have any trouble with the last elven base ? I put 3 bridges you can create but the pathfinding can still get frustrating because the bridges doodads have some parts you can't cross for some reason - or any other parts for that matter ? Except the entrance of the 2nd orc base, which is obviously intended to be a meatgrinder.


Thank you so much for the feedback. Since several players gave the same points I have a better view of what is needed for the next update and can start working on it.

 

[micca]

Yes, that bug happened to me too when I right clicked = issued move command to the hero right after I casted the spell.

 

[deepstrasz]

1. Would be nice to convert villagers and Peasants to zombies or some sort of creatures like Shades, I dunno.
2. Since upgrades don't cost anything, it's weird that you have to click on them instead of them being researched automatically unless, it's meant to be a challenge to play without them. OK, you can only choose one. It's neat though as you can switch between various groups since the existing ones don't convert.
3. There's a Human Shipyard with a Transport Ship to be bought but you don't have the funds for it.
4. Damn, was teleported near water in the middle of the map after I used the spell in the Mountain King's base. Teleported back thankfully after many uses of the spell, step by step.
5. The Crypt also regenerates enemies. 1v1 your hero with a Knight, no one wins. Once more units get there like the Paladin for instance, it can be pretty much game over.
6. There's an issue with the gate towards the Paladin's base that it can only be attacked from inside the base. Used the Spiked Collar Fel Stalker to attack it from the front.
7. Really need to fix that teleportation spell for it has quite the chance to teleport you towards the middle of the map...
8. Would be nice to get a bonus if you destroy all civilian/city buildings. Funny, that the zombies attack the neutral ones but not the dark green ones that are enemies.
9. I suggest making Circles of Power have the Locust ability so you can't select them. It's annoying to pick items when they are on the circles now.
10. There's a lot of Spider items instead of potions towards the end that may become useless and put you in danger when the enemy units close in to the Graveyard.
11. I feel you have to rely too much on the Ultimate Summon and repeat the same weak zombie waves. Most of them are not useful. The faster ones are best because they can catch up from a distance with their current battling groups. Of course, you could always just stack and attack afterwards.
12. Would be nice to have a sort of spawn cooldown to know when to change the spawn type if wanted/needed. Also, would be good to know when the zombie cap is reached.
13. I think the Magic Zombies should be able to attack air units since there's no air counter but Crypt Fiends and the Silk Broaches. Well, and the Skeleton Magi.

A lovely concept, much like a reverse Twilight of the Gods.

Approved.

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[Armelior_is_back]

1. Would be nice to convert villagers and Peasants to zombies or some sort of creatures like Shades, I dunno.
2. Since upgrades don't cost anything, it's weird that you have to click on them instead of them being researched automatically unless, it's meant to be a challenge to play without them. OK, you can only choose one. It's neat though as you can switch between various groups since the existing ones don't convert.
3. There's a Human Shipyard with a Transport Ship to be bought but you don't have the funds for it.
4. Damn, was teleported near water in the middle of the map after I used the spell in the Mountain King's base. Teleported back thankfully after many uses of the spell, step by step.
5. The Crypt also regenerates enemies. 1v1 your hero with a Knight, no one wins. Once more units get there like the Paladin for instance, it can be pretty much game over.
6. There's an issue with the gate towards the Paladin's base that it can only be attacked from inside the base. Used the Spiked Collar Fel Stalker to attack it from the front.
7. Really need to fix that teleportation spell for it has quite the chance to teleport you towards the middle of the map...
8. Would be nice to get a bonus if you destroy all civilian/city buildings. Funny, that the zombies attack the neutral ones but not the dark green ones that are enemies.
9. I suggest making Circles of Power have the Locust ability so you can't select them. It's annoying to pick items when they are on the circles now.
10. There's a lot of Spider items instead of potions towards the end that may become useless and put you in danger when the enemy units close in to the Graveyard.
11. I feel you have to rely too much on the Ultimate Summon and repeat the same weak zombie waves. Most of them are not useful. The faster ones are best because they can catch up from a distance with their current battling groups. Of course, you could always just stack and attack afterwards.
12. Would be nice to have a sort of spawn cooldown to know when to change the spawn type if wanted/needed. Also, would be good to know when the zombie cap is reached.
13. I think the Magic Zombies should be able to attack air units since there's no air counter but Crypt Fiends and the Silk Broaches. Well, and the Skeleton Magi.

A lovely concept, much like a reverse Twilight of the Gods.

1. that would be a different concept for a map, but that's kinda the idea of the romero upgrade in a more limited fashion
2. playing with only the vanilla zombies would be hard but probably boring
3. forgot to make it unusable, oops
4. and 7. with the other feedback, now I understand the bug : Warcraft panics if you have a trigger teleporting a unit controlled by the player while he gave an order so it teleports the unit at the center of the map, good to know for future spells - I hope it won't be too hard to fix
5. I'll make it heal only undead
6. I don't understand, you're talking about the gate that opens in the cutscene ? it's invincible before that
8. I wanted the zombies to attack everything in their path, even if there's no point for the player - OTOH I want the player to decide whether to create shortcuts or not
9. good idea, I hadn't thought of that
10. better too many than not enough, but why do they put you in danger ? Or you mean having less health potions ? You're higher level and the difficulty is supposed to increase
11. I think the zombies are pretty useful, especially the sick and magic types and when I play I change types quite often, but you could instead make your own small army of crypt fiends and ghouls with the control spell I guess
12. I could put a counter - the zombie cap is 3/4 waves depending on upgrade type I think, it's there to prevent exploiting (or crashing if you go afk one hour ) more than to be a real gameplay mechanic to use
13. it would be cool to have the vanilla AI to prioritize shooting flying units with Death coil... but they're still zombies, IQ-wise More seriously, I want the player to have to deal with flyers with spells/item/turning zombies into fiends - I don't want the zombies to win by themselves

Thanks for the feedback and approval

 

[deepstrasz]

6. I don't understand, you're talking about the gate that opens in the cutscene ? it's invincible before that

No, during gameplay. I just couldn't destroy it with the dreadlord from the front only with the Fel Stalker. The dreadlord wanted to attack it from behind. The exact gate in front of the Paladin's base that's on a ramp.

 

[Armelior_is_back]

Oh. You can't get the fel stalker at this time, that's why I was confused. It's strange, I don't have trouble to kill the gate with the hero, except if too many zombies block the way
I even put a visibility on it since it's on the ramp and your hero can't see it easily otherwise

 

[Armelior_is_back]

Updated with bug fixes & some rebalancing and :
-5 new secrets to find
-2 new zombie types (1 new, 1 old split into 2)
-you can now have 2 different upgraded zombie spawns at the same time

 

[soul phantom knight]

I LIKE this map，hope more people can play this map

 

[soul phantom knight]

I very need you permission，If you say “of crouse” I would be grateful！

 

[fantocan]

Very cool concept, but the rally point stopped working after the third crypt, and it was very weird from the second on, only fully worked in the first one.

 

[Armelior_is_back]

you need to use the rally of the current crypt, not the first one: it doesn't work if you put the 1st crypt in a control group ate the start, but the "hero" icon is updated each time

 

[Armelior_is_back]

New update : rebalanced the hero abilities so he is more powerful at the start and they are (hopefully) all equally as useful

 

[AlanSpirand]

Cool romantical map with a zombie apocalypse twist. My only complaint would be how it sometimes felt more of a rain-of-fire master since this ability (along with wights) are the ones responsible for breaking the majority of enemy bases, which may become a bit repetitive towards the end.

 

[FeelMyRash]

I downloaded this map awhile ago intending to play it but got distracted and accidently forgot all about it. I just started it now and I'm really enjoying it so far. It's a very interesting map and I've personally never seen its like before.

I'll probably update this with any bug reports or suggestions once I'm done with it. But this is definetly a top class map so far imo.

Edit: Just finished the map (only died once) and I appreciated the happy ending. Always nice to see villains that with hearts of gold behind their genocidal ribcages

This map was definetly worthy of five stars.

 

[nv4]

Funny map, cool idea, but felt like the end result is not what it tried to be.
I mean, the impression I got is that it's supposed to be about utilizing zombies to do most of the work, however I ended up doing majority of the work with Zacchary's spells. And zombies felt more like a meat wall with a little bit of occasional damage. Actually, zombies did most of the work initially, up to the point where I lowered the bridge. And after that their comparative damage output kept getting lower and lower, with final orc base (especially the units) being almost entirely cleared via Zacchary's spells.
Now don't get me wrong, zombies are useful beyond tanking damage - I was actually managing the different types trying to keep a good mix of all types, and it did yield certain benefits. But their damage output is lacking. Sure, a bunch of zombies with magic attack type can dish out some good damage against heavy armor type units, but a couple bloodlusted taurens will obliterate way more zombies way faster.

The terrain is very nice. And the use of explosive barells is pretty cool.

Regarding the balance of Zacchary's spells - upgrading No pain no gain (E) is actually counterbeneficial. The mana/health ratio is 2 / 1.67 / 1.5 respective to spell level. So you gain less mana per point of health at the cost of gaining mana faster, but there's no need for that high mana regen. In fact, even with lvl 1 spell I was running out of health faster than out of mana.
Also I didn't feel the need be able to control some units - they're too weak to make a noticeable difference and I'd rather put effort in microing Zacchary instead of meddling with a bunch of units.
Other skills are fine and balanced well.

Also, secrets are really secretive. Found only 3 out of 7, then checked the map with iseedeadpeople and found just 2 more (Book of Health and Gloves of Haste). Although I suspect some secret was not accounted for in the final score. I found Staff of Negation, Blades of Attack +6, Book of Agility+2 and whatever was at the murlocs, so that should be 4 I think.

 

[Armelior_is_back]

Thanks for the feedback.
-the zombies (except on fire) are primarily meatshields to tie up defenders while you do damage to buildings since warcraft3 ally AI will ALWAYS focus units, even when the towers are more dangerous - stupid AI is good zombie AI
-I must play way more aggressively than you, I usually use No pain no gain a lot and sometimes retreat to heal at the crypt because I always never just autoattack with the hero
I also die a lot because I'm not paying attention
-I also don't use directly controlled units except crypt fiends, abom and sometimes zombie spellcasters, but it's an option for people who like microing multiple units
-the secrets are often behind trees and visible only when you move the camera so I'm not surprised they're hard to find & most of them are tomes because tiny war3 inventory

 

[FeelMyRash]

Funny map, cool idea, but felt like the end result is not what it tried to be.
I mean, the impression I got is that it's supposed to be about utilizing zombies to do most of the work, however I ended up doing majority of the work with Zacchary's spells. And zombies felt more like a meat wall with a little bit of occasional damage. Actually, zombies did most of the work initially, up to the point where I lowered the bridge. And after that their comparative damage output kept getting lower and lower, with final orc base (especially the units) being almost entirely cleared via Zacchary's spells.
Now don't get me wrong, zombies are useful beyond tanking damage - I was actually managing the different types trying to keep a good mix of all types, and it did yield certain benefits. But their damage output is lacking. Sure, a bunch of zombies with magic attack type can dish out some good damage against heavy armor type units, but a couple bloodlusted taurens will obliterate way more zombies way faster.

The terrain is very nice. And the use of explosive barells is pretty cool.

Regarding the balance of Zacchary's spells - upgrading No pain no gain (E) is actually counterbeneficial. The mana/health ratio is 2 / 1.67 / 1.5 respective to spell level. So you gain less mana per point of health at the cost of gaining mana faster, but there's no need for that high mana regen. In fact, even with lvl 1 spell I was running out of health faster than out of mana.
Also I didn't feel the need be able to control some units - they're too weak to make a noticeable difference and I'd rather put effort in microing Zacchary instead of meddling with a bunch of units.
Other skills are fine and balanced well.

Also, secrets are really secretive. Found only 3 out of 7, then checked the map with iseedeadpeople and found just 2 more (Book of Health and Gloves of Haste). Although I suspect some secret was not accounted for in the final score. I found Staff of Negation, Blades of Attack +6, Book of Agility+2 and whatever was at the murlocs, so that should be 4 I think.

Regarding "No Pain no Gain", I found myself using this spell very often in the later game, especially VS the Orcs. The way I would use it involved standing near the Crypt for the heal that balanced out the health loss.

Of course, this is nit always an option, and I agree that the health loss might be bit too much for proper use of the spell.

 

[nv4]

-I must play way more aggressively than you, I usually use No pain no gain a lot and sometimes retreat to heal at the crypt because I always never just autoattack with the hero

Actually, I basicaly didn't use basic attacks beyond the lowering bridge, doing all the damage with spells, and used No pain no gain almost constantly too, and also had to heal at the crypt from time to time. Which is exactly my point - even on lvl 1 it gives a solid mana regen, and mana potions seemed to drop with higher chance than health potions. On the other hand, health was the issue, especially when playing too agressively and jumping headfirst into enemy armies. So upgrading No pain no gain doesn't really provide benefit.
Anyway, my point is - No pain no gain should at least keep the 2/1 ratio of mana/health on higher levels.

 

[Armelior_is_back]

Maybe I went a bit too hard in rebalancing for the 1st level to be more powerful (relatively). Keeping the same ratio may be a good compromise, I want the spell to still be dangerous if you abuse it

 

[Xmachina]

Very cool Game ! maybe its a bit too repetitive but i still finish it and having fun