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No matter which spell from the table I click on, it takes me to the first post in the contest. Anyone knows why? It kinda makes finding the spells a pain in the arse!
Edit:
Oh, I get it now. I didn't wait long enough :|
I've fixed the error KILLCIDE pointed out on the table - DD_legionTN's link now takes you to the post rather than just it's index - my apologies for the mistake
I do not understand this. if you do not put this Poll to the info page, people, that did not check out the contest regularly, will not recognize that they can vote for a winner now? I would rather attach this new to the contest note.
I do not understand this. if you do not put this Poll to the info page, people, that did not check out the contest regularly, will not recognize that they can vote for a winner now?
Comparing the numbers of reviews for some of the maps and the number of voters (e.g Almia 20, Emma-A 5, Rheiko 13, Tank-Commander 9 and my own map 5), I conclude that most of the voters vote for the entrants than entries.
I mean if they are gonna vote without even checking all of them, what's the point? It seems people think they are electing presidents!!!
I think score allocation for public votes should be reduced to a number around %10 of the total score, since it is killing the competition thus rendering this public vote useless. I wanted to vote, but since it's nonsense, I won't! And if I do I'll vote for those who have fewer votes to balance this imbalance!
This was all the more reason to my judgement about the qualities of contests in forums! - Complete waste of time!
@Loner-Magixxar
Ahh yes that has always been a problem in contests like these. You can't always force all of them to vote fairly and you must not expect all of them to view the entry. People are lazy, sometimes they just view the description and images/GIFs as a way to judge. and they won't certainly check your code as a reference for judging. That's why you must put as much images/GIFs as possible.
I'd contest that given the previews people are giving to their entries, it's more likely that the number of downloads is related to the presentation - that is to say things represented unclearly or with mechanics that are less obvious in those previews have more downloads than those which are quite clear, but also that "boring" presentations don't garner downloads
example:
Empirean's entry has 22 downloads - their entry has no GIFs and its mechanics are very unclear in the screenshots presented
KILLCIDE's entry has 10 downloads - their entry has GIFs depicting each stage of his ability showing what his ability does
That's not to say people aren't flawed - Kyrbri0's entry has 7 downloads at the time of this post and they may be easily attributed to having no screenshots at all and the post saying it's unfinished. In an ideal world all entries would be downloaded and tested by each voter but the reality of it is, is that people don't do that - but it's strange to assume they vote for people not entries - while it may be arguably a contest of good looks (as has been argued in the past, though poll distributions disagree) as far as the public is concerned, a cult of personality is just a weird conclusion to come to.
People who have done well in the past (Almia, Flux, myself, etc. to name a few familiar contestants) are likely to do well again for the same reason we originally did so - otherwise we'd have never done well. The only way that becomes a bad thing is if you are to argue that none of our entries have ever historically stood out in and of themselves and instead to rely on our respective popularities within the community - which then brings in to question if we got popular originally from making high quality resources or from talking to people which is anyone's game to play
Though this is where the talk of the poll votes comes into question. Since I've had to go over this a number of times from people calling it unfair and having too much of an effect I'll go fully through my argument;
It's a low percentage as-is (one must garner a significant amount of votes to change results) and it does add a bit more diversity of opinion to the judging - whether their voting basis is lazy or otherwise. One can't expect a single judge to be completely objective even if they make it their primary goal when we aren't exactly a group of professionals, which is why it's particularly good that we have 3 judges this time around. To give an idea of how small the effect the polls have I've done some example mathematics:
taken from the previous thread (changing values to variables):
FinalScore = (POLL_PERCENTAGE*PollVotes/POLL_VOTES_TOTAL) + (JUDGE_PERCENTAGE*JudgeScore/JUDGE_SCORE_TOTAL)
keeping in mind judges scores are out of 40 for this contest
so for a poll of say 40 voters which is pretty standard, with 30% significance to the result each vote is worth
30 * 1/40 = 0.75 points
each judge point is worth
70 * 1/40 = 1.75 points
meaning you must have a 3 point lead on somebody in the voting polls for it to counteract a single point of difference on the judging (anything less does a total of nothing at all to the results)
so what would this look like for 10:90 split?
10 * 1/40 = 0.25 points from poll
90 * 1/40 = 2.25 points from judging
you'd be talking a 10 vote lead to counteract one judges point (keeping in mind to "overrule a judge" you must score more than the person ahead of you - normally when two people tie they both get the lower number i.e. two 3rd places and no 2nd)
presently speaking very few of us have any real lead on anybody else in the contest and I doubt for most of us it'll come down to a single point - historically it rarely has. The poll already does basically nothing mathematically - at best you can argue it sways judging but I trust the people volunteering to have more integrity than that
Of course some guys will vote the first-best entry, just because of subjectivism, but that's no reason to follow this trend.
I already downloaded all entries, and will shortly test one by one within some days or so. Youmustdo something before something will change. Don't wait for others to make it right.
My spell has only 7 views. And there have been 23 votes already. I guess it's because my entry is the last in the list, but I also think that many users just vote for users who they like the most - not for the spell in particular. Not saying bribing is involved, but rather sympathy for their friends.
My spell has only 7 views. And there have been 23 votes already. I guess it's because my entry is the last in the list, but I also think that many users just vote for users who they like the most - not for the spell in particular. Not saying bribing is involved, but rather sympathy for their friends.
Yes, that's another problem with contests involving polls. I guess there's nothing we can do about it. Fortunately, voters of my entry are not my close friends even not close enough to be considered as acquaintance.
But yeah, unfair voting has always been a problem that could discourage participants in future contests.
I never do that personally, though I do something similar.
When I vote for contests and there are a lot of submissions, I cannot be bothered to check every single one.
So I check the ones from users I know will have decent submissions. So in this case I'd check the mods/reviewers first, and then move on to those I've seen works of before (Almia etc).
So if I were to vote for this contest I'd skip a third of the contestants.
Guys, I would not over-react. In the end, most contests have an intrinsic bias -I think the number of completely fair contest on this planets since its appearance is 0 with a 95% CI of 1
No seriously as long as humans or simply living beings are involved there will always be unfairness.
I would rather focus on the contest itself and not be jalous or mad on the votings. There is no way, a famous name will not get more votes than a not so famous name. Also you should not forget, a lot of people will not be able to understand vJass spell mechanics, or they do not have the time, but may want to contribute as well.
So I vote for staying positive and having fun
@ the Poll:
This is extremely difficult to vote, I think. I did not download each spell yet, but already from the ones I tested, there is several really amazing aspects to take into account. E.g.: I could easily vote for Flux for this awesome enemy recognition as well as for tank commander for these awesome bots - the flight systems are all very nicely elaborated, and I am actually happy to be able to learn from you guys . THen again, look at what killcide can do with GUI, or the creativity of Chaosy's system and so on -
I just named a few contestants, and will edit my post and vote, as soon as I checked out all spells.
My spell has only 7 views. And there have been 23 votes already. I guess it's because my entry is the last in the list, but I also think that many users just vote for users who they like the most - not for the spell in particular. Not saying bribing is involved, but rather sympathy for their friends.
Voters of my entry aren't my friends either. The ones I consider friends in this community rather vote for the other contestants' entries than mine. Mine is just not good enough to bring out their sympathy, I guess. ~
What is with all the sprawling negativity in this thread?
xxdingo93xx said:
but I also think that many users just vote for users who they like the most - not for the spell in particular. Not saying bribing is involved, but rather sympathy for their friends.
I can attest to the fact that I've rarely been voted for before by people I've ever heard of let alone friends and I've not seen it be done for other entrants; but as a pointed out earlier, mathematically you need at least ~3 friends to vote for you to overturn 1 judge point - while this probably has happened in the past from what I can tell it's never happened in a way that has altered the results of the contest
Emm-A- said:
I think the number of completely fair contest on this planets since its appearance is 0 with a 95% CI of 1
I have to tend to disagree, unless you mean voters aren't 100% perfect which would be obviously correct, but again talking about influence of public polls - in the past 4 times I've entered public votes have made a significant difference to the result in exactly 1 of them - no others have the polls ever influenced 1st or 2nd place (I may go out on a limb and say the same to 3rd place but it'd be a lie to say I was sure) and in the event that it did there was a commanding lead involved (42% of all votes, second place on the poll controlling 25% and the rest no more than 11% in a poll with low turnout (29 votes))
Emm-A- said:
a famous name will not get more votes than a not so famous name
This can/does and has happened historically in the zephyr contest - in zephyr #11 AKA.GywGod133 had the 3rd most votes beating out CakeMaster and rulerofiron99, you'd be hard pressed to argue AKA is more famous, in zephyr #10 Hell_Master had the second most votes ahead of Almia, Cokemonkey11, mckill2009 - all names well established as good coders and do you know where Hell_Master placed? Last. That's how much the public poll votes matter - not at all really. Arguably I was one of the less well-known entrants in the contest scene at least back in zephyr #10 and I won the thing - I'm surprised Empirean is on this side of the fence when they came second in the last contest while having almost the least amount of votes in the whole thing (2 votes out of 29)
It's like you're all pre-empting the results attempting to blame it on a system of near-0 influence, we have 3 judges. They will determine 90%+ of the final standings, guaranteed. It's difficult to not become agitated by all this negativity when it's caused by such an asinine, tiny problem which in all likelihood will do nothing at all, particularly because I hear it made every single time this contest is held so I point this out every time and my statements are never rebuffed
It's not near zero influence. In the last contest, if there was no poll, you would have placed third but you dominated the poll so you've got first place instead. So the poll still matters that's why they're arguing.
Flux did you even read my post - 1 contest out of 4 with a commanding lead and low vote turnout and small deviation in judge scores, Need I remind you there was 2 points between 3rd and 1st place on the judges results? the contest before had twice that difference - to use it as a case is to use an outlier to disprove a general trend. Do you see any commanding leads of 40% of all votes in this contest? No; I see a close contest with few votes between each entrant with over two weeks left for more votes
moreover, when you have few judges (typically for zephyr just one) I'd argue it's better for there to be influence in the poll - one judge having all the say is pretty risky business for contest integrity. Just be glad we have 3 now.
Edit: I'd also note this "problem" has - as I said - been brought up every single contest despite it only having any influence in the last one, so you'd be hard pressed to argue that it's because of the last result - bolstering it sure - but causing it? no, there's some other underlying cause
As long as competition has judges that are capable of giving impartial and proper judging (ones that won't give corrupted votes and then try to justify their decision by ascribing it to ''beauty is in the eye of beholder'' or similar cliche), poll votes are just vox populi which in the end won't matter too much.
The only way voting in poll system can be purified is to have private submissions with authors' names revealed at the end on contest.
If you plan on uploading your spell into the spell section, please consider any of Anitarf's suggestions before actually uploading it.
Also, why is this poll vote talk even a thing? You would need to absolutely crush the polls for it to even matter. Tank won the last contest because he had 10+ votes over everyone and extremely close scores to the top 2 who placed in coding.
I wanted to vote, but since it's nonsense, I won't! And if I do I'll vote for those who have fewer votes to balance this imbalance!
This was all the more reason to my judgement about the qualities of contests in forums! - Complete waste of time!
Agreed. However, that would mean no WIP posts. It also wouldn't be completely "pure" because contestants would just tell their friends which entry is theirs
I'm aware of what you meant Emm-A-, the last remark was more in reference to others complaining as if they were being wronged and being decidedly negative
Interesting thoughts, everyone. This is actually the kind of discussion I'm going to be pushing for when I work up my over-arching "Contests" poll.
I won't weigh in (I already have, at length, in other Contests), but I will say that I've realized we're all asking the wrong question when it comes to Polls and Voters and their importance/weight/etc. Or perhaps not "wrong", just "not first". The first & most important question to be answered has more to do with "why" we are doing Contests in the first place; polls, judges, deadlines, guidelines, themes, criteria... It all hinges on that.
But anyway, I've helped diverge enough. Please, by all means keep testing & voting. : )
I never do that personally, though I do something similar.
When I vote for contests and there are a lot of submissions, I cannot be bothered to check every single one.
So I check the ones from users I know will have decent submissions. So in this case I'd check the mods/reviewers first, and then move on to those I've seen works of before (Almia etc).
So if I were to vote for this contest I'd skip a third of the contestants.
And this is exactly what I meant. If it is so much of a bother for you and mostly all of the voters, then why starting a contest (especially a poll)? Just gather some so called famous people and set up an awarding ceremony and present them the award they deserve! Why wasting other people's time?
I remember being said by KILLCIDE that posting in the spell section is unfair, but I don't see him complaining now, which is very funny ,because why would he bother now, if he has the top votes? At least if I and not famous people like me were allowed to post on the spell section, maybe people would check it at least! And it wouldn't be so much of a bother for them! And I'm pretty sure that KILLCIDE thinks this is the fairest situation in the world, by saying this:
I said that I vote for someone to increase their odds against this unfairness and it doesn't even increase my odds because I don't have any! Think before you write.
I said that I vote for someone to increase their odds against this unfairness and it doesn't even increase my odds because I don't have any! Think before you write.
You're clearly not understanding my statement either, and thanks for the pleasant comment. I'm not going to waste any time trying to explain something that will just stir more drama. Best of luck in the judging portion of the contest.
I simply do not want to be the one known who constantly fuels the fire instead of taking it out. Regardless, I can care less what my vote count is. I'm more interested in the category that is worth 75% of the total score, but whatever helps you sleep at night.
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Contest Thread | Results
