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Zephyr Contest #15 - Poll

Discussion in 'Poll Depository' started by IcemanBo, Apr 6, 2017.

?

What's your favority entry?

Poll closed Apr 21, 2017.
  1. Fruit Forest - Overlord Slam

    9.5%
  2. PurplePoot - Prismatic Spray

    14.3%
  3. NEL - Prison

    9.5%
  4. Tank-Commander - Apex Blizzard

    9.5%
  5. Anachron - The Dark Plague

    4.8%
  6. Loner-Magixxar - Touch of Nature

    9.5%
  7. KILLCIDE - Flame Burst

    42.9%
  8. Marjosh38 - Elementum Spectrum

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. KILLCIDE

    KILLCIDE

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    Yeah they would have to make their own Buff system. That's why it is good to mention what your base spells are so that the user can change it accordingly. Now that you mention it, I should have used the JASS native to issue the order instead of the GUI so that they don't have to go into the code to make the adjustments.
     
  2. Fruit Forest

    Fruit Forest

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    Anyway i think "consume" two debuffs (crip and curse) is not a good idea. Yes, they can be dispelled, but an user should do own system. If I were you I would try to avoid using debuffs from cripple, curse, inner fire etc.
     
  3. KILLCIDE

    KILLCIDE

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    Expecting a user to have their own buff system is a little too much :p the learning curve of making one or using the API of one is pretty big in my opinion.

    Regardless, I chose Cripple because I wanted the movement speed reduction.
     
  4. Fruit Forest

    Fruit Forest

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    Maybe it's just me who prefer to avoid object editor parameters and put stuff on trigger field as more as possible.
     
  5. KILLCIDE

    KILLCIDE

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    Yeah I tend to do that as well. However, I was not in the mood to make a movement speed reduction library or use another one.
     
  6. Loner-Magixxar

    Loner-Magixxar

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    All in all, there is not a high level of nesting in my codes, and some of them are necessary; for example, the code should first see what the target is, and then try to evaluate the kind of trees around that target which needs conditions (such as the limit of trees, types of trees, sifting dead trees, etc.). Unnesting some of the conditions really complicates matters at some points. But some of them can be unnested, which I agree, but as I said the level of nestings are not that much to cause any strain.
     
  7. KILLCIDE

    KILLCIDE

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    @Anachron i reread your post and realized you might have been referring to my review for your spell. When i said that your spell shouldn't have "test map" features, i was referring to the
    FogEnable()
    and
    FogMaskEnable()
    in the init function of your spell.
     
  8. Anachron

    Anachron

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    Yeah sorry I wasn't really feeling like adding a new lib just to disable fog. There was no statement in the Contest Thread about this being an issue.
     
  9. KILLCIDE

    KILLCIDE

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    It doesn't, but I do recall a judge a couple of contests ago talking about. Also given that these go into the Spell Section, a user unfamiliar with vJass will be wondering why the fog is off :D
     
  10. Anachron

    Anachron

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    You're right, I should maybe have split it. Didn't really pay much attension on it since I was so focussing on finishing the spell in time. My mistake :(
     
  11. Rui

    Rui

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    @PurplePoot has an entry? :eek: Woot, he's here? Amagad!!!!

    Been a while since I voted on a contest :)
     
  12. Exarch

    Exarch

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    Any clever idea about how can i see the spells without having any software on this office pc? xd
    @deepstrasz can you make a video of these entries too?
    i'd love to vote for this.

    Edit: It's cool how @KILLCIDE put GIFs on his, and even some pictures as others did but i wish they all had a working gif.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2017
  13. IcemanBo

    IcemanBo

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    Just to share progress -- judged 4/8, reading list from top. I pretty much enjoyed the spells so far, and it's cool they're all in the data base already! : )
    I won't read KILLCIDE's or other critiques btw, before I finished myself, but it's very nice the effort has been made.
     
  14. KILLCIDE

    KILLCIDE

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    4/8 already?! This will probably be the first Zephyr that doesn't involve waiting months for a result \o/
     
  15. PurplePoot

    PurplePoot

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    There were definitely some issues with my code (for example, I didn't bother to write much documentation for parts other than the config, although the code should be self-explanatory in most places), but these are the sorts of habits I had to unlearn once I left the JASS community last time. There's something to be said for fighting the JASS interpreter's quirks when it matters, but the rest of the time writing worse code just to make optimizations that don't matter should be avoided. Thanks for the look though!

    I'd be perfectly OK with the contest providing a test map for us to use, but otherwise as Killcide mentioned I just kinda threw something together that met the requirements. I don't think anyone was trying to cheat by obscuring major flaws in their spell or anything of the sort.

    Had some time to kill during reading week! We'll see if I enter anything else, but it was fun to write some JASS after mostly writing code for work over the past few years.




    Quick feedback (I didn't look at the code, this is gameplay-only):

    • Overlord Slam: Wasn't a huge fan: jump spells are a bit overdone and the effects are a bit garish.
    • Prison: Once again, the effects are a bit ugly near the start but the circle of green effects at the end looks really good. The concept would be hard to work into most maps.
    • Apex Blizzard: Liked it a lot. My main concern is that you can't really aim it.
    • The Dark Plague: Wasn't really sure what this spell did. I also got an error from Table at one point while testing it.
    • Touch of Nature: Way too much going on (and I say this as someone whose spell probably had too much going on) and most of it was kind of overly simple.
    • Flame Burst: Pretty neat and not too flamboyant. I'm not a huge fan of the way the "pulses" work (it seems weird to have 8 projectiles rather than an actual nova) and I felt like it kind of tied together a few different unrelated concept, but the execution was solid.
    • Elementum Spectrum: This was pretty buggy plus kind of goes against the idea of only having one spell in the contest. You couldn't level up the spell while it was active, for example, and if you tried to cast one of the morph spells right before it changed to the other one your spell would get cancelled. The effects were also a bit ugly (in particular the sideways aura effect clipped through the ground).

    Vote goes to Apex Blizzard.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2017
  16. KILLCIDE

    KILLCIDE

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    Thanks for the review, Purple Poot!

    Yeah I totally wanted to do a real nova, but I'm unsure how you would even go about coding that :p
     
  17. PurplePoot

    PurplePoot

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    Graphics-wise you'd just find a suitable effect (or possibly put sufficiently many projectiles nearby, although that might get laggy if you aren't careful). Effect-wise you just search for units in range r2 but not in range r1 (where r2 - r1 is the width of the nova).
     
  18. Rui

    Rui

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    This is true. ^^ I remember when writing JASS I was always overly worried about performance. In the real world,
    sometimes it's better to sacrifice some for the sake of readability. ;)

    :ahug:
     
  19. Lord_Earthfire

    Lord_Earthfire

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    I wanted to write a small review of the spells up in the next week. Firstly, i need to look into the code first (im curious for that 3d aiming algorithm :p tbh ).
     
  20. Tank-Commander

    Tank-Commander

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    I quickly went over everyone's entries in game I'll just summarize my experience of the mechanics though I'll abstain from voting since I honestly have no idea what I'd vote for and I haven't really gone over code except in cases where I was curious about specific mechanics - I also added magic immune enemies (granite golems) to the maps to check consistency with in-game mechanics

    The Dark Plague:
    - Easy to use easy to target, interesting effects on the units afflicted - could use a bit more oomph on the effects but that's my personal opinion
    - The spell doesn't wake up sleeping enemies which doesn't mimic normal in game debuffs (to my knowledge)
    - The randomness of the spell while intentional gives rise to inconsistent performance, which I'm less of a fan of
    - I got the table error that other people have mentioned, which is a shame - lets down the ability a lot
    - Couldn't test for magic immunes since I have a 1.28 WC3 and a broken JNGP, I'll err on the side of probably ignores them

    Flame Burst:
    - Very straightforward point-and-click ability, definitely something that could see a lot of use in maps
    - The effects were pretty clean, but otherwise what you'd kind of expect from a fire spell
    - it was a bit hard to tell how much damage you'd be doing intuitively since the spell can refresh its own debuff/DoT on other units
    - the debuff overwrite was a bit odd to say the least - I mean yes obviously you want the strongest level of the debuff to display but to outright block the spell being cast on the same unit twice (if the other one is lower level) is a bit weird, you can't extend the duration that way (say one is about to expire) Also produces odd behaviour if you consider a FFA situation - the last/highest level cast could come from different players and "steal" a kill a it were on creeps or whatever else, again doesn't really mimic in-game mechanics
    - The AOE damage from units dying affects flyers, but no other aspects of the spell do which is inconsistent
    - Correctly ignores magic immunes

    Overlord Slam:
    - easy ability to use/target, a bit inconsistent given the damage is based off slam distance but that's not an issue as such you get the hang of it pretty easily
    - The arc is well, not an arc, it's a triangle - looks odd when going over cliffs or up/down hills
    - Spell does nothing if cast directly on your position (if you're stationary) you'd do this by casting and clicking on the portrait rather than on the ground will still cost you the mana/cooldown though would've liked to see a sim error or a sort of default state in that scenario but that's a mostly minor issue (since it's a bit weird to do that)
    - Correctly ignored flying and magic immune units
    - Pretty sure floating texts are "shown" to everybody by default, scanning the code I found that you don't hide it for others just show for the owning player - probably can be seen by other players through the fog of war and whatnot but would need to confirm

    Touch of Nature:
    - This one is really complex in terms of how many ways you can use it, but it's obvious a lot of effort went into it, bit hard to use effectively as a consequence though
    - I enjoyed the effects quite a bit on this one, especially the AOE for the revive effect - though it didn't do much other than be an effect in that case
    - The dependence on trees mechanics is interesting, though the tree reviving part of the spell is possibly a bit slow
    - The spell didn't confirm tree targets very well, if you made the spell based off channel you could make it so trees could be visibly selected as a target
    - Correctly ignored magic immunes, correctly identified trees, though these trees were identified by a list of all tree types rather than normal detection methods

    Prison:
    - Hard to "aim" due to being instant cast with no range indicator but otherwise pretty easy to use
    - The effects could do with a lot more "Introduction" rather than suddenly appearing but were generally clean and pretty good otherwise
    - I wonder about the AOE size when you consider that on the test map you're zoomed out, if you have a normal view would the cage fit on the screen?
    - The spell does affect air units but doesn't "Intuitively" do so since the cage isn't "tall enough" but that's just a visual comment
    - The spell doesn't ignore Magic Immunes
    - Kind of an aside but please change the ingame map name away from "Just another Warcraft III Map" too many do that and it gets hard to find the right test map (and the test map generally was just very awkward what with heroes being easily killed)

    Prismatic Spray:
    - I liked that so long as where your target point was within the effective AOE of the spell it would cast immediately (rather than run up to that point and use it as an origin point as it were, though did have some awkwardness when you want to hit two "groups" of units at the same time
    - The effects were very fitting for the model, very chaotic looking which I enjoyed
    - I have the same issue with randomness that I mentioned for The Dark Plague but similarly it's more of a preference thing than anything else
    - Occasionally there was frame loss during the spell casts, presumably from the amount of effects that were being made simultaneously
    - Same issue with testing for magic immunes as I had with The Dark Plague though the code looks like it might not ignore friendly magic immunes (when healing) can't confirm though

    Elementum Spectrum:
    - Well the main part is easy to use, the rest is actually pretty awkward and difficult just because the timing can cancel your attempt to use one of the two sub-abilities
    - Doesn't mimic ingame mechanics at all really for a spell (as mentioned by Purplepoot)
    - The fire spell consistently forms that spiral-like effect which is all well and good, except it causes inconsistent performance where what absolute position away from the caster you are affects the potency of the spell, which isn't very good
    - The spell is actually 3 spells, which kind of shouldn't be the case, Iceman mentioned having 1 sub ability as fine but this was 2 and I found the water sub ability in a number of ways more useful than the actual spell
    - I did enjoy the effect of the final explosion, though I think it could've been done with being a bit shorter of a spell, though that was mostly for effect - didn't serve too much of a purpose
    - Correctly ignores magic immunes
    - Hits flying units but doesn't intuitively do so

    I think everybody had fitting spells for their model so I don't think anybody "failed" their concept
    did notice that a lot of people were managing to ignore magic immunes via happenstance (damagetype or spell just unable to target them) rather than programmatically ignoring them, so would be a possible issue if somebody configured them to use different damagetypes
    of course all of these comments are without really reading the code much or at all in some cases, this post would probably get over twice as long if I did XD
    mechanically I'm torn on which one is my favourite - I enjoy the diversity on Touch of nature though it is probably doing too much, overlord slam is fun to use but the issues with the arcing and the ability to get stuck in a bunch of trees kind of irritates, prismatic spray would be great if I didn't drop frames sometimes. so if I were to vote code-blind I'd probably go for one of those

    If I've gotten anything wrong in my analysis of an entry by all means correct me