1. Updated Resource Submission Rules: All model & skin resource submissions must now include an in-game screenshot. This is to help speed up the moderation process and to show how the model and/or texture looks like from the in-game camera.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. DID YOU KNOW - That you can unlock new rank icons by posting on the forums or winning contests? Click here to customize your rank or read our User Rank Policy to see a list of ranks that you can unlock. Have you won a contest and still haven't received your rank award? Then please contact the administration.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Let your favorite entries duke it out in the 15th Techtree Contest Poll.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Weave light to take you to your highest hopes - the 6th Special Effect Contest is here!
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Check out the Staff job openings thread.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
60,000 passwords have been reset on July 8, 2019. If you cannot login, read this.

+100 REP Team Contest - Hive Member - Poll

Discussion in 'Poll Depository' started by IcemanBo, Jan 12, 2018.

?

Which Hive Hero was created the best?

Poll closed Feb 11, 2018.
  1. Alliance - Lady Hive

    9.8%
  2. Best tem 10/10 - Moose General

    3.3%
  3. CHAMPIONS - Dark Paladin

    6.6%
  4. DREAM TEAM - Goblin Artist

    54.1%
  5. JustAZbound - Fabricator Tank

    13.1%
  6. Scourge - Fel Spider

    1.6%
  7. ZAWAIJ - Troll Pariah

    11.5%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Direfury

    Direfury

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    Messages:
    3,144
    Resources:
    155
    Models:
    142
    Icons:
    11
    Packs:
    1
    Spells:
    1
    Resources:
    155
    Bit of advice. Try different paint bomb combos. Use a blue right on your target, followed by a yellow while they're bodyblocked, and can't run. Or use yellow to snare someone in range of a red bomb.
     
  2. MyPad

    MyPad

    Spell Reviewer

    Joined:
    May 9, 2014
    Messages:
    1,457
    Resources:
    8
    Models:
    1
    Icons:
    2
    Maps:
    1
    Spells:
    3
    JASS:
    1
    Resources:
    8
    I actually equipped her with two more abilities, which had been disabled as of the submission of the demo. I originally wanted to see her as a he, thus the conflicting description.

    I forgot to add a proper conditional check for the text tag display so when the mana of surrounding enemies is burnt, it gets stored into the hive and displays the text tag. Taken into perspective, if it drains 5 mana, then the amount of health and mana to be restored would be 0.8 and 1.0 respectively, but it will be displayed as an integer, resulting into 0 and 1.

    To see what I mean, try adding priests into the test map.

    Anyway, I cast my vote on:

    Goblin Artist

    The team really did a great job at displaying Goblin Artist at what he does best, painting. Given the high quality art assets, and almost seamless spell casting, DREAM-TEAM surely deserves the name. To be able to create such an intricate balance between spell mechanics and visual eye candy and with nothing falling short of excellent (even using just GUI, for the spell!), I would find this to be the best.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
  3. Chaosy

    Chaosy

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    10,838
    Resources:
    17
    Maps:
    1
    Spells:
    10
    Tutorials:
    6
    Resources:
    17
    What a surprise
    [​IMG]
     
  4. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Messages:
    8,168
    Resources:
    1
    Models:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    Well, was it? If it only had one level & was accessed at Level 6, it's an Ultimate.
    (full disclosure: haven't tested anyone's entry yet, lol)

    It's interesting you should say that; for the purposes of the standard game & fitting in to it, I agree. However, since in this Contest we could only make 1 ability, I realized pretty quickly that we would all have to work pretty hard & make it relatively complex to have any hope of winning (e.g. something interesting & useful like Mirror Image or Blink or Death&Decay are great, but not nearly interesting enough to stand up on their own).

    Can't really speak for what might have happened in the merged entries test map... But if you read the description (& even the Tooltip), you'll know that "being stuck with fear" is exactly what the spell says it does. ; ) No 'bug' there... *cough*

    Well thanks. Yeah, 'testing functionalities' have been a part of Hero Contests for as long as I can remember. : )

    Yeah... I forgot/failed to do that. I really wanted to either get more SFX in there, or potentially put a 'spirit' floating above it, but the Grim Ward model came back to me right near the end & I didn't think we had time to make many changes; didn't want to throw a monkey wrench in things ("HEY MODELER MAKE THIS DIFFERENT IN .3 MINUTES!", y'know), and I had no time to do it myself. C'est la vie.

    No status effect? Meh, didn't really think of it. Probably not a bad idea.
     
  5. KILLCIDE

    KILLCIDE

    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2015
    Messages:
    3,502
    Resources:
    20
    Models:
    2
    Icons:
    10
    Spells:
    7
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    20
    As a coder, all the stuff I make support multi level :p I would hold the same expectations for any submission I see in the spell section.
     
  6. Apheraz Lucent

    Apheraz Lucent

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    3,312
    Resources:
    4
    Tutorials:
    4
    Resources:
    4
    @Kyrbi0

    You're confusing complex and new, which are not mutually exclusive, but far different.
    A new spell would be "cutting" through the targeted enemy, appearing symmetrically on the other side of it and dealing damage to all enemies you cut through.
    A complex spell would add a bleeding and slowing effect to it, an option to re-cast the spell in next two seconds to cut through the unit again if it's in range, and a chance to proc any on-attack effects like Critical Strike and Bash on all targets you hit, all while proc-ing status attack modifiers such as Orb effects or Vampiric Aura.

    While a system has to be new, there's a fine line between making it unique to ladder Warcraft 3 universe, and making it too complex to fit in. If you have to read the tooltip more than once to understand the spell, chances are it's complicity is getting out of hand.
     
  7. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Messages:
    8,168
    Resources:
    1
    Models:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    I agree.

    However, what I'm saying is that not only did this Contest (like all Contests, ostensibly) want the spells to be New... They *also*, implicitly, encouraged them to be *Complex* (due to the constraints). I wasn't a fan of it, I just observed it.
     
  8. Apheraz Lucent

    Apheraz Lucent

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    3,312
    Resources:
    4
    Tutorials:
    4
    Resources:
    4
    Is that so? I myself always preferred clean entries over overthought ones.
     
  9. KILLCIDE

    KILLCIDE

    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2015
    Messages:
    3,502
    Resources:
    20
    Models:
    2
    Icons:
    10
    Spells:
    7
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    20
    Cokemonkey's criteria grades on uniqueness and "creativity w/ context of contest theme". I don't see him explicitly or implicitly stating complex.
     
  10. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Messages:
    8,168
    Resources:
    1
    Models:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    Oh I do too; again, don't misunderstand me. : ) I'm simply talking about what I perceived this Contest to be looking for.

    Well, aside from that being a bit confusing (how is 'uniqueness' defined separately from 'creativity w/ context of contest theme'; seems kinda redundant)... The big question is what does "[w.r.t.] context of [the] Contest['s] theme" mean?

    I've realized just how meaningful it must be, defining that idea of "creativity/uniqueness/originality" for each & every Contest, because *my* definition of "c/u/o" is different from others. It's essential that we know what that word means, in what context.

    For example, say I coded up a Knockback spell (literally just "hits target with a wall of force, knocking them backwards"). That's pretty creative!... for Warcraft. No knockback spells exist in standard Wc3, so it's unique (technically unique, the best kind of unique! :p). Same for a Jump Strike spell, or a whole host of others.

    Problem is, such a spell would be one of the single-most common things you could find in our Resource section; in the context of the Hive's resources, or just 'the modding universe in general', those are pretty *un*-original.

    Going personal, my spell is pretty much nothing but a super-Death Pact/Dark Ritual + the 'disabling cyclone' effect of the Tornado (in fact, if I wasn't so bent on doing it my way, it would have been better to simply reuse that effect, lol). (I would argue) Technically, sufficiently unique for Warcraft 3, but not really much of anything for the Spell section IMO.

    ~

    Well you wouldn't see an "implicit" statement, silly. ; )

    Seriously, though, I'm just looking at the writing on the wall. If someone had implemented a simple 'charge' spell or 'knockback' or 'jump strike', how well would it do in the Judging? Even assuming it's perfectly coded, it's just not very "creative" to most people (for Warcraft/me, sure, but not necessarily the rest of the Hive).

    I'll ask you: why did you decide to make what can literally be described as "3 spells in one", with a 'form-changer' ability to enable it? I'm not knocking it, I'm just saying you probably perceived the same thing implicitly that I did; that the spell needed to be sufficiently complex to be worth Judging (for a number of reasons).
     
  11. KILLCIDE

    KILLCIDE

    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2015
    Messages:
    3,502
    Resources:
    20
    Models:
    2
    Icons:
    10
    Spells:
    7
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    20
    Honestly, we had originally thought of just having the Paint Bomb explode when it reached the target location (hence where the name came from). However, we all agreed that it didn't feel "art-sy." So, we had decided to add the paint puddles for that.

    I don't really think we were aiming for complexity :p we actually had A LOT of ideas we ended up throwing out because it was too complex. For example, we had originally intended for the slow from the yellow paint to increase over time. We also wanted to add a lightning effect that attached the unit to the puddle, and if they didn't break the link, they would be snared.
     
  12. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Messages:
    8,168
    Resources:
    1
    Models:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    You may have thrown out ideas or additional sub-elements to avoid making it even more complex, but I don't think you would argue your current spell as-is isn't already relatively complex. ; )
     
  13. Misha

    Misha

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2008
    Messages:
    7,222
    Resources:
    71
    Models:
    62
    Icons:
    1
    Packs:
    2
    Skins:
    4
    StarCraft II Resources:
    2
    Resources:
    71
    well alright, out of all the goblin's paint-bomb is the most complex spell, if not even a system
     
  14. KILLCIDE

    KILLCIDE

    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2015
    Messages:
    3,502
    Resources:
    20
    Models:
    2
    Icons:
    10
    Spells:
    7
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    20
    By itself, I guess so. It's really just a modified Acid Bomb!

    The "Switch Paint" mechanic will come into play when Direfury and I finish the kit after the contest ;D
     
  15. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Messages:
    8,168
    Resources:
    1
    Models:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    I don't mean the base spell, silly (otherwise mine would be Transmute, lol); I mean the whole spell 'system', the effects. What you created for to be Judged. : )
     
  16. KILLCIDE

    KILLCIDE

    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2015
    Messages:
    3,502
    Resources:
    20
    Models:
    2
    Icons:
    10
    Spells:
    7
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    20
    Yeah it's pretty darn complex, but we weren't aiming for that. We just wanted it to feel "art-sy" and "goblin-y" at the same time.
     
  17. MyPad

    MyPad

    Spell Reviewer

    Joined:
    May 9, 2014
    Messages:
    1,457
    Resources:
    8
    Models:
    1
    Icons:
    2
    Maps:
    1
    Spells:
    3
    JASS:
    1
    Resources:
    8
    @KILLCIDE
    From the looks of it, I find it not to be complex at all, finding key balance in aesthetics and mechanics to carry the entry. Compare it to our spell, and you'll see a lot of complexities, not only in customizability but also in terms of interactions. :wink:
     
  18. Apheraz Lucent

    Apheraz Lucent

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    3,312
    Resources:
    4
    Tutorials:
    4
    Resources:
    4
    Originality, Complexity and Creativity are all very fragile terms. Let me demonstrate:

    Say we take your force wall which knocks enemies in a line away from the caster. It's original to ladder spells, but not so come to modding community. If you, however, make the wall an actual wall of 300 range width which drags enemies away while it slows down reaching the final destination, you got yourself a creative, polished spell. Make the Wall create an impassable 500 width barrier at it's end, and you got originality. And for complexity, add a stun if a unit is dragged for longer than two seconds.

    Using a very overused system (knockback), we still managed to create something new.
    Using a superbly small detail, such as slowing down the wall as it goes, we made the entry look polished.
    And using a petty stun added depth and complexity to the spell.

    I say, for the sake of the future contests, we should decide do we factor in only ladder spells or modding community in general come to voting up these things.
     
  19. Italic

    Italic

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    92
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    Moose? moderator?
     
  20. Daffa

    Daffa

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2013
    Messages:
    8,133
    Resources:
    30
    Packs:
    1
    Maps:
    9
    Spells:
    18
    Tutorials:
    2
    Resources:
    30
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.