Patch 1.30.2 PTR Update

[~El]

If you kill the bots then you are killing a part of Warcraft 3!
Imagine ANY map that has a gameplay mechanic where one player can be killed off or simply lose before others. Imagine if the host dies 1st, he then has the "responsibility" to stay in the game (for who knows how long it will take for the rest of the players to finish) just so that others can continue playing because if he leaves then everyone will disconnect... IS THIS NOT PLAIN STUPID? People will not want to host such maps then...

This is actually not how it works, and it never worked like that.

When the host from the game leaves, the game tries to re-negotiate a new host player. The issue in the past has been that, sometimes, the game would choose a player who does not have their ports forwarded, and subsequently disconnect everyone. I remember, in the past, it was kind of hit and miss, sometimes it would DC everyone, sometimes a new host would be re-elected and everything would be fine.

I imagine now that port-forwarding is no longer an issue, the game will always find another host and it will carry on.

Unless, of course, all games are now hosted on Blizz servers.

 

[Jouven]

You are kinda missing the point. It has already been explained, that "normal hosting" is almost pointless right now. Thus, users are "forced" to use a bot to get a game going.
To use a bot you need to either install third party software or use a third party website. Blizzard can't endorse these websites nor guarantee anything working when using them. Very standard procedure.
The same goes for privacy concerns. IP and other related data are considered personal in certain legislation, and have to be saved securely, deleted on demand etc. The key here is automation and storage.
Blizzard could potentially get in trouble over something like this, users might get issues with these services and come to blizz support, etc. pp. many possible bad scenarios.
Custom banlists might sound cool to people, but what if the victim comes to blizzard support, saying he can't join any games?

There are games with official dedicated server software, the situation here if it hasn't been clear already is like if you played Counter-strike playing with a player host vs a dedicated server, AFAIK none uses the the first option to play multiplayer except for home made lans. The main issue some of you seem to have is that the dedicated server software is not official in warcraft 3, but it's open source and you can check what it does and how it works.

Knowing other players IP comes from bnet using lan game hosting behind the scenes, every time anyone mentions the "privacy" subject you are implying that any game with lan support has privacy issues. Then we've been having privacy issues for 15 years plus all the other games with lan support have this same "issue"

A player host can kick other players effectively preventing anyone from joining a game, and the game doesn't even tell the player that has been kicked, it just goes back to the bnet interface

 

[opium911]

So the amount of users players Warcraft 3 on Battle.Net is ranging between approximately 2700 players in low peak(week day mornings) hours to approximately 4200 players in high peak hours(week-ends in the afternoon).
The Warcraft 3 community is small, fragile, diminishing, and has been accustomed to specific playing habits for the past 10 years.
We already lost people along the way because of issues related to "complex" updating methods that you have put in place with the new patches.

Communication with the Warcraft 3 community seems to be one of your biggest weaknesses.
Why did you not try to see the public opinion about Automated-hosted bots?
Why did you not try to talk to the community and see what we think about them before implementing them in your builds?

We do need Automated-hosted bots and we have been using them for the past 10 years and they have facilitated the gaming environment for most people.


Now a lot of issues are worth noting concerning this whole matter:
1) Based on this whole abolition of Automated-hosted bots, how did you envision custom games?
Are we going back to the 2005 era where people used to host any game they want?
If so, this would mean that all players in those particular games will be dependent on the host user.
If the host user has a bad internet connection, all other users will also drop from the game.
Doesn't seem efficient to me.

2) Why can't both Automated-hosted bots and "standard human hosted games" co-exist?
Nobody would be forced to play the Automated-hosted bots.
You would have the choice to choose from.

3) If we are dependent on a "standard human hosted games", how does Blizzard guarantee us low latency in our games?
I remember the games we used to have in the 2005 era where we all depended on the host's internet connection and I remember very well people always complaining that they had a 2 second delay in their games and games were clearly unplayable at the time.
Do you know what happens when people have big delays? People simply leave the games and this ruins the game for everyone else.

4) How will "standard human hosted games" auto-refresh their games?
Will they need another 3rd party software to do the job?
Once again I do not see the efficiency of adding more software to do something that we already had "automated".

5) Automated-hosted bots have created very moderated environments where people play by logical rules. People who did not play by those rules get banned. This ensured a quality game environment.

When we talk about logical rules, we refer to:

-Do not abuse the !vk !draw, or !ff.
-Do not pause the game while playing in order to distract players and hinder gameplay.
-Do not save the game.
-Do not spam during games (chat, ping, etc.).
-Do not flame, rage, troll, or insult other players excessively.
-Do not leave before the game has certainly ended, especially if no other player has left.
-Do not delay a game from starting by joining/leaving multiple times or otherwise.
-Do not lie about modes. If you intend to choose a non-default mode or if there is no known default
mode, announce the mode in lobby or vote ingame/in lobby.
-Do not deceive players about rules in an attempt to get them banned/to force them to do something
they are not obligated to such as !draw.
-Do not dodge your bans. Dodging is defined as playing on a different account while being banned on
another account, often by a (purposely triggered) change of the IP. Dodging is considered a major
offense equal to maphacking.
-The use of any utility that hides your real IP (proxies/vpns, etc.).
-The use of any utility (FCD, maphack, stream sniping, etc.) that gives you an unfair advantage over
other players will result in a heavy ban.
-Do not multibox. Using two computers/two accounts to be in one (and the same) game as one human
being is not allowed.
-Do not threat or mock community members and do not ddos or dox them.
-Do not teamkill (ex. blocking, maliciously using spells, destroying/hiding/stealing/massing items,
selling towers, etc).
-Do not go away from keyboard for an excessive amount of time, especially without telling other players
beforehand, and/or refuse to play the game in an attempt to ruin it. Neither are you allowed to grief by
resetting the afk timer.
-Do not feed or suicide on purpose which negatively affects the game.
-Do not purposely glitch or exploit the game.
-Do not ghost by leaking information to your enemies/opponents.
-Do not refuse to learn/and or cooperate: this does not mean being new/bad is bannable.
If teammates shared control, do not abuse it.

Those rules were taken from a well known Automated-hosted bots called "Enterprise Gaming".
Reference: EntGaming:Rules - ENT Wiki

With that being said, if there will be no longer any Automated-hosted bots, how will Blizzard guarantee us game environments that are as regulated as Automated-hosted bots?
Those rules were there for a reason ; people want quality games and want to avoid game ruiners or maphackers.
How can Blizzard still ensure quality of games if games are unregulated ?

6) Automated-hosted bots also had websites on which you could track your personal improvement.
Basically you played on your account and kept track of how good or bad you were doing by using the "ELO measurement system" in which people can compare their skills to other players.
This whole concept created a competitive scene where people competed and played with a competitive approach at all times.
With your "standard human hosted games", there will be no more tracking system.
All our games would go unnoticed since we would be playing with a different human host every time.

7) Automated-hosted bots also track offenders. They are tracked by their IP address and people who change their IP addresses also get IP range banned.
This prevents maphackers and game ruiners to come back ruin your games simply because they changed their IP addresses.
How will Blizzard track any offenders? Blizzard will not be able to do that.

8) Automated-hosted bots have websites in which people can discuss.
This brings the Warcraft 3 community together.
Since we are a small community, why divide people into 100's of different hosts?
With Automated-hosted bots, at least people have a common area where they can meet and discuss their custom games on a common website.



All in all, I do not see the abolition of Automated-hosted bots as a step forward.
This will have a negative impact ; more specifically on the whole "Custom game scene".
As they say, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

 

[Wrda]

Are there actually people that lived in a cave after all this time? The proble isn't the host bots themselves, the problem is the automated host-bots
First of all, it was always known that normal hosting was a problem, not only if the host left other players disconnected but also the delay was pretty lame (ranged from 1s-5s). Thus no one in the right mind would do this now. When host bots came as gods, everyone left normal hosting. Later, the host bots suffered some "improvements" and seems like automated host was added. This was what started to ruin the lobby and gaming in general, starting with Wc3 TFT and then finally came to ROC (like 5 years ago) it started to get really hard finding our favourite games etc and everyone was complaining and wishing autohost bots were banned/gone. Yet a bit later, I realised there were host bot sites, both MMH and ENT suck in latency, but I get why they were created at this time.
Getting someone's IP is completely retarded and should not be able to be done, that could be used in the wrong way
Having an ELO system is just completely useless too, since it is just innaccurate, and if you're not lazy you can just judge people's skills when playing.
Filter system with map name is bad since there can be a lot of versions of the same map, author of the map seems more appropriate, along with map size, ping sort is irrelevant just like map name sort.
The automated host bots need to be gone, then MMH and ENT could be gone, any one who wants to host with a bot either can get a bot themselves or ask a friend with a bot for access.
Completely removing all hostbots is just a big big blunder and will kill all custom games.

 

[EredarArbeiterYU]

This is actually not how it works, and it never worked like that.

When the host from the game leaves, the game tries to re-negotiate a new host player. The issue in the past has been that, sometimes, the game would choose a player who does not have their ports forwarded, and subsequently disconnect everyone. I remember, in the past, it was kind of hit and miss, sometimes it would DC everyone, sometimes a new host would be re-elected and everything would be fine.

I imagine now that port-forwarding is no longer an issue, the game will always find another host and it will carry on.

Unless, of course, all games are now hosted on Blizz servers.

Ahh, I see. Thanks for the info.
But still server hosted games are an awesome thing. :] They allow for utility commands, and browsing games hosted on an online bot is actually easier atm then browsing through the Battle.net list. :x

 

[StoPCampinGn00b]

I think those angry have a right to be frustrated of the inevitable change, but I think some people are lacking perspective or are at the very least mis-remembering the past. I joined warcraft 3 a little over a decade ago and from my experience, it seemed like without a doubt that the majority were frustrated with bots. The most common complaint was that it was hard to find a game with all the bot and dota spam, the 24/7 dead lobbies and such. Over time, these people left, but who remained? The absolutely hardcore base of Warcraft 3 remained because they knew how to get access to bots and navigate in a 3rd party controlled community. The average player does not know how to do this, but what we see now is that the remaining community does because we're all concentrated on discord, the forums, etc. During the period of bots, any returning player who doesn’t know of resources like MMH and ENT or port forwarding is absolutely screwed.

Blizzard is obviously looking long term in satisfying a majority playerbase - that's what companies need to do and it is healthier for the game overall. I championed MakeMeHost and to an extent, ENT, for years on Hive and other communities despite never being a part of their staff. I understood how important these entities were in a time where hosting didn't look like they would be fixed even if there was a demographic who didn't like them. I think that main point missing here is that while bots kept the game alive on basically life support, there is little room for growth if bot communities are the ones in control. I don't blame the playerbase though, it's completely understandable to get used to the way it's been for a decade for them to change it. Changes like this usually mend over in time.

I think it is unfair to suggest that they're killing the game for fixing possibly the most requested problem in the Warcraft 3. I understand that they did only did what’s needed regarding ease of hosting, lobby numbers, and cross-realm - but I don’t think some people grasp how massive that is to be built in all at once in the actual client. Just because the elite community, for lack of better words, takes a blow right now, does not mean the casual userbase will not benefit. This dynamic plays out in lots of games and both sides don't see the opposing side since it's a matter of prestige vs majority. And while I understand that it is arguable that the majority of the current custom game player base right now will be affected, it's still a step forward to rebuilding the game for the majority throughout the years (the obvious market in any sort of return).

So my end point is that it is okay to be frustrated, but it is absurd and counterproductive to take an us vs Blizzard stance. Even if you believe that these changes are the end all, there is no use to rage, two wrongs don't make a right.

In addition, Blizzard has aware of all the features bots bring for years. I’m 100% sure of this as I myself and many others have explained this to them. They've received lists of all the bot features, they received links to all the bot resource and tutorial sites, they've had contacts from those who work within, and of course they've seen all the different arguments regarding bots for years and years. To me, it seems pretty obvious that there will be more to come for improve hosting and the overall online experience.

So if we take attention away from bots, and onto the actual features, you get:
1. A system where literally anyone can host
2. Lobby numbers in game
3. And cross-realm options
4. Less lobby spam and no more channel raid spam
In addition, no you don't get dropped if the host leaves. The download is faster and the cloud system is nice.

 

[~El]

I think those angry have a right to be frustrated of the inevitable change, but I think some people are lacking perspective or are at the very least mis-remembering the past. I joined warcraft 3 a little over a decade ago and from my experience, it seemed like without a doubt that the majority were frustrated with bots. The most common complaint was that it was hard to find a game with all the bot and dota spam, the 24/7 dead lobbies and such. Over time, these people left, but who remained? The absolutely hardcore base of Warcraft 3 remained because they knew how to get access to bots and navigate in a 3rd party controlled community. The average player does not know how to do this, but what we see now is that the remaining community does because we're all concentrated on discord, the forums, etc. During the period of bots, any returning player who doesn’t know of resources like MMH and ENT or port forwarding is absolutely screwed.

Blizzard is obviously looking long term in satisfying a majority playerbase - that's what companies need to do and it is healthier for the game overall. I championed MakeMeHost and to an extent, ENT, for years on Hive and other communities despite never being a part of their staff. I understood how important these entities were in a time where hosting didn't look like they would be fixed even if there was a demographic who didn't like them. I think that main point missing here is that while bots kept the game alive on basically life support, there is little room for growth if bot communities are the ones in control. I don't blame the playerbase though, it's completely understandable to get used to the way it's been for a decade for them to change it. Changes like this usually mend over in time.

I think it is unfair to suggest that they're killing the game for fixing possibly the most requested problem in the Warcraft 3. I understand that they did only did what’s needed regarding ease of hosting, lobby numbers, and cross-realm - but I don’t think some people grasp how massive that is to be built in all at once in the actual client. Just because the elite community, for lack of better words, takes a blow right now, does not mean the casual userbase will not benefit. This dynamic plays out in lots of games and both sides don't see the opposing side since it's a matter of prestige vs majority. And while I understand that it is arguable that the majority of the current custom game player base right now will be affected, it's still a step forward to rebuilding the game for the majority throughout the years (the obvious market in any sort of return).

So my end point is that it is okay to be frustrated, but it is absurd and counterproductive to take an us vs Blizzard stance. Even if you believe that these changes are the end all, there is no use to rage, two wrongs don't make a right.

In addition, Blizzard has aware of all the features bots bring for years. I’m 100% sure of this as I myself and many others have explained this to them. They've received lists of all the bot features, they received links to all the bot resource and tutorial sites, they've had contacts from those who work within, and of course they've seen all the different arguments regarding bots for years and years. To me, it seems pretty obvious that there will be more to come for improve hosting and the overall online experience.

So if we take attention away from bots, and onto the actual features, you get:
1. A system where literally anyone can host
2. Lobby numbers in game
3. And cross-realm options
4. Less lobby spam and no more channel raid spam
In addition, no you don't get dropped if the host leaves. The download is faster and the cloud system is nice.

I hope for the sake of everyone involved that this is not the only thing we'll have improved in regards to the default hosting system. There are some things that we grew so accustomed to, that without them, WC3 just feels plain incomptenet in comparison. Things like an online listing of games on a website are an absolute life-saver if you're looking to play a game, but don't want to boot up WC3 just yet. Making the game browser able to show more games, and take advantage of modern high-resolution screens (FullHD and higher) is something very much missing. Right now, while it is a step in the right direction, it is a massive downgrade. There's no need to rush this, but I am concerned, as well as everyone else here, that we will have to wait a long time for Blizzard to come to par with what the host bots provided.

I'm sure if this PTR was delayed and if they introduced at least a better game browser (filter by name, better refreshing, taking advantage of modern resolutions), far less people would complain. Some other additions, I'm sure, are also easy to implement, like a /latency command, a /kick command, so on, which are very, very, very useful in almost any game.

Once again, if Blizzard fully intends to implement additional features over time to bring regular hosting on par with bots, then this is just an issue of miscommunication - a very, very long-running issue. This could all have been avoided with a simple addition to the patch notes on what their future plans with regards to the hosting system are.

 

[klemen]

loled @ blizzard apologists.. Completely clueless. Without bots W3 would be dead in like 2010. The only thing that saved it was dedicated bot hosting and DotA/CG communities around it. Now suddenly after 10 years the bots are somehow a problem.. just lol.

 

[~El]

Interesting turn of events.

Reposted from ENT website.

Hello Humans, Orcs, Undead and Night elves.

For those of you wondering why you are unable to play that game of Legion TD, Vampirism or Dota you were so looking forward to, It is because We as Auto hosting Bot providers felt drastic measures were needed to show how much value we bring to the Warcraft 3 community. Not only do we provide a stable host for all to enjoy where we endeavor to keep the games clear of griefers and trolls but we also strive to keep games competitive by adding ranking systems and tracking your stats to ensure a more enjoyable experience.

Blizzard wants to remove Hosting bots from Warcraft 3. If they do, this is what it will be like for everyone. Fear not, for our services are only down temporarily but if we don't band together and convince Blizzard to change their mind, you will never be able to play that competitive custom game ever again.

Official message from all the following communities:

ENT Gaming, OHSystem, MYMGN, MMH, GhostPlay, Diplomunion.com, Werewolf Transylvania, MaulBot, Warcraft3.eu

I'm honestly surprised.

And, I think, this is a big mistake. This just shows everyone that custom host bot services cannot be relied upon, because they are subject to the whims of a few shitbags who want to make a void statement that will be ignored anyway. Good going, guys. Keep up the great work. Enjoy your last moments of relevance.

Because when this patch hits mainline, all of you are going to fade into irrelevance. And I don't think you can change jack shit about it by acting like a bunch of immature kids.

 

[YourArthas]

Interesting turn of events.

Reposted from ENT website.



I'm honestly surprised.

And, I think, this is a big mistake. This just shows everyone that custom host bot services cannot be relied upon, because they are subject to the whims of a few shitbags who want to make a void statement that will be ignored anyway. Good going, guys. Keep up the great work. Enjoy your last moments of relevance.

Because when this patch hits mainline, all of you are going to fade into irrelevance. And I don't think you can change jack shit about it by acting like a bunch of immature kids.

I think this is the exact right move to be honest,if they were ignoring the bots last chance would be gone directly

 

[~El]

I think this is the exact right move to be honest,if they were ignoring the bots last chance would be gone directly

I'm sorry, but Blizzard are going to do their thing regardless. They are still going to roll out this patch, because they already dedicated the manpower and money to make it happen.

What is ENT trying to show? How it will be without host bots? That's not an entirely honest statement. Yes, ranked bots and autohosted games will be gone, but a lot of people actually don't care for them. Most people will be relieved to see the game list free of the spam of empty lobbies, however flawed the UI is. The custom host function is almost entirely pointless now - because people will be able to host themselves. If Blizzard continues to update the game like some people here are implying, then eventually, it will catch up to hostbot functionality for 95% of the users.

ENT did wrong by pissing off the community even more, and are only instilling unnecessary conflict. I honestly doubt this will change anything. I took me about 2 minutes to forward my ports again and play without bots with my friends, boo-hoo, I don't miss ENT and MMH at all now.

Yes, it's shitty how Blizzard is handling this and they aren't doing right by the community, but neither is ENT and Co. are handling this right. People just want to play games, not take part in all this drama. And for all the crying and complaints and everything else that was thrown in Blizzard's direction, did it ever change anything? It can only change the course of future actions, but it cannot revert what was already done - simply because the resources and the time were already invested.

The ENT admin needs to grow up, and everyone else with him too.

 

[pick-a-chew]

I think those angry have a right to be frustrated of the inevitable change, but I think some people are lacking perspective or are at the very least mis-remembering the past. I joined warcraft 3 a little over a decade ago and from my experience, it seemed like without a doubt that the majority were frustrated with bots. The most common complaint was that it was hard to find a game with all the bot and dota spam, the 24/7 dead lobbies and such. Over time, these people left, but who remained? The absolutely hardcore base of Warcraft 3 remained because they knew how to get access to bots and navigate in a 3rd party controlled community. The average player does not know how to do this, but what we see now is that the remaining community does because we're all concentrated on discord, the forums, etc. During the period of bots, any returning player who doesn’t know of resources like MMH and ENT or port forwarding is absolutely screwed.

Blizzard is obviously looking long term in satisfying a majority playerbase - that's what companies need to do and it is healthier for the game overall. I championed MakeMeHost and to an extent, ENT, for years on Hive and other communities despite never being a part of their staff. I understood how important these entities were in a time where hosting didn't look like they would be fixed even if there was a demographic who didn't like them. I think that main point missing here is that while bots kept the game alive on basically life support, there is little room for growth if bot communities are the ones in control. I don't blame the playerbase though, it's completely understandable to get used to the way it's been for a decade for them to change it. Changes like this usually mend over in time.

I think it is unfair to suggest that they're killing the game for fixing possibly the most requested problem in the Warcraft 3. I understand that they did only did what’s needed regarding ease of hosting, lobby numbers, and cross-realm - but I don’t think some people grasp how massive that is to be built in all at once in the actual client. Just because the elite community, for lack of better words, takes a blow right now, does not mean the casual userbase will not benefit. This dynamic plays out in lots of games and both sides don't see the opposing side since it's a matter of prestige vs majority. And while I understand that it is arguable that the majority of the current custom game player base right now will be affected, it's still a step forward to rebuilding the game for the majority throughout the years (the obvious market in any sort of return).

So my end point is that it is okay to be frustrated, but it is absurd and counterproductive to take an us vs Blizzard stance. Even if you believe that these changes are the end all, there is no use to rage, two wrongs don't make a right.

In addition, Blizzard has aware of all the features bots bring for years. I’m 100% sure of this as I myself and many others have explained this to them. They've received lists of all the bot features, they received links to all the bot resource and tutorial sites, they've had contacts from those who work within, and of course they've seen all the different arguments regarding bots for years and years. To me, it seems pretty obvious that there will be more to come for improve hosting and the overall online experience.

So if we take attention away from bots, and onto the actual features, you get:
1. A system where literally anyone can host
2. Lobby numbers in game
3. And cross-realm options
4. Less lobby spam and no more channel raid spam
In addition, no you don't get dropped if the host leaves. The download is faster and the cloud system is nice.

This guy gets it.

People have already jumped the gun with this host bot closure protest whilst the Classics Team are still reiterating their 1.30.2 intentions. It borderlines scaremongering although it fails to hit the mark, "Oh great, now I know what it'll be like to play without 1.30.2's privileges AND without host bots". It's disappointing to see a huge part of the community react so brashly towards blizzards next ambitious step in their plan to modernize Warcraft 3.

 

[kantarion]

Dear Blizz before you do something like deleting bots : 1.Plz make sure your refresh system in custom list is working well ,do radical movements there

2. To do that you need do another interface , those padding system is annoying,extend the visible area of custom game list DUDES its 21 centuary...

Do you really expect me to click refresh,then in a few sec list got updated which create a chaos in a list,then i must SCROLL to see the names of custom games,then list updates again and shit happens,then i click on game which is actually DEAD,then there is no way to exit wc3 even with alt-tab,only task menager helps.
In a mean while if i want chat with a friend,i must return to chat loby,then if i enter again in custom list lobby = i already lost visual concept + i cant memorize games = cause visally the system is done very bad.

3.Extend the list of filters

4.Advice : Never send a plague to a world (without an actual desire to wipe out whole humanity,but rather to accomplish a specific goal) , without creating a vaccine before all of it .

You actually destroyed modding in 1 hand, magos and mdlvs arent working anymore on newest patches . On the other hand, on previous it works. So,what regular modding person deos is stay on 1.28,or try to have both old and new version = which commonly gives a conflict due installing,or starting wc3 .Not to mention regedit . Also , you never provided a soltion for those radical movements.

Third party software are created by community for easier handing,pleasure with desire to create new things. On the other hand, you are not alllowed to be involve in tool creation and custom map creation RIGHT? What is a solition? Do i have to mention how that cartoon style firm took over a custom game Dota from you and made it standalone - created on your own engine,in your community enviroment,spirit whatever !

Also, you cant rly expect final users to every patch do things manually,with directions how to do it on this forum,no metter how benevolent your hive-blizz members are.

I will give you a solution how 1 older moba game did it ,which took all benefit from Dota 1.Look at it plz

 

[Civil]

Taking all of the bots offline will alert most of the community as to what is coming on the next patch, when they would otherwise have not read the forum. Now they can give their opinion on the matter instead of the minority here being all that Blizzard reads.

This petition has been shared throughout the Warcraft 3 community. Petition unterschreiben I urge you to sign if you want the hosting bots to stay.

ENT did wrong by pissing off the community even more, and are only instilling unnecessary conflict. I honestly doubt this will change anything. I took me about 2 minutes to forward my ports again and play without bots with my friends, boo-hoo, I don't miss ENT and MMH at all now.

Those servers are paid for by members of the community, and they can take them down if they wish. They provide a service for free which we invest time and money in running. Blizzard gave no indication that they were going to disable hostbots in the next patch, and to spring this on the community with no warning is what created conflict in the first place.

 

[juvian]

I'm sorry, but Blizzard are going to do their thing regardless. They are still going to roll out this patch, because they already dedicated the manpower and money to make it happen.

What is ENT trying to show? How it will be without host bots? That's not an entirely honest statement. Yes, ranked bots and autohosted games will be gone, but a lot of people actually don't care for them. Most people will be relieved to see the game list free of the spam of empty lobbies, however flawed the UI is. The custom host function is almost entirely pointless now - because people will be able to host themselves. If Blizzard continues to update the game like some people here are implying, then eventually, it will catch up to hostbot functionality for 95% of the users.

ENT did wrong by pissing off the community even more, and are only instilling unnecessary conflict. I honestly doubt this will change anything. I took me about 2 minutes to forward my ports again and play without bots with my friends, boo-hoo, I don't miss ENT and MMH at all now.

Yes, it's shitty how Blizzard is handling this and they aren't doing right by the community, but neither is ENT and Co. are handling this right. People just want to play games, not take part in all this drama. And for all the crying and complaints and everything else that was thrown in Blizzard's direction, did it ever change anything? It can only change the course of future actions, but it cannot revert what was already done - simply because the resources and the time were already invested.

The ENT admin needs to grow up, and everyone else with him too.

Funny, in my country all transport or professors go on strike when the goverments screws them over, and no one tells them to grow up . "Most people will be relieved to see the game list free of the spam of empty lobbies". Make a filter to hide bot games if that is a problem, no need to kill bots to solve it. "The custom host function is almost entirely pointless now - because people will be able to host themselves". I have been able to host myself for years, yet never did it because other people would have impossible to play with delay. Games being hosted by blizzard should fix this yes (although at current ptr delay is insane) but regardless that is in no way the only reason to use bots. Me and many others wouldn't choose to play without reconnection tools, as we do not live in first world countries and have unstable internet, someone would dc without reconnection on 70% of my games. "If Blizzard continues to update the game like some people here are implying" while that sounds very nice, I just see old problems like desyncs still not fixed and instead of solving those, introducing new potential problems. I think they are reshing a bit with everything, too many changes at once. "People just want to play games, not take part in all this drama". Exactly, yet since 1.30 I have to deprotect maps to make them hostable on 1.30, and some others don't work because of desyncs. "ENT did wrong by pissing off the community even more". Guess free services don't have the right to piss off the community like a paid service like blizzard has

 

[~El]

Guess free services don't have the right to piss off the community like a paid service like blizzard has

I just don't think this is a good move or that it will accomplish anything. Blizzard has a monopoly on WC3, they are not required to listen to the whims of the community. Yes, I would prefer that they kept host bots and added an option to filter them, but I can't imagine them keeping host bots around after they introduced encryption to WC3's protocol and binaries. They clearly don't want anyone using bots.

I don't think this is even about the Classic team's decision, I am sure this is some kind of legal/corporate bullshit leaking from Blizzard's upper management.

 

[Jouven]

1. A system where literally anyone can host
2. Lobby numbers in game
3. And cross-realm options
4. Less lobby spam and no more channel raid spam
In addition, no you don't get dropped if the host leaves. The download is faster and the cloud system is nice.

1 Anyone can have bot if it has extra keys and the know how to set it up (bots aren't free they require an extra pair of keys) and anyone with the knowledge to setup ports could always host. But my main point here is being able to host doesn't mean you should host, players want fair multiplayer and won't stand for the "host player with no delay while the rest gets lag" setup knowing something better exists/ed
2 Ghost++ + gproxy does that (gproxy doesn't work anymore on the official servers)
3 Ghost++ already does that, they even connect with PVPGN servers
4 Already addressed this point in a previous post, I don't know about the channel raid spam issue, first time I see it mentioned
5 "In addition, no you don't get dropped if the host leaves" Doesn't apply or see point 6
6 Ghost++ + gproxy has a reconnection feature
7 Download speed can be set on the bot configuration so it can be faster than blizzard cloud system, provided the host is faster, but tbh I haven't seen anyone complaining about map dl speed

The move that blizzard is planning, removing the ability to use bots, is akin to removing the ability to have dedicated servers on a FPS game like Counter-strike, it wouldn't go down well

Regardless of features or if they kill the bots or X, if they, or someone else, don't address the issue I explained @point 1, that will be deal breaker for most of the current multiplayer community or anyone not playing on a lan

PD: I think ENT did the right thing because, IMO, Blizzard won't back about this, in the end they'll lose the ability to run the bots, at least this way the raise awareness of the situation

 

[DracoL1ch]

Pls someone enlight blizzard: players asked for removing bot-abuse with ladder games when bot intentionally feeds to his owner, not for removing ghost bots :LUL:

 

[StoPCampinGn00b]

I think you missed the point Jouven, I'm not saying that these features are new. I'm saying that now, they are more accessible. You shouldn't have to visit or use 3rd party tools to just host a game more effectively than the outdated port-forwarding, that's the bottom line. Obviously, it is a problem for those who are accustomed to using bots for various reasons, but for the majority, it won't be in time.

Also, raising awareness to a situation where there is no chance to win your side doesn't do anything lol.

 

[Radicool]

I think those angry have a right to be frustrated of the inevitable change, but I think some people are lacking perspective or are at the very least mis-remembering the past. I joined warcraft 3 a little over a decade ago and from my experience, it seemed like without a doubt that the majority were frustrated with bots. The most common complaint was that it was hard to find a game with all the bot and dota spam, the 24/7 dead lobbies and such. Over time, these people left, but who remained? The absolutely hardcore base of Warcraft 3 remained because they knew how to get access to bots and navigate in a 3rd party controlled community. The average player does not know how to do this, but what we see now is that the remaining community does because we're all concentrated on discord, the forums, etc. During the period of bots, any returning player who doesn’t know of resources like MMH and ENT or port forwarding is absolutely screwed.

Blizzard is obviously looking long term in satisfying a majority playerbase - that's what companies need to do and it is healthier for the game overall. I championed MakeMeHost and to an extent, ENT, for years on Hive and other communities despite never being a part of their staff. I understood how important these entities were in a time where hosting didn't look like they would be fixed even if there was a demographic who didn't like them. I think that main point missing here is that while bots kept the game alive on basically life support, there is little room for growth if bot communities are the ones in control. I don't blame the playerbase though, it's completely understandable to get used to the way it's been for a decade for them to change it. Changes like this usually mend over in time.

I think it is unfair to suggest that they're killing the game for fixing possibly the most requested problem in the Warcraft 3. I understand that they did only did what’s needed regarding ease of hosting, lobby numbers, and cross-realm - but I don’t think some people grasp how massive that is to be built in all at once in the actual client. Just because the elite community, for lack of better words, takes a blow right now, does not mean the casual userbase will not benefit. This dynamic plays out in lots of games and both sides don't see the opposing side since it's a matter of prestige vs majority. And while I understand that it is arguable that the majority of the current custom game player base right now will be affected, it's still a step forward to rebuilding the game for the majority throughout the years (the obvious market in any sort of return).

So my end point is that it is okay to be frustrated, but it is absurd and counterproductive to take an us vs Blizzard stance. Even if you believe that these changes are the end all, there is no use to rage, two wrongs don't make a right.

In addition, Blizzard has aware of all the features bots bring for years. I’m 100% sure of this as I myself and many others have explained this to them. They've received lists of all the bot features, they received links to all the bot resource and tutorial sites, they've had contacts from those who work within, and of course they've seen all the different arguments regarding bots for years and years. To me, it seems pretty obvious that there will be more to come for improve hosting and the overall online experience.

So if we take attention away from bots, and onto the actual features, you get:
1. A system where literally anyone can host
2. Lobby numbers in game
3. And cross-realm options
4. Less lobby spam and no more channel raid spam
In addition, no you don't get dropped if the host leaves. The download is faster and the cloud system is nice.

Well said. I wholeheartedly agree. Also the point about host leaving and others NOT disconnecting is reassuring to know.

1 With the new patch anyone will be able to host, over-saturation will still exist. The concept of "supply and demand" doesn't apply here, the game list is not a market.
3 Hostbots don't do what they want, they do what a normal user can do with the official warcraft 3 client, plus some gimmicks that blizzard has allowed like hosting without actively playing
4 Playing a game hosted by a bot doesn't require extra software/tools
5 The same data you can collect hosting a game using the official warcraft 3 client plus running diagnostic tools in your OS is the same a bot can get

1. Perhaps, but there will be no empty lobbies anymore. I'm inclined to think there will be less spam. How about we wait and see how things change? I just took a look at the game list on US West server. There were 5 Footmen Frenzy games. They were all empty, 0 2 people in them. I would imagine a person is less likely to host duplicates if there is an existing game to play. I sat in a lobby for 15 minutes then left. It hadn't yet started. I tried a couple of different lobbies too.
3. They do do what they want. Lots of people have been upset about how Hostbots operate. For the most part, it could be mostly improved on the Hostbots end yet they haven't.
4. Users cannot setup a Hostbot without using third party tools.
5. Great you agree with me! They can collect data on individuals. I wonder if users consent to this in the Warcraft 3 terms and conditions. Probably not.

 

[juvian]

I think you missed the point Jouven, I'm not saying that these features are new. I'm saying that now, they are more accessible. You shouldn't have to visit or use 3rd party tools to just host a game more effectively than the outdated port-forwarding, that's the bottom line. Obviously, it is a problem for those who are accustomed to using bots for various reasons, but for the majority, it won't be in time.

Also, raising awareness to a situation where there is no chance to win your side doesn't do anything lol.

"You shouldn'd have to visit or use 3rd party tools to just host a game". Yet I have to use mpq editor to play some maps, and 1.28 to play others. Yes, you can say that blizzard will eventually fix it (which I seriously doubt) but even if they do, that game community is already ded, and would require another year of effort to reach the same point. "but for the majority, it won't be in time". Its unfortunate that we have no way to track these things, so we shall never know. I see the need to add new features, don't see the need to kill old.

 

[Tal'Rarity]

I just don't think this is a good move or that it will accomplish anything. Blizzard has a monopoly on WC3, they are not required to listen to the whims of the community. Yes, I would prefer that they kept host bots and added an option to filter them, but I can't imagine them keeping host bots around after they introduced encryption to WC3's protocol and binaries. They clearly don't want anyone using bots.

I don't think this is even about the Classic team's decision, I am sure this is some kind of legal/corporate bullshit leaking from Blizzard's upper management.

Blizzard gave up their monopoly as soon as they released their games for anyone to buy, they no longer have any such monopolies as the control of WC3 RoC and TFT is fully in the hands of its players. When Battle.net fails there is always the choice of more stable and improved servers that are free to join and play for anyone, just have to hope for easier guides to find onto there.

Though I am looking forward to the results of a continually updated WC3.

 

[Scytharius]

It is about time bots are removed and everyone can now host on their own. Super happy about this.

 

[item]

The most common complaint was that it was hard to find a game with all the bot and dota spam, the 24/7 dead lobbies and such. Over time, these people left, but who remained? ... I think it is unfair to suggest that they're killing the game for fixing possibly the most requested problem in the Warcraft 3.

First, I have to say that I saw these requests, but they were always minor and usually related to someone wanting to play with friends and not being able to port forward (and when playing with friends, a sorted game list is the least needed since you can just tell them that name or host anonymously anyway).

I like the cross realm hosting and all the advantages, but the disadvantages are just too severe. Why not implement a filter that is turned on by default that excludes empty lobbies from being displayed? Or povide an API for bots and filter those games?
I don't mind, please go ahead and allow this "cloud-hosting" of maps, but don't destroy everything else!

 

[_lycan]

loled @ blizzard apologists.. Completely clueless. Without bots W3 would be dead in like 2010. The only thing that saved it was dedicated bot hosting and DotA/CG communities around it. Now suddenly after 10 years the bots are somehow a problem.. just lol.

Lol? no

 

[lord_Turin]

If this will go live it will frustrate a large part of the community. Even though it seems there are a few of you that would like to see the bots gone i am sure that a LARGE part of the community only plays through the bots, i am one of those. And with me a community of at least 500+ people. And i bet there are more communities out there that function the same way.

Even if they improve the UI of game search dramatically AND add a website that shows the games hosted (i don't go online to see which games are hosted, i just visit MMH or ENT to see if it's worth going online).
The games will not have the same functionality as bot games.

And knowing blizzards speed with changing things. They will release the patch maybe work to improve it for another 4 months to a year and then release improvements over time. By that time a lot of players will have gotten fed up and left.


Sad times after getting back to more active gaming and modding.
What's next? remove all custom maps based licenced sources? remove all maps that have imported data which is questionable? remove all custom maps?

 

[Abovegame]

This will impact the game for sure, but again people can host their maps with ease now. There was a time when bots didn't exist although Warcraft was more popular back then.

Nevertheless i expect to see some unknown custom maps being hosted and i am looking forward to see what we get as this patch goes live.

 

[Anders458]

StopCampinGn00b is pretty much spot on. What do bots and all of the other tos-violating 3rd party programs provide that Blizzard cannot in the long-term? I can't think of anything.

On the other hand, what can Blizzard provide long-term that 3rd party programs absolutely cannot ever provide? Surely you've already thought of something.

--

ENT, MMH and all of the other communities that have gone on 'strike' is simply appalling, childish behaviour from WC's "leaders". Their official post from ENT: "Blizzard wants to remove Hosting bots from Warcraft 3. If they do, this is what it will be like for everyone". What a disingenuous statement... Blizzard has not even released their replacement for bots yet so there is no available alternative.

So what if the hosting services become obsolete. Will ENT's community suddenly disband if they don't have a "Host a Game" link? Is their traffic really that reliant on people begging to be unbanned for leaving a game early?

Sorry for sounding passionate about that particular issue but the prevailing image of the current leadership folding their arms and shaking their heads at Blizzard... I am sorry to say I think that is a contemptible response.

--

All of that said, with the bumpy release of the previous several patches, it is definitely understandable that people would be skeptical Blizzard can actually deliver a reasonable replacement for the bots. Having looked at the PTR, they still have quite a bit of work to do . However, the premise of replacing hostbots with a native solution is brilliant.

 

[DracoL1ch]

sure there were a time when bots didn't exist. Time of lags, disconnects, drophacks, mass leavers - nobody cares, no stats tracked, nothing to achieve. Bots gave u everything. Blizzard trying to take it away with little filthy nonsense excuses. Yeah. Keep it going.

 

[takakenji]

i think this change is going to stick a good dick in my butt

 

[Biggrouse]

i think this change is going to stick a good dick in my butt

I can't believe that over 10 years later you are still coming to this website to torment and troll me. Do you realize that you have ruined. my. god. damn. LIFE?????????????????

 

[SpasMaster]

I think that people aren't seeing the end-goal here. (understandably so, because we don't have an official such statement from Blizzard so far, but I will pick that back up later)
But think about this for a second: Generally speaking, does a modern game need bots and/or third party software to function correctly? Cause the answer is no. Do you need bots to play League of Legends, Starcraft 2 or Counter-Strike? No you don't.

Warcraft III, however, as a game that is not modern (and until few years back it wasn't even being actively developed) ended up using the functionalities of the host-bots to circumvent the issues that it came along with. The host bots provided solutions to issues that were present with the game itself: If the host left, you are screwed. No stat tracking. Higher ping.

But what if these issues didn't exist in the first place? Then you wouldn't need the bots at all. The host-bots are an answer to an issue. IF there is no issue, then there is no need for an answer.
I happen to get the idea that Blizzard is taking steps in that direction and the PTR we see is the first of them. I mean, do I want to live in a world where bots are needed to circumvent issues, or do I want a world with no issues and therefore no bots? It is the latter 100% for me.

So the way I see it, Blizzard are doing changes with the end-goal of removing the need to use host-bots. I mean, take a look at one of the changes that comes with this PTR: "Port-forwarding is no longer required to host". Well, folks, that means that when the host disconnects or leaves, the game won't disconnect the rest of the players. Does that sound familiar? Cause as far as I remember, that's one of the issues that host-bots were preventing. An issue that would now be gone, so you can scratch it off from the list of features that host-bots were providing. Because now it is provided by the game itself. So is it so wrong, for the developers to be trying to achieve that goal? To have the game itself not present those issues and to offer solutions to them without relying on host-bots and third party software? Because to me it isn't and I fully support the changes and the direction that they are going for.

The real issue here is the lack of official statement about these goals and philosophies. Blizzard never said that they are aiming towards solving all issues that the game has, that are currently solved by host-bots. There is evidence here and there, and one can only assume that that's what they are doing, but unless we get an official statement, it's all assumptions in the end of the day.

Because if Blizzard is thinking that they need to take 5 steps in order to solve the issues that currently require host bots, and what we are seeing on the patch is Step 1, then that's great. However, without a statement telling us that they do actually have those 5 steps in mind, we end up with situations like the current one: People only look at what is presented to them - which is the PTR. They see a small piece of the picture, because that's all that Blizzard has given them to see. And in that small piece of the picture they see a game with 10 (random number) issues, and solution to only 1 of them, while the problem solver (the host-bots) for the rest of the 9 issues is also getting removed. So people start complaining, (understandably so), because without the problem solver, they now have 9 issues that they didn't have before.

What I have to tell to the community is to think logically here. This isn't the last patch for Warcraft. There will be plenty more coming. It's pretty clear that this patch is a first step towards ending up with a game where host-bots would not be needed at all. It's going to be frustrating at the beginning, but try to think long-term here. Because despite Blizzard not giving us their long-term goals, there surely are such, because that's how game development works.

What I have to tell to Blizzard is to share their goals and plans for the game to the community in order to prevent situations of confusion and frustration out of lack of information. Tell people that right now host-bots solve issues that you actually have plans to address. It would not only be beneficial for you, the developer, as you would get feedback about your plans in advance, but it would also give people a clearer idea of your intentions, thus preventing frustration.

 

[YourArthas]

Wasn't it better to solve all 10 slowly in the background while keeping the 3rd party solution till it is done? Or is it better to push 1 solution and break 9 things with a 3rd party solution and develop 9 more patches each month(?) and break the game for nearly a year?

 

[DracoL1ch]

Who cares what do they wanna do later? They can ditch wc3 just like diablo2, no problems about doing so. Or implement those 5 stages by one per year. Or w/e. Stop making assumings that there are totally good people with only pure intents of healing community (which never asked for that either). Get real and see what actually happens. People get frustrated by being unable to play their lovely game for a day. With blizzard's well known slow updates it may take ages. Where you gonna go? Wheres your stats going which you were crambling all those years before? The only thing I know for real, blizz dont care about that. Not a single fuck.

 

[kantarion]

Warcraft 3 is an old game,which is hard to raise to a modern level. It is hard to see the bigger picture how to do it to blizz.

The answer is to actually HEAR and WATCH what community actualy DOES,look at the actual WORK and behave towards it.

You cant just delete bots just cause some hive members are agaisnt it . You are listening the voice of people who never created aything greater to improve the game,and throwing people who actually did created things. This is the key solution. You look at the actualy WORK of community, embrace it and improve - or implement at least at almost same level they did .

Why do i have to use Skype to send game name to my friend WHICH IS on other realm. I can not whisper him,cause blizzard didnt allow me to whisper him?Got it?
You need to change interface,and allow both chat/friendlist and game list in same window.And get rid of padding window and annoying chains in interface ffs its 21 centuary.NO I WILL NOT USE NETEASE. I want play warcraft 3,login,hit and PLAY. I dont wanna come here,asking for advices how to use it,manually implement ANYTHING.
It is your duty and job if you want sell the game.You tricked us all,i already bought cd keys and now i have to live all of it. Return my money!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You cant come delete the bots AND ITS SYSTEM WE ALREADY GOT, let us wait for 1 year the system get improved for a greater good .

Face the truth, original bnet is way more empty now than before 12 year ago.

By just killing bots and just letting people be private hosts, this will happen in reality : 10 people will host a same avarage popilar custom game on dead game in a interface system that doesnt WORK.Regular player who search dont have an insight of how many for exmaple Werewolf Tranylvania games are created.

With bots,i can know how many games are created,i know whos in,whats their ping,i know when new game will be created if lobby is full.


With private host system,none of us will ever be able to actualy start a game cause we will be scattered in 10 same games by different private hosts. And cause we dont have an insight how many people are ingame.

This will waste time of all people ,and at the end they will cancel a game.
In eality this lasts about 20-40 min.

Then they will try enter another game,and same thing happens. Then after that they just EXIT bnet.
This is how you kill a game and community .This is a reality.

Mulitply this practice with 2-3 months ,ppl will get sick of an old game and leave forever.This is how i left long long ago.Then i saw modding community , hear a rumor of Warcraft Remaster etc. Then blizz come and kill its tools

Your colegues from WoW before they settle new patch to be played officialy, are already finishing at least 50% of future PTR patch.

However you delete things,and dont provide any solution. In next comment i will provide you a very specific changes you will have to do BEFORE YOU DELETE bots,if thats your stuborn goal. I will not write novels like this. Maybe then you will understand bigger picture of what are you doing! Lets hope situation will get clearer

 

[Frotty]

@SpasMaster Didn't read the whole wall of text, I think the bottom line is that blizzard has shown how incompetent they are at handling topics that concern the community and I expect their new "hosting" to be released as a broken mess maybe months from now. Time and time again it has been obvious that they miss any good testing suite, organization structure like SCRUM and don't do much testing themselves. This sheer ignorance in 2018 brings my blood to a boil.

It has been over 6 months since the first announcement of official patches, and the only thing worth it for me was the widescreen patch. Everything else I literally couldn't care less about.
The only major thing i noticed is all community stuff and maps being broken, continuing with the hosting now. Maps are still broken. The game has been unplayable for many for months, and instead of focusing on these fixes, they add more buggy stuff on top that is prone to cause issues. Even if in 3 months everything works perfectly, the damage has been done.

You look at the actualy WORK of community, embrace it and improve - or implement at least at almost same level they did

You wish

e: The main "business" thing here is that wc3 doesn't make money and is basically just a burden. Blizzard's cash cows hearthstone and overwatch make the wc3 customer irrelevant. Thus as stopcampingn00b said, this isn't gonna change anything, they don't have to care about the customer here. It's just a contingency to keep wc3 aligned with company tech.

 

[terrio]

@SpasMaster Didn't read the whole wall of text, I think the bottom line is that blizzard has shown how incompetent they are at handling topics that concern the community and I expect their new "hosting" to be released as a broken mess maybe months from now. Time and time again it has been obvious that they miss any good testing suite, organization structure like SCRUM and don't do much testing themselves. This sheer ignorance in 2018 brings my blood to a boil.

It has been over 6 months since the first announcement of official patches, and the only thing worth it for me was the widescreen patch. Everything else I literally couldn't care less about.
The only major thing i noticed is all community stuff and maps being broken, continuing with the hosting now. Maps are still broken. The game has been unplayable for many for months, and instead of focusing on these fixes, they add more buggy stuff on top that is prone to cause issues. Even if in 3 months everything works perfectly, the damage has been done.


You wish

after testing the ptr, i can confirm the current state of the new hosting system is huge pile of crap

 

[EredarArbeiterYU]

I'll miss the ability to change game names while in lobby, or to set up a timely repeated message informing people of the game mode we play or rules so we don't need to explain to each new person that joins. Or to kick a toxic troll player upon unfortunate occasions that those happen. AND to swap positions in the game via simple command instead of having to have one player leave (when the game is full) so that the other person can go in their spot and hope a 3rd person won't ninja their way in to his spot! :c
If we can do these simple ease-of-life things in normally hosted Battle.net games then cool but if not - shit...

 

[mwsdevcom]

Just tested game hosting on PTR.
1. 2 players. Ping: host 60ms, me 800+ms. Host leaves, game continues, my ping becomes 60.
Note: Downloaded map on game list, joined and for some reason redownloaded it old way.
2. 3 players. Host: 40ms, me and player >700ms. Host leaves, we get disconnected.
Note: Downloaded map only once on game list screen.
3. I host standart melee map, nobody can join.
4. I join game and get kicked(by system).
5. 3 players, same situation as in 2.
6. I host again, nobody can join.
7. I join game, my game crashes.
8. 2 players, Host 120ms, me 700ms. Host leaves, game continues, my ping becomes 60.

Note: my typical ping to EU servers is 40-60, to US: ~110.

 

[Rui]

So far I've refrained from commenting harshly on these changelogs, and even welcomed a few. But dumping hostbots of a sudden, with no prior notice, and no hints of a viable alternative? Seems imprudent, to say the least. I can agree with what's branded as the "long-term view" — that, I assume, is decent hosting services (I see no mention of that anywhere, however, which seems like a sign of no compromise from Blizzard). But where's the short-term option? Those were host bots. I don't understand the logic behind taking away one thing, before you're ready to give the other. What're we supposed to do with the void in-between?

Besides, server hosting may cover benefits offered by host bots. But we already know it won't track stats, and won't allow votekicking or banning. As mentioned by @opium911, the practical effects of the rules were positive (much better than I'd expect, actually). I never witnessed these features being misused in popular bots. Only once was I banned off a GHost without cause, and I made an appeal and got myself unbanned. Some players install a rotten environment of competitiveness, abuse, team-killing, laming, feeding, griefing, trolling, toxicity and general game screwing that reaches unbearable levels. It's a movie I can watch anytime if I log in DotA 2. And I did, until I got fed up. These players are left at large, you keep catching them in games, again and again, and you simply can't get rid of them.

I fully understand the need to sometimes make changes that are hard to make backwards-compatible. I myself am affected by the drop of support for Windows XP, and I don't complain, because it's an understandable option. This decision, however, seems like a targeted change that comes out of the blue, for no apparent reason, with no benefits whatsoever. If you have the community covering some issue with third party tools or other unconventional mechanics, that should be viewed as a good thing because it allows you to direct your efforts elsewhere. What seems incomprehensible is going out of your way to intentionally screw them. More and more I get the feeling that a stable realm fixed in 1.26 was called for before any of these updates. If the changes were good enough, people would eventually move.

 

[Parasect]

organization structure like SCRUM

Do you think so? Wouldn't go that far. They're not some out of the loop company, there's no way a multi billion dollar company doesn't keep up with the industry's standards. PTR is their testing phase. Apparently the PTR is a big part in their development process, and they probably won't roll out the patch when the community is that much dissatisfied.

By the way, sticking to development patterns doesn't guarantee a quality product.

 

[4rum_Arts]

Korean users do not go to the public game room on the Asian server because of the host bot. This is because the room created by ordinary users is continuously pushed out by the host bot.
So, they are gathered on the channel to play a private game or go to a free server.
You know the advantages of the host room, but have you ever thought that most of the maps will be hurt because of the maps that use the features of some of them?

 

[Barade]

It might suck for the communities which rely on hostbots but for normal players who just want to play a game, it's a relief.
My Internet provider does not even support port forwarding with IPv4 anymore on their router configurations.

Blizzard should also lower the price of the game since it is really old and integrate it into their blizzard app or just move all their games to Steam
You have to think about getting new players to play this game and new players don't want to setup any hostbot or use some for autohosting etc. they just want to play a game the easiest way possible.
Of course, it would also be great to have some hostbot integrated into wc3 by Blizzard themselves to create auto hosting servers or to keep support for the existing hostbots but I think it is more important to get new players to play this game.

The best thing they have done for a game like AoE 2 was to dd it to steam.
You can just host a game and invite your friends etc. and people to started playing it again.

 

[A]mun]

^ AoE2 HD is actually doing fine these days, really a shining example of how to modernize an old title.

WC3 on the other hand...
is having a limb cut off here, some fixes (demanding new fixes) applied there and shoved around brutally with ? what reason ?
I only hope it pays off in the end, right now it feels like a draught where everyone's waiting for rain.

But i'm also scratching my head in hindsight of the recent years, since it seems that it would've paid off by now, had Blizz started the development of Warcraft IV?!
On the other hand, we know of one developer who seemingly won't/can't count to three with their major titles, even though we all know it is bound to happen one day.

Im mean really, there will be a fourth Warcraft, right?

 

[Kacpa2]

It's great to see native hosting fixed.
However i have few issues with it(it also instantly ended after map started i tried earlier today i will try few more later)
All/most of bot functionality should be replicated in some way. Kicking, player stats, adjustable latency, slot swaping and so on.

Local storage should be available as some option. Dling them in lobby may help when people try to reserve slots or test some map privately. Latter isnt probably an issue since it cant ve recovered by other people who didnt play it so maybe its ok that say.

Bots could be still around maybe with option to filter them and native ingsme hosted games apart.

Some kind of map maker status and map archives that hosting services like ent offer could be useful. I like to know how often my map is hosted and to control ehich versions are up. It could help to weed out hacks or cheated versions of maps and so on.

Games list like bot sites offer would be great. To see lovbies outside the game client in general.

Outside if these things its looking great. I'm just a bit concerned about loss of all of that functionality.

It will also mean that customs in Reign of Chaos may see atleast slight resurgence :v

And i missed that......stamping click sound
Game starts in 5....
Game starts in 4....
Game starts in 3....
Game starts in 2....
Game starts in 1....

PS another issue that i dunno of was fixed.....music MUST play when loading.. not just ....cut off when loading screen comes up and comeback after its done...... Unless it was already fixed

 

[pyf]

[...] Blizzard should also lower the price of the game since it is really old [...]

@Barade: Admit it, you want the price of the game to be a negative number.

 

[~El]

So, it seems that the game is actually still hosted on the Host's PC, and that all traffic gets proxied through a location in US West on the PTR.

I have come to this conclusion based on the following:
1. Connecting players to a proxy is one sure way of implementing a system where nobody needs to forward ports, and has the benefit of hiding IP addresses. Good.
2. The Host always has a low ping, around 50-60 ms, despite the proxying.
3. Other players got disconnected when I closed my game.
4. If both the host, and the players are far away from the proxying location, e.g. Eastern Europe, then those players will have huge ping. I tested this with a couple of other friends from Eastern Europe, and their pings were in the ballpark of 600-800 ms. This seems to add up, if the traffic is routed through US West, since the average ping to US West from Eastern Europe is around 200-300 ms.

This is, frankly, embarassing, compared to host bots. Host bots worked even for users playing on US West from Eastern Europe, because the Bot assumed the role of the host, and thus, no player in the game was the true host, so the traffic didn't have to take such a long round-trip to reach other players.

@Kam , I highly suggest you guys transition to the same system that host bots used, where the Bot itself was the Host, and all traffic was directly routed by it, rather than proxying traffic to the host through some location. While this means that the owner of the lobby might have a higher ping, the rest of the players will have similar pings, depending on their location.

This MUST be fixed. Honestly, this is an embarassment on behalf of the Classic team, in my opinion - GHost and other host bot implementations had it figured out for years, all you guys have to do, is implement a similar system.

It is simply unacceptable for players to have such a high ping when not playing on their native realm. I, personally, always play on US East even though I'm from Europe, because most my friends are from the US. Please, fix.

 

[DracoL1ch]

@Barade: Admit it, you want the price of the game to be a negative number.

years ago people got paid for making quality assurance. Now it's called PTR

 

[pyf]

Everybody loves free ponies.

 

[Kacpa2]

Warcraft IV?!

There are so many reasons for why there is no need nor possiblity for WC4.

WC3 has become eternal game like Team Fortress 2 or CSGO League of legends or Dota 2.....there cant ever be a seqeul to it.

For different(and same reasons in case of games like TF2) reasons. 1st and foremlst community and all ckntent made by it for the game which is gigantic pool of models, skins, art, coding and trigger solutions and maps that use these.

Older games didnt have that at all or it was marginal like with Starcraft 1(tho we still got maps like Aeon of strife but sc1's mapping scene is non existant in comparison to wc3's)

2nd reason is story.....wow took up(and butchered main story for most part, but wow still did some nice miscellaneous and local regional lore) the main story despite mmo's being rather bad in long run with that just cuz of its gameplay needs which demands leveling and end game content.
And wow is probably going to last for few decades unless it gets some playerbase extinction event.....There is nothing that WC4 can offer that we didnt do. We got campaigns based and derivating from wow story like wrath of the lich king and dosens of other stories in campaigns and maps.

3rd reason...Wcr has nothing to offer gameplay wise that wc3 already doesnt have or custom maps for it dont. All of what can be done are pretty much tweaks to wc3 itself.

All of custom mapde content would be lost if wc4 came out and judging by how sc2 does in this regard.....customs scene would die.

WC3 needs tweaks, patches and fixes.