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Patch 1.30.2 PTR Update

Discussion in 'Latest Updates and News' started by TriggerHappy, Sep 27, 2018.

  1. Darklycan51

    Darklycan51

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    Haha, didn't know you even had a website, seems useful, right now it's a little cluttered cause it's full of bot games, hopefully once bots die this will stop being a problem since only user games will be listed.
     
  2. Jouven

    Jouven

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    They are killing the bot functionality... bad move. TBH I'm not surprised since they even killed the game for several weeks (1.30)

    I don't get the people complaining about the game list being filled with bot games, it's a list issue, add a better filtering and problem solved

    Does any of you have a VPS low latency tier connection at home to host? because that's what bots can provide
    And doing multiplayer with the formula of one player has 0 latency and the rest suffer isn't a great either
    And I don't think, even if blizzard hosted the game on their servers, which they aren't/won't?, would be able to provide the same connection quality that bots can
    And I only mentioned connection quality but the bots provide additional features: ban, kick, stats, autohosting, setup computer slots with one just command, check the latency of the players...

    I keep wondering about the rationale behind these decisions, 1.29 onward, because I can't make any sense of them.

    Well at least I'm being forced (no guilty feeling) to say bye to the Warcraft 3 official release, so much for the added? features...
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2018
  3. Zordrak

    Zordrak

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    I would be absolutely satisfied if Blizzard just fixed all bugs that they have caused with their latest patches (for example sounds that don't work).
     
  4. mori

    mori

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    Do you think you can keep it working after the PTR is on master? I'm assuming you use a bot account to connect to the realms and manually pull the list of games from there, and I can see the encryption tampering with that. Do you have a contingency plan? I'd love to see your game list up and running after all the bot games are removed.
     
  5. Napoqe

    Napoqe

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    I liked all of those changes. It will be easier to create lobbys and play games that are not on the hostbot site. However some people are saying that this patch can do end up with all hostbots, which has some interresting features.
    I believe Blizzard will get a way not to end up with hostbots, however improving security to host without them, and also making it easier to host lobby without them.

    Why are you so saying that you will end up with hostbots?

    When I create a lobby with a new map, this map goes to upload to Blizzard servers, so who enters my lobby downloads the map on Blizzard server?
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018
  6. Death Adder

    Death Adder

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    I hope it won't be like in SC2 where instead of seeing open lobbies you see the popular games.

    Although wc3's game list is pretty shit, (and is flooded by auto-hosted bot games), you can just join any random game and give it a try. But on SC2 nobody will even see your hosted game, but they'll still see the most popular maps even if there's no lobby open...

    That makes it almost impossible for someone to just make a map, host it, and play it / test it live.


    Also, there's nothing wrong with auto-hosted bot games per se, just give the users the ability to filter them out.


    But naturally, if blizzard goes with the SC2 route they'll basically replace the auto-hosted bot games with the most played gamelist which does the exact same thing as the auto-host bots—but worse...
     
  7. Radicool

    Radicool

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    I haven't tested this yet, but these changes sound great to me. Back in the day before host bots, my lobby filled with no problem. When host bots came about and the game lists saturated with empty lobbies, I couldn't get a soul to join my games. Sure population had a lot to do with this, but it's all about supply and demand. Removing the host bots will reduce supply to an appropriate level. If I join a game now, I know they'll be at least 1 person in it and we can have a conversation without the automated spam the hostbots pollute the chat with.

    I''ll welcome change and improvements, but I agree Starcraft's way of doing things is substandard. Warcraft has a nice way of encouraging community, conversation and lively lobbies (which in my opinion was burdened by the hostbots). Big chat rooms automatically joined by default, emphasizing open lobbies actual people have created, etc.

    I don't really agree with everything you said but I do understand hostbots brought some nice features to the table such as banlists, ping checkers and elo measuring on players. Remember we've already seen some great additions from Blizzard like checking lobby size without joining the game, allowing everybody to host, reduced multiplayer delay, quicker download times (I presume Blizzard cloud hosting maps will improve download times) etc. Blizzard might even develop more features to mitigate our dependence on hostbots. For those Blizzard won't add, perhaps these third party tools can be adapted to be run by the hosts of games?

    Again, I'm glad about these changes, but as they say; "To each their own".
     
  8. Dr Super Good

    Dr Super Good

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    I suggest you lean how the internet works.
    Which was why there was forced latency of 200ms originally.
    Chances are their connection will be better. MMH especially had a trash connection.
     
  9. Jouven

    Jouven

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    I suggest you learn how life works

    I haven't been specific, I don't know how it works for ladder, I'm referring to custom games. Since release, all the games I played the host player had no delay and the rest of the players had a noticeable delay, other players confirmed this because everyone wanted to be the host since it gave a clear advantage

    You only mention MMH, chances are you need to do more research.
    Blizzard using dedicated game hosting for Warcraft 3 confirmed?
     
  10. Dr Super Good

    Dr Super Good

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    Probably, seeing how they want to upload the maps and remove the need to port forward.

    They do it for StarCraft II so I do not see why not for Warcraft III.
     
  11. Darklycan51

    Darklycan51

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    Definitely hope that it is NOT this way, seeing popular games is even worse than having bots host the same 2005 maps over and over again, with bots dead user hosted maps will be the focus, hopefully they just manage to make it work better and add a web interface that displays hosted games so we can just copy/paste
     
  12. juvian

    juvian

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    But copy/paste wrongly and you get banned temporarily...
     
  13. Radicool

    Radicool

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    If the below source is correct, it confirms that removing hostbots was intentional:

    https://image.prntscr.com/image/L2DRTDwVSJO9xlNCVeSPZw.png

    Looking at people's opinions it seems lots of people are upset about this decision. Here's what I've seen so far:

    Reasons for Hostbots:

    - Hostbots may offer better ping
    - Hostbots may offer player tracking - ELO, banlisting
    - Hostbots may offer autorefresh
    - Player hosts may unfairly kick players
    - Player hosts may AFK and not start the game
    - Player hosts may leave which can disconnect other players

    Reasons Against Hostbots

    - Hostbots often create empty lobbies which over saturate the game lists.
    - Hostbots often spam chat log and make communication a little harder
    - Third party tools cannot be easily moderated or controlled
    - Not incorporated into game client making it harder for the average user to utilize.
    - Uncertainty over player information data mined by Hostbot companies. Potential privacy implications.


    Would it be possible to combine the best of both worlds? A dedicated server, but with rules unlike the current hostbots to ensure we don't get flooded game lists? A few different approaches:

    1.) Create API's to allow hostbots to continue operating but enforcing rules
    Perhaps a Hostbot lobby can only be created on demand and is closed automatically if it becomes empty? This implementation could save Blizzard operating costs.
    2.) Blizzard hosts the game servers and provides some of the lost functionality
    This could offer everything above but reduce the need to seek third party tools. It's already been speculated that this might be Blizzards next step.
    3.) Leave things as they are or change back to bothosting
    Be damned if you do, be damned if you don't. Not everyone would be happy having it one way or the other.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018
  14. chusrubi2

    chusrubi2

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    • Maps will now be uploaded and downloaded from the cloud
    Will this work for replays too? It would be awesome that when loading a replay, we didn't need to have the map already.
     
  15. Frotty

    Frotty

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    Hey, at least they have their priorities straight!

    Yeah, it's the reason I left sc2. Not looking great though.
     
  16. Anachron

    Anachron

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    Good Job blizzard, I am getting "We're having Trouble launching Battle.Net Update Agent" on the latest PTR.
     
  17. mwsdevcom

    mwsdevcom

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    Hostbots have ton of features which will never be available with new system(things like stat tracking, custom ELO systems, replay saving).
    Breaking them would be a big mistake and huge blow to the community.

    'Bots flooding game list' is completly artificial problem and could have been solved years ago with just implementing proper game list table like [name/map/player count/ping] with filtering and sorting.
    It could be still implemented now, although I assume it would require some changes on bots side, but they likely won't be that major and I belive community would be able to handle it.

    So please Blizzard, don't remove possibility to have non-blizzard hosted custom games.
     
  18. tulee

    tulee

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    Every time the host disconnects from the game, everyone else will DC also right?

    Just out of curiosity, will this lock out all the players from Ent and Eurobattle from connecting with Bnet players? One of the nice things about the bots was they allowed small different groups of players to play together.

    Also, I know it has been pointed out above, but the systems for ELO/scores/Banlists that the bot system implemented actually really worked well.
     
  19. Jouven

    Jouven

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    1 Like some users, and me, already mentioned add a better game list with filtering and sorting
    2 This only happens when autohosting and it can be changed, I modified it on my bot to spam it every 30s, it can be changed to other values or completly removed
    3 I don' understand what's your point mentioning "Third party = not official, not controlled by Blizzard"
    4 Just tell them to use the help command when they join the lobby/channel
    5 Those pesky Hostbot companies! Ghost++ is open source, at most you get a nick and an IP, which if you host normally you can fetch too
     
  20. Radicool

    Radicool

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    Well I'm trying to represent the community, but I'll add my 2 cents then.

    1. This would help somewhat, but it doesn't fix the problem. Oversaturation of games results in empty lobbies and games that don't start. Simple supply and demand.
    2. My experience with all Hostbots has been full of automated spam. It's great to hear it can be turned off, but it seems it isn't most of the time
    3. Third parties are operating independently from Blizzard. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but Hostbots do what they want for the most part and it's hard to enforce change. They have upset many but nothing has changed since they were brought in.
    4. Users must access tools outside of their client. This will always be harder to do than built in tools.
    5. I'm just saying that average user will be unaware of what data is collected. There isn't a reasonable consent obtained before people use these tools and I doubt Warcraft 3's privacy policy covers this use. It's probably no big deal, but it's something Blizzard may need to consider.