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Patch 1.30.2 PTR Update

Discussion in 'Latest Updates and News' started by TriggerHappy, Sep 27, 2018.

  1. Biggrouse

    Biggrouse

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    I can't believe that over 10 years later you are still coming to this website to torment and troll me. Do you realize that you have ruined. my. god. damn. LIFE?????????????????
     
  2. SpasMaster

    SpasMaster

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    I think that people aren't seeing the end-goal here. (understandably so, because we don't have an official such statement from Blizzard so far, but I will pick that back up later)
    But think about this for a second: Generally speaking, does a modern game need bots and/or third party software to function correctly? Cause the answer is no. Do you need bots to play League of Legends, Starcraft 2 or Counter-Strike? No you don't.

    Warcraft III, however, as a game that is not modern (and until few years back it wasn't even being actively developed) ended up using the functionalities of the host-bots to circumvent the issues that it came along with. The host bots provided solutions to issues that were present with the game itself: If the host left, you are screwed. No stat tracking. Higher ping.

    But what if these issues didn't exist in the first place? Then you wouldn't need the bots at all. The host-bots are an answer to an issue. IF there is no issue, then there is no need for an answer.
    I happen to get the idea that Blizzard is taking steps in that direction and the PTR we see is the first of them. I mean, do I want to live in a world where bots are needed to circumvent issues, or do I want a world with no issues and therefore no bots? It is the latter 100% for me.

    So the way I see it, Blizzard are doing changes with the end-goal of removing the need to use host-bots. I mean, take a look at one of the changes that comes with this PTR: "Port-forwarding is no longer required to host". Well, folks, that means that when the host disconnects or leaves, the game won't disconnect the rest of the players. Does that sound familiar? Cause as far as I remember, that's one of the issues that host-bots were preventing. An issue that would now be gone, so you can scratch it off from the list of features that host-bots were providing. Because now it is provided by the game itself. So is it so wrong, for the developers to be trying to achieve that goal? To have the game itself not present those issues and to offer solutions to them without relying on host-bots and third party software? Because to me it isn't and I fully support the changes and the direction that they are going for.

    The real issue here is the lack of official statement about these goals and philosophies. Blizzard never said that they are aiming towards solving all issues that the game has, that are currently solved by host-bots. There is evidence here and there, and one can only assume that that's what they are doing, but unless we get an official statement, it's all assumptions in the end of the day.

    Because if Blizzard is thinking that they need to take 5 steps in order to solve the issues that currently require host bots, and what we are seeing on the patch is Step 1, then that's great. However, without a statement telling us that they do actually have those 5 steps in mind, we end up with situations like the current one: People only look at what is presented to them - which is the PTR. They see a small piece of the picture, because that's all that Blizzard has given them to see. And in that small piece of the picture they see a game with 10 (random number) issues, and solution to only 1 of them, while the problem solver (the host-bots) for the rest of the 9 issues is also getting removed. So people start complaining, (understandably so), because without the problem solver, they now have 9 issues that they didn't have before.

    What I have to tell to the community is to think logically here. This isn't the last patch for Warcraft. There will be plenty more coming. It's pretty clear that this patch is a first step towards ending up with a game where host-bots would not be needed at all. It's going to be frustrating at the beginning, but try to think long-term here. Because despite Blizzard not giving us their long-term goals, there surely are such, because that's how game development works.

    What I have to tell to Blizzard is to share their goals and plans for the game to the community in order to prevent situations of confusion and frustration out of lack of information. Tell people that right now host-bots solve issues that you actually have plans to address. It would not only be beneficial for you, the developer, as you would get feedback about your plans in advance, but it would also give people a clearer idea of your intentions, thus preventing frustration.
     
  3. YourArthas

    YourArthas

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    Wasn't it better to solve all 10 slowly in the background while keeping the 3rd party solution till it is done? Or is it better to push 1 solution and break 9 things with a 3rd party solution and develop 9 more patches each month(?) and break the game for nearly a year?
     
  4. DracoL1ch

    DracoL1ch

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    Who cares what do they wanna do later? They can ditch wc3 just like diablo2, no problems about doing so. Or implement those 5 stages by one per year. Or w/e. Stop making assumings that there are totally good people with only pure intents of healing community (which never asked for that either). Get real and see what actually happens. People get frustrated by being unable to play their lovely game for a day. With blizzard's well known slow updates it may take ages. Where you gonna go? Wheres your stats going which you were crambling all those years before? The only thing I know for real, blizz dont care about that. Not a single fuck.
     
  5. kantarion

    kantarion

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    Warcraft 3 is an old game,which is hard to raise to a modern level. It is hard to see the bigger picture how to do it to blizz.

    The answer is to actually HEAR and WATCH what community actualy DOES,look at the actual WORK and behave towards it.

    You cant just delete bots just cause some hive members are agaisnt it . You are listening the voice of people who never created aything greater to improve the game,and throwing people who actually did created things. This is the key solution. You look at the actualy WORK of community, embrace it and improve - or implement at least at almost same level they did .

    Why do i have to use Skype to send game name to my friend WHICH IS on other realm. I can not whisper him,cause blizzard didnt allow me to whisper him?Got it?
    You need to change interface,and allow both chat/friendlist and game list in same window.And get rid of padding window and annoying chains in interface ffs its 21 centuary.NO I WILL NOT USE NETEASE. I want play warcraft 3,login,hit and PLAY. I dont wanna come here,asking for advices how to use it,manually implement ANYTHING.
    It is your duty and job if you want sell the game.You tricked us all,i already bought cd keys and now i have to live all of it. Return my money!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    You cant come delete the bots AND ITS SYSTEM WE ALREADY GOT, let us wait for 1 year the system get improved for a greater good .

    Face the truth, original bnet is way more empty now than before 12 year ago.

    By just killing bots and just letting people be private hosts, this will happen in reality : 10 people will host a same avarage popilar custom game on dead game in a interface system that doesnt WORK.Regular player who search dont have an insight of how many for exmaple Werewolf Tranylvania games are created.

    With bots,i can know how many games are created,i know whos in,whats their ping,i know when new game will be created if lobby is full.


    With private host system,none of us will ever be able to actualy start a game cause we will be scattered in 10 same games by different private hosts. And cause we dont have an insight how many people are ingame.

    This will waste time of all people ,and at the end they will cancel a game.
    In eality this lasts about 20-40 min.

    Then they will try enter another game,and same thing happens. Then after that they just EXIT bnet.
    This is how you kill a game and community .This is a reality.

    Mulitply this practice with 2-3 months ,ppl will get sick of an old game and leave forever.This is how i left long long ago.Then i saw modding community , hear a rumor of Warcraft Remaster etc. Then blizz come and kill its tools

    Your colegues from WoW before they settle new patch to be played officialy, are already finishing at least 50% of future PTR patch.

    However you delete things,and dont provide any solution. In next comment i will provide you a very specific changes you will have to do BEFORE YOU DELETE bots,if thats your stuborn goal. I will not write novels like this. Maybe then you will understand bigger picture of what are you doing! Lets hope situation will get clearer
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2018
  6. Frotty

    Frotty

    Wurst Reviewer

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    @SpasMaster Didn't read the whole wall of text, I think the bottom line is that blizzard has shown how incompetent they are at handling topics that concern the community and I expect their new "hosting" to be released as a broken mess maybe months from now. Time and time again it has been obvious that they miss any good testing suite, organization structure like SCRUM and don't do much testing themselves. This sheer ignorance in 2018 brings my blood to a boil.

    It has been over 6 months since the first announcement of official patches, and the only thing worth it for me was the widescreen patch. Everything else I literally couldn't care less about.
    The only major thing i noticed is all community stuff and maps being broken, continuing with the hosting now. Maps are still broken. The game has been unplayable for many for months, and instead of focusing on these fixes, they add more buggy stuff on top that is prone to cause issues. Even if in 3 months everything works perfectly, the damage has been done.

    You wish:D

    e: The main "business" thing here is that wc3 doesn't make money and is basically just a burden. Blizzard's cash cows hearthstone and overwatch make the wc3 customer irrelevant. Thus as stopcampingn00b said, this isn't gonna change anything, they don't have to care about the customer here. It's just a contingency to keep wc3 aligned with company tech.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2018
  7. terrio

    terrio

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    after testing the ptr, i can confirm the current state of the new hosting system is huge pile of crap
     
  8. EredarArbeiterYU

    EredarArbeiterYU

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    I'll miss the ability to change game names while in lobby, or to set up a timely repeated message informing people of the game mode we play or rules so we don't need to explain to each new person that joins. Or to kick a toxic troll player upon unfortunate occasions that those happen. AND to swap positions in the game via simple command instead of having to have one player leave (when the game is full) so that the other person can go in their spot and hope a 3rd person won't ninja their way in to his spot! :c
    If we can do these simple ease-of-life things in normally hosted Battle.net games then cool but if not - shit...
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2018
  9. mwsdevcom

    mwsdevcom

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    Just tested game hosting on PTR.
    1. 2 players. Ping: host 60ms, me 800+ms. Host leaves, game continues, my ping becomes 60.
    Note: Downloaded map on game list, joined and for some reason redownloaded it old way.
    2. 3 players. Host: 40ms, me and player >700ms. Host leaves, we get disconnected.
    Note: Downloaded map only once on game list screen.
    3. I host standart melee map, nobody can join.
    4. I join game and get kicked(by system).
    5. 3 players, same situation as in 2.
    6. I host again, nobody can join.
    7. I join game, my game crashes.
    8. 2 players, Host 120ms, me 700ms. Host leaves, game continues, my ping becomes 60.

    Note: my typical ping to EU servers is 40-60, to US: ~110.
     
  10. Rui

    Rui

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    So far I've refrained from commenting harshly on these changelogs, and even welcomed a few. But dumping hostbots of a sudden, with no prior notice, and no hints of a viable alternative? Seems imprudent, to say the least. I can agree with what's branded as the "long-term view" — that, I assume, is decent hosting services (I see no mention of that anywhere, however, which seems like a sign of no compromise from Blizzard). But where's the short-term option? Those were host bots. I don't understand the logic behind taking away one thing, before you're ready to give the other. What're we supposed to do with the void in-between?

    Besides, server hosting may cover benefits offered by host bots. But we already know it won't track stats, and won't allow votekicking or banning. As mentioned by @opium911, the practical effects of the rules were positive (much better than I'd expect, actually). I never witnessed these features being misused in popular bots. Only once was I banned off a GHost without cause, and I made an appeal and got myself unbanned. Some players install a rotten environment of competitiveness, abuse, team-killing, laming, feeding, griefing, trolling, toxicity and general game screwing that reaches unbearable levels. It's a movie I can watch anytime if I log in DotA 2. And I did, until I got fed up. These players are left at large, you keep catching them in games, again and again, and you simply can't get rid of them.

    I fully understand the need to sometimes make changes that are hard to make backwards-compatible. I myself am affected by the drop of support for Windows XP, and I don't complain, because it's an understandable option. This decision, however, seems like a targeted change that comes out of the blue, for no apparent reason, with no benefits whatsoever. If you have the community covering some issue with third party tools or other unconventional mechanics, that should be viewed as a good thing because it allows you to direct your efforts elsewhere. What seems incomprehensible is going out of your way to intentionally screw them. More and more I get the feeling that a stable realm fixed in 1.26 was called for before any of these updates. If the changes were good enough, people would eventually move.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2018
  11. Parasect

    Parasect

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    Do you think so? Wouldn't go that far. They're not some out of the loop company, there's no way a multi billion dollar company doesn't keep up with the industry's standards. PTR is their testing phase. Apparently the PTR is a big part in their development process, and they probably won't roll out the patch when the community is that much dissatisfied.

    By the way, sticking to development patterns doesn't guarantee a quality product.
     
  12. 4rum_Arts

    4rum_Arts

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    Korean users do not go to the public game room on the Asian server because of the host bot. This is because the room created by ordinary users is continuously pushed out by the host bot.
    So, they are gathered on the channel to play a private game or go to a free server.
    You know the advantages of the host room, but have you ever thought that most of the maps will be hurt because of the maps that use the features of some of them?
     
  13. Barade

    Barade

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    It might suck for the communities which rely on hostbots but for normal players who just want to play a game, it's a relief.
    My Internet provider does not even support port forwarding with IPv4 anymore on their router configurations.

    Blizzard should also lower the price of the game since it is really old and integrate it into their blizzard app or just move all their games to Steam :D
    You have to think about getting new players to play this game and new players don't want to setup any hostbot or use some for autohosting etc. they just want to play a game the easiest way possible.
    Of course, it would also be great to have some hostbot integrated into wc3 by Blizzard themselves to create auto hosting servers or to keep support for the existing hostbots but I think it is more important to get new players to play this game.

    The best thing they have done for a game like AoE 2 was to dd it to steam.
    You can just host a game and invite your friends etc. and people to started playing it again.
     
  14. A]mun

    A]mun

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    ^ AoE2 HD is actually doing fine these days, really a shining example of how to modernize an old title.

    WC3 on the other hand...
    is having a limb cut off here, some fixes (demanding new fixes) applied there and shoved around brutally with ? what reason ?
    I only hope it pays off in the end, right now it feels like a draught where everyone's waiting for rain.

    But i'm also scratching my head in hindsight of the recent years, since it seems that it would've paid off by now, had Blizz started the development of Warcraft IV?!
    On the other hand, we know of one developer who seemingly won't/can't count to three with their major titles, even though we all know it is bound to happen one day.

    Im mean really, there will be a fourth Warcraft, right?
     
  15. Kacpa2

    Kacpa2

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    It's great to see native hosting fixed.
    However i have few issues with it(it also instantly ended after map started i tried earlier today i will try few more later)
    All/most of bot functionality should be replicated in some way. Kicking, player stats, adjustable latency, slot swaping and so on.

    Local storage should be available as some option. Dling them in lobby may help when people try to reserve slots or test some map privately. Latter isnt probably an issue since it cant ve recovered by other people who didnt play it so maybe its ok that say.

    Bots could be still around maybe with option to filter them and native ingsme hosted games apart.

    Some kind of map maker status and map archives that hosting services like ent offer could be useful. I like to know how often my map is hosted and to control ehich versions are up. It could help to weed out hacks or cheated versions of maps and so on.

    Games list like bot sites offer would be great. To see lovbies outside the game client in general.

    Outside if these things its looking great. I'm just a bit concerned about loss of all of that functionality.

    It will also mean that customs in Reign of Chaos may see atleast slight resurgence :v

    And i missed that......stamping click sound
    Game starts in 5....
    Game starts in 4....
    Game starts in 3....
    Game starts in 2....
    Game starts in 1....

    PS another issue that i dunno of was fixed.....music MUST play when loading.. not just ....cut off when loading screen comes up and comeback after its done...... Unless it was already fixed
     
  16. pyf

    pyf

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    @Barade: Admit it, you want the price of the game to be a negative number.

    :wink:
     
  17. mori

    mori

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    So, it seems that the game is actually still hosted on the Host's PC, and that all traffic gets proxied through a location in US West on the PTR.

    I have come to this conclusion based on the following:
    1. Connecting players to a proxy is one sure way of implementing a system where nobody needs to forward ports, and has the benefit of hiding IP addresses. Good.
    2. The Host always has a low ping, around 50-60 ms, despite the proxying.
    3. Other players got disconnected when I closed my game.
    4. If both the host, and the players are far away from the proxying location, e.g. Eastern Europe, then those players will have huge ping. I tested this with a couple of other friends from Eastern Europe, and their pings were in the ballpark of 600-800 ms. This seems to add up, if the traffic is routed through US West, since the average ping to US West from Eastern Europe is around 200-300 ms.

    This is, frankly, embarassing, compared to host bots. Host bots worked even for users playing on US West from Eastern Europe, because the Bot assumed the role of the host, and thus, no player in the game was the true host, so the traffic didn't have to take such a long round-trip to reach other players.

    @Kam , I highly suggest you guys transition to the same system that host bots used, where the Bot itself was the Host, and all traffic was directly routed by it, rather than proxying traffic to the host through some location. While this means that the owner of the lobby might have a higher ping, the rest of the players will have similar pings, depending on their location.

    This MUST be fixed. Honestly, this is an embarassment on behalf of the Classic team, in my opinion - GHost and other host bot implementations had it figured out for years, all you guys have to do, is implement a similar system.

    It is simply unacceptable for players to have such a high ping when not playing on their native realm. I, personally, always play on US East even though I'm from Europe, because most my friends are from the US. Please, fix.
     
  18. DracoL1ch

    DracoL1ch

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    years ago people got paid for making quality assurance. Now it's called PTR
     
  19. pyf

    pyf

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    Everybody loves free ponies.

    :grin:
     
  20. Kacpa2

    Kacpa2

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    There are so many reasons for why there is no need nor possiblity for WC4.

    WC3 has become eternal game like Team Fortress 2 or CSGO League of legends or Dota 2.....there cant ever be a seqeul to it.

    For different(and same reasons in case of games like TF2) reasons. 1st and foremlst community and all ckntent made by it for the game which is gigantic pool of models, skins, art, coding and trigger solutions and maps that use these.

    Older games didnt have that at all or it was marginal like with Starcraft 1(tho we still got maps like Aeon of strife but sc1's mapping scene is non existant in comparison to wc3's)

    2nd reason is story.....wow took up(and butchered main story for most part, but wow still did some nice miscellaneous and local regional lore) the main story despite mmo's being rather bad in long run with that just cuz of its gameplay needs which demands leveling and end game content.
    And wow is probably going to last for few decades unless it gets some playerbase extinction event.....There is nothing that WC4 can offer that we didnt do. We got campaigns based and derivating from wow story like wrath of the lich king and dosens of other stories in campaigns and maps.

    3rd reason...Wcr has nothing to offer gameplay wise that wc3 already doesnt have or custom maps for it dont. All of what can be done are pretty much tweaks to wc3 itself.

    All of custom mapde content would be lost if wc4 came out and judging by how sc2 does in this regard.....customs scene would die.

    WC3 needs tweaks, patches and fixes.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2018