Official WarCraft IV Discussion

[Adiktuz]

I think being multinational is not a prerequisite of being a corporation because if it is then the term multinational corporation is redundant...

 

[Deolrin]

Mojang listens to the community and gets lots of money. Arena.net listens to the community and gets lots of money. Why can't Blizzard?

 

[Linaze]

Mojang listens to the community and gets lots of money. Arena.net listens to the community and gets lots of money. Why can't Blizzard?

Sure they can make a lot of money, but probably not as much, in the short run, at least.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

Mojang listens to the community and gets lots of money. Arena.net listens to the community and gets lots of money. Why can't Blizzard?

Blizzard show they are listening to the community, at least with sc2, why do you think they are not listening? Because they don't make war4 given the reasons it's not done that you can figure out yourself? ... Maybe get over yourselves - stop dreaming of something that's gonna happen most likley never and move on to newer games than complaining about how something isn't made. Plus other than some die hards, I don't see having such a large wave of people asking for war4... Yes I liked war3 too but it's good to leave some things in history.

I think WoW left no opportunities for Warcraft lore to be in some other type of game. Blizzard have already made the choice in what type of game this lore will continue. And frankly, I do not think Blizzard will continue making games for a whole century.

 

[Amargaard]

^I agree as much as I can possibly agree

 

[Dogzo]

They better continue frozen throne Story, i want arthas alive, Wow ruined the whole cinematic

 

[Grey Nightmare]

If you're looking for something 'like' a sequel to Warcraft, check out our New Dawn Project: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/warcraft-new-dawn-686/ - We could really do with some community input, what do YOU want to see in a new Warcraft?

 

[Dogzo]

Blizzard show they are listening to the community, at least with sc2, why do you think they are not listening? Because they don't make war4 given the reasons it's not done that you can figure out yourself? ... Maybe get over yourselves - stop dreaming of something that's gonna happen most likley never and move on to newer games than complaining about how something isn't made. Plus other than some die hards, I don't see having such a large wave of people asking for war4... Yes I liked war3 too but it's good to leave some things in history.

I think WoW left no opportunities for Warcraft lore to be in some other type of game. Blizzard have already made the choice in what type of game this lore will continue. And frankly, I do not think Blizzard will continue making games for a whole century.

Well, i still want a warcraft 4 ...

If you're looking for something 'like' a sequel to Warcraft, check out our New Dawn Project: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/warcraft-new-dawn-686/ - We could really do with some community input, what do YOU want to see in a new Warcraft?

All i want to see in a new warcraft is the continued story of frozen throne, Arthas alive and lich king.

 

[Abelhawk]

Take it or leave it, but this is what I think about WarCraft IV:

I think that it should completely interfere with World of WarCraft. I don't care if they pull some sort of Nozdormu the Bronze messing up time or what, but there's no way they can just pick up where they leave off... with China and Pandarens. The action of WarCraft ended when Blizzard put all their best veteran writers and programmers into StarCraft 2, which is an incredible story, fun, and well put-together. I also assume they put them into Diablo III, although I've never played any of the Diablo series, so I can't say for sure.
All I can tell is, I'm not sure if Blizzard was confident in their interns programming for them or what, but World of WarCraft went down a path that can't really be fixed by adding on to the storyline. I mean, "Mord'rethar"? "The Death Gate"? You can tell the ones who came up with the amazing storylines of The Frozen Throne and Wings of Liberty weren't working on Wrath of the Lich King if all they can come up with is obscure Lord of the Rings references.

And another thing: We're worried about the Lore staying intact, right? Well, I refuse to believe that the way that Illidan was defeated was by 25 assorted "adventurers" who raided his Black Temple and worked together to defeat him. I loved World of WarCraft. I loved exploring the land I had come to love my whole life playing each game. It was amazing to use the abilities that had been carried on since the beginning. But those are the limits of an MMORPG. I don't think they can apply if you're seriously considering the lore. Without a somewhat linear storyline, complete with cutscenes, cinematics, etc., how are we supposed to know the emotion behind the people of Stormwind finding out that Khadgar, Danath, Kurdran and everyone else hadn't died closing the Dark Portal to Outland? How are we supposed to know who really was powerful enough to defeat Illidan, the Lich King, and all those bosses?

I think that if Blizzard made WarCraft IV begin when WoW began, A) the storyline would be more set in stone and comprehensible, B) the introduction of new areas and races could be strengthened, not just set aside, and C) the long time strategy game fans of previous WarCraft games would love it and not care about the inconsistency. And who cares about the WoW fans who started playing two years ago and are fascinated with the pandaren monks? Anyone who remembers the way World of WarCraft used to be—challenging, full of wonder and exploration, teamwork-based, and downright FUN without being coddled into having every quest so easy you can beat them by following the arrows—would be fine if Blizzard just took a deep breath and a fresh start, and just tried again.

WarCraft is too amazing of a story and too rich of a universe to just die in real time because of the advent of an MMORPG. It's a great game, but the limits of an RPG and the extents that make an MMO fun have filled it with too many pop culture references and obscure races that are part man, part X. If Blizzard lets all of that die because they're afraid to ruin their canon, I think the world of gaming will be at a huge loss.

I'm a lifelong WarCraft fan. I played WarCraft I at my uncle's house when I was 8 or 9, I got the WarCraft II Battle Chest for my birthday in third grade, and my brother and I saved up for a year to buy WarCraft 3 when it came out. I've played it on and off since it came out 11 years ago, and I still keep going back to the World Editor to breathe life into my ideas. I just don't want to see the story die over a technicality that a real time MMO causes. I can never go back to the way Azeroth looked before Deathwing tore it in half because that's the real time cost of an MMO. But I can always go back and re-live the Battle of Mount Hyjal, or the events that led to Arthas becoming the Lich King. I would love to have that chance with a WarCraft 4.

Anyway, like I said, take it or leave it. I'd be surprised if anyone read this entire thing anyway. I just had to give my two cents into the mix.

 

[Deolrin]

I... Don't get it. You're praising Warcraft III, but refuse to acknowledge the existence of Pandaren?

Rexxar campaign, anyone...? Hello?
Besides, the Pandaren are Samwise Didier's own creation. They have nothing to do with the apparently horrendous storywriters for WoW.

 

[Abelhawk]

I don't mind the existence of Pandaren. I was fine with the Pandaren Brewmaster hero in TFT, but they started as a joke by Samwise, who's obsessed with pandas for some reason. They shouldn't have an entire expansion just for them! Where's the story in that? Throughout the entire history of Warcraft—Medivh, the Dark Portal, all those wars—no mention of pandarens at all, and then it's as if they just randomly decide to introduce an entire Chinese continent so they can go all out with making new models and terrain. It's like they're just trying to cover every genre imaginable.

 

[edo494]

thats why MoP's lore is like: land far to the east, forgotten for thousands of years..., so then dont need to modify the existing lore

 

[Deolrin]

I don't mind the existence of Pandaren. I was fine with the Pandaren Brewmaster hero in TFT, but they started as a joke by Samwise, who's obsessed with pandas for some reason.

It's not like that at all. The Pandaren(in a different form, under a different name) are Samwise's personal creation. He's drawn lots of personal, non-WC3 related images with them. The Pandaren in WC3 are some kind of reference to Samwise's work, I suppose. They're significantly different to the Pandaren in Samwise's personal works.

 

[Abelhawk]

I wouldn't say they're his "personal creation"... they're just anthropomorphic pandas. What's there to create? They're monks that are skilled in martial arts, right? Obviously, they should wear oriental-style clothes and live in a Chinese continent, right? Why? Because they're pandas! I think the only reason they have a place in WoW is because it gave the artists something new to make. They already have a jungle, several different types of deserts, an alien world, swamps, forests, lava areas, and snowy areas. The sign that pandas are just an inside joke is the frequency of panda symbols everywhere. There's the marine with the panda symbol on it on StarCraft 2, the "infested pandaren" portrait coming out for Heart of the Swarm, even Illidan's fist weapons have a panda face on them! It's nothing but an inside joke gone out of control, if you ask me.
Regardless, I don't see how this affects my desire for a WarCraft IV. There's a Pandaren Brewmaster already on WarCraft III, which I'm fine with. So... what's your point?

 

[Deolrin]

I already told you that Samwise's Pandaren are nothing like the Warcraft Pandaren. I'm pretty sure they go by another name, too.
Here, browse this gallery, then talk to me: http://sonsofthestorm.com/gallery.php?artist=samwise
The pandas are under the "personal" section. This is an example.

And the whole thing with pandas everywhere. That's pretty simple. Everyone loves the fucking pandas. Everyone was begging Blizzard to implement Pandaren since pretty much Burning Crusade.

 

[Abelhawk]

Yeah, apparently called "Pandyrs." This is all very interesting, but I don't see what it has to do with making Warcraft IV or not, and why you keep going on and on and on about it. I can just as easily prove that the Pandarens' success in WarCraft began with an April Fools' joke, but I don't see any point in continuing, since the purpose of my huge post was not to talk about pandas at all, but to simply cast my vote that the creation of a WarCraft IV should not be impeded by WoW.

 

[illmaster]

many people would like to play an epic RTS game like the warcraft III more than an MMORPG like WoW. if they don't want the lore in WoW crashed with it. why don't they just recreate the lore in WoW in a RTS game. Ex. they can make the story based on WoW WotLK story

 

[Abelhawk]

many people would like to play an epic RTS game like the warcraft III more than an MMORPG like WoW. if they don't want the lore in WoW crashed with it. why don't they just recreate the lore in WoW in a RTS game. Ex. they can make the story based on WoW WotLK story

My thoughts exactly. You can see my huge detailed thoughts in an earlier post, but I think it's dumb that a "raid" of adventurers "defeat" Illidan. I think it'd be more interesting to have it be more focused in an RTS to see Maiev or whoever actually do it.

 

[illmaster]

My thoughts exactly. You can see my huge detailed thoughts in an earlier post, but I think it's dumb that a "raid" of adventurers "defeat" Illidan. I think it'd be more interesting to have it be more focused in an RTS to see Maiev or whoever actually do it.

About Illidan raid
I know there is a raid there, but in the end Maiev is the one who killed him, right?
but still, its true that RTS version will be better

 

[trolman]

Illidan died at Icecrown, get over it

 

[illmaster]

Illidan died at Icecrown, get over it

No, he isn't. Arthas only wounded him so bad that Illidan had to retreat to Outland

 

[trolman]

Thats WoW pornography, Arthas would never let him live.

 

[illmaster]

Thats WoW pornography, Arthas would never let him live.

no, it's from the true lore. actually blizzard want to make a cut-scene about it. but they didn't have enough time for it

 

[trolman]

no...

 

[Super Pingwin]

why do people hate so much on WoW ? My only thought reading this post was "why don't we have both" ? <_<

there's an exploitable 4-year gap between the end of War3:ROC and the beta opening of WoW (lore-wise), that could be exploited for War IV.
Also, I don't see what would be impossible in making War IV just redo WoW's lore as an RTS, there are tons of exploitable ressources. Except the forums would be flooded with whining that blizzard didn't come up with an original idea.

 

[May90]

I find the story in WoW to be quite good, equal in quality to the one of WC3. It's just that people today like to complain about everything. You can hardly find any games today not hated by many people for very different reasons, especially sequels.

I'm 99% sure that, should Blizzard have made WC4 instead of WoW with even very epic story, people would hate it as much as they hate WoW.

 

[Super Pingwin]

I agree with you soooo much. Personally I play both. Along the pages of this thread, I read stuff like "WoW PvP sux lol" or people complaining that some heroic NPCs (Illidan, in this instance) were made killable ... I don't ... Understand how that is an issue ...

Just enjoy both games and hope for Warcraft IV, I just don't see how one prevents the creation of the other. As people have said enough on this post, the games are *completely* different, meaning multiple devteams will take care of each and/or both of the games at the same time.

Also don't forget that "project titan" or whatever it's called still hasn't been reveiled Let's just hope for the best.

 

[Bloody Wolf]

Well if they ever release Warcraft 4 they should make the naga,draenei,troll,etc races playable because i bet everione got pissed off when they released the frozen throne and did not include the naga as a playable race.I mean like,they even made a techtree for them

 

[Edhel-dur]

My thoughts exactly. You can see my huge detailed thoughts in an earlier post, but I think it's dumb that a "raid" of adventurers "defeat" Illidan. I think it'd be more interesting to have it be more focused in an RTS to see Maiev or whoever actually do it.

But Maiev, Akama & a group of raiders killed Illidan.

Just like in Wc1, Medivh was killed by three major characters and a small army.

many people would like to play an epic RTS game like the warcraft III more than an MMORPG like WoW. if they don't want the lore in WoW crashed with it. why don't they just recreate the lore in WoW in a RTS game. Ex. they can make the story based on WoW WotLK story

To be honest, that would be soooooooooo lazy and is even worse than letting Blizzard screw up more old and new lore.

On another note, seriously, how can you say "Oh, I just payed 60$ on experiencing a story in an MMORPG and I would pay another 60$ on the same thing, except in an RTS". Like what the fuck is wrong with you people?

I find the story in WoW to be quite good, equal in quality to the one of WC3. It's just that people today like to complain about everything. You can hardly find any games today not hated by many people for very different reasons, especially sequels.

I'm 99% sure that, should Blizzard have made WC4 instead of WoW with even very epic story, people would hate it as much as they hate WoW.

I disagree. In Wc3 the story fit well together. The story wasn't forced one way or another. No character was forced one way or another. In WoW, they forced characters one way or another. Here is what I mean.

Illidan Stormrage. He is locked up for 10,000 years. Now in 10,000 years time, he didn't go crazy. Yes, he wasn't in perfect harmony with himself, he had things to prove and how he went about things was extreme, but he wasn't paranoid. So I repeat, that guy, was for 10,000 years, locked up in a cell, in a burrow, underneath the surface, and he didn't go mad.

But, once Arthas defeats Illidan, the later becomes paranoid. Excuse me, what!? Illidan lost a duel, to Arthas, and he goes paranoid? That doesn't make any sense.

 

[trolman]

But Maiev, Akama & a group of raiders killed Illidan.

Just like in Wc1, Medivh was killed by three major characters and a small army.

But Arthas killed Illidan at Icecrown before he became the lich king. Wow lore already blows I hope it wont be a part of warcraft 4.

On another note, seriously, how can you say "Oh, I just payed 60$ on experiencing a story in an MMORPG and I would pay another 60$ on the same thing, except in an RTS". Like what the fuck is wrong with you people?

Well thats really simple, all you have to do is <censored by mods> !

 

[Bloody Wolf]

Arthas never killed Illidan he just criticaly wounded him

 

[illmaster]

I disagree. In Wc3 the story fit well together. The story wasn't forced one way or another. No character was forced one way or another. In WoW, they forced characters one way or another. Here is what I mean.

Illidan Stormrage. He is locked up for 10,000 years. Now in 10,000 years time, he didn't go crazy. Yes, he wasn't in perfect harmony with himself, he had things to prove and how he went about things was extreme, but he wasn't paranoid. So I repeat, that guy, was for 10,000 years, locked up in a cell, in a burrow, underneath the surface, and he didn't go mad.

But, once Arthas defeats Illidan, the later becomes paranoid. Excuse me, what!? Illidan lost a duel, to Arthas, and he goes paranoid? That doesn't make any sense.

Do you know that Illidan was never defeated (and wounded very hard) in his 10,000 years at the prison?
And I don't think that WoW lore and Wacraft RTS lore are different. They are both made by Blizzard and both of them had Warcraft story that Blizzard made.

So, what really different?
If Blizzard should make Warcraft IV instead of WoW, I don't think the story will be different

But Arthas killed Illidan at Icecrown before he became the lich king. Wow lore already blows I hope it wont be a part of warcraft 4.

http://www.wowpedia.org/Illidan_Stormrage

 

[trolman]

Arthas never killed Illidan he just criticaly wounded him

http://www.wowpedia.org/Illidan_Stormrage

Bullshit, Arthas would never leave Illidan alive, he's not that kind of guy. And tough the wiki might say Illidan survived, I'll remind you that thats wow wiki thus its story is invalid to warcraft 3 and hopefuly warcraft 4.

 

[GhostThruster]

i wud much prefer if wc4 had some lore workaround eg. some shit happens in the cavern of time, or the old gods awaken and revert back time

 

[takakenji]

wow lore is bad and the damage is irreversible

 

[Bloody Wolf]

Bullshit, Arthas would never leave Illidan alive, he's not that kind of guy. And tough the wiki might say Illidan survived, I'll remind you that thats wow wiki thus its story is invalid to warcraft 3 and hopefuly warcraft 4.

Well i supose you are right since Arthas is a cold blooded bastard but the wiki cant allways be trusted

 

[PROXY]

Even in the wc3 campaign you can see that Illidan survives the duel with Arthas?

 

[trolman]

And why wouldnt Arthas kill Ilidan after he's wounded him? Remember Sylvanas? All she did was slow him down and he made her into a monster. Iliidan on the other hand messed up arthas's shit really bad. He's responsible for the Forsaken and Arthas's pain and the attemnt to kill the lich king. By all logic of warcraft 3 Illidan would not have lived.

But because WoW needed some bosses, Blizzard decided to change things up -.-

 

[Linaze]

Even in the wc3 campaign you can see that Illidan survives the duel with Arthas?

It's obviously impossible to tell the fate of Illidan from that cinematic. He could've died, or possibly been rescued by Kael/Vashj and brought back to Outland, or something entirely different. Blizzard chose the survival option, I don't see where all the fuzz is coming from.

 

[Bloody Wolf]

It's obviously impossible to tell the fate of Illidan from that cinematic. He could've died, or possibly been rescued by Kael/Vashj and brought back to Outland, or something entirely different. Blizzard chose the survival option, I don't see where all the fuzz is coming from.

Kael and Vashj probaly rescued him because they were also in the battlefield and would never leave Illidan behind unless he said so. Thats what i think

 

[trolman]

It's obviously impossible to tell the fate of Illidan from that cinematic. He could've died, or possibly been rescued by Kael/Vashj and brought back to Outland, or something entirely different. Blizzard chose the survival option, I don't see where all the fuzz is coming from.

See my post.

Edit @ bloody wolf

Ressurection is more of a game mechanic than a lore part. Like why wouldnt Thrall ressurect Grom ?

 

[Linaze]

See my post.

Edit @ bloody wolf

Ressurection is more of a game mechanic than a lore part. Like why wouldnt Thrall ressurect Grom ?

I don't know what there's to see.

So Arthas believed Illidan dead, or left him bleeding to death in a pool of blood surrounded by a freezing terrain.

 

[trolman]

Maybe he could have used him as an undead slave ?

 

[Linaze]

Maybe he could have used him as an undead slave ?

Arthas was clearly weakened during that entire campaign, maybe he didn't have enough power to turn Illidan into one of his slaves?

Look; no matter how much we speculate, the facts remain. Illidan did survive, and if you give it more than a brief second of thought, it's not necessairly that farfetched either.

 

[Bloody Wolf]

Maybe he could have used him as an undead slave ?

Well that would be awsome

but i think it would be too difficult to ressurect a half elf half demon creature

 

[trolman]

Arthas was clearly weakened during that entire campaign, maybe he didn't have enough power to turn Illidan into one of his slaves?

Look; no matter how much we speculate, the facts remain. Illidan did survive, and if you give it more than a brief second of thought, it's not necessairly that farfetched either.

Its incredible to note how powerful money are. In my opinon they wrote he survived just to get a famous dungeon boss.

 

[Bloody Wolf]

Its incredible to note how powerful money are. In my opinon they wrote he survived just to get a famous dungeon boss.

Well saddly thats Blizzard nowadays

 

[Linaze]

No; That's business since always.

 

[Footman16]

As long as the Alliance would win then Warcarft IV would be fine by me.

And by win I mean stromgarde rebuilt, Gilneas rebuilt, Lordaeron retaken, Blood Elves turn back to High Elves and rejoin Alliance. Horde lives in peace yadda yadda yadda.

Well for a more reasonable storyline I think if they just fixed the dents in WoWs and made it more... RTS singleplayer friendly then sure. To keep the lore going they could release a custom campaign every so often that advances the story. Which would undoubtedly make it last longer than Warcraft 3 which still isn't dead as proven by this website.

Some of the dents include Kul Tiras disappearing for no good reason, Galen being risen back as a Forsaken and swearing to bring down the Kingdom he protected I mean, why?
and the list goes on.

The World editor could also be improved for War 4 I mean they could make it easier to clear leaks for example. Change the ridiculous tileset liimit would also help. If they could also make it easier to create or change custom races that would be stress-relieving.

 

[Bloody Wolf]

Some of the dents include Kul Tiras disappearing for no good reason

The Kul Tiras disapeared because Admiral Proudmoore was killed by Thrall and Rexxar so it IS agood reason