New Content Discussion [SPOILER]

[LickMyEyeBall]

With the amount of lore you're providing for each regiment its fair to call them legions at this point. Much like roman legions, each has its own story and banners.

 

[Shar Dundred]

1.) will you include these regiments in the faction sheet so we can find them easier and don't have to like scroll trough the news posts to find them (or maybe to have them easier reading in the faction sheet)

Yes.

2.) Maybe I need to take off my tinfoil had but when saw you comment on Jayborinos armies of exigo let's play i had like a Jimmy Neutron brain blast and realized how similiar the factions are: The empire (made of humans,elves and dwarves and stuff) who work together to fight the savage beasts (aka orcs) but soon have to fight a more dangerous threat, The fallen (Who are kinda like the undead except evil) big scary dudes who team up with elves who have noble houses and gain the elves alliance by helping one of the nobles/priests and the beasts and finally the beasts (who are kinda orcs) a race of savages who have been at war with the empire and have to unite the clans and are basically a factions made out of savage species like lizardmen,ogres,goblins etc (tribal dominion)

I played Exigo, but... no. If you compare the lore, you will find it to be very different.

With the amount of lore you're providing for each regiment its fair to call them legions at this point. Much like roman legions, each has its own story and banners.

They are regiments.

 

[Jayborino]

@Shar DundredMaybe I need to take off my tinfoil had but when saw you comment on Jayborinos armies of exigo let's play i had like a Jimmy Neutron brain blast and realized how similiar the factions are: The empire (made of humans,elves and dwarves and stuff) who work together to fight the savage beasts (aka orcs) but soon have to fight a more dangerous threat, The fallen (Who are kinda like the undead except evil) big scary dudes who team up with elves who have noble houses and gain the elves alliance by helping one of the nobles/priests and the beasts and finally the beasts (who are kinda orcs) a race of savages who have been at war with the empire and have to unite the clans and are basically a factions made out of savage species like lizardmen,ogres,goblins etc (tribal dominion)

I think there are definitely some uncanny similarities between Exigo and Arkain, but I really don't see how an Alliance of Humans, Elves, and Gnomes is one of them considering this is an extremely common fantasy trope also found in Warcraft 2 and 3. By the way, Dwarves as a society don't seem to be part of Exigo's Alliance. Further, the campaign is called the Empire campaign, but I don't think the titular "Empire" is referred to even once in any of the missions, haha. Arkain's Empire, nor it's Kingdom's are governed by a council of Mages.

Now, you wanna talk about a peasant rebellion, let's talk about a peasant rebellion, haha...
The Tribal Dominion definitely shares a lot more in common with the Exigo Beast faction than with the Warcraft universe Horde. Also, the Undead comparison is a stretch, but the DARK ELVES living underground is sort of a clear connecting link lol. Nothing like some good ol' DARK ELVES.

In any case, Arkain at this point has exponentially more content than Exigo ever had, has way more differences than similarities, and all media is derivative anyway especially in the fantasy genre.

 

[deepstrasz]

I think there are definitely some uncanny similarities between Exigo and Arkain

I thought @swarmlord1231's post was about Exigo and Warcraft III, initially.

Also, Shar used censorship

As for Arkain, it has multiple influences: Warcraft, SpellForce, Warhammer, Exigo, Heroes of Might & Magic, LotR perhaps, maybe ASoI&F.

Dark Elves isn't something exclusive to Exigo. They were first seen as underground creatures in D&D if I'm not mistaken (well foremost from Norse mythology). Exigo took many things from D&D like the Mind Flayers/Illithids which they are in close relation to the dark elves in D&D. Also, the Fallen have Beholders/Evil Eyes, something you also see in D&D.
As for the Beasts, they're obviously greatly inspired by the LotR movies as well as D&D where lizardmen (called lizardfolk) were a thing for like forever (1980s).
So Exigo took more from D&D whereas Warcraft from Warhammer.

 

[Shar Dundred]

*cough*
Time to dig up the old Arkain Question Time Archive.

126) What was the motivation for you to make Legends of Arkain? I can see that you took a lot of inspiration from Warhammer and Warcraft, is there something else that motivated you?
Motivation
Ironically, WarCraft took quite a lot inspiration from Warhammer, even to a point where some people say Blizzard stole much, but that is neither the place to discuss this nor do I want to.
Well, the motivation was pretty simple. I had already created around 80 campaigns for WarCraft 3 in my younger years. Most of these were parts of a series, I think it was about...I cannot remember how many, maybe ten series?
Anyway, none of them were released, the maps never had a quality that would make them worth releasing - today, all of them are lost anyway. I didn't intend to release any of them either since they were made for me and some friends to play, not to be published. One day, however, I wanted to create a campaign series that I would upload, a campaign series with quality high enough to be approved in the Map Section. That was in 2012. Sadly, my computer got broken and I considered the files lost. I didn't want to start from anew, lost motivation and focused on other things instead. In 2014, I recovered the files and started the Arkain thread (Btw, on Friday, the 11th of August was the 3rd anniversary of the thread).

Inspiration
A question I have been asked a lot in the past already. There is no real inspiration for Arkain.
When I first started Arkain, I didn't know ANYTHING about Warhammer Fantasy, only a small bit about Warhammer 40k. I never really grew to like most of the WarCraft lore that came with WarCraft 3 and afterwards - especially most things related to the Orcs. And let us not even get started about the things WoW changed.
I was, however, a Fantasy fan. For the "base" I took some ideas from, believe it or not, Lord of the Rings.
I didn't take too much from it, though, I think mostly just the East VS West theme. The rest came from my own mind.
However, I had read the Ulldart series (a fantasy series with an intriguing story, sadly only available in german), which had a pretty dark story with much intrigue and plotting, both war and political games.
I liked it, but I often encountered situations where I was like "I would have done that a different way".
I didn't take anything from that series, but I think you could say it inspired me to create my own fantasy universe, along with other factors.
In addition, I have already created my "own" universes in the past (the other series I mentioned above), so I had "some" experience on that.

 

[Mvicio]

What makes you think I would limit them to the Second Orc Book?

No one, that why i said that maybe we could play them during the human missions, when we are playing as imperials instead of the kingdom.

Yeah, @Mvicio. He will limit them to pictures and forum text.

Also to IA enemies with much cooler factions.

 

[Shar Dundred]

News are coming... soon (TM).

 

[Boriss]

@Jayborino well, the elves are technically governed by a council when the Queen is off shore, and there are some nasty manipulation masters in Exigo as well as Arkain, but yes, they are only similar in these general features, which, to be honest, are in almost every fantasy world
by the way, I played Exigo extensively couple years back and Im well versed in its lore and gameplay mechanics. And the gameplay both here and in Exigo have some veeeery distinct features.

 

[DD Mikasa]

but what if Largoth/Dark one was telling the truth. Partially at least. Would that sway his blind loyalty? I guess we may never know.

There is a reason why OUT of all the available character models Shar chose to depict the dark one's avatar as a Dreadlord,we all know what a Dreadlord's bread and butter is.

Now i am not saying that everything the Dark one said was a lie but it aint a true either, my take ,he has sprinkles of truth in what he says but twists them according to his own agenda.

As for Rahandir he isnt really following blindly Aridon because he belives on Aridon's vision of truth and balance,he values the fact that unlike his former master Aridon never tried to backstab him and it didnt even take away his free will,Rahandir is a lich by the product of his own magical powers(i think in his story he basically reanimated himself after he was torn apart) Aridon recruited Rahandir after he took revenge upon the king who backstabed him and left his free will intact.So Rahandir turning his back away from Aridon especially when Aridons visons were tested and proven wrong after what happened in the epilogues of the first books shows that Rahandir isnt really around Aridon "cuz of his foresight and visions".

 

[Mvicio]

The file says 5 missions but i only has 4 so:


First mission. In the cinematic It says grunt, instead of searider.

Happy to meet more named Orcs, not just deathbreeze ones

So there are more Zyaise followers in Toran, not just the mayor from the capital.


Second mission.

It was great, those changes make the story much better

Thats how amari met Bryan.

Also a bit more insight on Ephrog, arent we sure that Ephrog is Sasrogarn father? They seem to have many things in common

An Rangul and Grozfag are a little less traditionalist.

Imperials didnt attacked, not sure if they just defend themselves or were bugged.

Third mission.

Cool items, we never get to play as Aridon on SUB so its nice to see those ones

Lumberjacks are back baby.

That Largoth portrait….

It seems a lot easier since Aridon is quite stronger.

Now the distribution makes more sense, nerubians once you defeat Haran, Banshee in the possesed nexus, shieldguards on the scarec nexus, and dark magic/necromancy in the Zirr Nexus.

Also, at the end the nerubians and Orcs are sent to the Ejara and Ardoz Nexus. Maybe a Slave orc clan in the future breed by the Ejara?


Fourth mission.

Now Largoth is bald, that was unexpected. Did Zindrach tore his hair apart too?

Same old mission, just the final dialogue change

Also unique item for Largoth, a super strong vampiric aura.

 

[Kasrkin]

Well, it seems Hive did not seem fit to alert Shar with my report on the pre release version. Oh well, he knows now and is upset.

I made suggestions for the chapters, so stay tuned 'maybe' for possible changes.
---
Oh well what do you know.

 

[Verb8im]

Chapter 2: As others have said, the imperials never really attacked. Amari's abilities are interesting. Thunderstorm doesn't seem right as an ultimate for an orc huntress. Unless that's the only time we play as Amari before she gets her shadow powers.

Chapter 3: Says chapter 1 on the loading screen. Aridon's Heart of the Dead Mountain item's description says it increases agility and intelligence but it actually increases agility and strength. The nerubian overlord dialogue played when the orcs attacked me.

I'm on chapter 3, so I don't know if there are bugs in chapter 4. Also, will the True Story be going in chronological order, jumping back and forth between races, or was that only for the demo and the full version will have them separated?

EDIT:
Chapter 4: Death Coil still has its vanilla hotkey, whereas i assume its supposed to be Q

 

[Mvicio]

Amari's abilities are interesting. Thunderstorm doesn't seem right as an ultimate for an orc huntress.

Well, It seems that amari hace more connection to the sea and the water element, sounds right coming from the deathbreeze clan.
Sasrogarn had a better connection with summons and Grozfag with earth Magic.

 

[Boriss]

Sounds right since summons, like Sas, go poof when things get tough.

 

[Shar Dundred]

Apart from bug fixes and tweaks, the next demo will also feature an overhaul of Chapter Four which I have finished yesterday.
It gives a deeper insight into Selior's mind (I mean you are INSIDE his mind) and some small other specials.
And since Largoth is quite strong now, it will be made harder, I mean he has an actual vampire ability now.
I will also look into his walk animation, I would like him to use the dreadlord one instead of the sorceress one. I do like his new bald look though.

EDIT:

Also, will the True Story be going in chronological order, jumping back and forth between races, or was that only for the demo and the full version will have them separated?

The True Story will be chronological rather than sorted by race.
I know Chapter Four may give a different impression regarding this but the next version of it will fix that.

 

[Championfighter25]

The Viewpoint Lore mechanic is cool. Though for people who play for the first time, it may be too much information to take in.
Concerning the chapters:

Chapter 3

- Aridon's Heart of the dead mountain increases his strength and agility instead of agility and intelligence as it's written on the tooltip.
- Personally, I think it would be better for the Cloak and Heart of the dead mountain to be combined into 1 item.
- Since Krom had his AOE heal removed, adding a critical strike like ability as a replacement won't be a bad idea.

Chapter 4

- In Largoth's Dreadclaws tooltip, you should replace the second to with an of
- While very subtle, I think Wrath's rant can be made much more meaningful if he doesn't refer to Greymoore by his first name.

Chapter 5

- Other people have already mentioned the bugs. I'll wait for the Harmos bugfix before playing the chapter again.
- This felt way bigger than a clash.

 

[Tuwnew]

Nice update!

I like new Blen's units! Grey Guard sounds really generic though.

The small memory of Selior were heartbreaking. It was a nice touch!
By the way, I would have probably swapped those chapters. Starting with Blen saying how Selior is his friend and THEN having Selior hating him sounds better than the opposite. Also for new players, it would be better to know who is Blen before talking about him!

I know the AQT is over but, I have two questions:

- When True Story is finish. Are you recommending people to play it before or after the others books? Also, knowing that True Story is "better" gameplay-wise, what are your plans for the old books?

- In first Human Book, Salaran and Zarin mission coop against Orcs... Sasrogarn was meant to die but... What are your plans? Scrap it? Change the enemy?

Also, could you please rename your campaign name to "Legends of Arkain, The True Story" instead of the opposite? I am lazy to go to the T row instead of the previous and famous L lol!




Concerning your Viewpoint Lore. I think it's a good idea! Although, I don't like reading too much lines on quest logs. It's too small.

 

[LISBOAH]

My review of Chapter Five:

-Opening cinematic: It is pronounced "generosity" not "generousity"

-For some reason the glow (the ones that come from our Heroes' Auras) on the Warhounds appear above their heads, while on everyone else they it appears beneath their feet as it should

-This happened to me. I am not sure if it did to anyone else. The "Raid" Optional Quest is completed twice
Chapter Five | HIVE

-Harmos' interlude: "I already know who that is." rather than "I already know, who that is."

-Hamos vanishes while casting the spell. Since Championfighter25 had the same issue, I will wait for the next version that will fix it to finish the mission


Those Selior's flashbacks were truly depressing, to say at least. Though that one between Selior and Blen felt somewhat out of place, unless Blen's fiancee was at first asked by Selior and rejected him, or something like that.
I personally don't blame Blen for this. It is just the others' opinion of him that caused most of the problems.

A pity we never got, and most likley, won't get the chance to play as Selior. The poor guy had such a sad past and in the campaign he is mostly just a pawn to Aridon's and Largoth's plans.

 

[Shar Dundred]

The Viewpoint Lore mechanic is cool. Though for people who play for the first time, it may be too much information to take in.

That is also one of my concerns about this new mechanic.

- While very subtle, I think Wrath's rant can be made much more meaningful if he doesn't refer to Greymoore by his first name.

True, true.

I like new Blen's units! Grey Guard sounds really generic though.

Suits him though.

By the way, I would have probably swapped those chapters. Starting with Blen saying how Selior is his friend and THEN having Selior hating him sounds better than the opposite. Also for new players, it would be better to know who is Blen before talking about him!

I think there was a reason for doing it this way rather than the other way around but I don't really
remember it. I will think about it.

- When True Story is finish. Are you recommending people to play it before or after the others books?

I think it is better to consider them different series to avoid confusion.

Also, knowing that True Story is "better" gameplay-wise, what are your plans for the old books?

None.

Concerning your Viewpoint Lore. I think it's a good idea! Although, I don't like reading too much lines on quest logs. It's too small.

I get you, but the alternatives are... well, worse.
Another idea was adding text commands to the questlogs which, when used, displayed the
text & allowed you to read the entire thing in the log but you will agree that is also not a great
alternative.

-Opening cinematic: It is pronounced "generosity" not "generousity"

Both are correct, actually.

-For some reason the glow (the ones that come from our Heroes' Auras) on the Warhounds appear above their heads, while on everyone else they it appears beneath their feet as it should

That happens on some models (Orc Huntress has the same issue), I think that's related to
buggy attachment placement. Maybe I can fix it.

Those Selior's flashbacks were truly depressing, to say at least. Though that one between Selior and Blen felt somewhat out of place, unless Blen's fiancee was at first asked by Selior and rejected him, or something like that.
I personally don't blame Blen for this. It is just the others' opinion of him that caused most of the problems.

That one will be made clearer later.
Until then, it serves the purpose of showing that Blen still considered Selior his friend.

A pity we never got, and most likley, won't get the chance to play as Selior. The poor guy had such a sad past and in the campaign he is mostly just a pawn to Aridon's and Largoth's plans.

It's not like he'll lose his head over it. Oh wait.

 

[deepstrasz]

Both are correct, actually.

You sure?
Can't find generousity in the dictionary.

 

[Shar Dundred]

I just checked my dictionary before I wrote that but I guess I'll just replace it to avoid a civil war.
Updated the demo to adress reported bugs & also other small things.
Also added even more dialogue to Chapter Four because why the hell not.

Next on the menu:
- Prologue (finally)
- Chapter Six & Seven (one featuring the best sarcastic lich on the continent, one introducing
you to a general who likes to go toe to toe with any foe no matter the size)

 

[Boriss]

"one introducing
you to a general who likes to go toe to toe with any foe no matter the size"
We´ll get to play with Lerrig? :O

 

[Tuwnew]

I think it's Bull regiment General.

Remember chapter two of first human book? There were prisoners. I think it's them!

 

[gaurdian of the flame]

I think it's Bull regiment General.

Remember chapter two of first human book? There were prisoners. I think it's them!

i think the same but maybe their base will be cut off rather than be a prisoners because i don t think the bull regiment will surrender

 

[Mvicio]

I think it's Bull regiment General.

Him, or Gardon.

 

[Hardric62]

Him, or Gardon.

Chapter 5's ending tells the Bull Regiment is engaging another group of Orcs, so I'm pretty sure that will be them who appear.

 

[Mvicio]

Chapter 5's ending tells the Bull Regiment is engaging another group of Orcs, so I'm pretty sure that will be them who appear.

Yep, i just finished the chapter and i thought so too. But anyway gardon fights toe to toe with any foe no matter the size, ask the demons.

 

[LickMyEyeBall]

Yeah, I agree with the common sentiment, Selior's flashbacks are devastating.

Those Selior's flashbacks were truly depressing, to say at least. Though that one between Selior and Blen felt somewhat out of place, unless Blen's fiancee was at first asked by Selior and rejected him, or something like that.
I personally don't blame Blen for this. It is just the others' opinion of him that caused most of the problems..

Think there's a reason its there. Later on we get information about "how Blen couldnt even keep his..." by Selior. The man sees Blen being a jackass while everyone else praises him.

Also could someone tell me where to read those Viewpoint Lore pieces? It said quest log, but I just couldnt find it there. Or maybe I just didnt recognize it with a glance.

 

[Championfighter25]

Also could someone tell me where to read those Viewpoint Lore pieces? It said quest log, but I just couldnt find it there. Or maybe I just didnt recognize it with a glance.

In the optional quests part of the quest log.

 

[DD Mikasa]

Yeah, I agree with the common sentiment, Selior's flashbacks are devastating.


Think there's a reason its there. Later on we get information about "how Blen couldnt even keep his..." by Selior. The man sees Blen being a jackass while everyone else praises him.

Also could someone tell me where to read those Viewpoint Lore pieces? It said quest log, but I just couldnt find it there. Or maybe I just didnt recognize it with a glance.

The optional quest section.

 

[Verb8im]

Chapter 5, updated version

- i was playing as the grey guard and got the wolf regiment as my allies when I destroyed the ironthunder base. They sent out a few attacks then just stopped building entirely. They still harvested gold and lumber, but didn't build units or upgraded

 

[Championfighter25]

In the ending cutscene of chapter 4, there's is a small typo. It should be numbers instead of numbes.
In chapter 5, there's a small typo in the mission description. It should be through instead of throuth.
Also in chapter 5, if you choose the Grey Guard, you can still train Artisans. Same for the Peons if you choose Wolf Regiment. Both their hotkeys are set to Q.
If you cast Harmos' Fire Shield, another ability called ''Fire Shield Book'' appears.

 

[Nayala]

General :
- The lore in the quest log is good. People who don't care don't have to read it, but those interested by the story get useful bits to understand it.
- Upgrades are not interesting. I don't mean you shouldn't do the upgrades you can, I mean that in missions with a base, you can go full upgrades in 5 minutes and never worry about them again. Traditionally in a RTS, the trade-off of upgrades is that it takes precious time from the production buildings and resources, which slows down the critical massing of units. In mission 2 and 3, this isn't a worry at all. I suggest a significant cost increase so that it's bad to research upgrades asap - but also bad to never research them, adding more depth as finding the right timing helps to succeed.
- Wood is kind of worthless. I have been gold constrained, but never wood constrained. While I do appreciate in many ways that workers don't count for the food limit, this also means that with a light investment you can have enough to never worry again about wood.

On chapter 1 :
- Destroying all the required buildings in the first quest is rather boring, maybe they could have less HP to speed things up.
- The male villagers that come to fight even if weak are a nice touch. But the women and the children just standing there waiting to be butchered feel weird, they should try to flee.
- The only heals available are from runes, but there is no time pressure at all. At one point, I left the game running for 15 minutes while doing other things, and came back to more healed units, nothing bad happened. The whole mission is about running into different group of enemies that are waiting to be butchered in small groups. Even the knights guarding the mansion can be picked off separately from the main mansion inhabitants.
- Overall, the mission felt rather easy, even in hard. The biggest tension happened at the end, because the catapult deals big damage onto the ship, but I don't think it makes up for the rest being stale.

Of course, this is an introductory mission, but some timer on the return of the lord to his mansion after his hunt could make it more lively, especially once the player realize he still needs to go back to his ship and the lord may attempt to pursue him.

On chapter 2 :
- In faction knowledge, Rodan is said to be to the east. But the human kingdoms are on the west of Arkain. I always thought the Empire was to the west, I think you made a mistake in this description.
- The attack waves from humans, elves and dwarves are very frequent in hard, not allowing to relax. Because of it, I neglected taking out the demons to the north (they had almost killed Amari when I went scouting) because I had not seen the gold mine. I returned there when almost out of gold. The 1M mine was welcome.
- I made several advanced outposts with towers and production buildings to take out the waves while getting closer to the enemy bases. It was tough, as I didn't gain gold much faster than I had to spend it to replenish losses.
- The fight to take out the human base was long and challenging. The attack waves only attempted to go around me and hit my forces in the rear once. The east road seem significantly underused compared to the west one by the attack waves.
- After the human base was out and I could exploit a second goldmine, it became much easier. Dwarves had the most annoying attacking waves, but less attacking waves and more gold meant it didn't take long to push them.
- The secret passage towards the elven base is cool.
- The attack waves from the elves were not a bother at all in the end and I could just chill, it was down to converting the forced win. The elves had more resistance than expected, but I had virtually infinite resources with 3 exploited gold mines to flood them, so after getting pushed back once (I killed some human and dwarves in the process, who of course didn't get replaced) I could overwhelm them.
- What were the humans doing guarding the field ? The 250 gold/lumber in the warehouse was useless.

On chapter 3 :
- I suggest increasing the revealed spots around the nexus so that the player can see that the additional goldmines are to the south.
- Aridon is supposed to know what nexus do what. It's fine to keep the player in the dark when the character isn't supposed to know either, but here some tips would be appropriate.
- I was worried at the start because of the gold supply, but the mission ended up very easy. Having enough army and towers at home to repel orc attacks and enough troops to go with Aridon to clean up the Nexus and the sidequest's nerubians is not too much trouble, and the repetitive attacks from the orcs don't require much strategy to deal with. The orcs opposed more resistance when taking out their base, but I was floating lots of resources by this point and after some production buildings were taken out the flood broke them.

On chapter 4 :
- I usually don't like too much missions without a base, but this one was great. Vices vs virtues was very original, the story part interesting, the fights challenging. I could remove half of pride's defender when they followed me after a hit and run, though.
- Largoth's area stun is overpowered. I'm bad at microing with many units having spells, but stun+taunt+heal was terrific.

 

[Tryce09]

Well i only played the orcs mission of the previous demo but can't write my opinion before


Chapter 1(i seen that nothing really big change in the new demo)

Spoiler

Gameplay
Two warlocks > 1 warlock and 1 necrolyte
Axe thrower usefull because nobody has defend.
Elite wolf rider(Gold seeker right?) useful because can survive a little more.
With good microskill all your units can survive
BTW that mayor is the true final boss(he follow and kill one of my searaider for all the village LOL)

Storywise
A total improved
The mother of vanessa can fight to(but she die on battle or like the goldaxe rider say, burning alive in the house?)
Horthog(the goldaxe boss) is the hero that rangul need, but he didn't deserve(for the future), i really like the gold axe clan now, they are jerks, but cunning ones. Like vikings

Chapter 2

Spoiler

Gameplay
Well the imperial's IA doesn'twork(fixed now)
Because the elven used more spell breakers and the dwarfs use a "grunt", your ranged units are useful now(in the past everyone and their mothers use footmen with defend make the towers and "orc hunter" useless)
I miss rangul for his chain lighting, but amari is ok but(aleast for my) only her command aura is useful .(and now she has esnare)
Only a ring of regeneration? (fixed, now she starts with pendant of energy so you can use her spells) but sill, few loot.
IDK is this fixed or not or if this is a bug(probably), but amari is sooo broken that break the space-time and can use goblin units.

Storywise
Well the one who actually take the OP scepter was amari, and his brother stole the glory.
So, Ephrog bretayed amari, but he really feel that was wrong(and sas is probably is more cunning than we thought or Ephrog has a weak mind)
Zarin believed that Rangul killed his brother, but it was me Amari!

I already played the other 3, but i will opine later after replay the chapter 5 with the wolf boys.

 

[Shar Dundred]

- Upgrades are not interesting. I don't mean you shouldn't do the upgrades you can, I mean that in missions with a base, you can go full upgrades in 5 minutes and never worry about them again. Traditionally in a RTS, the trade-off of upgrades is that it takes precious time from the production buildings and resources, which slows down the critical massing of units. In mission 2 and 3, this isn't a worry at all. I suggest a significant cost increase so that it's bad to research upgrades asap - but also bad to never research them, adding more depth as finding the right timing helps to succeed.

That's a WarCraft thing though. I never really cared to change the "original style" of it too much
regarding timing.

- In faction knowledge, Rodan is said to be to the east. But the human kingdoms are on the west of Arkain. I always thought the Empire was to the west, I think you made a mistake in this description.

Yeah, the Empire is in the west, that's a typo that I & Kasrkin both did not notice. Good find!

The 1M mine was welcome.

Oh right, I should change that.

- What were the humans doing guarding the field ? The 250 gold/lumber in the warehouse was useless.

Just a small extra area for a "faster start". It's a nice little thing to have, but that's about it.

- I usually don't like too much missions without a base, but this one was great. Vices vs virtues was very original, the story part interesting, the fights challenging. I could remove half of pride's defender when they followed me after a hit and run, though.

Yeah, Largoth getting his power boost catapulted him on a new level strengthwise, the old
version was much easier in comparison. I want "baiting enemies" to be an option for players
hence I did not do anything to avoid it for most of my maps and I will continue this trend.

- Largoth's area stun is overpowered. I'm bad at microing with many units having spells, but stun+taunt+heal was terrific.

Largoth is a beast now, indeed. ( :

 

[Boriss]

Finally got to do some proper wolficular orcslaughter. Felt sooo good. Will probably bite me in the ass but I decided to give the orcs no quarter and wiped the Goldaxe clan just like all the others.

 

[LISBOAH]

Finally got to do some proper wolficular orcslaughter. Felt sooo good. Will probably bite me in the ass but I decided to give the orcs no quarter and wiped the Goldaxe clan just like all the others.

Wow, you decided to take the hardest choice simply for the chance to kill more orcs?
And here I thought I was a player with a tendency to play evil...

 

[Shar Dundred]

To be fair, you guys were always not very orc-friendly. Poor Hortnog.

 

[deepstrasz]

Hortnog

Hotdog.

 

[Shar Dundred]

Hotdog.

You turned his wolf into that?
Cold.

 

[LickMyEyeBall]

Am I the only one who bribed them?

 

[Boriss]

They deserved it. After what they did to Vanessa´s mother... I just feel pity that there will probably not be the Redfist ending in this true story.

 

[Championfighter25]

In Arkain, you have to lose some with the humans to lose more with the orcs and vice versa. Sounds like a good payoff to me.

Am I the only one who bribed them?

They were a very small base so bribing them felt like a big waste of gold.

They deserved it. After what they did to Vanessa´s mother... I just feel pity that there will probably not be the Redfist ending in this true story.

Ironically, they were also the sane ones, since they had the idea of returning Vanessa to Volarian.


On a side note, it would be nice for the Goldaxe Clan to get an ''Improved Pillage'' ability or something of that nature.

 

[Hardric62]

Largoth is a beast now, indeed. ( :

Excuse me Shar, but that's a typo. His proper name is Baldgoth now.

 

[Tryce09]

Am I the only one who bribed them?

You are not alone, besides the far seer comment was hilarious

Hortnog: thanks, well... bye.
Far seer: WTF?!

They deserved it. After what they did to Vanessa´s mother... I just feel pity that there will probably not be the Redfist ending in this true story.

They still escape in the end

On a side note, it would be nice for the Goldaxe Clan to get an ''Improved Pillage'' ability or something of that nature.

I believe they have one, in the description in the chapter 1

 

[Shar Dundred]

On a side note, it would be nice for the Goldaxe Clan to get an ''Improved Pillage'' ability or something of that nature.

They have that.

 

[ZeroNight31]

Chapter 5, updated version

- i was playing as the grey guard and got the wolf regiment as my allies when I destroyed the ironthunder base. They sent out a few attacks then just stopped building entirely. They still harvested gold and lumber, but didn't build units or upgraded

the same happens when you choose the wolf regiment

 

[Tryce09]

Well i finished to play the chapters 3,4 and 5 in the current demo.

Chapter 3

Spoiler

-Aridon has good items to feel more powerful nice, but he has low priority that krom so krom always is the first in the group(krom true undead lord?)
-Skeleton shieldguard is "A regular skeleton soldier" thats BS, but i believe for now. Better that a ghouls and easy to get, only you will use the abomination just for overkill.
-Nothing change so much, but the true enemy here are the small corridors and the RAMP of the orc's base, brave undead soldier and haran "whaever his names was" died for the greater good.

Lorewise
-Well is the undead introduction, so is ok, the new lore about the experiments with the orcs(so skeleton orcs next?) and nerubians.

Chapter 4

Spoiler

Gameplay
-Good micro mission, but the most difficult group was the first one, the rest are easy if you pull the groups like a pro.
-Bravery has hardened skin ? Because survive a lot for someone with 4 armor.
-Cruelty(the one with death coil?) and lust are the more useful here, but they have low priority so if use TAB you pick them very slow, the other sins without micro skill or passive skil have more priority.

Lorewise
-Well Largoth is a demon(and darklord) so act like one.
-Poor Selior, the universe can't stop to screw him for five minutes. But also explain WHY has a wrath against blen.

Chapter 5

Spoiler

Gameplay
-Why so many initials units...? YOUR BASE IS UNDER SIEGE! oh! i see now.(and the second wave can potential ruin the day)
-After play with the 2 factions... Grey guard > wolf regiment
-Yeah, the grey guard is maybe "generic" or "standard" but is reliable, durable and easy to use. The wolf regiment is cannon fodder, and the grey guard is elite cannon fodder. Defend here is better that the frenzy, a the crossbowmen always is good. Also blen's imperial edict is GOD TIER(always was)
-No captain unit for blen?
-Wolf captain unit has roar? usually are passive, but i suppose is for blen's aura.
-Zoia the wolfwoman has no howl of terror?
-The clans are more diverse so the enemies group has more variety
-Ah my good friends of the goldaxe clan, never change.
-I feel that this mission is more easy that the previous melee missions.(specialy the orc)
-Blen only get one upgrade for the castle. i think that was a wasted.
-No wolf spellcaster?
-This mission will be short if not for the harmos part.

Lorewise
-I have a theory about zoia

Spoiler

She is blen's sister in law, if we taked the selior memory and something bad happened to blen's wife and maybe was blen fault.

-Well at least the characthers improved a little or show more personality.
-Who choose the names? Grey guard? i mean, we only know 2 guards, the royal guard and the golden guard. Grey army is better that other ones? Regiments are inferior that "color" + guard? or is just a name because Blen and his grey surname?
-Every time that i say the grey guard, i remember the grey wardens.
-What happen with the forest trolls? No one used forest troll in the orc's force.

Bugs
-You can use both peseants
-Looks like once you recover the control of your army after harmos part the IA ally stops.
-Zoia die for the cause in the last battle against red, she IA revived but she die again before get the control back and i could't revive her so she was lost for EVAH until the cinematic of course. IDK if this can happen to blen too.

 

[Nayala]

Trycex rises some good points about priority, I was also annoyed in mission 4 that my "melee" and "range" groupe selects didn't have the unit with the most useful active spells on top.

That's a WarCraft thing though. I never really cared to change the "original style" of it too much
regarding timing.

If you play a melee map where you start from scratch, begin fights early to level up your hero, and have strong resource pressure because you need to build a lot of stuff all at once, then the default W3 costs probably make sense. With humans, there is also the cost of getting the required building (it helps to collect wood for orcs/undead so is "free").

Things are different in a campaign map with attack waves.

A cost around 500G, which is the cost of about 3 units, would in my opinion be more appropriate.

I also noticed that upgrading towers is something like 50% more expensive in your campaign compared to melee, so you've already done some adjustments to base warcraft things.

Just a small extra area for a "faster start". It's a nice little thing to have, but that's about it.

With all the attack waves, I wouldn't go so far off my base to kill a bunch of units, especially as losing just one unit eats most of the gold you can gain.

Something else I remembered in chapter 3 :
- The skeleton lumberjacks is using the human peasants voice lines, that feels very weird.

As for chapter 5 :
- It's good to find back good ol' Blen
- Interesting choice with grey guard or wolf regiment. I went with Blen's grey guard. They're simple but effective. I tested the wolf regiment a bit. The warhounds are cannon fodder. The soldiers are already not very powerful, but the warhounds have less HP, less armor and slightly less attack, so their survivability is worse. Where it gets interesting is with the other units. The stalker exchanges some armor with some HP, and attacks worse than crossbows. But the hunter mode upgrade gives a small dps boost (tested shooter mode vs hunter mode, who kills the other first !) while giving a big improvement in range, so that's something. I still prefer crossbows, however. What makes the wolf regiment interesting is the dreadwolf. The great movement speed has little use when it needs to stay in group with other units, and 4 foods for a unit that dies just as fast as a 2 foods grey guard soldier (before the castle upgrade giving them 100 more HP) is not great. But it has roar. 25% bonus damage without the tech, 35% bonus damage with it. This is what makes the wolf regiment as strong if not stronger than the Grey Guard.. Once all your units get the nice dps increase from roar, their stats don't look underwhelming at all anymore. I still wouldn't train many warhounds, but stalkers under roar should be able to eliminate enemies faster than crossbows. And you don't really need cannon fodder when you can instead increase DPS, I think full stalkers beat mixed stalkers + warhounds. I played with a mix of soldiers and crossbows at the start but went full crossbows later on with heroes as the first contact layer, and soldiers are better at taking damage than warhounds.
- Does the castle unlock any upgrade if playing with the Grey Guard ? I noticed the dreadwolf upgrade with the wolf regiment, but don't remember anything with the grey guard.
- Being able to bribe the goldaxe clan is a nice touch. If you don't build much before they arrive, you can bribe them almost as soon as they arrive, and for 2500 gold I think it's clearly the easiest option. Not having to face their attack waves mean you can progress faster in taking out the ironthunder clan and the middle bloodaxe base, and have much less risk being overwhelmed if 2-3 attack waves arrive together. But 2500 is high enough to make sense story-wise and be felt if you've to wait until you collect it. I still went with killing them off, though. No quarters for greenskin marauders.
- The layout remains very similar to the FHB mission, I didn't notice significant changes (except more space for the starting base) but that isn't a bad thing here.
- You can train the two type of peasants, instead of only the one from your selected regiment.
- You can go with catapults in front of the closed darkmind base and just destroy all towers and kill all the bloodaxe units sitting in there when they go near the door in reaction. It makes taking out the darkmind base later on easier.
- In the part with Harmos, Firemages are so frail with no armor... I lost one by being careless early on and another by being sloppy. But their stun is very nice, and this part of the mission was fine.
- I know that in the middle base, some buildings get removed to have place to barracks and other required buildings for when we're playing with Harmos. But I already had a nice setup with 3 barracks and 2 sanctums that got removed in the process.
- About the allies... I also noticed they stop training new units, and stop sending attack waves. But this is not related to Harmos, they did so before I had destroyed the red base, after having sent about 3 attack waves. Not sure why, they had more than enough resources to train more troops. I noticed that their gold count increases only by 1 when they collect gold, I thought in campaign scripts AI take 1 from the mine but collect 10, and have normal spending.

General :
- With mission 3 to 5, we're dropped in a situation where Isalmur has already fallen and Lor is already half-conquered. I checked the FHB prologue, and the fall of Isalmur is quickly talked about with "one kingdom has already fallen". Here so far we have nothing. I assume you focus more on missions than interludes for now, but some interlude between missions 2 and 3 showing the demonic invasion begin and initial reactions from humans would be welcome. Considering the Empire had time to send reinforcements across the sea, some weeks and probably months elapsed between the initial attack and the moment where the demons were almost at the dead mountain.
- These missions would feel more dynamic if the AI had some scripts to expand. Every few attack waves, they would try to build advanced outposts with some towers and units to control territory. The AI rebuilding its base after an attack is great, but capturing more map control would go a step further.

 

[LISBOAH]

Just played the Chapter Five, and now that the bug has been fixed, I played it till the end.

-I don't know if this is a bug or part of the game, but when Harmos arrives to Blen's base, all of our Peasants stop working. I only realized this minutes later.
-Just a suggestion, but is weird for the Artisans to have the Peasant's soundset. He should have the same of the other Wolf units.
-If we choose the Wolf Regiment, all the Peasants already on the map should be replaced by Artisans.
-Harmos' quote when he sees the demons: "Demons? Here? They must have..."