Mini-mapping Contest #9 - Map Size Limited

[Brambleclaw]

Outrageous claims deserve outrageous responses, but I'll try and restrain myself.

You're wrong on every level.

If you are trying to counter my argument prove it.

 

[A Void]

-- The difference is games are fully customization with no basis you can make one from scratch even have your own engine, that's why functionality is more important in a game. A map is a mod to an existing game, its still based on the same engine, so the actual room for coding is very small compared to the making of the game itself.

Its very difficult to make laggy triggers tbh, even with massive leaks a game can go on for an hour or so before you notice any FPS drop. Besides if your not using jass, then its extremely difficult to fail in GUI. Which is why triggers are less relevant.

I agree!

 

[Cokemonkey11]

If you are trying to counter my argument prove it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mod_(video_gaming)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_(video_gaming)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitchens'_razor

I don't have to, your logical fallacies and purely subjective claims are utterly ridiculous. Just go read and stop spewing your nonsense for others to incorrectly learn from.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mod_(video_gaming)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_(video_gaming)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitchens'_razor

I don't have to, your logical fallacies and purely subjective claims are utterly ridiculous. Just go read and stop spewing your nonsense for others to incorrectly learn from.

....

 

[Tickles]

How about we start lightening the mood with some WIPs... I'll be posting mine up within the next few hours.

 

[bajaist]

How about we start lightening the mood with some WIPs... I'll be posting mine up within the next few hours.

Good idea.

I've been working on triggers, so there is still not much to show, visually. The concept is still the same, kind of an escape game, where fire is burning from the bottom of the hill and you must get to the top or get to the river (or something) to escape.

WIP 2

 

[TheWhiteWolf]

How about we start lightening the mood with some WIPs... I'll be posting mine up within the next few hours.

I was reading trough the comments and was just about to say that.

 

[Brambleclaw]

Btw -- the wikipedia for mods -- on the dota2 wikipedia page, it states dota was originally a mod for wc3. so yeh





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Can we use custom sounds we have found on the internet as long as we provide credits and source?

 

[Tickles]

It's not like we're making money off these maps, so it's not that big of a deal. But for site rules and possible copyright issues, I would assume as long as the sound is open source and originally made by the uploader of it, then it's perfectly fine to use in your map with proper credits (I always have in previous contests). It might be a different story if it's a unique sound ripped from a game.

 

[eubz]

Btw -- the wikipedia for mods -- on the dota2 wikipedia page, it states dota was originally a mod for wc3. so yeh





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Can we use custom sounds we have found on the internet as long as we provide credits and source?

Do as what you would do but always be guided with hive rules.

 

[GunSlinger]

Oh man oh man. What a shitstorm this is. And all for 5 points?
Anyways I'll be posting a WIP soon.

 

[BLazeKraze]

For me, Terrain is one of the important features of the map .Yes, Triggers is important too , because it controls the game play . The point is, the terrain is the appearance of the map .
If the terrain is good, it is more attractive than the others . But also we need to consider the scripting process .

As a terrainer, I give more priority to the terrain since the map size is 32x32 . Oh I will ask you , do you want a map with empty tile but has a good trigger ? How do you define that ? How people will notice if the game is awesome ??? Not insulting , But in the map section, I saw many many maps with bad terrain but good in triggers . But sometimes, the map is protected that's why we cannot see the triggers ....
So, for me, terrain is the first thing to view by the people . Next the gameplay, script , etc .

So , do you want to play a map using a low quality models and using one tile or using a dalaran tile, cityscape only ???
My eyes hurts when I saw a map that lacks in doodads and creativity ...

 

[Kazeon]

So , do you want to play a map using a low quality models and using one tile or using a dalaran tile, cityscape only ???
My eyes hurts when I saw a map that lacks in doodads and creativity ...

but my heart hurts also when I saw a map with epic visual but with very basic gameplay.. I still prefer to play a map with bad terrain but decent coded gameplay like DOTA than map with awesome terrain but very basic coded gameplay like ICEBORN..

You definitedly can't say that terrain is absolutely more important than trigger.. gameplay is the most important, and trigger defines the gameplay, just remember it..

 

[BLazeKraze]

but my heart hurts also when I saw a map with epic visual but with very basic gameplay.. I still prefer to play a map with bad terrain but decent coded gameplay like DOTA than map with awesome terrain but very basic coded gameplay like ICEBORN..

You definitedly can't say that terrain is absolutely more important than trigger.. gameplay is the most important, and trigger defines the gameplay, just remember it..

But we need to consider terrain also .. .
Ice born is awesome for me, even the author used a basic triggers ....
And also, dota is full of bugs ... I noticed that , because I'm always playing dota, here in the philippines, dota is the famous game in warcraft , but most of the players has no knowledge about warcraft and they don't notice some bugs. I experience when I used tango (6.79) ,. My tango is 1 remaining charge only then I put it on the courier's inventory, I changed my courier model and the tango became 3 ...

And also,, some spells has bugs, like lesrac, some time, the explosion won't vanish, I don't know why ....

If you always play dota, you will noticed some bugs,

---
For me , terrain is one of the important ....
So, why cokemonkey said that "this guys cares about terrain, see nobody cares" ...
It is offensive for a terrainer ...

 

[GreeN!X]

If it's okay for you, Here's what I think about what you just said

Not insulting , But in the map section, I saw many many maps with bad terrain but good in triggers . But sometimes, the map is protected that's why we cannot see the triggers ....

You only care about visuals. I have strayed in the map section a few times before and I've observed that most of the reviews are comments on how empty the map is (even though the reviewer clearly have only looked in the minimap), how bad the description is, or the usual visual comments. It's quite rare that people would compliment a modder by how smooth the map goes and how fun it is to actually play and not just stare at the map.

And, even if the map is protected, it is fairly easy to differentiate a map with bad triggers or with good ones.

Oh I will ask you , do you want a map with empty tile but has a good trigger ? How do you define that ?

Sure, why not? I'd rather play a single tiled map with an amazing gameplay than a map with fancy high-poly models and great terrain but with crappy gameplay and frequent errors and ultra laggy gameplay.

If you're indulged in gameplay, you'll hardly notice the crap terrain. Just look at DOTA for example. Or those naruto, bleach and anime maps. People play those not because of the terrain but because of the awesome gameplay and battles.

I absolutely haven't seen any player saying "Aw man this map only has a single tile variation but with so awesome gameplay. Cheap. C'mon dude, let's play that template terrain I downloaded from that site!"

How people will notice if the game is awesome ???

By not staring at the terrain and rather actually playing the map?

So , do you want to play a map using a low quality models and using one tile or using a dalaran tile, cityscape only ???
My eyes hurts when I saw a map that lacks in doodads and creativity ...

Why not? What's the problem with low quality models? High-quality models usually look crap when used in WC3. There's that great feel normal WC3 models can give you.

Just check out Dalvengyr's entry. You can play that in an arena generated with a square brush (size 8) of cityscape cliff and the players won't give a damn at how simple the terrain would be. They'll be too busy having fun with the gameplay.

One does not define creativity just by the visuals.

cre·a·tiv·i·ty
ˌkrē-āˈtivitē/Submit
noun
the use of the imagination or original ideas, especially in the production of an artistic work.

You can easily put off a good show using the right combination of good SFX and good triggering.

As a terrainer, I give more priority to the terrain since the map size is 32x32 .

This is the exact opposite of what should be done, imho. You have such a tiny map to work on that the terrain can be done in a few minutes or so.

I'll be working on my map again tomorrow. I think I've found a good missile system here in hive that supports arcs. New wips will be posted when I'm done with it.

 

[BLazeKraze]

This is the exact opposite of what should be done, imho. You have such a tiny map to work on that the terrain can be done in a few minutes or so.

You can create an awesome terrain in that size..

You only care about visuals. I have strayed in the map section a few times before and I've observed that most of the reviews are comments on how empty the map is (even though the reviewer clearly have only looked in the minimap), how bad the description is, or the usual visual comments. It's quite rare that people would compliment a modder by how smooth the map goes and how fun it is to actually play and not just stare at the map.

And, even if the map is protected, it is fairly easy to differentiate a map with bad triggers or with good ones.

Because the map will become more attractive if the visual is good ....
Because Most of the people will look first in the description, terrain , next the gameplay ....

---

I said this thing because cokemonkey said "this guys cares about terrain, see nobody cares" I'm offended...
That's why we need to consider terrain , don't ignore terrain .

 

[Tal'Rarity]

Terrain is important, but if you would rather focus on it rather then gameplay then your game will likely end up being a one-time play.

Looking good so far to all the WiP's, more discussion and less argue maybe? That's my opinion anyways good luck.

 

[BLazeKraze]

Terrain is important, but if you would rather focus on it rather then gameplay then your game will likely end up being a one-time play.

I don't said that ignore the gameplay , my point is, don't ignore terrain too ...
They are important if they combine ... Look gaias retaliation...
But for me , my first priority is terrain next is gameplay .. etc .

 

[Tal'Rarity]

I'd rather ignore terrain for an epic gameplay myself, just make sure there's something to look at while moving through the game. Look back to the first/older games and you'll see that terrain isn't as important as you think.

Sadly though everyone looks for looks now, but that lasts for a day if lucky if by itself.

Edit: Just my opinion, terrain is important no matter.

 

[BLazeKraze]

I'd rather ignore terrain for an epic gameplay myself, just make sure there's something to look at while moving through the game. Look back to the first/older games and you'll see that terrain isn't as important as you think.

Sadly though everyone looks for looks now, but that lasts for a day if lucky if by itself.

That's why we don't need to ignore the terrain because the people will look first for the appearance ... generating good terrain is not bad, it is good and amazing , good terrain + good gameplay = epic map ....

 

[Daffa]

Alright, let's stop this terrain vs trigger scoring nonsesnse.
Here's a big point : you can't make a replay able map without using BOTH trigger and terrain, and BOTH are less important than Gameplay.

I ever played some decent terrain map with buggy trigger, result : rarely played the map again, unless it did brings decent entertainment.
Also applies the other way around.

So, let's just get this over.
I wish for a decent replay able maps, not decent triggers and visuals but the gameplay sucks (trust me, it does more harm than good).

 

[GreeN!X]

Off topic

And also,, some spells has bugs, like lesrac, some time, the explosion won't vanish, I don't know why ....

That is intentional. :3

That's why I love leshrac. Those random explosions are good tower destroyers + it can kill an enemy hero even if you're already dead.

And the tango thing is pretty cool eh? I won plenty of games just because of the cash I saved with that bug. But they patched it up real quick.

Soooo... Anybody made progress today?

 

[Gekigengar]

I wish it were 64x64, had a few Ideas in mind

 

[sonofjay]

Haha, too bad I made TLS around April 17 if only I waited a little bit more then I could have participated here with that map.

Anyway, good luck everyone.

 

[GywGod133]

You said... Terrain is important than gameplay/trigger.

 

[eubz]

The current point system is now as it is, let us move on, people.

 

[Guramax]

Hey.., ummm.., Excuse me lads and lasses.., How can I join this contest?? I really wanna join some of the events back then but I don't know how.., hehehe..,

 

[Kazeon]

this contest is gay only, that's the only requirement. if you feel that you are appropriate with that, then you can join any time

With Love,
Dalvengyr

 

[GreeN!X]

Hey.., ummm.., Excuse me lads and lasses.., How can I join this contest?? I really wanna join some of the events back then but I don't know how.., hehehe..,

You can join anytime. No registration or whatever.

 

[Rheiko]

i'm planning to make a hunting game or what the hell it is called, where we are going to hunt our enemies with traps and things.

gonna add some decorations soon, this is for now.

WIP

 

[A Void]

this contest is gay only, that's the only requirement. if you feel that you are appropriate with that, then you can join any time

With Love,
Dalvengyr

wut?

 

[GunSlinger]

wut?

You need to be a homo to join.

 

[WaerercraftKillers]

This idea looks like HU (hunting unlimited) lol, BTW the terrain is good, but is this a fps map?, well if it is then find a tut for this.

 

[Rheiko]

wut?

You do know that he was joking right? =.="
there's no requirement, if you want to join
just make your map, post your wip and post the map when it's finished, done

This idea looks like HU (hunting unlimited) lol, BTW the terrain is good, but is this a fps map?, well if it is then find a tut for this.

well.. no, i'm not interested with FPS game and hunt animals
we'll hunt each other here! reduced sight, range attacks, traps, special abilities and such

 

[TheWhiteWolf]

I will begin with reporting people who continue to discuss how should the terrain and triggers be evaluated. I would also like to encourage everyone else to join me in doing this.
I think that the judges should just open a chat somewhere and work it out between themselves.
Or, just open another thread and fight over there.

 

[Kazeon]

I will begin with reporting people who continue to discuss how should the terrain and triggers be evaluated. I would also like to encourage everyone else to join me in doing this.
I think that the judges should just open a chat somewhere and work it out between themselves.
Or, just open another thread and fight over there.

yeah, so mods and admins will join the war go on!

 

[eubz]

Any other new WIPs here?

 

[rulerofiron99]

Custom missile system that will do cool things like roll on the ground. Right now it just bounces nicely. It's hard to see in the video, but the boulder's animation speed gets reduced with each bounce so it comes to a standstill quite seamlessly.

Map will be a defense game of some sort. The player is an ancient protector, and after every wave of creeps you'll receive a choice of 3 perks. These boulders will use items as ammunition, so camping is not an option.

 

[Tal'Rarity]

Cool projectile system ruler.

 

[Kazeon]

yeah, I smell interesting gameplay behind it

EDIT:
My entry (not final)
I was just improving the AI, fixing bad terrain, and fixing some animation troubles.. I find myself can't find all possible bugs by myself, so I need help..

 

[rulerofiron99]

Thanks, hopefully I get around to finishing it.

My entry (not final)
I was just improving the AI, fixing bad terrain, and fixing some animation troubles.. I find myself can't find all possible bugs by myself, so I need help..

Could be decently fun, and I'm quite impressed with the AI.

- I didn't like the camera movement. Add an option to disable the auto rotation.
- More than anything, the gameplay felt very spam-y. Mash right click to get somewhere quick, smash W to prevent falling off, and drill Q in the hope that one of your attacks hits. While this does raise the skill ceiling, I feel it removes some potential depth from the game. If you couldn't brake as quickly, you'd have to plan your movement more carefully. If you had a longer cooldown or manacost on your attack, you'd have to aim better.
- The plain map wastes a lot of potential for the game. The small size removes the option for juking and epic chases, and the lack of obstacles leaves the combat very shallow. I suggest you add obstacles, pits, and increase the ring size somewhat. Ideally, the option to select from various maps, but this is the comp's theme so not much choice there.

I didn't find any bugs.

 

[Kazeon]

EDIT: How could I become so offensive? D: I'm sorry for that. I have been used to be underestimated, my bad sorry. I think that's why I will never win or get DC (accomplishing my mission here). I'm just too confidence of winning this one, without considering the FACT

anyway, here is a replay from me. Make sure you watch it on fullscreen with 320p res. pay attention on the scoreboard, look at how I win the match, and how many streak I have made there hope you like..

 

[BlackKnightTGS]

Map will be a defense game of some sort. The player is an ancient protector, and after every wave of creeps you'll receive a choice of 3 perks. These boulders will use items as ammunition, so camping is not an option.

Sounds quite interesting, I like the bouncy rocks in the vid. Will there be multiple boulder/ammunition types, or just one?

 

[rulerofiron99]

Sounds quite interesting, I like the bouncy rocks in the vid. Will there be multiple boulder/ammunition types, or just one?

My current thinking is:
- All rocks are the same, to simplify which item in your inventory is consumed when thrown
- Different perks change how your projectile behaves, e.g.
-- Explodes on impact to deal aoe, further upgraded to launch shrapnel rocks
-- Rolls across the ground without losing horizontal speed to act as a line damage spell
- Behaviour also differs based on what it collides with. A small unit would be crushed, while a big unit would receive some knockback and destroy the rock.

EDIT: How could I become so offensive? D: I'm sorry for that. I have been used to be underestimated, my bad sorry. I think that's why I will never win or get DC (accomplishing my mission here). I'm just too confidence of winning this one, without considering the FACT

Didn't see your post pre-editing, but I'd just like to add that I'm sorry if my post came across as rude. I just try to be honest with my analysis of gameplay, and I have made similar maps before so I have some experience in what makes it fun (for me at least)

BTW I do think your map has potential. Like I said earlier, the way it is now allows for a very high skill ceiling, like in fast-paced 2D fighting games. Maybe you could add a jump spell or something like that.

 

[Kazeon]

Didn't see your post pre-editing, but I'd just like to add that I'm sorry if my post came across as rude. I just try to be honest with my analysis of gameplay, and I have made similar maps before so I have some experience in what makes it fun (for me at least)

BTW I do think your map has potential. Like I said earlier, the way it is now allows for a very high skill ceiling, like in fast-paced 2D fighting games. Maybe you could add a jump spell or something like that.

just want to remind you to think before giving advice, will your advice improves or not? currently, it's not..

- I didn't like the camera movement. Add an option to disable the auto rotation.

just think about it, the gameplay will be 10x emptier if I remove it

- More than anything, the gameplay felt very spam-y. Mash right click to get somewhere quick, smash W to prevent falling off, and drill Q in the hope that one of your attacks hits. While this does raise the skill ceiling, I feel it removes some potential depth from the game. If you couldn't brake as quickly, you'd have to plan your movement more carefully. If you had a longer cooldown or manacost on your attack, you'd have to aim better.

how could it removes the potential bla bla? current movement and combat system is at the best possible and the best thing I can offer in this game. Could you think about any other combat/movement system that would fits better with the gameplay? if so please tell me.. And do you even consider how boring the game will be if I add some cooldown? You don't need to shoot all the time, at last I will add something like statistic board which will show some records of players (accuracy, efficiency, kill-death, etc.).

- The plain map wastes a lot of potential for the game. The small size removes the option for juking and epic chases, and the lack of obstacles leaves the combat very shallow. I suggest you add obstacles, pits, and increase the ring size somewhat. Ideally, the option to select from various maps, but this is the comp's theme so not much choice there.

you wouldn't see anything like trees, rocks, etc. in arctic environment, I'm just trying to be "realistic", I wouldn't add anything, it's just right. I was trying to add some trees and it just break the mini-game feeling..

Just a clue, actually, I'm not taking any advice, just bug report and ideas. I believe that I can make it better with my own way..

 

[Brambleclaw]

EDIT: How could I become so offensive? D: I'm sorry for that. I have been used to be underestimated, my bad sorry. I think that's why I will never win or get DC (accomplishing my mission here). I'm just too confidence of winning this one, without considering the FACT

anyway, here is a replay from me. Make sure you watch it on fullscreen with 320p res. pay attention on the scoreboard, look at how I win the match, and how many streak I have made there hope you like..

seems like Icebreakers but spammier. The break function is nice though.

I think'd it be nice as someone previously mentioned if you added a Jump Function, it'd also be pretty cool if the projectiles had stats that could be leveled

-- Weight -- Speed - Reload time -- etc.

 

[Kazeon]

this is my pure idea, Idk there is any game like this before.. well, it's indeed impossible to find something new today

Jump? for what? that will makes the gameplay less practice (harder control). Thanks for advices anyway

EDIT:

spammier

I dont get how could it be spammy? have tried to give some cooldown and it become so boring as hell

EDIT2:
indeed spammy, but who cares when you have fun with it?

 

[GreeN!X]

I was reading through some stories my sister made/stored in her laptop and found this neat little psychological story there that I think will be really cool if turned into a game. And, since I'm sulking up the fact that I'm absolutely no good with making multiplayer games, I am going to dump my current map and start with a new one and base the lore on my sis' story.

Dump:

 

[TheWhiteWolf]

Allright, my final concept:
A four-man dungeon crawler.

Enough said. At least two, perhaps even three heroes should be done by this weekend. My first wip will be posted as soon as I am done with all four of them.

 

[ILH]

Wow, nice WIPs
Good luck, guys!