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[Altered Melee] Medieval Strategy Overhaul

Discussion in 'Map Development' started by UmbraUnda, Dec 30, 2016.

  1. UmbraUnda

    UmbraUnda

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    Oo0oo ok. Hmm, that's interesting - I was going to eventually build a platform to rotate on - might as well have the wheels there. Sure, I'll take it - Thanks.

    Haha, great! Glad to have you on board.
     
  2. Xonok

    Xonok

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    There are instructions in Castle Defence, so you'll have to elaborate a bit more about what it is that doesn't work. The main thing that I can see is that various triggers use rawcodes directly, so you'll have to change those if you didn't use the original map. E.g 'A00N'.

    The stuff I said about armor and evasion aren't really a matter of opinion. It's just mathematics. You can't make a unit in default WC3 that is better the more armor an opponent has.
     
  3. UmbraUnda

    UmbraUnda

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    The instructions only go over unit id and only allow for a specific set of units and buildings. So I gotta figure out how to change some variables and change+add more units and buildings to the trigger. When I copy and paste the triggers from that map to my map, it doesn't work because the variables+units/buildings change from that map to my map. I see some obvious lines to change but most are complex so I'm not sure about everything that I have to change so that it works. Also would changing the unit id of the walls in my map to match the id of the castle defense map help make some of the trigger work?
     
  4. Xonok

    Xonok

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    It should help, yes.
    You can find every unit ID in the triggers quite easily if you know what to look for. They are always between ' signs.
    However, adding new types is something that's bound to be more complicated. You need to be able to read and understand the code for that.
     
  5. UmbraUnda

    UmbraUnda

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    Nice. Cool, that'll help me find em. Well, guess I have to look harder or find someone that knows jass/triggers...
    If you can look through it and tell me what has to change, I'd really appreciate it, but if it's too much to do it's all good. Thanks for the help
     
  6. UmbraUnda

    UmbraUnda

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    Well, it's been a week. I've made a lot of progress on buildings, custom pathing, upgrades, techs, and stuff that I wasn't gonna do for the beta test but its ok it'll just add the quality experience and be worth the extra wait. All that's left is unit stats, costs and abilities + Terrain

    I'm estimating one more week for having the beta test version ready - could be more or less though, my school semester just started and is messing with my schedule.
     
  7. TheFrenchLeprechaun

    TheFrenchLeprechaun

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    First rule with schedules : no schedules :p! More seriously, take your time, the beta release is an important step. I agree with the quality experience thing!

    You have a good concept, you seem to have a good realisation of it, and you have testers ready to give it a look. Keep up, you're close ;)!
     
  8. GhostThruster

    GhostThruster

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    not that relevant but i have a suggestion that may or may not work for your map, or be worth the effort.

    if you want to be realistic, have the 'mainline' infantry be spearmen instead of swordsmen. not only is this more historically accurate (spears were to swords what rifles are to handguns, i.e. weapon of war vs. sidearm), it could emphasise mechanics like formations and bracing against cavalry charges. the classic "spearmen deal 150% damage vs cavalry and suck against everything else" is very simplistic, robbing the potential for a lot of interesting counterplay options. in real life, how effective spearmen were against cavalry depended on their formation, morale, and how heavily armoured the cavalry were.

    tl;dr make spearmen the primary infantry, emphasise counterplay through tactical usage rather than damage tables (e.g. tight formation spearmen > charging cavalry, but archers > tight formation spearmen, but loose formation spearmen > archers and artillery)

    now, it's fairly obvious that your map isn't going for total war realism and is more along the lines of the arcade-y AoE feel, but hopefully it's at least some food for thought. we rarely see a map - or even a game, for that matter - attempt to even shallowly replicate these nuances of real medieval combat.

    whether you consider this or not, good luck with finishing the map (y)
     
  9. UmbraUnda

    UmbraUnda

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    Hey - thanks for the feedback. I like where you're going with this however I'm leaving unit production up to the player. If the player wants to mass up swordsmen or spearmen, its up to the players - you have a point tho, I know it is historically accurate and happened because spearmen were cheaper than fully armored knights - that difference in unit cost will reflect into the game too.

    I'd love to have unit formations and a working spear wall that could counter cavalry but that requires a lot of custom scripting - maybe one day when I have someone experienced in triggering to help me make that possible. Or if I can find a similar system here on Hive and I can figure out how to implement it. I would love to have different unit formations, charging units, spear/shield walls and all that. For now it will be the standard wc3 combat system with overhauled damage/armor mechanics.

    Yeah - spearmen already have a 175% bonus vs cavalry if you look at the images on page 1 - mechanics overview has a damage table.

    I like all your suggestions and most are already in effect or in the works- I can also say each unit type will be unique with their own abilities. Also different weapons will have realistic cooldowns and differences (example: maces/hammer will be slow and cause staggering than swords which will be fast and cause bleeding.)

    Well, I would want it as realistic as possible but for wc3 I can only do so much y'know. Maybe one day, if this map is popular I can remake it on a Unity system to be much more realistic and have its own game engine however that's a long way away and takes man power and $.
     
  10. SNIper of DARKness

    SNIper of DARKness

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    About unit formations, there is a map about it: Unit Formation Test could prove useful though it has it's downsides.
     
  11. UmbraUnda

    UmbraUnda

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    Interesting - not sure about training squadrons of 10 units, however the unit formations are pretty solid. Useful - hope I can reconstruct this to work on groups of individual units.
     
  12. SNIper of DARKness

    SNIper of DARKness

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    Hey, are those team coloured pauldrons I see? If so could you tell me where to find them, I would find them extremely useful.
     
  13. UmbraUnda

    UmbraUnda

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    Yes, indeed they are. Depends- which ones are you referring to? A few of them are reskins of this one model here on hive, the rest are custom rips from other models.

    Let me know which one you want or if you want them all and I'll send you links.
     
  14. SNIper of DARKness

    SNIper of DARKness

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    Yes, if that would be possible I would like them all.
     
  15. UmbraUnda

    UmbraUnda

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    Alright sure - wait did you only want the pauldrons or the pauldrons and the armors?
     
  16. UmbraUnda

    UmbraUnda

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    Updated the line up of ships - amount of ships up from 4 to 8 now. Also reshaped the longboat to be less round and more long. I feel it's still a bit lacking and there needs to be some modeling/texturing touch ups however it's an improvement and adds more basic and advanced ships for more options.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. TheFrenchLeprechaun

    TheFrenchLeprechaun

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    Nice set!

    If you need ships models, I have some packs from the different model websites (XGM and Goblin Academy mostly). If you're interested to give it a look just let me know!
     
  18. UmbraUnda

    UmbraUnda

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    Thanks. Sure - more resources are always good. Send me links.
     
  19. UmbraUnda

    UmbraUnda

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    Beta will be ready soon - within a few days probably, latest by next weekend.
     
  20. UmbraUnda

    UmbraUnda

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    Yet another week of progress - However its still not ready for testing. I feel I have greatly underestimated the time it takes to do stats for ~200 units. On top of that, I'm getting more and more homework from school that's chipping away at my free time.

    So here's what I got done and what's left to do before I feel comfortable releasing a rough alpha test map.
    Finished - New Icons, Resource Costs, Build Times, Movement Speeds, Sight Radius, Unit Sounds, Some Abilities, Unit Upgrade System.
    Unfinished - Terrain (50%), Requirements (techtree), Damage & HP amounts, Weapon Sounds, Unit Descriptions (50%), More Abilities.

    Also, there's a lot that still needs works for the future however the triggering and jazz customizing is beyond my skill. Going to need help to implement triggers/jazz found in MassiveMaster's Castle Defense which features rotating buildings, buildable walkable walls, new construction + building upgrade system, and more.

    As for the test map - I want to say one more week but idk really with my schedule right now.