[Altered Melee] Medieval Strategy Overhaul

[TheFrenchLeprechaun]

Here is my feedback, brace yourself I have a lot of things to say ^^! And I haven't tested everything, especially warfare stuff (yeeeeaaah killing wolves, forever alone xD).

Let's begin with good points. The biggest strength of your map is probably the huge techtree available to the players that enables them to pick a "made to measure" strategy. I love your creativity in designing upgrades, especially how you link a stats bonus to a concept (+ mana and mana reg for Divine doctrine for example). I see a lot of work on unit models too, the whole army is a coherent whole, and it's easy to identify weakest units from the strongest ones. I think the bet of the realism is successful for all those reasons.

Some things that didn't work (but maybe that they aren't implemented yet) :

• Piercing shots for the balistas
• Regrowing trees
• Upgrading a unit to the next level

Some things that have to be improved in my opinion (but again maybe that it is planed to be improved)

• Icons, don't understimate icons ! I know that's a pain in the a** to make his own icons, but once it is done the game gain a lot more in clarity. And all kinds of them : PAS icons for passive skills, ATC for automatic skills, DISBTN, UPG, etc...
• Heroes. They're too close to regular units, especially when they're low level. But I'm aware it's difficult to design heroes in a realistic context (because real heroes just doesn't exist in real life )
  
• Some buildings are too big (I think about archery for example). The scaling is good in term of realism, but some of them are taking a loooot of place on the screen A higher camera system could be a good solution, but I fear that some units become too small...
  
• The minimap. There are a lot of big red dots for creeps, I think this can be configured to be medium orange dots or green small dots (but I must admit that I don't know how, maybe in game constants). Besides, stone isn't clearly identifyed on the minimap, like goldmine in regular wc3.
• Terrain. I know that wasn't at all your priority, but I just wanted to notify that the highest mountains are... a bit too high ^^.

Some minors things that could be easily fixed :

• Stone harvesting sound is a bit annoying, a more muffled sound would be more appropriate.
• Some game messages related to "stone" still display "gold"
• The texture of the straw roofs isn't very good looking due to the size of building models. Updating the in-game texture with a better quality one could be an easy fix.
• (X,Y,Z) coordinates of the departure of the throwed/shooted missiles.

And finally, some things that don't enter in previous categories :

• Packed trebuchet. It seems to have the exact stats (except attack) than its unpacked version. So what's the point? Remember our discussion about permanent alternate form. I think the packed version should have one or several advantages such as a higher movment speed or a higher defence.
• Siege units doesn't have a minimal shooting range. Maybe there's a reason for that? But knowing the effort you put in realism I think you should think about it.

In summary, congratulations for the work you've done, the map looks very promising. But the huge techtree implies a lot of work in order to make it perfect. I tried to be as constructive as possible in my feedback, I hope it will help you

 

[UmbraUnda]

Err- having trouble hosting it on Ent

Here is my feedback, brace yourself I have a lot of thing to say ^^! And I haven't tested everything, especially warfare stuff (yeeeeaaah killing wolves, forever alone xD).

Let's begin with good points. The biggest strength of your map is probably the huge techtree available to the players that enables them to pick a "made to measure" strategy. I love your creativity in designing upgrades, especially how you link a stats bonus to a concept (+ mana and mana reg for Divine doctrine for example). I see a lot of work on unit models too, the whole army is a coherent whole, and it's easy to identify weakest units from the strongest ones. I think the bet of the realism is successful for all those reasons.

Some things that didn't work (but maybe that they aren't implemented yet) :

• Piercing shots for the balistas
• Regrowing trees
• Upgrading a unit to the next level

Some things that have to be improved in my opinion (but again maybe that it is planed to be improved)

• Icons, don't understimate icons ! I know that's a pain in the a** to make his own icons, but once it is done the game gain a lot more in clarity. And all kinds of them : PAS icons for passive skills, ATC for automatic skills, DISBTN, UPG, etc...
• Heroes. They're too close to regular units, especially when they're low level. But I'm aware it's difficult to design heroes in a realistic context (because real heroes just doesn't exist in real life )
  
• Some buildings are too big (I think about archery for example). The scaling is good in term of realism, but some of them are taking a loooot of place on the screen A higher camera system could be a good solution, but I fear that some units become too small...
  
• The minimap. There are a lot of big red dots for creeps, I think this can be configured to be medium orange dots or green small dots (but I must admit that I don't know how, maybe in game constants). Besides, stone isn't clearly identifyed on the minimap, like goldmine in regular wc3.
• Terrain. I know that wasn't at all your priority, but I just wanted to notify that the highest mountains are... a bit too high ^^.

Some minors things that could be easily fixed :

• Stone harvesting sound is a bit annoying, a more muffled sound would be more appropriate.
• Some game messages related to "stone" still display "gold"
• The texture of the straw roofs isn't very good looking due to the size of building models. Updating the in-game texture with a better quality one could be an easy fix.
• (X,Y,Z) coordinates of the departure of the throwed/shooted missile.

And finally, some things that don't enter in previous categories :

• Packed trebuchet. It seems to have the exact stats (except attack) than its unpacked version. So what's the point? Remember our discussion about permanent alternate form. I think the packed version should have one or several advantages such as a higher movment speed or a higher defence.
• Siege units doesn't have a minimal shooting range. Maybe there's a reason for that? But knowing the effort you put in realism I think you should think about it.

In summary, congratulations for the work you've done, the map looks very promising. But the huge techtree implies a lot of work in order to make it perfect. I tried to be as constructive as possible in my feedback, I hope it will help you

Great feedback mate.

To upgrade units, position the unit close to the building originally trained from - then upgrade. Sorry there's no notification or warning when the upgrade is out of range. I'll get a trigger implemented sooner or later for the notification.

Yeah - I didn't know how to make DISBTN icons work however I figured it out an hour ago and will implement that asap. I'll make more disables and passive versions of icons soon + icons for each unit type so icons aren't so overused among foot soldiers.

Heroes are supposed to be close to regular units at lvl 1 - once they hit lvl 10 they really stand out as an experienced hero should.

I agree on buildings - it is realistic scale however its still painfully small unless you zoom in and out frequently. I'm considering doing a 10-20% building size reduction.

Hmm not sure how to make certain groups of creeps a green dot, yellow dot, etc. Do you know how or link a tutorial?

Yeah, some mountains can definitely be lowered.

O snap! Oops. Is trebuchet's movement speed always stay the same? I'll double check that one. Yeah, a higher defense for packed version makes sense.

Honestly forgot about minimum range - definitely going to add those to all catapults + siege towers.

Thanks a bunch. I'll get working on updating this map for next week's testing.

 

[Xonok]

For buttons:
Button Manager v1.8.2

Creep camp levels are defined in game constants iirc. Essentially the level of a creep camp is the combined level of all the units in it and the camp sizes are defined in the constants or somewhere like that.

 

[UmbraUnda]

0.2a - In Production

Added Quests - Tutorial, Camera & Credits
Fixed missing icons
Building size reduced by 10-20%
Custom Pathing for Buildings
Additional tech requirements
Shortened file name (Now appears in game list)
Added descriptions to Attack and Armor types (% vs armor types, % vs attack types)\
Locked Player Settings (Always Human)
Added more stone throughout map
Walls slightly more expensive
Hawk & Falcon sight range increased
Updated Cavalry Icons
Implemented Markmanship Upgrade (train at Archery Target)
Implemented Canine Training and Animal Husbandry (Train at Barn)
Implemented unused abilities that had required upgrades (Smoke Bomb, Piercing Ballista, Burning Oil - Explosive Barrel)
Fixed Market and Cathedrals shop abilities - Items now buyable (Item Abilities still need work)
Paths can now be built upon

 

[UmbraUnda]

About to release v0.2a
Should be released later tonight, maybe sooner.

Let me know if you can test tomorrow and at what time you're available.

 

[UmbraUnda]

Just released v0.22a

MedievalStrategyOverhaul_v0.22a

 

[UmbraUnda]

Just released v0.23a

MedievalStrategyOverhaul_v0.23a

Check out the change log for what's new.

 

[Xeryxoz]

Bugs found :

Upgrading level 4 archer outside of the Archery range gives archer +1 hp each time you try to upgrade it, and all though no money is taken away, and the archer is NOT upgraded, the archer keeps gaining +1 hp, the bug is so critical that I had a 10k health archer
(Please check out also paladin from 1 to 2, same bug)

Fix the A hotkey from upgrading archers (and all other units) into U, so that it does not mess with attack move or anything else

Mounted Lancer 5 sounds like drake

 

[UmbraUnda]

Bugs found :

Upgrading level 4 archer outside of the Archery range gives archer +1 hp each time you try to upgrade it, and all though no money is taken away, and the archer is NOT upgraded, the archer keeps gaining +1 hp, the bug is so critical that I had a 10k health archer
(Please check out also paladin from 1 to 2, same bug)

Fix the A hotkey from upgrading archers (and all other units) into U, so that it does not mess with attack move or anything else

Mounted Lancer 5 sounds like drake

I tested today with some people on MMH and apparently almost every single unit has that bug and I have no idea what's causing it.

Yeah, there are some hotkey conflicts that need reworking.

Thanks for the feedback - I'll get to it soon. Let me know if you come up with an ideas on how to fix that +1 hp bug.

 

[Lasersquid112]

Make ranged artillery miss more often. I do not believe that they have snipers operating the trebuchets.
Make Biremes, Triremes, and Quinquiremes.
Add catapults to specifically large ships.
Make small, swarm-like ships have a Ram upgrade.
Prototype Man-O-War's. Note, these did not have cannons, but were heavily armed and armored. For wooden ships, anyway.
Add boarding parties.
Add several different types of transport ship. For example, Ship A is available until you complete Research A1, then you can build Ship B (replaces Ship A in dock menu) until you complete Research B1, so on and so forth.
Add Commerce Raiders. (Ships that do not show player colors)

 

[Xonok]

Hotkey conflicts come easily because people usually have localized hotkeys. You can fix that by specifically setting every hotkey. The problematic ones are usually the common ones like move or attack, which you can change in Game Interface iirc.

 

[Jampion]

which you can change in Game Interface iirc.

I think you need to import a certain text file to do that.
How to change the basic actions of the game's hotkeys?
Edit Hotkeys and save in Map: Move, Patrol, Build, Select

 

[Xonok]

Not really. You could do it that way, but you can just change the hotkeys through Game Interface.
Having separate text files is useful when you don't have access to the map and want to change hotkeys for the whole game.

 

[Jampion]

Not really. You could do it that way, but you can just change the hotkeys through Game Interface.
Having separate text files is useful when you don't have access to the map and want to change hotkeys for the whole game.

I am not talking about customkeys.txt, but a file, that changes hotkeys for only this map.
You must overwrite Units\CommandStrings.txt" with this file.
I think this is the only way to have custom hotkeys on abilities, you cannot edit in the object editor. I never saw something in the game interface about it.

 

[UmbraUnda]

Make ranged artillery miss more often. I do not believe that they have snipers operating the trebuchets.
Make Biremes, Triremes, and Quinquiremes.
Add catapults to specifically large ships.
Make small, swarm-like ships have a Ram upgrade.
Prototype Man-O-War's. Note, these did not have cannons, but were heavily armed and armored. For wooden ships, anyway.
Add boarding parties.
Add several different types of transport ship. For example, Ship A is available until you complete Research A1, then you can build Ship B (replaces Ship A in dock menu) until you complete Research B1, so on and so forth.
Add Commerce Raiders. (Ships that do not show player colors)

I want to just figure out a way to make missiles non-homing and miss if the unit moved out of the way (currently missiles are non-homing and even if they miss, they still do damage which is BS). Maybe a custom missile system will solve that.

Wait aren't those ships a little more ancient than medieval? Still, could work maybe...

Yes, I want to add siege weapons to ship as well as other weapons and garrisoned archers to ships.
Ram and Boarding Party ability works well with ships however idk how to make that ability.
Pretty much all ships are transport ships. Just need to figure out how to carry more than 10... Pirates too? xD

Good feedback mate, thanks.

 

[Jampion]

I want to just figure out a way to make missiles non-homing and miss if the unit moved out of the way (currently missiles are non-homing and even if they miss, they still do damage which is BS). Maybe a custom missile system will solve that.

Missile homing enables only changes the way the missile moves, it does not decide whether it hits. The weapon type artillery allows missiles to miss, if the target moves away from the targeted area. However units with artillery will have the attack ground ability and have area of effect.

 

[UmbraUnda]

Missile homing enables only changes the way the missile moves, it does not decide whether it hits. The weapon type artillery allows missiles to miss, if the target moves away from the targeted area. However units with artillery will have the attack ground ability and have area of effect.

o0o0o0o Awesome. So basically I should change all ranged missile units to artillery type weapon? Hmm - maybe I can change attack ground to just attack... Well, they don't have to have area of effect, right? I can set all the variables for it to 0 and have no splash right, or is there a minimum?

 

[Jampion]

o0o0o0o Awesome. So basically I should change all ranged missile units to artillery type weapon? Hmm - maybe I can change attack ground to just attack... Well, they don't have to have area of effect, right? I can set all the variables for it to 0 and have no splash right, or is there a minimum?

I don't think it's possible to remove the attack ground button. I also think you need the aoe in order for the unit to even be able to damage the target. I assume that artillery means, that the ground is attacked, where the target stands, so setting aoe to 0 would mean it cannot hit anymore.
I would just do it as it is in warcraft: siege weapons have artillery + aoe and archers have missile.
The downside is, that archers would always hit.

 

[UmbraUnda]

I don't think it's possible to remove the attack ground button. I also think you need the aoe in order for the unit to even be able to damage the target. I assume that artillery means, that the ground is attacked, where the target stands, so setting aoe to 0 would mean it cannot hit anymore.
I would just do it as it is in warcraft: siege weapons have artillery + aoe and archers have missile.
The downside is, that archers would always hit.

I saw a custom missile system in spells section. I'm gonna check that out later and see what it offers.

 

[Xonok]

I am not talking about customkeys.txt, but a file, that changes hotkeys for only this map.
You must overwrite Units\CommandStrings.txt" with this file.
I think this is the only way to have custom hotkeys on abilities, you cannot edit in the object editor. I never saw something in the game interface about it.

You can do the same easier by just going into Game Interface. Why import a file when you can literally just change the same fields in editor?

I want to just figure out a way to make missiles non-homing and miss if the unit moved out of the way (currently missiles are non-homing and even if they miss, they still do damage which is BS). Maybe a custom missile system will solve that.

Wait aren't those ships a little more ancient than medieval? Still, could work maybe...

Yes, I want to add siege weapons to ship as well as other weapons and garrisoned archers to ships.
Ram and Boarding Party ability works well with ships however idk how to make that ability.
Pretty much all ships are transport ships. Just need to figure out how to carry more than 10... Pirates too? xD

Good feedback mate, thanks.

Missiles use the Damage Medium Radius. 0 means infinite for this purpose, so by default an attack can not miss. You can also decide how much damage a missed attack deals.
Those fields are used both by normal attacks and splash. The artillery attack type is not necessary.
If that doesn't work, you can use Missile Splash instead of Artillery to prevent the attack ground icon from appearing and so that units wouldn't explode.

 

[Jampion]

You can do the same easier by just going into Game Interface. Why import a file when you can literally just change the same fields in editor?

Can you tell me where I can find it in the Game Interface?

 

[Xonok]

 

[Jampion]

Are you using any kind of special editor?
I can't find it in my Game Interface.
Note: I don't have "F)" either
This is how it looks for me:

 

[Xonok]

Hm, looks like it's a feature of JNGP. I have it with WEU enabled.

 

[UmbraUnda]

You can do the same easier by just going into Game Interface. Why import a file when you can literally just change the same fields in editor?



Missiles use the Damage Medium Radius. 0 means infinite for this purpose, so by default an attack can not miss. You can also decide how much damage a missed attack deals.
Those fields are used both by normal attacks and splash. The artillery attack type is not necessary.
If that doesn't work, you can use Missile Splash instead of Artillery to prevent the attack ground icon from appearing and so that units wouldn't explode.

Is that in combat stats or game constants?

 

[Jampion]

Probably. I also use JNGP, but have WEU usually disabled.

@UmbraUnda It's in Advanced -> Game Interface, but you need WEU enabled for it. It is included in JNGP, so you should already have it. You only need to enable it.

 

[Xonok]

The missile part is in combat stats.

 

[Jampion]

Oh sorry. I though you were talking about that Game Interface stuff.

Yeah missile stuff is in combat.

 

[UmbraUnda]

Name changed to Medieval Realms.

New Beta version in the works with updated assets & new systems. Implemented walkable buildable walls (YAY!), rotatable structures, all buildings sizes are standardized for preliminary building site construction, new construction system requires multiple workers, & garrison system for all structures (+attack for some).

Still need to configure more custom resources, farming system, and other systems such as alliances, trading, etc.

Here are some new revised, resized, and updated buildings - note the standardized sizes.

 

[UmbraUnda]

Just made huge progress with the new triggers. Figured out nearly everything that I was having trouble with after many trial and error attempts. So glad I got it working!

Expect a working BETA version soon (a month or two) with the following new features: Alliance System (ally/unally); BUILD-ABLE, WALK-ABLE walls, ladders, stairs and towers with door system; Construction System (requires multiple workers and worker types) - based off of Building Site System which can rotate, duplicate, and be deleted for easy city planning and customization ( +standardized building sizes to fit well with each building site template - 8 sizes); and if I can also figure out and get working - trading system with carts & ships + custom resources; In addition to Stone and Lumber: Food, Gold, Ore, and Clay will be added + re-purposed.

Stone- Used in advanced building construction and advanced building upgrades. Can be processed into Ore.
Stone is mined from Rocks and Deposits.
Lumber- Used in all building construction and some upgrades. Also used for light armor unit production and armor upgrades.
Lumber is cut from Trees.
Food - Used exclusively for all organic unit production and possible troop rationing.
Food is harvested from farms, berry bushes and hunted animals.
Ore - Used in medium-heavy armor unit production and advanced building construction.
Ore is mined from Deposits and processed from Stone and Clay.
Gold - Used by trade-carts and trade-ships as a merchant currency and is trade-able for other resources at the market.
Gold is mined from Deposits and traded.
Clay- Used in all building construction and building upgrades. Can be processed into Ore.
Clay is mined from Deposits.

 

[Lasersquid112]

Heya! Sorry for not being here for so damned long, I had a lot going on and kinda forgot about the Hive.
I see you've made a helluva lot of progress! Good job man, and keep up the amazing work!