Medieval Realms

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To all those waiting, here's a pastebin to test out my progress.

Medieval Map Demo | HIVE

Players 1-2 are playable for a 1v1 with a friend or solo city builder. Other players not viable yet due to unfinished terrain... It's getting there. Terrain is a bit of an issue due to the lack of unlimited elevation from newgen where I started this map but I'm working around it by finishing the remaining terrain with a bit more of a simplified elevation.

Also, if anybody knows how to use an older wc3 patch to make newgen work please send me a DL link :)
I need newgen to finish my next project which will be a Game of Thrones (aSoIaF) map which will use parts of the resource and combat systems with prebuilt walkable doodad castles.
 
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This reminds me of This.

Did you use it by any chance? Well i guess i was too slow then...was thinking about using it as well xD

Looks really good!
Cant wait for the first version to be playable, Pastebin is not there anymore :/

Im (by far) not among the top notch Guys here on Hive regarding Triggers, but if you need something triggered, just ask and ill see what i can do.
would love to support this project.

greetings
CodeBlack
 
Level 10
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This reminds me of This.

Did you use it by any chance? Well i guess i was too slow then...was thinking about using it as well xD

Looks really good!
Cant wait for the first version to be playable, Pastebin is not there anymore :/

Im (by far) not among the top notch Guys here on Hive regarding Triggers, but if you need something triggered, just ask and ill see what i can do.
would love to support this project.

greetings
CodeBlack
Thanks for the feedback! Yes, Castle Defense's triggers for construction and wall walking are the foundation of my map. Couldn't figure out how to reimplement it on a fresh map so I took the Castle Defense map, made it 480x480 and remade the terrain + more triggers and stuff.
Go for it, the more the merrier! lol

Soon, been ridiculously busy but the terrain keeps making progress - it's very very close to being done.

Thanks, I appreciate the offer to help! I actually do need some help with a few other things listed in the 2nd post (page 1) that would be nice to have for the 1st release (or after) no rush.
Its mainly abilities, need to add fire based projectile abilities for ranged siege and ranged soldiers, charge stun for cavalry, and a couple other abilities like a Bell Alarm from a Bell Tower to trigger units to garrison in buildings.

o0o0o here's another pastebin - should be there another month :).
Medieval Demo 2 | HIVE
 
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I made a quick Testrun and i noticed some stuff. I know its an early version and you maybe noticed a lot of this stuff already, but i know how useful feedback can be....so...here you go:

-First off: Make the Map Foolproof. Now what do i mean by this?
When i started the map for the first time i had to restart after about 3 minutes, because i had used up all my wood without building a lumber mill. I was stuck.
Maybe add the ability to drop off lumber at your main building or sth like that.

-The Map is a bit widespread for my taste...it took me a while to notice that there are like 3 ore deposits right next to each other further down the map...lol (maybe thats just dumb ol me..dunno)

-The techtree/ building order is slightly confusing in the beginning. Maybe its due to the different sized building spots you have to choose from whilst not knowing what wich building does. You get used to it after a while, but its not really good for new players.

-You need to add some quality of life stuff to reduce micro management at some point...it gets tiring after a while. Maybe reduce the amount of seeds and make seeds plant an area instead of one single plant for example.

-Mounting knights doesnt work (and i was a bit disappointed when i learned that i cant just mount all my units to make them a cavalry version xD THAT would be sth i would love too see happening!)
-You should remove the Hitbox from the wheat when planted...it doesnt fulfill any purpose and blocks your workers
-Workers stop Harvesting from time to time for some reason
-Palisade Gate still blocking way when opened

I guess thats it for now...keep up the good work. I like where this is going.

and regarding the trigger stuff: ill look into it once i have some spare time ;)

greetings

CodeBlack
 
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Hey all. I'm still here, just been so busy with work.

Just watched this
... looks like plate mail armor is arrow proof. I'll try to make an ability for this.

Terrain is almost done 75%... bit by bit - almost there! Just need to finish up some mountains, add some forests and the rest of the wild animals.


I made a quick Testrun and i noticed some stuff. I know its an early version and you maybe noticed a lot of this stuff already, but i know how useful feedback can be....so...here you go:

-First off: Make the Map Foolproof. Now what do i mean by this?
When i started the map for the first time i had to restart after about 3 minutes, because i had used up all my wood without building a lumber mill. I was stuck.
Maybe add the ability to drop off lumber at your main building or sth like that.

-The Map is a bit widespread for my taste...it took me a while to notice that there are like 3 ore deposits right next to each other further down the map...lol (maybe thats just dumb ol me..dunno)

-The techtree/ building order is slightly confusing in the beginning. Maybe its due to the different sized building spots you have to choose from whilst not knowing what wich building does. You get used to it after a while, but its not really good for new players.

-You need to add some quality of life stuff to reduce micro management at some point...it gets tiring after a while. Maybe reduce the amount of seeds and make seeds plant an area instead of one single plant for example.

-Mounting knights doesnt work (and i was a bit disappointed when i learned that i cant just mount all my units to make them a cavalry version xD THAT would be sth i would love too see happening!)
-You should remove the Hitbox from the wheat when planted...it doesnt fulfill any purpose and blocks your workers
-Workers stop Harvesting from time to time for some reason
-Palisade Gate still blocking way when opened

I guess thats it for now...keep up the good work. I like where this is going.

and regarding the trigger stuff: ill look into it once i have some spare time ;)

greetings

CodeBlack


Wow late reply.... sorry, forgot to reply to this.
The map is pretty different - tried to make things more realistic... not sure if I enjoy all aspects of it but its unique which I like.
Wood isn't turned into lumber for construction at your Long Hall though... There is a tutorial in quests for now.
Yes the terrain is huge and widespread... feels like a while to cover a mile's distance as it should. Scout around, rocks are usually near mountains and hills.
The techtree/building order does need work... the flow feels a bit uneven and confusing from the 100s of techs to research. Yeah, definitely a learning curve to this map.
Good point, quality of life stuff is good... harvest abilities need better automation and the farming system needs work all over the place.... lol.
Did you try mounting knights on heavy horses ( the upgraded armored one ) ? Yeah, I want to mount peasants and heroes too... soon once I get the triggers figured out.
I can't remove hitbox or you can't right click on it to harvest it... I need to add a custom hitbox so its walkable.
Interesting.. I noticed this.... LAZY PEONS.. lol
Yeah a lot of gates are broken idk why :(
 
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Heya! Sorry for not being on this thread at all recently, I haven't poked around on the Hive in a while. How's stuff coming along?
Its going well. All the Object Editor stuff is in place... damage numbers, items, descriptions etc... triggers are done enough for a beta test map. Terrain just needs to be finished.... might add the custom pathing map after or in the next version.

Hey! Hows everything with you youngster?
 
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Terrain is almost done... Northern half and center island is just about wrapped up. Southern half and then I can finally release this beast of a map.

DJ9QJGn.jpg

NirNb0f.jpg


PS. LF Trigger Editor - Willing to pay $
 
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Made lots of progression this weekend! Put in a lot of work along with the help of @Koltira who helped fix a bunch of bugs and broken triggers. The alpha test map will be even more polished and functional than I anticipated.
I'm more inspired than I've been in many months, going to do my best to have this terrain finished asap sometime in October.
 
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I think you should use a different texture for the grass. It is so dark and dull. The map doesn't really invite people to play it with those visuals. Otherwise great work!
 
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I think you should use a different texture for the grass. It is so dark and dull. The map doesn't really invite people to play it with those visuals. Otherwise great work!
I agree! The grass is awfully pixelated. However I haven't been able to find a substitute that matched the rest of the vanilla textures. If you know of any grass/mountain texture packs please send me a link for some +rep.
 
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Ooo boi, this gon' be great!

I wanted to ask, are you thinking of creating a means of terraforming for the game, at least in the form of creating a moat? or perhaps changing the landscape outlook (changing grass into dirt and vice-versa), or perhaps the ability to plant trees one by one on certain areas?
 
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Ooo boi, this gon' be great!

I wanted to ask, are you thinking of creating a means of terraforming for the game, at least in the form of creating a moat? or perhaps changing the landscape outlook (changing grass into dirt and vice-versa), or perhaps the ability to plant trees one by one on certain areas?
Hey ! Good to hear from you. Yes, it will be great and it's sooooo close to being ready for the alpha.
O0o0o0o, I have thought about it but never implemented it because of lack of knowledge how to do it. If you can give me a quick run down or link a tutorial I'll try to add it for the alpha.
The closest thing I have to that is roads but that's just a flat building that is unit-based. Also if you know how to do speed changes over a terrain type please let me know. :D
 
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I'll make sure to send tutorials here --- Or how the trigger works! I'll edit this post with what I find and what -can- be used, so I'll keep you posted. Expect me to send something over by the end of this month! (With how I'm traveling currently)

Changing Terrain In-Game? This is how the terrain is changed in an area; should be easy to do.
Terrain Height Trigger - This is where I found some stuff about lowering terrain through triggers. I know it's possible since it exists in Sandbox Roleplay maps.

Making it smooth is perhaps the hardest part since I can't find anything regarding it. Overall - A moat is possible to make in this sense - just make roads upgradeable to a moat which lowers the terrain and makes a water model unit (it should slow units down closer to the walls for example)

Anyways, Sorry for the delay I was very busy with some stuff and this slipped my mind at some point
 
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I can say - too much sand. This could be fixed by making some areas cliff-like such as reefs and the like. You don't find sand everywhere, as some beaches are, in fact, the rocky kind. More variations via cliffs would make-due to the terrain ^^

Edit: I'll leave a slight picture as a reference in a bit
3 Minute Example:
nGFo5LG.png


Meanwhile...

My personal thought on the terrain is that there is generally too much symmetry in the map. I understand you wanted to give every player a fair and balanced starting point, but for some reason, it limits how much you can do in general. It just becomes slightly 'bland' and repetitive. Not many will find use in making many sea-faring vessels for majestic sea-born battles this way; which is why I'd like to offer a hand - or at least suggest a friend of mine who's a superb terrain to help you out ^^ @Saken

Secondly, to mitigate the idea of "everyone gets a fair start" you can use the Castle Builder / Village Builder approach - start in the center / have an instant moving wisp with which you create the first building in any desired zone. This would allow you to create varied terrains with varying levels of resources and different zone depth. In a way - it allows you to be more creative. You could make your base really close to someone, or on the other side of the world! and little islands could be places of battle for resources (hence sea battles would occur?)

Anyways - that's just my opinion and some of my thoughts; take them as you will ^^
 
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I can say - too much sand. This could be fixed by making some areas cliff-like such as reefs and the like. You don't find sand everywhere, as some beaches are, in fact, the rocky kind. More variations via cliffs would make-due to the terrain ^^

Edit: I'll leave a slight picture as a reference in a bit
3 Minute Example:
nGFo5LG.png


Meanwhile...

My personal thought on the terrain is that there is generally too much symmetry in the map. I understand you wanted to give every player a fair and balanced starting point, but for some reason, it limits how much you can do in general. It just becomes slightly 'bland' and repetitive. Not many will find use in making many sea-faring vessels for majestic sea-born battles this way; which is why I'd like to offer a hand - or at least suggest a friend of mine who's a superb terrain to help you out ^^ @Saken

Secondly, to mitigate the idea of "everyone gets a fair start" you can use the Castle Builder / Village Builder approach - start in the center / have an instant moving wisp with which you create the first building in any desired zone. This would allow you to create varied terrains with varying levels of resources and different zone depth. In a way - it allows you to be more creative. You could make your base really close to someone, or on the other side of the world! and little islands could be places of battle for resources (hence sea battles would occur?)

Anyways - that's just my opinion and some of my thoughts; take them as you will ^^
Great feedback! The cliffs are a nice touch. I guess I should find some reference landscape photos or something.
It's a wc3 style melee map thus the symmetry. I know what you mean... my plan is to do multiple maps and have them all use the same base mechanics. I want to do Black Forest, Northern Fjord, Islands, Nomad etc.
If your friend is good I can pay $$$ via paypal @Saken
Maybe... idk though, I'd prefer something closer to Age of Empires II where it is standardized but random at the same time... idk how to do that though.
Also idk how I feel about a wisp exploring the map at the start, reveals too much. I'll give it more thought... maybe a Nomad villager start could work.
Thanks for all the replies :)
 
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Some new terrain reference... Austrian landscapes. Good mix of forest, mountain and rivers...
Ughhh I'm gonna have to redo a lot but the end result may be well worth it.... Or maybe I'll go all out for the next map... hmmm.
For now I'll add cliffs along the coast and foliage to the mountains.
5400657-mountain-forest-river-valley-tree-grass-green-blue-cloudy-sunlight-shadow-landscape-nature-austria-outdoor-hiking-alpine-alp-northern-land-creative-commons-images.jpg

ccOxdYN.jpg

austria-mountain-mountains-blindsee-autumn-fall-marienbergspitze-sonnenspitz-zugspitze-lermoos-larch-trees-forest-landscape-X3RTEN.jpg

2837528-lake-forest-green-mountain-water-summer-grass-cliff-clouds-austria-nature-landscape___landscape-nature-wallpapers.jpg

forest-nature-landscape-austria-wallpaper.jpg
 
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Medieval Realms Help | HIVE
HELP! DOWNLOAD MY MAP AND SEE IF IT WORKS!

Need help... 1.31 might have broken my construction trigger. Luckily I didn't update my client but one of my editors, @Koltira did update and is reporting this to me.... Possibly RIP.

Ayyyyyy yai yai blizzard.... hope they fix this soon or I find a work around. If you know any trigger editors available for work I can pay $ through paypal.

Willing to do $100-300 depending on the amount of work.

jNq19Q5.jpg
 
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Going to give it a test - will post what I find here:

Okay - so from what I've tested, the construction trigger has not been destroyed. I made a tiny plot and started constructing a farm that requires two workers to start construction.
The origin of the construction system still works, so you needn't worry too much on that end.

Meanwhile, updating from an old world-editor tends to break the map; though only if you were using Jass New Gen or World Editor Unlimited. In the case that you've made your maps using said world editor, don't use the new one or you can expect the map to break upon saving.

If you update it in the new world editor, the thing you will need to look towards is variables - as there has been a report where variable updates in the new version tend to break the map, so that's where I'm going to put emphasis on focus.

MEANWHILE:

Slight adjustments for now that you could do:
-Make drummer slower, he's faster than a scout
-Change the voice of the cow, sounds like a ship
-Belltower needs peasants to ring a bell (Did you mean worker or something else?)
 
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Going to give it a test - will post what I find here:

Okay - so from what I've tested, the construction trigger has not been destroyed. I made a tiny plot and started constructing a farm that requires two workers to start construction.
The origin of the construction system still works, so you needn't worry too much on that end.

Meanwhile, updating from an old world-editor tends to break the map; though only if you were using Jass New Gen or World Editor Unlimited. In the case that you've made your maps using said world editor, don't use the new one or you can expect the map to break upon saving.

If you update it in the new world editor, the thing you will need to look towards is variables - as there has been a report where variable updates in the new version tend to break the map, so that's where I'm going to put emphasis on focus.

MEANWHILE:

Slight adjustments for now that you could do:
-Make drummer slower, he's faster than a scout
-Change the voice of the cow, sounds like a ship
-Belltower needs peasants to ring a bell (Did you mean worker or something else?)
Thank the wc3 spirits! It still works, phew. So until it's done, I won't update to 1.31.
Will do, guess I missed a few object editor data fields lol.
Well, the Belltower's ability to ring the bell and cause all surrounding workers to garrison is broken as well as the garrison ability being unfinished.
Having some workers ringing the bell would be interesting tho...
Thanks again for the feedback!!! Huge sigh of relief that it still works.
 
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Thank the wc3 spirits! It still works, phew. So until it's done, I won't update to 1.31.
Will do, guess I missed a few object editor data fields lol.
Well, the Belltower's ability to ring the bell and cause all surrounding workers to garrison is broken as well as the garrison ability being unfinished.
Having some workers ringing the bell would be interesting tho...
Thanks again for the feedback!!! Huge sigh of relief that it still works.

Honestly, an easy way to have that belltower work is to make it through Mountain Giant taunt that works on allies, or a roar ability. The sound of the bell would work through triggers - automatically forcing workers to move to shelter / the house they were built from. This is my take on how it could work!
 
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Honestly, an easy way to have that belltower work is to make it through Mountain Giant taunt that works on allies, or a roar ability. The sound of the bell would work through triggers - automatically forcing workers to move to shelter / the house they were built from. This is my take on how it could work!
Interesting approach, taunt could definitely work well... Need a garrison ability as well - combine that with the borrow or cargo ability and it should be good.
 
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Hey there!

Great work over here. Far deeper than what I'm used to do personally. Gratz on that!

I'd like to see a video of the few starting minutes, I could start the map by myself and try it out but I figured out a lot of people would prefer to just click a Youtube thumbnail.

Here's a quick feedback:

Map Symmetry
I have the same level design constraints than you for my map 'Avenheart'.

Oddly enough (or not) we seem to have settled on the same solutions: a circular map and different maps (melee-style). I have even drawn a overview of a typical level design:
avenheart-map-layout-png.351705

Seems familiar, doesn't it?

As @Xeryxoz mentioned, the symmetry is making the map kind of "bland".

One of the solution I implemented is to split the map in four parts, giving each a theme:
unknown.png


Of course, balance should not be broken and each quarter uses the same "division pattern", which do not necessarily all appear on this screenshot.
Rivers are specifically unbalanced and that's my challenge right now (but I don't think it's a problem for your map).

I have the feeling that balance is the most important long-term but visual appeal is the most important short-term and imho, shouldn't be disregarded.

In addition to quarters, I'm adding variations in the "division pattern" - as you can see in the desert, alternating between straight division, and two-chokes divisions.
But once more, this should be balanced. These two division patterns are therefore used all around the map in an even way for each player (each of them has one of these division pattern on its left or right).

This "even alternating division pattern" logic can be applied everywhere else on the map and allow us to create fake "differences" in the symmetry of the map.
Combined with the quarter division and you end up with a Grove, a Swamp and a Rock Waste serving as "boarders" of your different areas (but being the same thing fundamentally).

It's not the solution, it's just a solution.

To give you an example about your map: you have gigantic rivers flowing from the middle. Some of them could be impassable mountains and others forests (or not if you want ships to go through).


Slow Pace
This is one of my main concern about my map: I want games to last for about ~40 minutes but I still want it to inspire that "epic strategy" map feeling. It might seems contradictory but I think it's feasible.

When it comes to pace, here's how you can monitor it:
(I don't know how teching works in your game, but I'm going to assume there's some kind of age-technology, if not, translate the mechanic to your map)
Decide of arbitrary times at which you'd like your players to reach the different "ages" of your game. IE: I want players to reach second age at minute 4, then 10, then 20 etc.

Then see how much it costs to reach these ages (tech cost but also required structure costs and any other related costs), then how much resources they should have at the different stages of the game (you will have to check out how much income / resource they generate). You can also add up building/researching times (and how much of it can be built/researched at once).

See if numbers match, if not, tweak the income / time / cost numbers to match your needs.

It's not only about teching, it can also be about armies. How much resources does it cost to raise a 50 food army? How much time? Then once more, you can tweak the numbers (training time, resource costs etc.).


Complex Structure System
Of course I should be playing the map to see by myself. But I just wanted to point out the fact that tutorialization might be the key.
Maybe you can try to force the player at taking some actions at the beginning of the game which will forcefully teach him how to build.
One of the example of this would be: force the player to build his altar / train his hero before being able to do anything else (other structures require the altar, or the selection system forces the player to select a builder, or anything else).
The hero is just an example here, in your case it could be "building a farm". It shouldn't be something that gets in the way of more advanced players though.

In any case, there's always a fight between the complexity to learn a system VS the strategy/tactical depth this system adds in the game.

If you realize your system doesn't add much depth but adds a lot of complexity, it should likely be lighten up.



Keep up the good work!

PS: I really like the reference pictures you chose for your terrain :)
 
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Hey! Thanks for the in depth feedback, really appreciate it!
Great suggestion, a short tutorial video would be useful.

Indeed, this is just one map idea. The end result will be many map styles to choose from with the same base systems.
I like the idea of having some pre-placed towns, could speed things up and mix it up with hostile units.
Yeah, one map with quadrants will definitely be fun especially mixing up the terrain types from snowy mountains to forest to the sea with some desert/tropics would look spectacular. Good ideas.

For real, mine too. That's a good way to plan gameplay pacing - setting goals and adjusting it around that.

Yeah, tutorial for construction is the biggest thing. I did online testing and it seems the construction stumped all my testers and I had to explain it all step by step and then repeat myself... lol.
Plus the multiboard showing worker requirements is broken as it was not intended for multiplayer. I'm thinking about disabling it for now and making it more age of empires ii style of building for faster gameplay.
Interesting concept … hmm. Not sure if I like waiting on the altar and hero but having a tutorial hold your hand while building 2 houses, granary and a lumber mill to start up your economy while teaching you basics would be great.
The farm is built later after the berry bushes run out. Right, just an optional tutorial to help you along if you need it - skippable.
Just need to figure out how to do all of that... xD Send me a tutorial or if you know a trigger editor I'll pay $.

Thanks again, hope I see you in a test lobby soon!
 
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Hey! Thanks for the in depth feedback, really appreciate it!
With pleasure! :)

Great suggestion, a short tutorial video would be useful.
I meant just a small gameplay showcase video. But eh, if it can also be a tutorial, it's all-in-one!

I like the idea of having some pre-placed towns, could speed things up and mix it up with hostile units.
[...] For real, mine too. That's a good way to plan gameplay pacing - setting goals and adjusting it around that.
In your map you seem to have "points of interests" laid out exactly like the towns in my map.
I didn't mean you should have town, but if you think it can be cool for your map then OKAY!

Not sure if I like waiting on the altar and hero but having a tutorial hold your hand while building 2 houses, granary and a lumber mill to start up your economy while teaching you basics would be great.
[...] The farm is built later after the berry bushes run out. Right, just an optional tutorial to help you along if you need it - skippable.
The altar and farm things were just examples. I don't know how it could turn out in your map.
Maybe a simple "map message" combined with a checkbox and a forced selection system could do the trick.

Thanks again, hope I see you in a test lobby soon!
Hehe, I'll make sure to check out if I'm available on the next playtest :)
 
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Medieval Realms v0.2
V0.2 is out!
Update changelog:
Edited construction requirements so that just 1 worker can build most structures without having to worry about how many are required. Advanced structures need just 1 worker and 1 architect. Should help ease some confusion with the construction system.
Revamped the Lancer line up. Weapon properly attached to right hand instead of left resulting in weird animations. Lancer (2) now a 15 ft long pike for some serious melee reach. Lancer (3+) loses range in favor of a Halberd/Warhammer for multiple attack types.
Updated armor attachments to be more uniform as units upgrade from 1 -> 5. Touched up some units with missing attachments.
I'll record a video tutorial for the first 10ish minutes soon to help noobs along.

Did some testing online and it seems construction system display is broken... it wasn't initially deigned for multiplayer. Any trigger editors out there?

Need a missile system. Is there something that lets arrows miss like a true arrow?
 
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0.3 changelog
Sheep now rescuable
Techtree requirements updated
Buildings' construction time reduced
Architect removed, construction made simpler requiring only 1 Worker to build anything now
Worker (F), Villager and Noble removed
1 Small Gold node added to starter mineral pit
Terrain FINISHED
Building Site pathing maps updated to properly display green square.
Player properties updated: North/South players are now allied with each other for 4v4 (North vs South)

To Do
Fix Harvest System bug
Add pathing blockers to mountains
Add more Nuetral Hostile creeps for Heroes
Create Campaigns like Agincourt
Add more map types: Black Forest, Islands, etc.
 
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Messed around with this a bit yesterday. Seems like a fun and interesting map if you like a much more extensive tech tree within Humans and much more time and effort spent building your economy than Wc3 offers. For me personally tech and econ options feels more like a necessary evil that should be streamlined so it's not my kind of map, but that's a matter of individual taste of course.

Two things that bothered me:
1) Having to figure out on my own that once i choose a building to upgrade into, a worker has to do that work, it doesn't happen by itself.
2) Workers appearing as idle while doing the aforementioned upgrades.

if you're still working on this, and you need help with the regrowing/regreening stuff (i saw tooltips saying this doesnt work yet) you can do it with set point and Create Destructible, remove point.
 
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