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[Altered Melee] Medieval Strategy Overhaul

Discussion in 'Map Development' started by UmbraUnda, Dec 30, 2016.

  1. UmbraUnda

    UmbraUnda

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    [​IMG]

    DOWNLOAD HERE -> MedievalStrategyOverhaul_v0.2a

    Warcraft: Medieval Strategy Overhaul is a new custom melee map that I'm developing. This project is an overhaul of Warcraft for the best experience in Medieval Real Time Strategy. It combines aspects of Warcraft 3, Stronghold and Age of Empires plus adds many new things - camera zoom system, combat system, upgrade system for all units and buildings, custom pathing for custom buildings, castle system with build-able walk-able walls & rotatable buildings, realistic environments that affect unit stats depending on the terrain + more rivers & bigger maps with miles between players and plenty of room for building castles, updated hero system, custom resources, farming system, and a crafting system for food and gear.

    Some of these features have yet to be implemented into my Beta Map that will soon be ready for testing. I don't know how to make them work even though they appear in other Hive systems (many authors are M.I.A. or don't answer my questions) because I lack triggering experience and some of them are quite complex. (Example, rotatable buildings and buildable walkable walls are in @MassiveMaster 's Castle Defense map.) As this project progresses hopefully someone can help or teach me.

    Here's a mechanics overview and all my art assets.

    [​IMG]

    (Feel free to ZOOM IN, images are high res)

    [​IMG]

    Sorry about the different image scaling confusing unit size.
    The Light Cavalry needs to be reanimated and Villager Female needs attachments.
    Also, the front view angle isn't the best for showing off unit attachments,
    I'll post more pictures of units later + list of all unit types.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Again, sorry about the scaling confusion.
    The Fortress needs to be redone so it has upgrades.

    [​IMG]

    Sneak peak of an early play through...

    CHANGELOG

    0.2a - Implemented

    Added Quests - Tutorial, Camera & Credits
    Fixed missing icons
    Building size reduced by 10-20%
    Custom Pathing for Buildings
    Additional tech requirements
    Shortened file name (Now appears in game list)
    Added descriptions to Attack and Armor types (% vs armor types, % vs attack types)\
    Locked Player Settings (Always Human)
    Added more stone throughout map
    Walls slightly more expensive
    Hawk & Falcon sight range increased
    Updated Cavalry Icons
    Implemented Markmanship Upgrade (train at Archery Target)
    Implemented Canine Training and Animal Husbandry (Train at Barn)
    Implemented unused abilities that had required upgrades (Smoke Bomb, Piercing Ballista, Burning Oil - Explosive Barrel)
    Fixed Market and Cathedrals shop abilities - Items now buyable (Item Abilities still need work)
    Paths can now be built upon
    Updated Stone Gathering Trigger - Some loopholes fixed + Return Resources ability for stone.
    Updated Item Abilities + Added New Items
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
  2. dell

    dell

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    look cool men :) :) :)
     
  3. Good topic; Warcraft engine is wonderful and I doubt the vanilla implementation delivers the best RTS experience.
     
  4. UmbraUnda

    UmbraUnda

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    Thanks. Looking to start beta testing soon - maybe in a week or so. Let me know if you're interested.
     
  5. Grimhollow

    Grimhollow

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    Good to see there will be a nostalgic experience of Age of Empires
     
  6. Naze

    Naze

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    Very interesting project dude. I'll keep an eye on it.
     
  7. SNIper of DARKness

    SNIper of DARKness

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    May I ask where have you got the Right handed shields from? The bucklers that are, I can only get them in left handed form, may you please show me where you've gotten them from?
     
  8. UmbraUnda

    UmbraUnda

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    Thanks mate - hope you can help test soon.

    Yeah. Well, the ones I downloaded came as left handed, so I edited them on mdlvis to be right handed. If you want, I can send you the files.
     
  9. SNIper of DARKness

    SNIper of DARKness

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    Yes, thank you.

    By the way the attachments are a little wrong on the Light Cavalry, the weapon is supposed to go on the right hand and the shield on the left. That model also has a few problems with attachments and lot of clipping involved.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2017
  10. Xonok

    Xonok

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    I'm doing a somewhat similar project. How much do you understand about mathematics?
    In default WC3, armor and evasion are just health(and healing) increases. They don't really add any interesting mechanics in that way.
    Instead, for armor I use flat damage reduction. Look at the Hardened Skin ability for this.
    I also plan to trigger a version of evasion that can entirely block an attack, but will never work again as long as someone keeps hitting you. That makes it necessary to actually avoid damage and stay mobile, which fits well with what evasion is supposed to be.
     
  11. UmbraUnda

    UmbraUnda

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    Alright, gonna send you a PM with a link to the files.

    Glad you noticed. I know, the model I'm using needs to be reanimated along with a couple others.

    Oh cool. Hope we can trade helpful info. Enough I suppose...
    Not sure if I agree with you there. I think wc3 mechanics are fine + more than most games... Still, more is better.
    That's nice - not sure if that'll work for my project with armor - specifically - the damage/armor type bonus/reduction. Maybe the evasion could work though.
    Good, I was thinking about doing something similar with units that have a shield. Also wanna do a unit veteran system later on.

    Are you good with triggers? I need help importing a few triggers from other projects. Your system's look good - I might implement them to my project if its ok with you + credits
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2017
  12. Xonok

    Xonok

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    I'm not saying that WC3 mechanics are bad in general, but rather that it's important to understand their point. Armor and evasion were intended to be essentially just health increases against everything except magic. Thus, magic would gain relevance over time as players get upgrades. This was so that heroes would remain relevant as unit amounts increase.
    Using it for an RTS like this isn't supported very well though. What exactly does it give you strategically? What goes into the decision of whether to get armor or health? They're the same thing in default WC3! So unless you have magic damage the system just doesn't have a point.
    Flat damage reduction, however, is very interesting. Just by manipulating the damage and armor amounts of units you can create chains of counters.
    E.g, archers beat hordes of unarmored units due to range. Armored units, however, can close the gap. But armored units are more expensive and end up losing to the sheer numbers of unarmored units. Voila, a chain of counters.

    Each race in my project has 2 differences compared to humans - how their stats are allocated and what passive they have. Humans have average stats and their passive is that units gain XP. XP makes units take less and deal more damage, both of them after armor so it wouldn't affect counters too much. I guess this is what you mean by veteran system.
    For instance, Undead have less health, but more armor. Their passive is 50% lifesteal. Naturally lifesteal is strong, but in reality undead don't like large fights, because their units get focused down before they get to use their passive. The health and armor balance is set so that they don't actually gain survivability from having high armor, unless lifesteal is counted it. It's essentially like an amplifier for healing.

    I am pretty good with triggers. I've coded dozens of custom spells over time. However, I don't really code other people's maps because it makes them too reliant on me.
    Yeah, you can use my systems if you want. That's why I uploaded them. They're not really the best though, as my coding wasn't as good back then as it is now.
     
  13. UmbraUnda

    UmbraUnda

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    Ok. How so? Armor and evasion don't increase health - armor is % reduction and armor type determines what those %'s are. Default evasion is also a % to miss and % of damage taken if the unit is moving.

    Wc3 mechanics help with many things - one being - gives me a nice system for different armor types receiving proportional amounts of damage and allows a strong polearm vs cavalry bonus by making cavalry an armor type. That system is key to strategic counters for all units. Armor and health are determined by what type of armor and type of soldier along with other stats like movement speed. Not sure if I agree with you... I plan to not have magic damage - need to trigger abilities to cause the standard types of damage in my map - Stab, Smash, Slice or Strike. Maybe I'm missing your point - if I knew how to trigger I'd add more complex mechanics too but I feel wc3 does a good enough job for a classic game and my simple project which can later be expanded.

    Flat damage reduction? Maybe in other maps - pointless for my system because that would unbalance having multiple armor and damage types with fixed % rates. Lol - I guess that's a chain of counters but that would still work with the default wc3 mechanics. Also don't forget about other factors like movement speed, stealth abilities, and siege weapons with fire bombs. I agree that adding more triggers and custom abilities adds more depth to the mechanics but I disagree that the default is pointless and as limited as you claim, especially about the armor, evasion and hp- those are all separate mechanics- they are not just health, they influence and variate health and damage.

    Interesting - Medieval with fantasy races? Nice, that is quite similar to my veteran system. Lol undead should have less health and less armor - those bones are brittle and decomposing. Cool passives though. It'll be tough to balance but the change in gameplay and build-types for each race should mix it up for a fun game.

    Cool. Wish I had more experience in triggers. Aw man - well if you don't help others - can you teach others? I just wanna figure out how to implement a trigger from another map into my map. Copying and pasting works but its always half broken and needs adjusting... I'm just not experienced enough to re-adjust it for my map. Good- I'll definitely consider using your commander and group control systems. Maybe you should update the old systems for your new coding skills then?
     
  14. Xonok

    Xonok

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    Armor and evasion are effectively the same as health increases in percentages. They don't affect balance in any interesting way. It's quite easy to calculate the gain that they give. By default each point of armor increases effective health by 6% of base amount. For evasion it's a little bit more complicated to calculate.
    Again, there is no effect that armor increases can give you that health increases can't, unless you have spell damage, because spell damage ignores armor.
    About flat damage reduction, I have had no such problem. In fact I don't need to use the usual armor types at all, although if I wanted I could make them work after flat reduction, for instance. That way both systems would contribute without unbalancing the game.
    The chain of counters that I outlined would work, but some others related to it wouldn't. In default WC3 there is no way to do a unit that is better at piercing armor, because that would really just mean a damage increase against every unit. Sure you could configure the armor types, but this is still limiting.

    For me undead having more armor kinda makes sense. They don't have to care so much about their health, because they're already dead, so they can carry ridiculously heavy armors without worrying about the consequences.
    Actually, the balancing has so far been really easy. The key here is that I can balance every passive separately because only one race has each passive. The stat differences are also balanced perfectly because the way I balance passives is that each passive is equally useful. Basically I've split the balancing into parts that are easy on their own.

    I can give advice, yes.
     
  15. Nordmar

    Nordmar

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    i want to be a beta tester! :) the project looks very promising
     
  16. UmbraUnda

    UmbraUnda

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    I'm not even gonna argue with you but I still disagree.

    lol, wtf. Undead don't even have the muscles left to carry anything... Guess I'm being too realistic - undead don't even make realistic sense.

    I need to figure out how to implement triggers from @MassiveMaster 's Castle Defense map found here. There are triggers for rotating built structures and building walkable walls. I can copy and paste the triggers into my map put it's too complex to figure out how to adjust them to work for my map. Can you explain a method to me or download the map yourself and tell me what I need to adjust so it works for my map?

    Alright! Sure thing, glad to have you as a tester. Thanks, hope this becomes the best medieval RTS experience for wc3.
     
  17. WhiteFang

    WhiteFang

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    Interesting.I will be watching.I may help testing,if I have free time
     
  18. TheFrenchLeprechaun

    TheFrenchLeprechaun

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    It sounds ambitious and epic! I like it!

    I've seen you're using a trebuchet model. I've made a request some times ago to add wheels to this model, are you interested?
     
  19. UmbraUnda

    UmbraUnda

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    Awesome. Thanks

    Thanks mate. It's far from being done but its almost in a testable state for combat with basic features for now.

    Actually I'm using two. The one under the big trebuchet I think you're talking about folds up into a cart (alternate form) - that one is the main trebuchet. That big one that I think you're talking about on the top - that's the trebuchet warwolf - and historically those didn't have wheels so I'm not really interested in doing it. Also wouldn't do it because I probably can't animate the wheels although copying and pasting on wheels off another model would be pretty easy for anyone to do.
     
  20. TheFrenchLeprechaun

    TheFrenchLeprechaun

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    Yes, I was talking about the big one :)! Didn't know historically for the wheels... But, just in case, the wheels of the model are animated.

    EDIT : I wasn't asking for the request, I was offering to share what someone did for one of my request ^^

    Just forgot one thing : I'm in for testing!
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2017