Zephyr Challenge #6

[HINDYhat]

... the site is also preventing people from submitting terrible resources to the database by rejecting them. I have nothing wrong with people submitting GUI spells. GUI is just bad.

 

[redscores]

I give a crap on that, aslong as people want to submit GUI spells for contest, they should be allowed to, and they should be adequate rated.

 

[HINDYhat]

This conversation is obviously going nowhere, so I guess we'll just have to wait and see what the judges decide.

 

[Vosty]

Hvo- already said they are judged as Jass spells, but GUI is allowed.
At least I think he did =D
Everyone stop fighting and group hug now.

 

[Deaod]

GUI resources WILL be adequately rated. Only that they will be compared to JASS and vJass solutions. So if you want to use GUI, go ahead. You wont be disqualified or anything, only your spells will be judged as what they really are (bad JASS code).

Because you are a small-minded elitist, sorry to say HINDYhat, but you're acting anti-social, if this site would follow the "social" headline you would be banned forever, I would do it.

And? that is not your beer.... the only thing that counts is that you want to prevent people's free will to create GUI spells for contests, and thats anti-social.

I give a crap on that, aslong as people want to submit GUI spells for contest, they should be allowed to, and they should be adequate rated.

Lets see, we got personal attacks, misinterpretations of what has been said, and wrong statements.
Conclusion: Eject yourself from this thread. Now. Or get your "facts" right before entering a discussion.

 

[Vosty]

^^
Finally Sense!!!
When is deadline? (Or is it on main page now...)

 

[Palaslayer]

deaod. you're really a square...

and hindy as well. it's all about acting right or wrong. in your case it is acting ignorant and small-minded. anyway, i won't be able to change your mind and others as well so be it as it is.

and the argument that it's not bad for gui users because they can still participate and are not exclide is complete nonsense.
should they celebrate the fact that they get discriminated against by you?

just do what you want but think about whether it is the best decision for EVERYONE not for jassers only.
~pala

 

[Deaod]

and the argument that it's not bad for gui users because they can still participate and are not exclide is complete nonsense.
should they celebrate the fact that they get discriminated against by you?

Right. If you ask me, GUI should be nuked. Fortunately for you, im not the one in charge. Giving GUI users automatically less points simply because they use GUI would be discriminating. Evening the field of play for every submission by converting GUI to JASS is not discriminating.

Of course its not the best decision for GUIers. I know that. But GUI is something that must be done away with (in my opinion, at least). Discouraging its use by judging it according to its efficiency is a step into the right direction.

And no, im not contradicting myself. I think that GUI was favoured in previous contests since it was judged as a completely different language that has absolutely nothing to do with JASS. That however is a misconception. GUI can be converted to JASS with about 3 clicks. And using GUI is just a convenient way of writing JASS.

 

[Palaslayer]

it is indeed. i would like to see seperate contests rather than seeing gui being downrated in contests as well. but it is the moderators decision how to handle all this.

 

[Roflcoptor]

GUI can be converted to JASS with about 3 clicks.

2 ;P

Back to topic: I don't really care, if GUI submissions are rated as an own language or if they are converted to jass.

But what I'd definatley dislike would be the fact, that GUI-users are given the right to participate and somehow the promise of at least having a chance to win.

Obviously, this won't be possible, except all Jassers are too uncreative and to bad.

It is just like allowing a man in a wheelchair to race a race against the athletic world champion and say: "Well if you run more creative you might have a chance. But still you are slower, so well you suck"

Instead say: "This is an unfair battle and thus you (the man in the wheelchair) are not allowed to participate. We do this to prevent the rising of unfullfillable wishes and hope."

Well this is only ma humble opinion, you might not want to agree with me and might not be the best comparison, but I hope I could state my point clearer with this.

Yours sincerely, Roflcoptor

EDIT: Agree with you pala, in the end it is jsut in the hands fo the mod(s)

 

[Deaod]

It is just like allowing a man in a wheelchair to race a race against the athletic world champion and say: "Well if you run more creative you might have a chance. But still you are slower, so well you suck"

I suppose the man in the wheelchair cannot run faster by spending a few hours learning how to (a new technique, not training his muscles). Well, GUI users can. So its your own damn fault for being lazy and using an inferior approach.

Obviously, this won't be possible, except all Jassers are too uncreative and to bad.

So GUI users DO have a chance. But youre also implying that not all JASS submissions will be both uncreative and badly coded. Bad coding can be fixed by learning (v)JASS. Not being creative cant be fixed for either contestant.

 

[Roflcoptor]

Deaod seriously, you are so stupid i begin to ask myself "wtf"

So GUI users should learn Jass. Then there is no need to allow GUI, since we assume that all GUI users follow your advice and learn jass.

 

[HINDYhat]

Then there is no need to allow GUI, since we assume that all GUI users follow your advice and learn jass.

I would jizz my pants.

and hindy as well. it's all about acting right or wrong. in your case it is acting ignorant and small-minded.

Do you have a sort of disability that prevents you from learning Jass? I mean, if you're spending time on Wc3 already, surely you have enough time to learn Jass. It's a fact that it's better than GUI. They aren't even comparable. So I'm the ignorant and 'small-minded' one for thinking that GUI is terrible, when you don't even want to try and learn Jass?

As if GUIers stood a chance in the Zephyr contests anyway, even with the old judging.

 

[Palaslayer]

Do you have a sort of disability that prevents you from learning Jass? I mean, if you're spending time on Wc3 already, surely you have enough time to learn Jass. It's a fact that it's better than GUI. They aren't even comparable. So I'm the ignorant and 'small-minded' one for thinking that GUI is terrible, when you don't even want to try and learn Jass?

As if GUIers stood a chance in the Zephyr contests anyway, even with the old judging.

you didnt understand. you are socially 'small-minded'. that's what i meant.

and no, i do not have time to spent on jass...

 

[Vosty]

Print a tut off, and carry it with you somewhere to read, if you don't got time.
I DARE you! (Triple-dog-donut dare you!)
I even tested myself, (As long as your typing speed is 30wpm and have minor speeling errors)) I can write the same code in Jass in 45 seconds, which it took 4 minutes in GUI (stupid dialog boxes).
You will save up to 10 hours in your future, if you learn it, so it will make up for 10 hours of learning jass.

BUT: Even if you don't learn it, I understand. I was hesitant at first too. Just try a tut once

 

[Karawasa]

Wait so this is a coding challenge? You wouldn't know based on the absolutely hilarious vJASS versus GUI conversation that has been going on. There is nothing to discuss, the GUI should be converted to JASS and graded as such. This is a coding challenge right?

I also find it ironic that the people pretending to be the victims are the ones lashing out. Add to that the fact that they are completely wrong and you've got something laughable at best.

How many fucking times do people have to repeat this, GUI is just shitty JASS for people too lazy or too afraid to look at text.

 

[Asomath]

Well, these last few pages, what I’d call “Thread Warfare”, have given me an idea I’ll register for later. Next time I make a zephyr challenge, a few months after this one is completed, I’ll make two. They would share the same theme, and the same set of rules. They would be a GUI Tier, and a JASS Tier. GUI Triggered spells could only be submitted in the GUI Tier and JASS Spells could only be submitted in the JASS Tier. If a GUI Triggerer REALLY wanted to compete in the JASS Tier, he could convert his spells. However only ONE of the tiers can be entered by a person.

In the GUI Tier, the reward would be lower (So if it the reward was 30, 20, 10 in the JASS Contest, it may be 15, 10, 5 in the GUI Contest) since GUI, to some is slightly easy to maneuver. In trade for the JASS having a higher reward, although it would have the same theme, the style in which the spell must be created to that theme would be slightly more difficult, as JASS contains quiet a bit more possibilities.

Well, that was just a brief thought. Anyway, I hope the thread warfare can reach an armistice, as it’s pretty useless. Thanks guys!

~Asomath

 

[Dreadnought[dA]]

GUI is like Paint, and JASS is like Photoshop. Those who use inferior tools will lose. This is a stupid argument that has been hashed a million times.

Converting all GUI to JASS then comparing then judging is the best solution. It's perfectly fair!

 

[busterkomo]

Not at all. Using Paint can look as good as Photoshop, but GUI will never be as good as JASS. But yeah, creating anything worthwhile in Paint is lame. Oh, and would you guys leave the GUI vs JASS debate out of this thread?

 

[Justicar]

All I can say is, I'd like to see someone show me up with their jass spell, GUI all the way! Count me in when it's hosted. xD

 

[Vosty]

Yeah.
I know about 100 threads that fight like this.
When does contest end?

 

[redscores]

if the jass elitist jerks stop complaining and whining.

 

[HINDYhat]

[...] the jass elitist jerks [...]

I'm flattered.

 

[PurplePoot]

A special olympics argument is stupid as not only is it inaccurate (as Deaod pointed out), but it's as if you're saying to the wheelchair guy "go compete in the olympic race" and then telling everyone else to slow down to give the poor guy a chance (and this is not a guy who has broken legs or anything; this is just a guy who was too lazy to learn to walk/run). This is why we are not so fond of continuing to give an advantage to the wheelchair guy; he's fine to compete if he wants but he'll have to cope wth his voluntary handicap.

Anyhow, while I like Deaod's idea, Asomath's has as much if not more merit and should cut out the whining entirely. From this point on any posts in the GUI/JASS debate will be deleted, or maybe I'll just merge the entire thing with the everlasting one in Warcraft Discussion or wherever it is.

 

[Vosty]

That thread would die in hmmm....
2020?

 

[Deuterium]

If a submission does not follow the spell submission rules the creator will be disqualified.

Yet almost all of the other stated rules doesn't follow with the spell submission rules

Can the spawning of the unit be conditional? Like:

2. Reanimate (Turns corpses into summoned units around the caster)

I mean I have an idea in mind, but there are certain conditions for spawning to occur.

Oh, and COUNT ME IN

EDIT:
And oh again can the spawned units have their own custom ability(ies) which suits the whole idea? And can even the caster has another "side" custom ability which has a certain effect on the original?
Thanks!

 

[Deuterium]

So, is there or is not gonna be a contest?

 

[Jassu]

Would we be allowed to use Vexorian's Timer Library and Captain Griffen's TiemrAttach()?

 

[PurplePoot]

Yes.

 

[maskedpoptart]

This looks fun. The timing is kind of bad for me though... has the start date been decided?

Also, I'm a little confused on the definition of a summon here (any entity that affects game-play on its own). Do dummy units count as summons? When I think about it, locust swarm is just a bunch of dummies acting according to the hardcoded properties of the locust swarm spell. You can't control them, and they just fly around according to a built-in AI of sorts. So does that mean dummy units can count as summons if they follow a specific pattern of behavior? Maybe you should say summons have to have a visible model file, so that xe projectiles and such don't count as summons.

 

[Deuterium]

Yeah maskedpoptart, what you says totally makes sense and I was wondering about what does he mean too.

 

[PurplePoot]

I think that while you can find loopholes in the technicalities the actual meaning of the statement is pretty clear.

 

[Vosty]

^^
Seriously, most of you should have enough sense to figure that one out. =D

 

[maskedpoptart]

^^
Seriously, most of you should have enough sense to figure that one out. =D

Apparently not me


Nah, I have a pretty good idea of what a summon is. I would just hate to see people get disqualified, after all their hard work, for trying to follow a theme that wasn't specific enough.

 

[Just_Spectating]

Basically the summon should be of some life form.

Fire ball dummy would not be a summon.

 

[Deuterium]

I agree with maskedpoptart, I mean considering the thread description, I could basically create a few missile dummies in an AoE which fly around doing something, and that would be - considering the description - a summon, while it really isn't.

And then in the end of the contest, we see people getting disqualified due to this.

It should state (in addition to what he mentions) that a summon should function like any unit with abilities - or something like that.

 

[HINDYhat]

I think that while you can find loopholes in the technicalities the actual meaning of the statement is pretty clear.

Indeed.

Basically the summon should be of some life form.

I think that's a fair enough description. Anything else, like having an abomination as the projectile to a firebolt spell, is just ridiculous conscious rule twisting.

 

[Linaze]

you will not be penalized if you use GUI over JASS.

But you will receive a lower score in certain areas, I hope?

 

[Justicar]

FYI, theres no reason to penalize someone because they use gui (we still cant do as much as you guys can do with jazz, so stop hammering us) Some moderator (purplepoot?) said to end the conversation on jazz vs. gui in this contest, so I'm gonna drop it, whatever else you plan on saying.

 

[Jassu]

But you will receive a lower score in certain areas, I hope?

I agree with this.

 

[Deuterium]

Basically, efficiency should maximum reach a 7/10 and that's in the case where it has no leaks, recycling MUI'ness, and certain custom scripting...

 

[busterkomo]

7/10 is far too high.

 

[Deuterium]

Well, let's be nice to the GUI'ers and not compare it line by line to Jass... and just instead deduct those 3 points.

That would not only give GUI a better chance, but make the contest a bit more competitive.

 

[Jassu]

Basically, efficiency should maximum reach a 7/10 and that's in the case where it has no leaks, recycling MUI'ness, and certain custom scripting...

You're saying that efficiency for JASS-only users will reach a maximum of 10/10?

If that's the case, you may need to elaborate on what the other 20 points will count for in the coding section.

Is the code leakless, organized, MUI, multi-level supporting?

 

[Justicar]

Is this a spell making contest or a coding contest? Unless you think the people using gui are gonna make a better spell than you, stfu, please.

Edit: I've been reading a few tutorials on jass, keep that in mind when you realize your only comeback is "least i took the time to learn jazz" cause I bet I'll learn it earlier than you did in your hive/wc3c "career"

 

[Deuterium]

You're saying that efficiency for JASS-only users will reach a maximum of 10/10?

If that's the case, you may need to elaborate on what the other 20 points will count for in the coding section.

Simple and basic math... 10/10 = 30/30...
Do your math

 

[Jassu]

Simple and basic math... 10/10 = 30/30...
Do your math

I figured there were unspecified parts for the coding section. My apologies.

 

[TriggerHappy]

Someone approve this.

 

[Sean_D-real]

Count me in.

 

[MultiGod]

Needs to be approved.