WW2: World in Flames [REVISED]

[Hugomath]

So, the aircraft will land on airfields to refuel? Or just stand near it?

Btw, just to be sure, only air units have the fuel system?

 

[Fingolfin]

!. Yes, they land in the airport where they are repaired and refueled. The process takes about 8 seconds per plane. Only planes use fuel.

 

[Vuormalainen]

Sorry guys, we're pretty much doomed.

Here are mine:

..
2. Get 10,000 relevant posts and 1000 reputation points.
..

Source: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/off-topic-478/hive-goals-197631/#post1940345

Tho I'm not sure if you could call her posts relevant.

 

[Hugomath]

Hey sorry by the excessive posting recently, but I just noticed something that could be important.

I was looking at the Units tab on the site, and I noticed that the Chinese use German units, and its part of the Allies. Now, I know that you're planning to make this game free to players to what they want, but if the Chinese fight alongside the Allies, wouldn't their units be confused by the players? I know you can simply hover the mouse over the units and see to who they belong, but still... maybe placing some kind of insignia or changing colors of the Chinese units would be better?

 

[WOWWARS]

all units should have a place where the color of the player owning shows?

 

[Deolrin]

I already pointed that issue out for Fingolfin in Chat, Hugomath. I think he doesn't want to change it because historically, China got all of their equipment from Germany.

And btw; Miss_Foxy posts on every project thread she can find. I seriously doubt she really cares about the actual project. If she's not just spamming to get her post count up, then she's trying to "keep WC3 alive", seeing as that seems to be pretty much her life goal from all the bullshit she says in chat and all the resistance she provides when someone even mentions SC2.

 

[Vuormalainen]

Hey sorry by the excessive posting recently, but I just noticed something that could be important.

I was looking at the Units tab on the site, and I noticed that the Chinese use German units, and its part of the Allies. Now, I know that you're planning to make this game free to players to what they want, but if the Chinese fight alongside the Allies, wouldn't their units be confused by the players? I know you can simply hover the mouse over the units and see to who they belong, but still... maybe placing some kind of insignia or changing colors of the Chinese units would be better?

You don't need to excuse yourself hugo

As Deolrin said, we want to keep it historical. And to me it's still pretty clear whos units are whos. 1st you see them on the map, you see that the vision follows them in the game, when holding your mouse over them it goes red.
As well, I think it will be rather rare that China and Germany would get to the point where they fight eachother.

Arn't the Finnish, Italian, German & British, American just as "confusing"? o,o

 

[Fingolfin]

First of all, i just want to clearify to everyone: you never have to excuse yourself for asking us questions or posting in the thread, we love it when you do that, but we just want you to ask because you're genuinely interrested in what we are doing, and not because you want to get many posts, or even keep hive alive (you can do that in other ways).

As for the choise of units for the chineese, i actually chose it because it would make them easier to distinguish, simply for this reason:

Asian countries:
*USA (has american/british units)
*Japan (has japanese/soviet units mixed)
*Great Britain (has american/british units)
*Soviet (in vladivostok, has soviet units)
*China (has german units)

As you see, german units has no representation in asia except for china, and germany itself is so far away that it hardly becomes an issue.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

I'm really sorry for the unnecessary posts everyone, I'll try not to do it again...
Anyways, the refueling I'm talking about is this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerial_refueling

 

[Fingolfin]

Ah, according to that article areial refueling was actually first executed in 1923 so it was infact invented before 1939; though to be fair, it is a bit far fetched still to have it in a ww2 game when you have airfields to land on xD

 

[Hugomath]

Plus they didn't used tanker planes on WW2. Although it could be researched by some country during the game...

Btw Fingolfin, don't you think the Spitfire would fit better for the British? They used it more often than the Hurricane, and its pretty much a symbol of the RAF, and the Battle of Britain .

 

[.VTZ.]

yeah its a lot of technology to that time :x

 

[Fingolfin]

No, hugo, you got it all backwards; they used the hawker hurricane a LOT more than the spitfire, while the latter was mainly known for it's technical superiority to other fighters of the time.

This is what wikipedia says:

Although largely overshadowed by the Supermarine Spitfire, the aircraft became renowned during the Battle of Britain, accounting for 60% of the RAF's air victories in the battle, and served in all the major theatres of the Second World War.

 

[Deolrin]

Well, the Spitfire DOES have some kind of a 'legendary' status as a super-awesome plane. Why not have a special research that only Britain can use, which will transform all of your Hurricanes into Spitfires? Kind of like the Headhunter --> Berserker upgrade.

 

[Fingolfin]

True, although i am not sure if it is a responsible way to use up our file size..
Anyways, i chose the Hawker since it felt less cliché than the spitfire somehow, and since i felt that it represented the british struggle in a better way; a studry but aging, and cheap to produce fighter, showing their desperate situation more than an all-round superior craft.

if i choose the spitfire, it will be strong and fast (yet marginally slower than the ME109), but expensive and slow to produce.

If i choose the hawker, it will be cheap and slow, but bulky and hard to kill. In either case, the british plane will have vastly superior fuel capacity than the german ones.

This is how the different charts look:

Fuel capacity

Most fuel:
Hawker Hurricane/Supermarine Spitfire
Mitsubishi A6m "Zero"
Aichi D3a "val"
Douglas SBD Dauntless

Standard fuel:
Yakolev Yak-9
IL-2 Sturmovik
P51 Mustang (or Grumman F6F Hellcat, i haven't made up my mind)

Least fufel:
JU87 "Stuka"
Messerschmitt bf 109

Speed
notice that those are based on class, dive bombers are always slower than fighters

Fastest:
Yakolev Yak-9
Messerschmitt bf 109
IL-2 Sturmovik
Mitsubishi A6m "Zero"

Standard:
P51 Mustang
Hawker Hiurricane/Supermarine Spitfire
Douglas SBD Dauntless

Slowest:
JU87 "Stuka"
Aichi D3a "val"

Durability

Strongest:
JU87 "Stuka"
Douglas SBD Dauntless

Standard:
Aichi D3a "val"
Mitsubishi A6m "Zero"
Hawker Hiurricane/Supermarine Spitfire
Messerschmitt bf 109
P51 Mustang

Weakest:
Yakolev Yak-9
IL-2 Sturmovik

With reservation for change. Pardon me if i ever forgot any of the planes on the list.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Didn't you say there could be bonuses when the game years get a little long?
Could that be one of them too

 

[Hugomath]

Yeah well sorry for confusing the spitfire and the hurricane. I actually prefer the hurricane (at least on FH2), because it usually has better guns than the spitfire.

And, imo, the Mustang would fit better. As far as I know, the Americans used the Mustang more often in Europe than the Hellcat. Although the Hellcat was carrier-capable. (Sorry if I confuse this too).

 

[Fingolfin]

No hugo, you are perfectly correct, the Hellcat was a carrier-based fighter that was used very extensively in the pacific, while the Mustang was a land based fighter which was more common in europe. Another suggestion would be the Corsair, which was a pretty unique and interresting fighter, although it's wing design could have people confuse it for a dive bomber (it has bent wings and airbrakes).

F6F Hellcat:

Images

Corsair:

Images

P51 Mustang:

Images

Pros from using the Hellcat are that it had more pronounced characteristics other than just "good at everything", so it would be easy to give it a clear balance in therms of ratio between speed, fuel capacity, cost, and damage. Another obvious pro is that it has foldable wings, which would make it fit very well together with the Dauntless when landed on a carrier.

Pros with using the corsair are similar to that of the above, and it also have an interresting shape. Cons with both are that they weren't used that extensively in europe, but on the other hand, the americans never went for air superiority on europe anyways.

Pros with the mustang is that it simply looks damn cool, and that it is a characteristic plane that everyone recognizes. It was a very successful design and it would be fun to texture and model. Cons are that it was a mid-war design, compared to for instance the Zero, me109, and Hawker which were all early war, which means it would outclass them all on unfair terms (which is especially bad in the case of the Zero, which was otherwise known for beign superior to all other planes of its time).

Tell me what you all think.

 

[Hugomath]

I agree in everything you said. The mustang is very awesome. And, to be honest, I don't like the shape of the F4F/F6F. Don't know why, I just don't like it lol.

I came up with two other suggestions: the F4F Wildcat and the P-40 Warhawk. Both where introduced in the early stages war (1940 and 1938, respectively). Although both were outclassed by the Zero. I also have other suggestion, the P-38 Lightning. However, it wasn't carrier-capable (I think) and was pretty unmatched by the Japanese fighters. Plus, it would look pretty different among the rest of the fighters, since it has two engines.

So, anyway, I think that a good option is to make different fighters for the two U.S players. For example, the Pacific U.S would have the Corsair, while the European U.S would have the Mustang (just an example). However, that would be a problem to the file size issue.

Btw, the Germans made many variants for the BF-109. Perhaps one of them was able to fight against the Mustang, no?

 

[.VTZ.]

i have a question, what about japanese planes
like that ones used in pearl harbor atack.
and they was used on ww2 (suicide atacks on ww2 war)

im just curious :x

 

[-W3SK3R-]

It would be great if you can add Yugoslavia

 

[Fingolfin]

You mean as a playable faction?
It could be cool, just to have a larger part of the map controller by players rather than being neutral, but we are trying to keep the player count low so that the map will be easy to host, and we now have a very round and nice number of 4 allies and 4 axis.

Which leads to you, Hugo, i saw you mentioned pacific and atlantic USA, and i should propably mention that they have been combined to just "USA", so that is not possible. Also, the Curtis Warhawk was really cool, but it didn't have foldable wings wither, so i might aswell go with the P51.
The lighting is a bit too large to fit on our carrier models, and i also want to keep the design consistent - all fighters should be single engined, although they can have any other unique design elements as long as it doesn't make them too similar to the other classes.

The F4F Wildcat is certainly an option - i thought you guys would be more into the similar F6F, since it had largely the same appearance, but whatever works for you.
This is how it looked, for those of you who doesn't know.

When it came to planes in WiF, i wanted to use the ones that really fought, like the Hawker Hurricane, Warhawk/Kittyhawk, Hellcat, Dauntless - instead of the ones that got famous afterwards, like the Spitfire and P51, for fighting at the period where the axis were on the retreat. The production of the spitfire officially started in 1936, but due to complications in production only 10 planes had been produced by the end of 1940, where the production later kicked off. Same goes for the P51; it was not produced on a full scale until late 1943.

I will propably still end up making the P51 though, since it was what i had decided for, but i would have to fake it into being carrier-compatiable and giving it foldable wings, otherwise it would just look awkward next to the dauntless.

@VTZ: Do you mean the Nakajima B5N?
It was a famous torpedo bomber that sunk a lot of ships in pearl harbour. I propably don't have room for those, but the Aichi D3a "val" was also used a lot there, and it is going to be included, aswell as the Zero ofcourse, which was a common kamikaze craft and general purpouse fighter throughout the war.

 

[.VTZ.]

You mean as a playable faction?
It could be cool, just to have a larger part of the map controller by players rather than being neutral, but we are trying to keep the player count low so that the map will be easy to host, and we now have a very round and nice number of 4 allies and 4 axis.

Which leads to you, Hugo, i saw you mentioned pacific and atlantic USA, and i should propably mention that they have been combined to just "USA", so that is not possible. Also, the Curtis Warhawk was really cool, but it didn't have foldable wings wither, so i might aswell go with the P51.
The lighting is a bit too large to fit on our carrier models, and i also want to keep the design consistent - all fighters should be single engined, although they can have any other unique design elements as long as it doesn't make them too similar to the other classes.

The F4F Wildcat is certainly an option - i thought you guys would be more into the similar F6F, since it had largely the same appearance, but whatever works for you.
This is how it looked, for those of you who doesn't know.

When it came to planes in WiF, i wanted to use the ones that really fought, like the Hawker Hurricane, Warhawk/Kittyhawk, Hellcat, Dauntless - instead of the ones that got famous afterwards, like the Spitfire and P51, for fighting at the period where the axis were on the retreat. The production of the spitfire officially started in 1936, but due to complications in production only 10 planes had been produced by the end of 1940, where the production later kicked off. Same goes for the P51; it was not produced on a full scale until late 1943.

I will propably still end up making the P51 though, since it was what i had decided for, but i would have to fake it into being carrier-compatiable and giving it foldable wings, otherwise it would just look awkward next to the dauntless.

@VTZ: Do you mean the Nakajima B5N?
It was a famous torpedo bomber that sunk a lot of ships in pearl harbour. I propably don't have room for those, but the Aichi D3a "val" was also used a lot there, and it is going to be included, aswell as the Zero ofcourse, which was a common kamikaze craft and general purpouse fighter throughout the war.

yeah thanks for info

 

[Spoontoobig]

omg omg omg ! Waiting for this

 

[Fingolfin]

Moar warships!!

Images

Full link and description HERE!!

 

[warman45]

im sorry but i have no intention of reading back over 100 pages for this.

i maintain that germany should have access to the me 262. (its dual engine but it is the size of a single engine aircraft.) my reasons are as follows.

1. it gives germany an end-game. expensive but superior to everything else
2. it did fight in ww2. in fact it was the only jet to see actual use in combat (eventually racking up a 4-1 kill ratio against p-51's)
3. it shows how the germans began to make technological leaps, that (if they had faired better) would have justified their investment (which severely hampered production.)
4. it adds "flavour" to the end of the game for germany. either highlighting their desperation (you know the war is going well for you when the other guy starts trying to build a gundam.) or if they are winning then it highlights their success. (you can't argue with jet fighters)
5. it is a distinct airplane that seperates germany from everyone else. it also gives the allies a reason to pick up the pace and take germany out instead of waiting for 1946
6. if germany had fought for a longer period of time the airplane would have become far more common, and may even have begun to stop the air-raids, and begin to nullify allied air superiority (speculation i know.)

 

[Miss_Foxy]

That looks quite nice Fin, how did you do the insides of it?

 

[Fingolfin]

No problem, we can propably fix that. Aircraft speed is an important factor now since it allows you to travel longer distances on your fuel, and also do scouting and hunting down other planes.
One question though, would it be a fighter, bomber, or a fighter-bomber?
Fighters are very quick at chasing down and killing eachother as it is, so i figured you might spice it up by also giving it a bombing attack like dive bombers have, but perhaps at lower damage or higher cooldown.

 

[warman45]

Well, here are the few upgrades we have right now:

All factions:
*Improved sonar radius upgrade

Soviet:

*Reestablish military command (removes the "disorganized" debuff from all soviet units and reduces chance of infantry spawning as a standard bearer by 10%)
*Large caliber barrels (gives 85mm barrel to the t34, increasing damage and range)

Germany:
*Heavy tank production (allows production of the tiger tank)
*Reinforced metal plating (adds metal sheet protection to all Panzer IV's, adding to their HP)

And we also have planned for some other ones, like perhaps increased airplane fuel capacity, faster airplane resupply time, general armor and damage increase upgrades, and other stuff.

im sorry for the double-post (assuming i don't take too long writing this.) but even if this does become a double post it is far more convienient for the reader to seperate my thoughts.

i have a few ideas for upgrades (both nation specific and umbrella)

Britain-Earthquake bombs (these heavy bombs were designed by Barnes Wallis. the idea was to direct the blast into the ground (instead of the target) causing a small earthquake that undermines the buildings foundation (requiring the whole building to be torn-down to fix the problem.) gives british bombers an attack bonus

United States of America-Millitary Modernization (upgrades the current arsenal of the United States (stuart light tanks, ww1 reft battleships) into modern macines (sherman, Essex class, Iowa class, B-29 Superfortress)) unit upgrade.

Soviet Union- Industrial Relocation (after operation barbarossa began, the Soviet Union was forced to relocat all of its industrial machinery to beyond the urals. it did this in a record pace, depriving the germans of industry that could be used agains the union.) removes certain factories located in europe and places them beyond the urals.

Japan- Desperate measures (as the americans closed, japan began to adopt the unthinkable, kamakaz pilots and civilian conscripts.) gives access to kamakazi pilots, and causes japanese building that are under attack to have a random chance of spawning conscripts. (kamazazis hrt all ships except for battleships and british aircraft carriers. for details see bottumn.)

United States of America- Manhatten Project ("i have become death, the destroyer of worlds") if japan has lost most of its pacific holdings then america can use this to cause peace with japan. (as apposed to invading them directly)

Germany- Technological advancements (as the war progressed german scientists began putting into production, weapons that would change the face of warfare forever. ME-262, STG-44, Tiger II, V1, V2, Goliath remote bombs) grants access to the ME-262, gives a bonus to the attack of german infantry and armor (not too signifigant) also gives them one rocket, that looks much cooler when you ignore it's attack value.....

General- long range aircraft (nations began to wage warfare over longer distances. to fix this nations began to include such features as external feul tanks.) longer range

General - Advanced ASW (the german u-boat menace was so damaging that nations began to develop new technologies such as homing torpedoes, hedgehog launchers, and advanced convoy tactics.) bonus to destroyer attacks and convoy deffenses

General - Advanced Submarines (near the end of the war, nations began to develop submarine technologies that would revolutionize how the weapons is used. examples are: Snorkel (a german invention allowing submarines to operate underwater longer) battery powered submarines (silent, fast, deadly to the extreme (almost undetectable) Alberich (anechoic rubber tiling making the submarine completely invisible to sonar.) submarines become indetectable to ships that do not possess advanced asw. attack bonus.

ok. allow me to justify why british aircraft carriers should be immune while american ones shouldn't. american aircraft carriers had wooden decks, giving them more room for aircraft. British carriers were armored. there is footage of british carriers surviving almost unscathed from amaazi attacks that would cripple american ships



Edit: by hitlers direct orders the ME 262 was a fghter bomber, however even with bombs it was still the fastest plane in the war. so it's more of a bomber interceptor. (honestly it needs to be expensive, and it shouldn't be too effective in the bombing role. think of it as a fighter that can do small damage to land units.)

 

[Hugomath]

Lovely work on the Essex! I liked the details on the sides, showing AA guns. Btw do these guns have some kind of attack animation when the carrier attacks air units?(If they can)

 

[WOWWARS]

finnally i'm back and i see it been alot of progress since last time i saw this.

 

[Fingolfin]

@Miss_Foxy: I use alpha textures on the wall and then i have a simple plane for the lower flight deck floor.

@Warman: A lot of your suggestions are based on the idea that the game will have the exact course as the historical war. What if the soviet union waits a long time to upgrade the relocation thing, and it turns out he doesn't have any factories in europe that can be relocated? Or what if the enemy has occupied siberia before the upgrade finishes?

Here are the suggestions that i liked:

*For Japan to have militia spawn at cities that are under attack is quite an interresting idea that could give them a notable perk that affects the way they are played. I would, however, rather call it something like "Death before Dishonour", since that is not as much sugesting that they are loosing. Kamikaze aircrafts are aofcourse already planned, so i will not comment on those.

*Extended aircraft fuel is something that could certainly be worth an upgrade and will most propably be used. However, i think it is important that there is a potential for other even up by simply keeping in the same tier as you, like in warcraft where you can counter the effects of an enemy armor upgrade by getting your own damage upgrade - with planes however, we need to be careful with increasing speed or fuel capacity since we risk breaking the intended disadvantages of airplanes. Terrain size is constant, so that means having more than a minor increase in speed and fuel will mean that planes will be able to cross vastly greater distances which makes it much harder for us to balance them and also reduces the need for carriers. I also think theese upgrades would be reflecting natural developments to, for instance, even out the great fuel disadvantages that german planes have to allied and japanese ones.

*We have already decided how the nuke development systemw ill work (i even think you helped come up with it, in the old thread) so that is already sorted out.

*Upgrades for u-boat oxygen capacity is a great idea for an upgrade, especially since it will already be countered by the extended sonar range of the destroyers.

Now, theese are the ones that i didn't like:

*Military modernization, which would in practice mean that i'd need a double set of models for the american army, of which one would become obsolete after this upgrade.

*The same goes for having a single upgrade unlock all high-tech units for the german player, or even be required for other upgrades. However, i could imagine having smaller, less generic upgrades that leads down a tree to a certain tech - one example might be having one upgrade being called "Jet streams", or "rapid air compression", or whatever, that in turn would be just "symbolic" steps to reach the jet fighter upgrade.

Another side note: american carriers did too have armored deck, it was the japanese that had wooden ones, and that is also represented in the map. Japanese ships are more fragile but can room as many planes as the american one at less cost and build time.

If you ever want to catch up on the modeling process you can check out the devlog here, we have also implemented a lot of different units including airplanes with a really nice movement system that looks very lifelike.

 

[warman45]

first off i would like to apolagize for going off on a tangent (as opposed to a secant, or a cosecant)(math joke). i have been inactive here for almost a year, so i am disconnected from virtually everything. it doesn't help that the main page hasn't really been updated for over a year.

my first question is:
what is the nuclear system? (i probably helped develop it but i don't remember.)

second:
what are the playable nations?

alright. on to other things.

when reading through some of my suggestions i was unhappy with a few that i felt were too generic. there are a few things i wish to deffend. one is the abillity that allows the Soviet Union to relocate industry. first off, it is almost impossible for russia to be pushed back all the way to siberia BEFORE they lose europe. i agree having it as an upgrade is a problem, but maybey as a one-off abillity that they can chose to use.

okay, that is really all i wanted to deffend on that point. i think the earthquake bomb upgrade for the british would be interesting. it would also stop them from bombing germany early in game, as their bombers wouldn't be as effective untill they get the upgrade.

there were a few misinterpritations on some of the things i mentioned, but it is unnecesary to mention them because they are flawed for other reasons.

enhanced infantry weapons (upgrade) when germany invaded the soviet union, they faced an army with so many sub-machine guns that they had almost phased out the rifle... this upgrade shows the begining of the trend towards automatic weapons, and more prevalent special equipment. this upgrade increases infantry attack and rate of fire.

advanced infantry weapons (upgrade) nations began to develop new weapons for their infantry, that would end the generic setup of weaponry prevalent in the last century. examples of specific equipment: Panzerfaust, Bazooka, Goliath remote bombs, STG-44 assualt rifle. this upgrade increases infantry armor and damage done to tanks and vehicles

Gas Turbine Engines (unlocks access to jet airplanes, may be country specific, however all major nations except for japan and the soviet union had operational aircraft)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_jet_aircraft_of_World_War_II
proof.

i thought of a new system for airplanes if you're interested. when you build an airplane you get a airfield. the airfield has abillities based on the airplanes capabillities (interceptors have intercept, and escort) these abillities spawn aircraft that run specific roles (interceptor auto creates an interceptor to attack the enemies airplanes that enter the area) all airfields have a relocate button that moves the airfield.

i think this would be easier to control. you're airplanes would return to base automatically, and it would require little intervention (just park you're 109's off france and set them to auto-intercept.) not all abillities will be autocasted. you may choose to control where you bomb (or set it on auto to flatten an area) but if they have a ton of aa you may want to micro it. it gives options.


now you mentioned how japan cities creating militia (in response to what i suggested) as a specific "perk" that makes their gameplay unique. i thought i would brainstorm a few other things.

buildings owned by the soviet union have a chance of being destroyed when their captured

france can choose to place rebels anywhere in france

ok i ran out of ideas. ill come up with more.

 

[Fingolfin]

This is how the aircraft system currently works, i figured you might be interrested:

Airports are capturable structures scaresly spread throughout the map. They have the ability to build airplanes which are automatically stored inside the airport and the ammount of planes harboured are shown by a number below the airplane icon, this number is itself a button for an ability, that, when clicked, will launch one of the stored planes of that type to the target point.
Planes attack through Phoenix Fire, so they will automatically shoot any target they come near, although right-clicking a target will cause the plane to chase it. Bombers will have an ability to carpet bomb target (they will start bombing x meters in front of the target in the line between the target and where they are standing). Planes will also have an ability that automatically causes them to return to the nearest airport.

The nuke system will work much like the following: upgrading nukes will not be like any other research, the process will be visible for all players in a kind of "nuke race", and the speed of the progress is determined by how many research facilities you have and/or how large part of your income you chose to divert to nuke research.
Whenever someone launches a nuke - (wether it will be by plane or balistic missile is not yet decided, but an airplane seems to be the most easy to intercept while ofcourse, ballistic missiles have the advantage of being more distinct) - all other players will be warned of it, and propably also have the location of the plane pinged as it travels.

The earthquake bomb however, seems like a quite reasonable upgrade, although it was not used that extensively and due to its weight, only a single bomb could be dropped at a time, defeating the purpouse of carpet bombs. I am not against the idea of any other type of damage enhancing upgrades for bombers, though.

Enhanced infantry weapons etc also seems good, but, it would have to be countered by improved health or armor to all soldiers, otherwise they would suffer from dying too quickly (they already die pretty rapidly facing the wrong enemy).


On a side note, did you guys know that japan made specialized kamikaze aircraft, in the shape of a flying bomb, during the end of the war?
It almost feels parodic, but here it is.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Will airports also be a source of minor income? It seems that it could help economically through supplies sent, etc.

 

[warman45]

did you know that that flying bob was dropped from the "betty" medium bomber, and was in fact rocet propeled, making it more of a manned missile then a flying bomb?

by the way. on the topic of the infantry weapon upgrades. the best way to think about it is that all infantry have a negative bonus to firepower and rate of fire untill the first upgrade (seperating early war from late war) and the final upgrade makes them more effective against vehicles (by increasing their armor and attack vs vehicles)

this isn't technically accurate but it is a better viewpoint with which to view the upgrade. the purpose of the first one is to make infantry more dangerous to each other, and the second upgrade makes them more dangerous to vehicles.

 

[Hugomath]

I'm curious about the models. Did you edited any of the tanks/at-guns (except the Bofors 37mm) since you uploaded those images on the first post?

EDIT: I was thinking about a buff for the Soviet. It's based off the strategy that the soviets used during Operation Barbarossa. The strategy was simple: when a soviet line of defense was broken by the Germans, the remaining soldiers of this line would retreat to the next line. I'm not sure about it, but if its real, then it was one* of the factors that stopped the Germans. Anyway, back on the map: the idea is to make a buff that, whenever a soviet city/town is captured, a positive morale is added to soviet units. These towns/cities would, of course, have to belong to the soviets since the beginning of the game (they wouldn't gain any morale by losing a city which they conquered). This buff would be removed once the city/town was regained by soviet troops. The buff would be something like a combat bonus to infantry (perhaps tanks and airplanes too).

* = I highlighted that word before someone stupid shows up and start a discussion here.

 

[Fingolfin]

@Hugomath: I am quite sure that falling back to the next line was a strategy most commonly exercised by all factions during the war, and i am not too sure about gaining a positive morale effect from loosing a city, for people unaware of the basis, it would make very little sense.

As for the models, i don't believe i edited any of them, although i am planning to redo the texture for the Panzer IV sometime since it is so undefined and looks bad at long ranges.

@Warman:

I like the idea of having low-tier units, that would otherwise become obsolete in the end game, get a boost to effectiveness like such. However, increasing infantry damage (or more likely attack rate) makes infantry die faster against eachother, and i am currently quite pleased with the durability of infantry against eachother.

One thing however, that i am still VERY tempted to add that could justify a damage upgrade, is mortar teams. They would have a smoke grenade ability that gives infantry within it's effect a 20% evasion that would greately increase their chances of reaching their target (right now it is much like in your average WW2 movie - soldiers rushing through artillery fire, or towards a bunker, will see about half of their friends die a glorious death.). The standard mortar shells would do minor damage, but slow down it's targets - it would also outrange the bunker allowing it to slowly wear them down from a safe distance. In this regard, the mortar would be a kind of support unit mora than an offensive unit and is best used in moderate numbers in combination with light tanks or regular soldiers. It would also complete the low-tier unit tree, as follows:

For those in lack of oil:
*AT-guns - for anti-tank
*Infantry - for main grunt
*Mortar - for siege

For those with oil:
*Tank Hunters - for anti-tank
*Medium Tanks - for main grunt
*Self Propelled Artillery - for siege

 

[Miss_Foxy]

I don't really the the one about the main grunt of the Infantry having a lack of oil though, care to elaborate?

 

[Fingolfin]

Well, in this game, at least in the start, all players will have less oil income than they have gold, and hence, they cannot afford to build all oil-costly vehicles, but must build some that cost only gold. There are also some situations where perhaps you only have one refinery, and then you will also be starving for oil, while gold is mostly an abundance.

Therefore, you have a kind of low vs high tier situation - you CAN get units that cost only gold, that fill the same roles but are less advanced, but if you have oil you will be able to buy more advanced stuff such as V2 rockets and Tiger Tanks (if you are axis).
By main grunt i basically just mean that they are the basic all-purpouse unit you are going to get - in a tank army, light tanks are anti-infantry, heavy tanks are anti-tank, while medium tanks are just a basic all-round workhorse.

 

[Deolrin]

Perhaps replace 'gold' with 'Funds', 'Cash' or 'Money', btw?
Also, what is lumber going to be used for? Metal\iron? Oil? Or what?

 

[warman45]

i actually do like the idea for the soviet union. they did use a deffense in depth, and while all nations used the tactic to some extent, none were so important as when the soviets used it to slow barbarossa. it might be interesting if every city the soviets lose grants them a bonus (it could be as simple as some infantry appearing at moscow every time a city is lost for the first time.

other ideas are every time a british fighter is shot down over britain there other planes get a moral boost (the pilot is recovered and given a new airplane)

for italy..... o i got one!. italy is granted one special unit every income in the medteranian. this unit is a manned torpedo. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_torpedo(proof)
the unit is invisible (even to destroyers) and has an abillity called sabotage. the reason it is invisible to everything is because otherwise it will simply be killed. it is NOT a one hit kill, it merely does damage. perhaps equal to 20% of a units health.

i got one for china as well. the abillity is called american aid. it gives them a couple of free fighters every income, to balance the fact that they have almost no oil.

finland should have a negative bonus in their territory. all units in their territory have negative movement, attack, and armor values to portray how difficult the terrain is (movement is slow, it is easy to ambush, and tanks have very little armor on their tops) the thing is that finish units are immune to this effect. (this should also stop the soviets from wiping them out and then dealing with germany)

the USA can get an abillity called lend-lease. the abillity is available from the very begining and what it does is it allows them to give units to any nation they want (including germany if they feel so inclined) they cannot give ships or infantry, but they can give tanks, and airplanes)

 

[Vuormalainen]

Perhaps replace 'gold' with 'Funds', 'Cash' or 'Money', btw?
Also, what is lumber going to be used for? Metal\iron? Oil? Or what?

Gold=Currency
Lumber=Oil
in WiF

 

[Fingolfin]

@Deolrin: Yeah, it is called "currency" in the game, but due to old habit i just call it gold. Lumber represents oil.

@Warman: Finland currently has very rough terrain that slows down tanks, and a lot of natural protection in areas where finnish troops are garrisoned, but we have yet to solve the issue with who will be immune to which climate etc; i wanted to add seasonal effects in the north and south respectively, with rain periods in the pacific, drought in north africa, and bitter cold in the north at their respective seasons, but here is the dilemma:
Would russians be affected to the finnish winter, but immune to their own, russian winter?
The russian winter has been known of to be very harsh for hundreds of years, yet it is finland that really needs the boost. I figured tthat perhaps the core of it is that you are not as affected if you are fighting at your own turf, i.e. if you are properly dug in or inhabited in the place, you have better abilities to resist the cold. Again though, we have the problem of dynamic borders as you capture more cities - perhaps you could make it so that being near a city (generous distance, perhaps about 1000 units of warcraft measure) the effect of the winter would be mostly negated. Give suggestions and opinions.

Anyways, i don't liek the idea of having players rewarded in that way for loosing untis, a "morale boost" would in eather case be quite inappropriate. However, in a game Vuorma and i use to play, one nation will have pilots drop with their chutes when teh airplane is downed (provided that they are over land) so that you can use it as a unit; that would be a more reasonable idea.

I have also had thoughts of having the lend-lease agreement represented, but perhaps then as a boost in trading value from ships.

 

[Deolrin]

Oh, that's nice, then. ^^

As for weather... I think it's a good idea to not make 'nation-specific' weather, but rather region specific. E.g, in cold regions(Finland, Russia), there will be a freezing winter, but in warm climates, there will be a burning hot sun, both of which would affect troops negatively. The immune nations would then be the ones that are native to such a region(e.g, Russians are immune to winter everywhere).

 

[Vuormalainen]

Oh, that's nice, then. ^^

As for weather... I think it's a good idea to not make 'nation-specific' weather, but rather region specific. E.g, in cold regions(Finland, Russia), there will be a freezing winter, but in warm climates, there will be a burning hot sun, both of which would affect troops negatively. The immune nations would then be the ones that are native to such a region(e.g, Russians are immune to winter everywhere).

Would work but.. the russians got pwnt in the finnish winter!

 

[Fingolfin]

I agree, though i could really need some ideas on how i should actually program it.. i mean, if it were only one country, i could make a dummy unit that belongs to them with a weather dummy aura that only affects enemies.. if there are several, it gets harder. Let me know if there is anything i can exploit for this.

EDIT: Another thing we could do is just to make the winter of 1939 in finland to a particularly cold one, that somehow affects the russians more than the finns. Lol. Perhaps this would provide the good defensive start finland needs.

 

[Vuormalainen]

Winter
Create 1 Winter Debuff Dummy at point for Neutral Hostile
Create 1 Winter Debuff Counter Dummy at point for Finland
Create 1 Winter Debuff Counter Dummy at point for Russia

Winter Debuff Dummy -50 reduced movement speed.
Winter Debuff Counter Dummy 50 increased movement speed.

Ugly, but probably works

And agreed Fin, the winter of 1939 was -50°C at it lowest. And yes obviously it affected them more as they did not use skis and a already poor army wouldnt do any good in a cold dead terrain.

 

[Fingolfin]

Yeah, that sounds reasonable.

Anyways, for those of you who doesn't check the forums, i have finished the model for the Mitsubishi A6M Zero:

Here is the devlog post.

 

[Hugomath]

Nice work. I thought you were going to use a white texture color though, because I usually see them in it.