What if God..

[[K40$]-Spectre]

What if God was a male, what would he look like?

What if God was a female, what would she look like?

What if God didn't(did) exist, what would happen?

, don't think of it cause you can't get the answer and will only think in circles. I always say: "born to be alive".

 

[Gausslander]

Ya Elenai, one problem with that... going to church every Sunday is basically like attending the same gym meeting every week just because they told you to "eat right." That and I enjoy sex, and would not like to see that dissipate from my life So I'm going to have to reject your offer.

 

[Elenai]

Ya Elenai, one problem with that... going to church every Sunday is basically like attending the same gym meeting every week just because they told you to "eat right."

And thus I obtain a healthier body, stable cholesterol levels, and in general a better life.

That and I enjoy sex, and would not like to see that dissipate from my life So I'm going to have to reject your offer.

I thought so.

 

[Ash]

You are a person! You have a cold! You have several people that tell you how to 'get better'...One person says...say..."Eat some soup". You eat some soup, and you feel better. The cold is still there, and it still effects you, the soup didn't 'cure it' but it 'helped'. In the end you had to wait it out, and you got 'anti-bodies' to help you fight it in the future.

You just summed up Christianity. Some guy tells you to believe in something, or eat some soup, and you do. You feel better for it.

 

[Dynasti]

You just summed up Christianity.

Finaly

 

[Grim]

If god was male i think I'de go for the stereo-typical old man approach =)
If god was female then I'de go for the incredibly hawt and gorgeous, seductive gal approach,
If god didn't exist then I think Ralle just got promoted :O

 

[Dynasti]

If god didn't exist then I think Ralle just got promoted :O

So true.

 

[Elenai]

You just summed up Christianity. Some guy tells you to believe in something, or eat some soup, and you do. You feel better for it.

Wasn't that the point?

 

[Teh_Ephy]

you're forgetting that all any of your religious texts do is to persuade you to be a better person.

You say that like it's a bad thing to persuade people to be better people.

Why not spend as much time serving others as you do in church? Why not take the money that your church has gotten from you, and instead invest it in people?

You mean like missionaries do...?

 

[Ash]

Wasn't that the point?

... So you're openly denouncing your own religion?

 

[Elenai]

... So you're openly denouncing your own religion?

How am I denouncing my religion by saying it helps people?

 

[leet.firefox]

By saying it is only a temporary solution whose only purpose is to make you feel better. Otherwise you can get better by yourself, it just may be slower and more painful, but ultimately with the same results in the end. Soup doesn't keep you happy for the rest of your life. And if you eat the same soup every time you get sick, you may begin to find alternative methods to make yourself feel better.

 

[PurplePoot]

Soup helps your mind in a cold, religion helps your mind in a life.

Your mind controls your body, so helping your mind helps you more than anything. Haven't you supported the idea of philosophy being mandatory?

So that people can learn to think critically, yes. Not so that they can trick themselves.

Yes, how does "Sargeras is the real god", a fictional character in a video game, provide a valid statement?

Tell me how you came to that conclusion.

I could say the same about "a fictional character in an old book." I find it interesting how "real" religions automatically get diplomatic immunity but everyone else is allowed to be criticized.

How am I denouncing my religion by saying it helps people?

Because you're saying it's made up to help people feel good and has no basis in reality.

 

[Elenai]

Because you're saying it's made up to help people feel good and has no basis in reality.

...no...

That would be reading into the metaphor what was not intended...

 

[KingDedede]

If I was God

Well, you're not me.

 

[leet.firefox]

I could say the same about "a fictional character in an old book." I find it interesting how "real" religions automatically get diplomatic immunity but everyone else is allowed to be criticized.

I do not see "real' religions gaining diplomatic immunity here, I'm pretty sure religion has been broken down to the molecular level in this thread.

And what you said would be true, if he had provided some factual backing of his claims, or had said anything else besides "'Sargares is God." Right after saying there is no god. And then he went on to admit it was a statement directed down the path of irony. Which makes his claim even more laughable.

 

[Teh_Ephy]

He was making a stupid statement and trying to get people to laugh. I do it all the time, I don't see why you hold it against him.

 

[PurplePoot]

...no...

That would be reading into the metaphor what was not intended...

That is what he said, and you were agreeing with it. That was his point.

Also, if your metaphors imply two things and you are surprised when people interpret one of them, then get new metaphors.

I do not see "real' religions gaining diplomatic immunity here, I'm pretty sure religion has been broken down to the molecular level in this thread.

People give ground to the real religions (you might be right, we'll respect your beliefs, etc).

 

[leet.firefox]

He was making a stupid statement and trying to get people to laugh. I do it all the time, I don't see why you hold it against him.

There is a time and place for that, and this does not feel like one of those times nor places. It's nothing personal, his was the first I saw when I came back to this thread.

People give ground to the real religions (you might be right, we'll respect your beliefs, etc).

And for what reason do you think this happens?

 

[PurplePoot]

And for what reason do you think this happens?

Because people don't want to hear that they may have wasted their life.

 

[leet.firefox]

Because people don't want to hear that they may have wasted their life.

lol, of course they don't. Nobody wants to come to the realization that all their hopes and dreams, everything they have struggled and sacrificed, has all been in vain. A wasted endeavor.

Nor does a person want to hear that their parents have died, or they boss is letting them go. Or they cat was ran over. It is simple human nature to want to hold on to our earthly bonds. To keep everything they have in an orderly and conveniant manner.

To try to change somebody from wasting their life, is indeed a waste of your own life. An endless loop of life-wasting.

*I am Seventh-Day Adventist

 

[Gilles]

I could say the same about "a fictional character in an old book." I find it interesting how "real" religions automatically get diplomatic immunity but everyone else is allowed to be criticized.

No, it's because they have evidence, while the fictional character does not.
We've been over that though.

 

[PurplePoot]

No, it's because they have evidence, while the fictional character does not.
We've been over that though.

If "prove that our god does not exist" is evidence, then yes, you do.

The rest of the 'evidence' is invalid; we've also been over that countless times.

 

[Teh_Ephy]

Poot. Hackeembot.8-ball has said that God probably exists. What more proof do you need?

 

[leet.firefox]

Poot. Hackeembot.8-ball has said that God probably exists. What more proof do you need?

That pretty much seals the deal.

 

[PurplePoot]

Poot. Hackeembot.8-ball has said that God probably exists. What more proof do you need?

Pah, Foiled.

I'll get you next time!

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

WILLTHEALMIGHTY: [22-47-01] God doesn't seem to be an existing user
WILLTHEALMIGHTY: [22-51-32] Allah doesn't seem to be an existing user
WILLTHEALMIGHTY: [22-51-42] Yahve doesn't seem to be an existing user
WILLTHEALMIGHTY: Hmmm... still looking for God.
WILLTHEALMIGHTY: [22-52-07] Xenu has been successfully ignored
WILLTHEALMIGHTY: A-HA!

Fools.

 

[Teh_Ephy]

FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU~!

(caps)

 

[Hakeem]

Those were probably just the signs the magic eight ball algorithm was referring to, so, no gain...

---

What you people don't understand is that whilst trying to say that religion is important, you're forgetting that all any of your religious texts do is to persuade you to be a better person.

Mine tells how to get along. This is important because people can spend their whole lives trying to get along with other people, and fail miserably. Not necessarily at you, Scyth:

---

Hint: The answer is not agnosticism.

So that people can learn to think critically, yes. Not so that they can trick themselves.

Irrelevant. My point was only to demonstrate the importance that the mind has. The most powerful force in the world in our minds. The depth of things we can accomplish with it far surpasses anything known to exist in the universe today.

I find it interesting how "real" religions automatically get diplomatic immunity but everyone else is allowed to be criticized.

Oh. I'm terribly sorry. I didn't know you actually believed in IPU.

He was making a stupid statement and trying to get people to laugh. I do it all the time, I don't see why you hold it against him.

Tact.

Also, if your metaphors imply two things and you are surprised when people interpret one of them, then get new metaphors.

You guys failed to comprehend the metaphor. Soup helps a cold. Religion helps a life. How they help is a detail irrelevant. I don't see how you could honestly think that religion being a useless placebo was the point Elenai was trying to make. I can see why you guys might want to construe his words to make it seem like that was what he intended to say, but what would that accomplish?

---

Now, if you would all be so kind as to let me answer the person who draws the right messages behind our words:

So, since either way the cold is going to go away anyways, religion's purpose is just to enjoy life a little more?

In religions complying to Elenai's metaphor, yes. But the implications of religions effects are not so simple as feeling better, as with the soup.

When you're sick, let's say the worst thing you can do is get grumpy and say harsh things. The soup quells your grumpiness.

Now let's carry over to life.

When you're living, let's say the worst thing you can do is get grumpy, or some other emotion in that vicinity, and kill someone. The religion quells your thirst for bloodshed.

 

[PurplePoot]

Mine tells how to get along. This is important because people can spend their whole lives trying to get along with other people, and fail miserably. Not necessarily at you, Scyth:

---

Hint: The answer is not agnosticism.

Last time I checked we don't go around ruining society because we aren't being threatened with eternal suffering.

Oh. I'm terribly sorry. I didn't know you actually believed in IPU.

Since when does believing in something make it more or less real?

You guys failed to comprehend the metaphor. Soup helps a cold. Religion helps a life. How they help is a detail irrelevant. I don't see how you could honestly think that religion being a useless placebo was the point Elenai was trying to make. I can see why you guys might want to construe his words to make it seem like that was what he intended to say, but what would that accomplish?

Everyone is in agreement he said it is to make you 'feel better'. Since it's pretty evident that evidence for religion's basis in reality is lacking at best, it is almost definitely a placebo.

When you're living, let's say the worst thing you can do is get grumpy, or some other emotion in that vicinity, and kill someone. The religion quells your thirst for bloodshed.

Unless they're an unbeliever...

 

[Aschy]

I find it interesting how "real" religions automatically get diplomatic immunity but everyone else is allowed to be criticized.

You can criticize my beliefs all you like you may have to do some arguing though.

You guys failed to comprehend the metaphor. Soup helps a cold. Religion helps a life. How they help is a detail irrelevant. I don't see how you could honestly think that religion being a useless placebo was the point Elenai was trying to make. I can see why you guys might want to construe his words to make it seem like that was what he intended to say, but what would that accomplish?

Do you understand the words that are coming out of Elenai's mouth!

Really guys its pretty simple just THINK, it would be the same if I said say you had a cut that would never heal so I have to keep replacing the band aid. The Band aid being God's love.

When you're living, let's say the worst thing you can do is get grumpy, or some other emotion in that vicinity, and kill someone. The religion quells your thirst for bloodshed.

This is a very good point. If we are just animal's why is killing wrong, like really why the not start a genocide when ever you feel like it? My dog for no reason other than that it is alive will murder small animals and leave it there is this wrong?

 

[PurplePoot]

This is a very good point. If we are just animal's why is killing wrong, like really why the not start a genocide when ever you feel like it? My dog for no reason other than that it is alive will murder small animals and leave it there is this wrong?

We have a drive as a species to survive. If we did not, you wouldn't be looking to religion to give you a reason to follow such morals.

 

[Aschy]

We have a drive as a species to survive. If we did not, you wouldn't be looking to religion to give you a reason to follow such morals.

Ic your point, but how is this drive manifested? Through fear of death? Or as a society that decided on this as a whole? An instinct perhaps?



And to anyone that is looking for just morals in religion is in totally the wrong place. Having a great moral stance is a side effect of following God's laws and getting closer to him as a friend/father/God.

 

[Elenai]

Everyone is in agreement he said it is to make you 'feel better'. Since it's pretty evident that evidence for religion's basis in reality is lacking at best, it is almost definitely a placebo.

But my dear friend...Just because soup helps you feel better, doesn't mean that the soup, or the person who gave it do you, is non-existent, nor does it mean that the processes upon which the soup was made or the spices within it are un-real.

 

[PurplePoot]

But my dear friend...Just because soup helps you feel better, doesn't mean that the soup, or the person who gave it do you, is non-existent, nor does it mean that the processes upon which the soup was made or the spices within it are un-real.

You're ignoring the half of that where I pointed out the almost complete lack of evidence, and the "evidence" which "exists" is rather contested at best.

Ic your point, but how is this drive manifested? Through fear of death? Or as a society that decided on this as a whole? An instinct perhaps?

Instinct.

And to anyone that is looking for just morals in religion is in totally the wrong place. Having a great moral stance is a side effect of following God's laws and getting closer to him as a friend/father/God.

And why do they want to do that after the lack of evidence for s/he/it's existence?

 

[Elenai]

You're ignoring the half of that where I pointed out the almost complete lack of evidence, and the "evidence" which "exists" is rather contested at best.

Twas but a reply to you saying that it is not grounded in reality, when I did not intend in the least, nor imply in my metaphor that it was not.

 

[Gausslander]

None of these metaphors really help in proving anything. We don't have to disprove your god because he isn't proven, for one thing; another being that you shouldn't be paying people for making you think that all guilt comes from religion, guilt is a human emotion, we all feel guilt!

 

[Ash]

How am I denouncing my religion by saying it helps people?

Because all you're saying is that it is a psuedo-temporary solution to life. Soup doesn't cure the flu, and it only makes you feel better till you sort it out for yourself.

You can't argue against your own arguement, Elenai

EDIT:

By saying it is only a temporary solution whose only purpose is to make you feel better. Otherwise you can get better by yourself, it just may be slower and more painful, but ultimately with the same results in the end. Soup doesn't keep you happy for the rest of your life. And if you eat the same soup every time you get sick, you may begin to find alternative methods to make yourself feel better.

QFT, +rep, all that jazz. Shame I didn't see it before I replied >_>

The massive, massive irony in this whole argument is that all the religion fags are openly saying that they know their religion is fake, but it helps support them through the troubles of real life. Interesting.

 

[Elenai]

None of these metaphors really help in proving anything. We don't have to disprove your god because he isn't proven, for one thing; another being that you shouldn't be paying people for making you think that all guilt comes from religion, guilt is a human emotion, we all feel guilt!

Never said guilt comes from religion, religion is what relieves guilt.

~Twas grace that taught my heart to fear, and grace my fears relieved.~

Because all you're saying is that it is a psuedo-temporary solution to life. Soup doesn't cure the flu, and it only makes you feel better till you sort it out for yourself.

Wrong. See Hakeem's reply for why you are.

The massive, massive irony in this whole argument is that all the religion fags are openly saying that they know their religion is fake, but it helps support them through the troubles of real life. Interesting.

Now that is just presumptuous, and downright rude.

We are not saying religion is fake at all. The soup exists, I'm holding a giant bowl of it in my hands right now. You are putting words in our mouths, words that never existed.

We at absolutely no point ever said "religion is a fake placebo to help us cope with life", we said it is an important piece of life that helps up get over our sick natures. I could have easily used 'medicine' instead of soup. Alas, soup was the first thing that came to mind.

Keep in mind, that soup isn't just for when you are sick. Soup can keep you from starving to death, freezing to death, dying of dehydration too.

You can't argue against your own arguement, Elenai

And you can't twist things into what they are clearly not meant to be.

By saying it is only a temporary solution whose only purpose is to make you feel better. Otherwise you can get better by yourself, it just may be slower and more painful, but ultimately with the same results in the end.

Or...you could just die of the cold because you didn't have help...

The feel good effect of the soup is temporary, but it is a long lasting temporal thing. The assurance that you won't be punished for being sick however, is an eternal contract. Which is the whole point of Christianity, aside from the soup that comes with the package.

Soup doesn't keep you happy for the rest of your life. And if you eat the same soup every time you get sick, you may begin to find alternative methods to make yourself feel better.

You missed the point entirely. Soup was only one example. Christianity offers 'soup', but it also offers assurance that you won't be docked of pay for missing work due to a cold.

The point of religion is to help you get over/feel better/blah blah blah, the things that make you sick in life. Just because I used a cold in my metaphor, doesn't mean that it is a tiny little thing you'll get over in a week. This cold could be pneumonia, with a touche of avian flu, and west nile virus all rolled into one. Afterall, people have many sicknesses riddled through their bodies. To add to the metaphor, waiting could kill you.

Or for a better metaphor...

The cold is the AIDS virus. The soup is now an effective treatment available to keep you from suffering and living painfully...but you will die sooner than you wished, it is inevitable. However....There is the man who offers assurance, that your life/health insurance won't be revoked due to the AIDS.

Religion isn't 'soup in real life lulz, I spilled a bowl of Judaism on some kids lap', it isn't something you eat and eat and get bored of, unless you are clearly doing it wrong, and have to want to lead a spiritual life anyway, of which...if you have no intentions of being closer to God, and letting him heal you then you have no business being in his presence in the first place, and the consequences of your choice to leave the room is your problem.

Religion is full of tools, and things to help you, it isn't some solid mass of stuff you consume until you flounder on it after two weeks. There is always something new to experience in faith. It is a 'soup that changes flavour'.

 

[Gilles]

Seems more like an argument about Elenai's metephores now. :\

 

[GrandEnder]

God would still probably look like a strobe light that would destroy anything seeing it, or look like a black mass that destroys anything that touches it. Of course, why would you need to touch god in the first place.

 

[TheDivineBoss]

Who is evil? A party hard dude with a tail and goatlegs, or a vague something in the clouds? We got the biggest mediaspin EVER here. The Christian propagandamachine said for thousands of years that Satan was evil, but it's actually the opposite. But look at the facts!

 

[Elenai]

And the devil has ruined how many lives in comparison to God? Billions...

As for that rather...idiotic statistic.

The executioner in justice, has killed more than the one who must be executed. The executioner is blameless for what he must do.

By sheer irony, most humans have killed far more, and yet we look to them as war heroes, shall we call them baby killers again and spit on them? I think not.

 

[qqluqq]

the only true god looks like this

 

[PurplePoot]

And the devil has ruined how many lives in comparison to God? Billions...

Because god tells him to.

The executioner in justice, has killed more than the one who must be executed. The executioner is blameless for what he must do.

By sheer irony, most humans have killed far more

Than 2 million people? Yeah, I do that when I'm bored.

--

I find it interesting that you find your god to be merciful while believing that you have to suck up to him to not be tortured for eternity. Yay!

 

[leet.firefox]

Because god tells him to.
!

When did this happen?

 

[PurplePoot]

When did this happen?

Because apparently you get sent to hell by god if he doesn't like you?

 

[leet.firefox]

So God told Satan to ruin peoples lives so God could not like them and send them to Hell?

 

[PurplePoot]

What? How did satan ruin peoples' lives?

And if you mean the eden thing, that was just god being a jealous and megalomaniacal jerk like usual in the OT.

 

[leet.firefox]

Elenai said the "and the devil has ruined how many lives compared to God? Billions.."
And you said "Because God tells him to."
And I asked when did that happen
And you said "Because apparently you get sent to hell by god if he doesn't like you?"

So you are saying God tells Satan to ruin peoples lives, and then he uses that as an excuse to send them to Hell.