• Listen to a special audio message from Bill Roper to the Hive Workshop community (Bill is a former Vice President of Blizzard Entertainment, Producer, Designer, Musician, Voice Actor) 🔗Click here to hear his message!
  • Read Evilhog's interview with Gregory Alper, the original composer of the music for WarCraft: Orcs & Humans 🔗Click here to read the full interview.

Warhammer: Eternal Strife (Melee)

Warhammer: Eternal Strife. Melee Map
By Nightmare
>Additional Melee maps
>Yet more custom maps - ladder ones
>Campaign (first 5 chapters)
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We have an active Discord! Arrange games, make suggestions, report bugs etc >>> discord.gg/uW34Y49


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Starting October 2024, the mod was added to 1v1 Warcraft 3 Champions ladder, marking one of the highest achievements of mods of such genera.

Season 2 of WH:ES League spanned July-September 2024, all info on it here. Stay tuned for the upcoming Season 3!

Map Info:
Warcraft III versions supported: 1.26 and later, including Reforged.
This is an Altered Melee map based on Warhammer Fantasy Battle universe (not to confuse with Warhammer40K universe). A 4-player Altered Melee map features 16 unique, fully-developed playable races: Skaven, Lizardmen, High Elves, Empire, Dwarfs, Warriors of Chaos, Orcs&Goblins, Dark Elves, Beastmen, Wood Elves, Vampire Counts, Ogre Kingodms, Daemons of Chaos, Tomb Kings, Bretonnia and Dogs of War. All 4 original Warcraft III races are intact and are also playable. If you are not familiar with WH universe - don't worry, just think of this map as another Fantasy, I'm sure you'll enjoy it nonetheless.
The custom races are analogous to Warcraft III original fractions: each race (normally) contains 4 unit-producing structures, 3-level townhall, item shop, 4 heroes, 10+ combat units, including spellcaters and siege units... all that good stuff! Type a command in chat to select a race.
There are no extra complicated instructions or additional files for "installing" this mod: it's a single map.


Key features:
It was of course challenging to implement Warhammer armies into Warcraft races, but overall I think I did well balancing the WH universe armies and War3 strategy mechanic. A few races ended up having more than regular 10-11 units, but thats a good thing, right? :)

The main feature of this altered melee is the specialisation system. I must admit I feel quite proud about coming up with the idea and implementing it.
Each race has 4 specialisations (called "doctrines", "paths", "guilds"... depending on the race, the idea is the same); the player can choose only one. For players who don't want to use the slight advantage granted by specialisations, they can be disabled (the instructions for that are given ingame). Specialisations give each hero a free item (a weak one), unlock new abilities and improve already existing ones, allow the training of new special units and upgrade the ordinary ones. All this is done through instant but pricey upgrades at townhalls: there are a total of 7 upgrades (1 at T1, 2 at T2 and 4 at T3). The last thing I want to note here is that even without specialisations the races are still fun and interesting (and probably more balanced, lol), but I of course suggest you try them out as they allow great difference in playstyles within a single fraction, making the gameplay much more exciting.
Now that I've talked about the good stuff, I feel it's time to mention a couple of minor downsides. Firstly, unfortunately, I've made no AI for the custom races yet (I plan to in the future, but not in the near future), so if you play alone vs PC, your opponents can only be original War3 races. Sorry for the big filesize and the long loading time (relevant for patsches 1.27 and earlier).

The map is open source. Feel free to look around it if you are interested. You may modify it all you want for personal use, just don't go around spreading it on other websites or at least give credit if you do (can't imagine someone doing that anyway, lol). Feel free to borrow anything from this map, from ideas to icons; no credit required if you do.

If you like my mod, make sure you check out my Campaign (first 5 missions) based on this altered melee. Quite honestly, the dream of making a huge badass campaign is precisely what drove me to do this mod for so long! One can even say that for me the campaign is primary, while the altered melee maps are only means to make it. Sadly, the campaign has been lying dormant for the last years, but I will return to it once I finish making all the races.

Additional information:

This might be one of the best altered melee maps I've ever played. - Grubby

I am very proud and happy to have the what is arguably the most successful mod of its genre in the history of Warcraft 3. Aside for being added to war3champions ladder (a huge achievement!), the reason I say this with confidence is that we have had a very prolific tournament life as of 2024. The community and I have organised two full seasons (all info here and here; vods are for example here and here), meaning 250 competitive games were played and counting. I am especially blessed to have some of the very best Warcraft 3 players compete, such as Dise, RazerMoon, Sheik, and many others.

Go to our Discord to signup for upcoming seasons and tournaments!
Season 1 of WH:ES League spanned Feb-July 2024!. I'm happy and honoured that over 200 competitive games were played! See this spreadsheet for extended results, replays, VODs.

The Races
See this thread for detailed description of each race! Pictures included.

The Map

This is just one of the maps, the 'main' one, if you will. The background map is set in summer. It is deliberately done quite big so it is easier for me to rework it in the future (make it for 8 player). Neutral buildings: There are a total of 12 gold mines, 4 mercenary camps, 4 merchants and 1 fountain of health. Creep camps: 12 red camps (including starting location ones), 16 orange camps, 8 green camps. There is only one land pass - in the middle. I acknowledge that it is somewhat unconventional; it is done for ease of exploration.
Looking for a different set-up? Make sure to check out >Additional custom Melee maps and >Ladder maps.
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Future Plans

As of summer 2024, we are having a very active tournament life, I'm proud to have hosted many cups and leagues. Over 250 competative games were played in the first half of 2024, with some of the very best Warcraft 3 players in the world (Dise, Airenikus, Razermoon) participating in tournaments. More to come! All details can be found here and
here.
Aside for tournaments, I plan to upload a big Campaign, for which there is a demo-version of five chapters.
You may be wondering, given the scope of the project, if I accept donations. As a matter of fact, I don't. The mod has always been and will always remain 100% non-commercial. This is my principled stance.

Read and ask about all the latest news and plans on our
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Discord.

Gameplay screenshots and videos:

See also: Race units gallery (September 2019).
See also: July 2017 architectural reform album.
Note: gameplay screenshots were made in 2014-16 and may feature outdated models.
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Change Log:

13-10-2024.
15-07-2024.
See this post for 2014-2024 changelogs.

Credits:

Key: Already Mentioned, More than 1 resource used.

Icons: Blizzard Entertainment, Static, DiscipleOfLife, Darkfang, Hellx-Magnus, Null, Sin'dorei300, Mr.Goblin, PeeKay, The_Silent, The Panda, Huinipachutli, Stanakin, kola, Eagle XI, Scias, 67chrome, Murlocologist, NFWar, Mc!, Zephyrius2412, Ceterai, CRAZYRUSSIAN,, BLazeKraze, oh_snap, bigapple90, Kimbo, sarumanthecursed, Deon, Horn, Apheraz Lucent, BLazeKraze, CloudWolf, Marcos DAB, Chucky, mikeisman2, olofmoleman, Dr.Death, protivogaznik, GooS, exN, D.ee, asdasdgfrw, BlackDoom, The_Gauntlet, lllLSDlll, Sun gate, zbc, chr2, r.ace613, Tenebrae, Midnighters, Mustang, Liomsi
.

Effects/missiles/attachments/etc: Infrisios, M_Exanimeб JetFangInferno, Mythic, Pyritie, Ergius, Grey Knight, JesusHipster, Daelin, s4nji,, Thrikodius, UgoUgo, biridius, Stan0033, CreatorD3292, gookywooky, TheWhiteWolf, Champara Bros, Kuhneghetz, doom_sheep, General Frank, Callahan, NewbieMapper, Lord_T, Jab1z, cotd333, HammerFist132, Blood Raven, Love Seeker, Metal_Sonic, Softmints, Direfury, KAIL333XZ, donut3.5, frostwhisper, Yours Truly.
Buildings: Ujimasa Hojo, Edge45, supertoinkz, Alok, bakr, DoomWolf.

MODELS SKV: Gluma, Mephestrial, Direfury, Kimberly, Kimbo, The Weird Human, Cavman, HerrDave
MODELS LIZ: Misha, Ujimasa Hojo, Hayate, AndrewOverload519, MasterHaosis, -Grendel, Doom Wolf, Zephyrius2412, Kehel, olofmoleman
MODELS HEL: Elenai, kangyun, Deolrin, Ilya Alaric, Rhapsodie, Ujimasa Hojo, HerrDave
MODELS WOC: Horn, Nagirya, takakenji, Grey Knight, Kuhneghetz, Ujimasa Hojo, General Frank, -Grendel, Sellenisko
MODELS EMP: Kitabatake, Kuhneghetz, Ujimasa Hojo, HerrDave, Wandering Soul, Tranquil, paulH, General Frank, CRIS, HappyTauren, DireFury, loktar, Ujimasa Hojo, Cuore, Tarrasque, A.R.
MODELS DWR: wingednosering, takakenji, Fuzzyfury, IamMclovin, Villagerino, Arch-archdemon, General Frank, Tranquil, Amaruak, Urkdrengi, TurieL, Ujimasa Hojo, DireFury, Em!, HerrDave, Mechanical Man, GreyArchon, Alpain
MODELS ORC: Ujimasa Hojo, Em!, oktar x2, johnwar, Stefan.K, Urkdrengi, Kuhneghetz, eubz, Nirvendor, Sunchips, Tauer, Cavman, Sellenisko, HerrDave, Callahan, Grey Knight, Just_Spectating, Mister_Haudrauf
MODELS DEL: A Void, gookywooky, Tranquil, ,Sellenisko, General Frank, Tarrasque, Sin'dorei300, Forsaken, Sunchips, Miseracord, Edge45, Uncle Fester
MODELS BOC: WyrWuulfe, NaserKingArthas/MN Lahmar, Sin'dorei300, Gluma, Uncle Fester, Bagysta&Zavorakto, Ujimasa Hojo
MODELS WEL: Red XIII, AndrewOverload519, Ujimasa Hojo, Lord_T
MODELS VAM: Cavman, Kuhneghetz, DireFury, Em!, PROXY, stein123, WhiteDeath, GUNNER, ironmaiden, BaiyuGalan, -Grendel, Mister_Haudrauf, HerrDave, Ujimasa Hojo,, Gottfrei, manasou
MODELS OGR: eubz, Wisdom, Mr Ogre man, borissuworov, AhhFreshWeeD, Hermit, NhazUl, Chriz, Hawkwing, Dionesiist, PROXY, Kitabatake, -Grendel, DireFury, Uncle Fester, Mr.Goblin, Sellenisko, Cavman, Zephyrius2412
MODELS DOC: FerSZ, Misha, icewolf055, ChevronSeven, -Grendel, Mephestrial, Ujimasa Hojo, MasterHaosis, Tranquil, Sellenisko, Hermit, AndrewOverload519, General Frank, Kuhneghetz, NaserKingArthas/MN Lahmar
MODELS TOK: Ujimasa Hojo, HappyTauren, Callahan, Edge45, -Grendel, Direfury, UncleFester, Mister_Haudrauf, supertoinkz, Sellenisko, Stefan.K, Seoki
MODELS BRT: Asssssvi, Mike, Mechanical Man, infrenus, The_Warchief, Pyramidhe@d, Ujimasa Hojo, Tranquil, HerrDave, Stefan.K, kangyun, AndrewOverload519, Direfury, Callahan.
MODELS DOW: Explobomb, HappyCockroach, MassiveMaster, Jiok, Mr. Bob, Bioautomaton, WhiteDeath, purparisien, The_Silent, Tarrasque, Villagerino, Arch-archdemon, HerrDave, Ujimasa Hojo, Mike, Em!, Uncle Fester, AndrewOverload519, Wandering Soul x2, PROXY, paulH, icewolf055, Callahan, Hayate, loktar, JesusHipster.

Special thanks:
  • Blizzard for the awesome Warcraft III game.
  • Games Workshop writers for creating the great Warhammer Fantasy universe. (All rights reserved to them!)
  • sarumanthecursed for invaluable support, criticism and playtesting during the early stages of the mod.
  • Diazon for help with modelling.
  • bawbz for the map transfer/update tool (I have once called him my 'favourite person on the internet' and I meant it).
  • DieBieneFranz, Inspired, Cement, Frostbitten and other active members of the community; our popularity exploded in early 2024 thanks in large part to them :)
  • This very website HiveWorkshop and Ralle in particular! Would've been nowhere without it.


Note: some screenshots may represent outdated versions.
If you have any questions, comments, suggestions or you find any bugs, please contact me here or anywhere else!
Feedback greatly appreciated. Thanks and have fun everyone!

Keywords: Warhammer, WH, WHES, Nightmare, Eternal Strife, melee, Elves, Dwarfs, Orcs, Goblins, Skaven, Chaos, Empire, Beasts, Beastmen, Wood Elves, Dark Elves, High Elves, Fantasy
Contents

Warhammer: Eternal Strife (Melee) (Map)

Reviews
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/members/stopcampingn00b/"]Moderator: StoPCampinGn00b Map approved with no rating as requested by the author. I checked off the list... and hey! All rules are followed. Map approved. If you do decide to change your...

Moderator

M

Moderator

[TD]
Moderator:
StoPCampinGn00b
Map approved with no rating as requested by the author. I checked off the list... and hey! All rules are followed. Map approved. If you do decide to change your mind in the future I can still rate it if I am not busy.
[/TD] [/TD][/tr]
 

Deleted member 237964

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Deleted member 237964

Last edited by a moderator:
Level 6
Joined
May 12, 2013
Messages
90
I played your map and personally... I loved it! The simple blend of melee with Warhammer fantasy universe is just amazing. The gameplay is nice, great amounts of custom units and every race has it's own unique gameplay. I have noticed you do have a couple of grammar issues in your tooltips, I suggest you to fix that.
Another small suggestion. I noticed upon reaching Tier 3 in the Empire you get 4 different upgrades at your Main building. Instead of being able to research them all, let players choose which upgrade the want, which would perhaps give you bonuses to certain units. Don't know if all the other races have 4 upgrades available too, if not then please ignore this.
Terrain isn't all bad, but could use some additional tweaks here and there. Building models are a bit odd for some races (Hole for example), you might wanna change that.
But overall, a simple and awesome altered melee map! Good luck in your future map-making! +rep
 
Level 18
Joined
Apr 5, 2011
Messages
342
3 downloads, 3 comments, wow, thanks a lot guys:thumbs_up:
@Admiral Proudmoore, no AI yet, sorry (says here in description, but hey, I don't blame you; I too hate reading walls of text:wink:). Will make one eventually, but it's not a top priority now...
@Doomguy80, ...priority now is indeed adding more races! Again as I've already written in description, I plan to keep making races until all 15 are done.
@Silverfox, spelling is not my strong side, I can screw up at times, I know :vw_sad: I'll try to improve. As for 4 upgrades at T3 hall - its the specialisation system (I actually wrote quite a bit about it in map info). All races have 4 specialisations, only one can be chosen; this unlocks 7 upgrades: one at T1, two at T2 and four at T3.

Many thanks everyone for the feedback, this is very much appreciated!!!
 

Deleted member 237964

D

Deleted member 237964

Sorry for the double post but i only want to add this: It's a map worth of downloading.I hope to see it approved and updated soon.Look for some warhamer models.There are few here that could help you with chaos and dwarf race.
 
Level 18
Joined
Apr 5, 2011
Messages
342
@Dat-C3, I have given that issue some thought; and I indeed plan, just as you suggested, to upload a limited version map that would weigh below 8mb. I've even already made a list of the custom models I would/wouldn't sacrifice. I shall upload such map once this one gets approved. But thanks for the suggestion anyway:thumbs_up:
 
Why would you sacrifice files when you don't have too? Local files is almost the same thing as that edited game.dll only difference being one official while the other is a hack, you just have to get people to do 3-4 simple tasks instead of waiting a hour for people to download a 20mb map. I didn't suggest a limited version, I suggested exactly what you have here.

Firstly you write the path for every import in object editor/trigger editor/etc. . . .

Foldername\File.mdx works If you allow local files and this means you can play like one GB maps on official Battle.net.
Secondly you have to get everyone to go to their registry and set AllowLocalFiles!! to 1 instead of 0 or you can ask them to download and a run a quickly/easily made JASS(yea wc3 can do it or any other language) .exe to do it for them.
Third would be them having to download your files so you would put them into a .zip or whatever achieve and upload it here in the first post under your map submission.
Fourth is them having to move the folder after extracting the files. They would move it to their main Wc3 directory.

This might look harder then the hacked .dll but it actually is easier for it allows a wider community as well Blizzard supports it because they put it in there themselves.
 
Level 18
Joined
Apr 5, 2011
Messages
342
Ok, I misunderstood you, apologies. I'll consider your suggestion, although the idea behind limited version was to remove any unnecessary actions, not to replace them with other ones, even be they easier. I don't think my map will lose that much without 10-15 models after all. Whereas downloading more files, be it .dll or .zip, may look to people like being too much of a hassle (I've actually never came across mappers who ask to do that). But once again, thanks for the suggestion.
 
It's more of a hassle for me and it should be for everyone to have to switch to a un-official sever and download and move the hacked .dll to exactly where you'd place the folder for local files. Only difference being you can already have the files required and don't have to re-download 8100kb+ maps every time the maker makes one extremely tiny change, my method is far better then Genin32's/Avoid. Download the required files once for every new/current version or continually download 10mb. . .

Though thanks for considering it, good luck with your map. Sadly I won't be playing it unless you do the LF support. Looked fun though.
 
Level 18
Joined
Apr 5, 2011
Messages
342
You have a good point, and it definitely looks like something worth implementing one day, but I'll leave it as it is just for now. I must admit I still like my 'limited version' solution a lot, even if people will have to redownload the ~6mb map (by the way, I probably won't be updating more often than 1-2 times per year). Anyway, I'll deal with all those problems once my map is finally approved and I no longer have 10 lousy downloads, lol.
Good like to you as well!
 
Level 32
Joined
Apr 2, 2013
Messages
3,956
Hi, I've played your map, experimenting around with a few races. It looks good, but a few things in your map description caught my eye. It is a really nice description though, I've read all of it ^_^

When you state AI isn't implemented YET and Dark Elves coming soon, that violates the no BETA rule. The reason why we don't accept betas is because it would mean more moderator rating changes. That is always a hassle. I do see you posted in map dev and got no luck, but maybe make a thread requesting testers so you do not have to compete with maps with attracting presentations.

Anyway, map set to await update. You can create a staff contact thread OR PM if I become a full moderator if you have fixed these problems :thumbs_up:
 
Last edited:
Level 18
Joined
Apr 5, 2011
Messages
342
Thanks for taking time to play my map.
I actually don't quite understand why it can't be approved as it is. Yes, I plan to update it in the future, but must this mean that it is unacceptable as it is now?

1. About AI - I am working on campaign now and I also planned to add 2 more races somewhat soon, so even if I decide to start working on an AI - it will be in no sooner than two years (so realistically it will be done in 3 or even 4 years). For now I can equivalently say that there will be no AI ever (I can imagine most people reading this now won't be sticking around with my map for 3-4 more years).
2. About Dark Elves - when I uploaded my map in mid-July, I haven't even begun making them. I made them in August-October (one can actually check my progression in the changelog). The Dark Elves are not 'coming soon' - they are out and completely playable.
What I was referring to by {coming soon} in races miniguide subsection is the forum-miniguide for Dark Elves, not the race itself (all previous miniguides I've written in July; Dark Elves were released later, that's why they have no miniguide in description yet).

However - and this is a crucial point for me - there ARE things that are "COMING SOON", such as:
a) Specialisations for Dark Elves. DELs, unlike 7 other custom races, have none yet.
b) AI, although I may change my mind and not make it at all. I talked about it already.
c) Most importantly: more races. I've written in Future Plans, I plan to make all 15 races, so 7 more are to come over the next several years.
Is (c) going to be a problem? Does this mean I can't get approved until I finish all and everything? This seems weird to me. I thought WIP meant something like 'incomplete in some way that would ruin gaming expirience' rather than 'will be updated, with some additions aside from simple bug/typos fixes, in the future'. Does this mean that if someone was making an AoS or a RPG with, say, 30 playable characters, they couldn't add several more later? Is DotA then a WIP by this standard? Isn't everything? ;)
I can see how moderators may suffer from maps being updated like that, and I can totally sympathise. However, I don't much care for ratings, I just want to get my map to people, so if I'm deprived of few points due to an 'early' review - no big loss for me... Is moderator's rating that crucial anyway? I often see maps approved without a rating. Can't I be assigned a rating at a later date (ideally, I admit, in a few years)?

I would be grateful if you clarify things for me, for right now I am a bit at a loss and don't quite understand what I should do to have my map approved and have no problems with it later.
Thanks again for your time.
 
Last edited:
Level 12
Joined
May 11, 2014
Messages
1,257
Great map , 8 new races . I didnt play Warhammer but i like this map , nice to play for fun or with your friends . Also how to you keep the original races intact ?
 
Level 18
Joined
Apr 5, 2011
Messages
342
Great map , 8 new races . I didnt play Warhammer but i like this map , nice to play for fun or with your friends . Also how to you keep the original races intact ?

I just made custom objects for everything (units, spells, upgrades etc).
If you want to play as an original race, type 'no' in the beginning.

Thanks for the positive comment! I'll keep working on this melee map, not to mention a whole campaign!
 
Level 32
Joined
Apr 2, 2013
Messages
3,956
Map approved with this review below. Again, great detailed reply regarding the no WIP rule. :thumbs_up:


[TD]
Moderator:
StoPCampinGn00b
Map approved with no rating as requested by the author. I checked off the list... and hey! All rules are followed. Map approved. If you do decide to change your mind in the future I can still rate it if I am not busy.
[/TD] [/TD][/tr]
 
Last edited:
How this map is over 10 mb in size is beyond me. Are you using some kind of custom music in it? Because it is really easy to re-record your music into mono 22050Hz and export it as, say, 128bit/s mp3. Those tracks are usually below 500kb in size.

Despite the size, i can't really see the warhammer element in it. You are using mostly ingame models, despite there being many, many custom models available for this theme (both on the hive and xgm.ru). The tileset reads too much warcraft and could easily have been replaced with something more appealing, had you been more effective with your file space. I can't comment on the gameplay as i haven't tested it yet, but the aesthetics just aren't there for me.
 
Level 18
Joined
Apr 5, 2011
Messages
342
How this map is over 10 mb in size is beyond me. Are you using some kind of custom music in it? Because it is really easy to re-record your music into mono 22050Hz and export it as, say, 128bit/s mp3. Those tracks are usually below 500kb in size.

Despite the size, i can't really see the warhammer element in it. You are using mostly ingame models, despite there being many, many custom models available for this theme (both on the hive and xgm.ru). The tileset reads too much warcraft and could easily have been replaced with something more appealing, had you been more effective with your file space. I can't comment on the gameplay as i haven't tested it yet, but the aesthetics just aren't there for me.

Thanks for the comment.

First of all, I of course do not use any custom music, and even if I did I would certainly made sure that its filesize is acceptable. I actually do use custom music in my campaign, and the fragment I used there I reduced to 80kbps (very easy to do through JetAudio - requires 2 clicks).

So, without a custom loading screen or music I still went well above 8mb. I acknowledge that this is a problem and I am truly sorry I couldn't have made it smaller - the price of sacrificing some models (and having even more default ingame ones) is too big for me. I use over 50 custom unit models and over 200 custom icons (+disbtn's); that's your answer where 10 mb arise.
If you have any suggestions about other models I can use - please, don't hesitate to point me to some, I would be wore than grateful if you do.

Terrain is indeed not the strongest side of my map - or at least I really hope so :xxd: However, even as it is now it is only marginally worse (if at all) than terrain in other War3 melee maps or, say, in DotA. That's good enough for me. At this point I definitely do not wish to invest time (nor map size for that matter) into making terrain more beautiful. I really, really hope that people will find the gameplay interesting enough to forgive my reluctance to dedicate time and effort to making eye-pleasing terrain.

Again, thanks for the comment. If you have any more suggestions/comments/questions - I would be glad to attend to them as well. Regardless whether you choose to play my map or not, good luck and have fun!
 
Hmm, you should try recompressing your icons. A compressed icon takes about 6kb in size, for you that would make 6*200 = 1200, and another 1200 for the disabled versions. As for the units, try running MDXSquish on some of them to make them compress better. It does not reduce quality. In World in Flames, i have 485 imported objects, yet the map is only 7.4mb in size. So you can make this a lot better.

As far as gameplay goes, the first advice i'd give is to not go overboard with spellcasters. A lot of people are too eager to put a lot of active abilities into their maps, but as a player this is mostly confusing and requires an awful lot of micro to use the units to their full potential. You should always be thinking: given the quantity that a player will have of this unit at any given time, will he be able to use all the spells available? A spellcaster is a supplemental unit and should only make up a small part of your army. Tier-1 units should NEVER have active abilities, unless it is something really basic that can be used in groups, like "defend". Also try to think about what role each unit should have - if it is a meat shield, crowd control, buffing unit, siege, etc - and make it all about that role.
 
Level 3
Joined
Apr 26, 2014
Messages
37
Hello, I think you should make the race choosing menu via dialog, it would be more convinient for players.
You reduce the map size if you will make textures' quality lower it is simple and won'y be noticed ingame.
 
Level 29
Joined
Apr 6, 2010
Messages
3,138
Dark Elves: the worker system might be in character, but it's just not working. Ressource collection is far too slow and needs to be checked periodically, maybe make it automated.

Storage costs are ridiculous (300 lumber? Really?) and the building is too large to be used as a lumber drop-off.

Both the Dreadhall's upgrades are called Battle Phase.

No basic ranged units.
 
Level 18
Joined
Apr 5, 2011
Messages
342
Dark Elves: the worker system might be in character, but it's just not working. Ressource collection is far too slow and needs to be checked periodically, maybe make it automated.

Storage costs are ridiculous (300 lumber? Really?) and the building is too large to be used as a lumber drop-off.

Both the Dreadhall's upgrades are called Battle Phase.

No basic ranged units.

Regarding slave labour. I know, it bothered me a lot, I had to do a lot of stuff to compensate for it, and I think I've done OK: free 750 gold (250 at start+250 each time you escalate to a new phase), cost-effective units, cheaper/faster research. Besides, only gold mining is hindered, lumber is quite the opposite, boosted by a lot. All in all, the only real problem with slaves is that they kill early-game flexibility: a player absolutely must rush Dreadhall in order to start building Elf Slaves asap; also having more that 2 slavemasters is very detrimental to early game as you desperately need those 11 (=15-2x2) food for Hero+3 Spearmen. Lastly, slaves do make DEL's micro-intensive, and thus somewhat annoying to play as; but that's not a bug, that's a feature! Each race is unique in its own way (or at least that's what I strive for).

Storage is used to store both gold and lumber, that's why it's so large and expensive. It's more of a townhall than a lumbermill (it is indeed the building that is targeted by TP scrolls). I admit, I also thought that 300 lumber might be too harsh, but in the end (i.e. after many playtests) decided that it is justified.

Battle Phase: thanks a lot for pointing out the tooltip oversight, the second one is War Phase. I fixed that right away (in my own map of course, not gonna update on hive for smth so minor).

Lastly, regarding ranged units: firstly, Reapers at T2 are meant to fulfill this role. Secondly, that is a common problem - Warriors of Chaos also have hardly any ranged units at all. It's one of those compromises I can not possibly avoid undertaking when trying to reconcile WH universe and War3 mechanics. In that particular case I felt the trade off was justified. My best alternative was to replace, say, Dreadspears with archers (DEL's don't use bows).


Thanks a lot for the comments everyone! All your feedback is very much appreciated!
 
Level 18
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Apr 5, 2011
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342
Hmm, maybe I will buff storage in next patch. At least I'll definitely consider it.

Of course I know they use crossbows (how could I not?!:vw_wtf:), I meant they don't use "bows-bows", like the ones War3 Night Elf Archers in use - coz that's the model I'd have to use if I wanted to make a basic D'Elven ranged unit.
 
Level 18
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Apr 5, 2011
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342
If Games-Workshop are fine with having no freaking balance whatsoever, then why shouldn't I be? :D

Jokes aside, I do think it's OK for DELs not to have a "basic ranged unit". If it were for them not having any ranged units at all - I'd be really concerned, trust me. But right now they have Reapers, so it's really OK in my mind. Once again, consider it as a feature, not as a bug. Not all races have to be the same. If I stop all variation, races will become more boring.
Thanks for the model, I haven't come across it.

PS: Btw, I like DoWI a lot, even tho its imbalanced as hell.
 
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Level 18
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Apr 5, 2011
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342
Skaven:
The workshop and temple are available at T1.
The Moulder hero's summon ability has a tooltip that reads 10 rats at level 1 instead of 6.
All the Mastery upgrades and units can be bought without needing to get the clan upgrade from the townhall.

Thanks for (still) showing interest in my mod!
Points 1 and 3 aren't actually bugs. Skavens have 4 equivalent barracks at T1, that's their feature. Clan upgrades at townhalls are specialisations (you can easily see that they are because of coloured tooltips), they do something completely different and are in no way related to Mastery upgrades at barracks (in fact they are: one T3 specialisation research improves the respected ability granted by Mastery).
Tooltip = fixed, thanks.
 
Level 18
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Apr 5, 2011
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342
Huge thanks to everyone reporting bugs/inconsistencies etc!

I think I will be taking a break from working on this melee map for now, and instead focus on Campaign. Expect the first 5 chapters of this campaign within the next ~3 month (or if you like, I can send you the first 4 chapters now). After I finish the 5th chapter, I plan to do Wood Elves for the melee.
 
Maybe someone already suggested that before, but you should definitly try to lower the map size so it can be playable on Bnet. For that, the most effective would be to lower the skins' quality. It s never enjoyable to do but the map would gain a lot from that.
An alternative way to reach the right size for multiplayer would be to make a second version dedicated to that in which you would remove a few factions (the most costly in skin/model imports preferably).
 
Level 9
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Jun 10, 2013
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473
also for the armor runes smiths last ability the text is missing and for the dark elf high sorceress heroes' lamehks dominion power it says she attempts to control their mind so perhaps add a 15% chance that it is successful and you control the unit, then a 30% on level 2 and a 45% on level 3 other wise its kind of dull...
 
Level 9
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Jun 10, 2013
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473
I just have some model suggestions

change the rat ogre model to this http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/models-530/rat-ogre-48893/ because it is a rat ogre and its just so cool

change the dark elf spearmen to this http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...an-104603/?prev=search=dark%20elf&d=list&r=20 because its kinda lame to have the same unit in 3 races

and change the wood elves archer hero to this http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...130940/?prev=search=archer&r=20&d=list&page=4 because she really looks like a wood elf archer while the other model is to regal and it just addS more uniqueness to the race

and well the map's already ove 8 mbs so adding those models will just make it cooler and people would still be able to play online using the tool in the description and just don't add the models to the 8 mb version

but please add them I find the only thing missing in this map is more differences between races aesthetically

plus I found a bug in the empire there farms upgrade reads hatch spiders this is when I choose the eco socialization
 
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