Age of Eternal Strife v. 1c

[Leak-]

Aw man Beast! Your map is really awesome and it sucks that you can't develop it right now. It's saddening to be honest ; wish I discovered this map earlier!

Anyways, just some feedback/questions/review points:
- I noticed there were some fun alternate spelling for some words. Was it purposely done so for 'circlet of fragulence'?

- Crystall Ball + Fairie wand recipe bug: Buying the fairie wand removes Crystal Ball from the game. Essentially you lose Crystall Ball once the Fairie Wand recipe enters your inventory.

- Is killing neutral creeps supposed to give bounty TWICE? It currently does :X

- Any possibility of incorporating popular starting items for agi/str heroes(slippers of agility/gauntlet of wrists) into recipes? i noticed that mantle of retrospect and fairy druid pouch(which is quite popular as a recipe component) are used! in other words, beginning str/agi items need some love!

- The tooltip for the Exoskeleton recipe in shop says +10 armor , +11 armor. Should it be +11 damage and +10 armor?

- Hero model sizes are small. They are comparable in size to creeps. They should be larger so they are more 'hero-like'. It's also easier on the players

- Potion of Reflection: I guess I'm uber-biased since the main AoS map I've played is DotA, but this item provides too much power for too little cost. It makes initiation of spells/team-battles and saving self/allies incredibly easy. Unfairly so!

- I really like bounty system you implemented. It reduces the unnecessariness of last-hitting. It's definitely still beneficial to last-hit, but not has needed as it is in DotA

If it's not too complicated to answer, how does the bounty system exactly work? Like in relation to the variable amount of damage dealt, how much gold is rewarded when creep is killed when not last-hit, and the decreases of bonus bounty over time? I'm very VERY curious!! And I noticed that spell damage doesn't give bonus gold from a creep if you don't last-hit it; is this intended?

- About the morale system: Yes! adding another dimension of gameplay by including the possibility of increasing creep power is great - nice thinking! It's good that it's optional though, since some players may think of it as a distraction.

- I thought the show spell name command was pretty neat - being accurately able to see every spell that is casted is definitely helpful in the midst of battle. although there is the possibility of visual overflow , with all the crazy spell effects and words flying around! good optional command though.

- The terrain is really really neat! Caves seem cool too.

- I'm surprised there's no method to checking your creeps stats(creep kills and denies). Any particular reason the implementation of this was avoided?

- I dont think I'm qualified to review about the hero abilities and items, since I haven't had the opportunity to play AoES with other people yet. But I like them so far from the single player testing/playing I have done(especially each hero having an automatic active or passive spell)! If I do get to play this map with other people though, I will definitely review and give feedback to you. Even though you said you won't be able to work on the map for now, I still believe there is a chance that in the future you can

 

[Beast(TrOg)]

- I noticed there were some fun alternate spelling for some words. Was it purposely done so for 'circlet of fragulence'?

Hopefully they were on purpose!

- Crystall Ball + Fairie wand recipe bug: Buying the fairie wand removes Crystal Ball from the game. Essentially you lose Crystall Ball once the Fairie Wand recipe enters your inventory.

Thanks.

- Is killing neutral creeps supposed to give bounty TWICE? It currently does :X

It was there to help indicate that neutrals give more gold than killing the regular spawning creeps. The bonus gold from killing the neutrals is constant (only the last-hitter gets the bonus). They give more gold because they are often harder to kill and deal more damage (ie they attack you instead of you letting the team forces take the hits). Additionally, the bonus gold you can get from them is higher than the lane units -- you can get higher bonus gold from units that are harder to kill.

- Any possibility of incorporating popular starting items for agi/str heroes(slippers of agility/gauntlet of wrists) into recipes? i noticed that mantle of retrospect and fairy druid pouch(which is quite popular as a recipe component) are used! in other words, beginning str/agi items need some love!

Actually, I was thinking about removing recipes from the game completely. The items will still be there, but you will not need to buy 3 other items just for the one item. This way, it will be more noob-friendly; plus, it will be easier to keep track of what items do what. And yes, I should add beginning items.

- The tooltip for the Exoskeleton recipe in shop says +10 armor , +11 armor. Should it be +11 damage and +10 armor?

Thanks.

- Hero model sizes are small. They are comparable in size to creeps. They should be larger so they are more 'hero-like'. It's also easier on the players

I've had that suggestion before, but never made the heroes larger; I guess I'm not too strict when it comes to macho-ism.

- Potion of Reflection: this item provides too much power for too little cost. It makes initiation of spells/team-battles and saving self/allies incredibly easy. Unfairly so!

I'll see what I can do.

If it's not too complicated to answer, how does the bounty system exactly work? Like in relation to the variable amount of damage dealt, how much gold is rewarded when creep is killed when not last-hit, and the decreases of bonus bounty over time? I'm very VERY curious!! And I noticed that spell damage doesn't give bonus gold from a creep if you don't last-hit it; is this intended?

Hm. Spell damage should give bonus gold (at least if the damage was large enough).
This is how the bounty system works (my numbers may be rough estimates):
When you damage a unit by 100, the bonus gold you will get when that unit dies within a second is something like 10 gold (I'm not sure about this number, I'm making it up). Over time, the potential bonus gold goes down (so killing a unit fast means slightly more gold). If you deal another 100 damage 2 seconds later, the potential bonus gold is now 10-X+10 (initial bonus - how much it got lower over time + the additional damage). I think the bonus decreases by 1 every second. So if you initially deal 100 damage and the unit dies 11 seconds later, you don't get any bonus. The bonus is maxed at around 15 I think (about half of what you would get if you last-hit I think). Hope that answered your question.

- The terrain is really really neat! Caves seem cool too.

A different opinion than me apparently. The main reason I've originally taken so long to update the map was to redo the whole terrain (although I'm not good at terraining).

- I'm surprised there's no method to checking your creeps stats(creep kills and denies). Any particular reason the implementation of this was avoided? There will be certain heroes that are far better at killing creeps.

I didn't think it was that important.

Sorry if my answers were kind of...nonspecific. I haven't worked on the map recently so I don't know the numbers off the top of my head.

 

[Leak-]

Thank you for the explanations.

What do you think of adding a basic TP scroll? It will help a lot to carry these when you need to get back to base FAST to defend against massive pushes to your base from other lanes. Also useful to get back fast for heal or buying items whatnot. I know there is the Boots of Far Far Away, but that's a pretty massive investment! I understand that in making this map, you are trying not to mimic dota. but there are some elements from DotA that were actually taken from the original Wc3(so implementing some of them would only be natural):
Like the Scroll of Town Portal: http://classic.battle.net/war3/basics/heroitemsconsumed.shtml#scrolloftownportal

About the circulet of fragulence: I just read the tooltip, it makes sense now haha.

About the creep stats: Sorry, I just realized there is actually one. I missed it initally - it's on the bar where the quantity of gold received is displayed (to the right of the wood icon). I guess why I initially missed it was because there was no -cs command or display on the multiboard.

About the terrain: Overall, the terrain seems smooth/easy to learn and apt as an AoS terrain; lots of juke spots, it seems like! I guess a point I want to mention right now is that the trees are distracting. The top of the trees have too large of area, and sometimes block the sight of the hero from the player controlling said hero. It's an unncessary blockage of sight, really. There is the possiblity that these trees are so large is so more juking situations are possible, but I think there are better of ways going about implementing that. It would probably be an incredibly ridiculous amount of work to re-do all those trees, but there are some specific areas that could use perception improvements.

The best way to show what I mean is through screenshots. These screenshots are limited, but are just to show by example. There are some instances that, without the seeing the health bar, you can't see where your hero is due to the trees blocking! The blockage also affects proper neutral creep sight. All this blockage of sight could be especially troublesome to players in midst of a battle in the jungle, due to the fact that they can't properly see their own heroes or enemy heroes.

 

[Leak-]

There is an issue with units getting suck at a certain area if they are knocked back there. this situation most possibly could be extended to other areas with cliffs or other verticle edges where units can be knocked off of.

1st screenshot just depicts area where the dark ranger is stuck. the rest of the screenshots show dark ranger stuck in that unpassable area but able to be attacked by enemy units. the knock back was caused by blood knight's shield repel.

 

[Leak-]

One problem that may be preventing Pitlord from functioning properly on Macs is his hero ability icons/icon paths. the problems in these icons/pathes may cause a fatal error when they should be displayed (which explains why AoES crashes Macs when you try to research Pitlord's abilities). One potential solution is changing icons.

 

[Beast(TrOg)]

Thanks Leak-. I'm currently working on the map again, so I'll try to address some of the things you are mentioning. I can't give a specific date, but I can probably release a new version in some weeks.

 

[Conlan]

You're working on this again? Great!

 

[Leak-]

Thanks Leak-. I'm currently working on the map again, so I'll try to address some of the things you are mentioning. I can't give a specific date, but I can probably release a new version in some weeks.

This is absolutely fantastic news!

 

[Leak-]

How's the map coming along?

I did a little bit more research about problem of fatal errors on mac warcraft 3 by looking at how the custom map Battle Tanks solved this issue: possible cause that may lead macs to crash is importing .blp textures.

 

[Beast(TrOg)]

I've currently changed/fixed a ton (literally a ton) of things since the last version, but I still need to finish some things (the game won't work well otherwise). I won't have much time to work on it this week since I have finals and a project to do. The upcoming version seems to be focusing on fixes, changes, and balance. Nothing much is added.

 

[Leak-]

I've currently changed/fixed a ton (literally a ton) of things since the last version, but I still need to finish some things (the game won't work well otherwise). I won't have much time to work on it this week since I have finals and a project to do. The upcoming version seems to be focusing on fixes, changes, and balance. Nothing much is added.

Nice! So how do these changes compare to that of the v0.83 mega update?

I agree with you that it's more important to address balance issues and fix bugs before adding more gameplay content for the next version. Having said that, I still think AoES has a lot of room for improvement in items.

One game-mode suggestion that popped into my mind:

• So the current modes are -AP, -AR and -TR. What about implementing a -TP (teampick) mode, where players can only pick from their faction's taverns. This improves the consistency of the possible modes, given the current ones (AP is to AR as TP is to TR).

 

[Beast(TrOg)]

Well, by default teams can only select from their faction's taverns. If you don't type AP, TR, or AR, it'll be "TP/default".

The amount of changes as of right now is about 3 times as many than the latest "mega update". Some of the changes are much more dramatic also, possibly altering gameplay (hopefully for the better).

I'm currently fixing some items, so some items will be changed in the process. But I'm going to release the upcoming version, then do work primarily for items in the version after that.

 

[Acutesharpness]

I will give just a small comment and wish to vote later when it is stablized. This map is well made but the default ability makes it interesting. However the heroes are not very well packaged, example, the hero icons, the spell effects are too common. Although some new ideas are added for the spells but more combinations will be good.

Other than that, I think your camera is too far, either that or the units should not be that small. Continue to work on it, I know it's not easy but one day I will review it again

 

[Leak-]

Other than that, I think your camera is too far, either that or the units should not be that small.

This is a definitely a point that should be taken into consideration. Personally, it's uncomfortable as a player to control such a small hero in such a grand-scale map. Also, many trees in the map just block proper sight of heroes when the heroes are under them - this makes it hard to tell what's going on if battles occur in those blocked areas.

 

[Leak-]

Beast! Ah, want to see how the map is coming along!

No hurry though, just super-curious to see all the new changes.

 

[Beast(TrOg)]

Sorry Leak-. I was planning to get the update complete by the end of today. But I'll be away for the next 2-3 days. So the update will be coming in 3-6 days.

Until then, here's some of the changes you'll see:
- tower AI: towers no longer prefer attacking the closest unit now. Towers will prefer attacking regular units. Towers will attack heroes if: 1) you are low on health or 2) you harm an enemy hero (lasts for a while -- so if you hurt an enemy hero, then go within range of tower, the tower will prioritize you).
- terrain makeover
- "recipe" items are no longer recipe items. You just buy them like normal items. They're more costly, but are stronger in the long run.
- bounty assist is easier to gain now (earlier, what was received was much lower than intended -- dealing 100 damage only gave about 6 assist gold).
- changed buyback system: less costly, but limited on how often you are able to use it

 

[Leak-]

Ah, mostly gameplay changes like you mentioned earlier.

On a different note, you also said you will be working on items changes after this upcoming version. Are you open to item suggestions? If you are, any specific item concept types you are looking for? I can give some recommendations of item concepts if you give me some basis of what they should do.

 

[Ronald6699]

This map looks good but 7/10

 

[Conlan]

""- "recipe" items are no longer recipe items. You just buy them like normal items. They're more costly, but are stronger in the long run.""

Hmm. The good thing about recipe system was that you keep your hero upgraded with basic items till you get the superior item. But now, won't we become weak till we earn all that money required to get the recipe item?

 

[Beast(TrOg)]

Updated to v. 0.97A
My plan: There will be three more major versions and possibly smaller ones in between. Version .98 will focus on items. Version .99 will focus on heroes. Version 1.00 will focus on polishing. Then bugfixing if necessary.

long rambling that may not make sense:
Conlan,
I see your point. But as is, the map doesn't have many beginning/end game items anyways. Here's my thought process: the recipe system makes the game more complicated than it should be for beginners. I have seen many games where I did not know what to do simply because I wanted a powerful item, but spent half the game just looking for the components to make the recipe. What I want to do is keep basic items basic, and powerful items powerful. That way, players may choose to save more money early on to invest later, but running a larger risk. The thing I did not like about the recipe system was that you were always limited in your item choices. If you wanted a beginning armor item for survivability, fine. But you may be reluctant to spend 500g on an item you would just sell later...unless of course if its the exact item you would need to make a recipe item. So what I'm saying it, the recipe system provides an incentive for players to select certain items in order to produce a stronger items. Rather, I want players to select basic items in order to survive the early stages of the game using whatever items are necessary. Then, once players find it easier to gain gold, they can save for more powerful items.
There are many other things I can say as to why I don't like the recipe system (also, as to why I do like the recipe system), but I chose to remove it. I'll see how it goes.

 

[Leak-]

First off, awesome work! Going to take my time to read the changelog in-depth.

Some brief testing/opinions. Will make more posts later after I've gone through changelog more.

The game still freezes when I try to research Pitlord's abilities(since I play on a Mac). What makes Pitlord's type of icons different from that of other heroes?

Debug text is still showing up(when you attack a unit/building, click on igloo, etc). Also, you can't pick up rune with a full inventory - is this intended?
Check attached screenshots.

Personally, I find the yellow color for the trees on the mini-map a little off. The color just doesn't seem appropriate to show trees.

 

[Beast(TrOg)]

Leak-,
Slight update to the map based on your suggestions. I am temporarily changing Pitlord's ability icons to some regular WC icons. This will show me if the causes of the problem truly are the icons.

Debug text (should) be removed.

Agreed on the color of the trees. For the update, they are reddish. I will try to find a more suitable color later. For now, I think red will suffice (does not blend in with terrain too much but doesn't make the minimap appear too ugly).

Yes, it is intended to not be able to pick up a rune with a full inventory (really, this was the whole point of me making them carried items instead of buffing items). This way, if players would like to gain the benefits of runes, they must risk having an open inventory at times. This also means that players not using runes will be able to have 1 more item than rune users. It was meant to balance gameplay.

 

[Leak-]

NICE! The new icons work - Wc3 doesn't crash anymore when I open up Pitlord's Hero Abilities.

 

[Leak-]

Several notes and questions:

• Fairie Wand: When the mana flare wand is summoned, it has 241 starting HP, out of 400. Also, not sure if you intentionally spelled it Fairie instead of Faerie.
• Why is there a wood icon? Maybe some other useful statistic can replace it!
• [- item follow range: 1000 -> 350]. What does this mean?
• [- Dagger of Escape modified. Low cost, low blink range]. Is there any other reasoning for such a low blink range, other than just a low cost?
• How about adding single player command that refreshes the cooldown of all your hero's abilities? Useful for testing abilities.
• In the F-9 tab under the section Game Mode Commands, the subsection Random Commands is empty.
• Demigod Stone tooltip: "transfered between" should be "transferred among".
• Ironwood Tree Branch and Circlet of Fragulence: should it be + X to all stats?
• [ - attacking own creeps allowed at 45% hp -> 85%] What gameplay effects did you hope to achieve by increasing the threshold HP of creep deniability? I'm curious!
• More debug text: happened when Bulge used Grapple of Pain against some neutral creeps. Check attached screenshot.

 

[Beast(TrOg)]

Fairie Wand: When the mana flare wand is summoned, it has 241 starting HP, out of 400.

That's a product of my slight laziness. The item gets upgraded as you kill enemy heroes. When it's upgraded, the ward starts off with more HP, up to the max of 400. I didn't want to create a new unit for each upgrade, so that's why that is done .

[*]Why is there a wood icon? Maybe some other useful statistic can replace it!

I already have a plan for what lumber will be used for...if I can find fitting unit models (I'll leave it at that).

[*] [- item follow range: 1000 -> 350]. What does this mean?

Whenever you attempt to grab an item when you have a full inventory, you'll notice that your unit still approaches the item up to a range. The range at where the unit stops is now 350.

[*] [- Dagger of Escape modified. Low cost, low blink range]. Is there any other reasoning for such a low blink range, other than just a low cost?

This was meant to kind of balance the game more, in some situations. The range may be slightly increased later. The reason for the low range was so that units were not able to blink two cliffs away, and making the blink not be an instant get-away.

[*]How about adding single player command that refreshes the cooldown of all your hero's abilities? Useful for testing abilities.

I can add it, but note that the spells are not meant to have more than one instance running at once (due to my laziness).

[*]Ironwood Tree Branch and Circlet of Fragulence: should it be + X to all stats?

I was assuming that "to all" could be inferred.

[*][ - attacking own creeps allowed at 45% hp -> 85%] What gameplay effects did you hope to achieve by increasing the threshold HP of creep deniability? I'm curious!

Not sure why I did that myself. I think I might changed that back, or even lower it.

Sidenote: You're so thorough! Also note that some of the things in the changelog may contain excess information. (ie, I may have tried balancing a spell, thus some balance was mentioned, but then later the spell was replaced so a change was mentioned)

 

[Leak-]

* trees are displayed as blue on minimap
* modified colors for trees and various other doodads
Superb visual changes. Looks great!

* Circle of Power can no longer use Chew Potion
Circle of Power can use Scroll of Disappearance and Boots of Far Far Away to successfully teleport to units/buildings.

Lion's Ring: should say +20 damage instead of +20 dmage

Amulet of Spell Shielding: The "- +12 Intelligence" component isn't properly aligned with the other components.

Demigod Stone: transfered -> transferred.

Potion of Reflection: Should casting spells dispel the invisibility granted from this Potion? Currently, it does not.

* added notes to Tome of Degrading Wisdom about max hero level and stock refresh rate
This reminds me: It's still possible to learn all of a hero's 4 primary abilities though, just not possible to get all these primary abilities AND the levels of stats right? Are there any situations where players would prefer to level up stats in favor over the primary abilities?
---

Do you think there is a possibility that the removal of recipes makes the old build-up component basic items defunct? What motivation will players have to even buy them? By removing recipes, I think it creates a mentality within the players to only save up for the big items. Sure it makes the game less-reliant on items, but it also inadvertently reduces the usage of lower tiered items(will players really buy a fridert bracer or a pendant of manas in actual gameplay? seems unlikely, considering the meager benefits. why not just save up for the better items instead?). Players could also be less willing to take risks with ganks and team-fights, since they would rather play it safe to save up more gold for the better items.

I think some items, like the lower-tier items(those in the peasant crafts, for example), should incorporate recipes that include the most basic items(items in the moonlight store). This gives the players at least the option for items that can both be built over time and the ability to reap the benefits of those items before the recipe item is fully completed.

 

[Ray1407]

well i have a problem with this map cause everytime i host it or if my friends host it all others get kicked before they can pick a hero
sry for my bad english

 

[Conlan]

Man, the Javelin Master has a woman voice set =)

 

[Beast(TrOg)]

well i have a problem with this map cause everytime i host it or if my friends host it all others get kicked before they can pick a hero
sry for my bad english

Hm. Can you tell me the exact time they get kicked? Do they all get kicked at the same time, one at a time, etc.? Maybe a screenshot will help me.

Man, the Javelin Master has a woman voice set =)

Can't men have feminine voices as well? (I never check unit sounds btw...bad habit)

Potion of Reflection: Should casting spells dispel the invisibility granted from this Potion? Currently, it does not.

If you cast abilities before you actually fade, the invisibility will not be disrupted. A similar effect/issue is seen when grabbing the invisibility rune in DotA.

* added notes to Tome of Degrading Wisdom about max hero level and stock refresh rate
This reminds me: It's still possible to learn all of a hero's 4 primary abilities though, just not possible to get all these primary abilities AND the levels of stats right? Are there any situations where players would prefer to level up stats in favor over the primary abilities?

You're correct about what abilities you are able to level up. Currently, I suppose there is not much incentive to skip 3 levels of the primary abilities. I am planning to make the stats improve the hero's innate ability for every 2 levels (lv 2, 4, 6).

Do you think there is a possibility that the removal of recipes makes the old build-up component basic items defunct? What motivation will players have to even buy them? By removing recipes, I think it creates a mentality within the players to only save up for the big items. Sure it makes the game less-reliant on items, but it also inadvertently reduces the usage of lower tiered items(will players really buy a fridert bracer or a pendant of manas in actual gameplay? seems unlikely, considering the meager benefits. why not just save up for the better items instead?). Players could also be less willing to take risks with ganks and team-fights, since they would rather play it safe to save up more gold for the better items.

I think some items, like the lower-tier items(those in the peasant crafts, for example), should incorporate recipes that include the most basic items(items in the moonlight store). This gives the players at least the option for items that can both be built over time and the ability to reap the benefits of those items before the recipe item is fully completed.

This is what I am trying to do right now: Sure the higher-tier items are stronger, but they will not give "more bang for the buck." That is, the high-tier items cost more than and will be weaker than 3 or 4 low-tier items. The main advantage received from obtaining higher-tier items will be that less inventory space is used, thus leaving room for more items. So, a player can save a lot of money for 1 item, but just obtaining the high-tier item does not mean he/she will be better off...only that the hero has more open inventory slots. The players that do mass low-tier items will need to sell the items later, so they'll lose some gold still.

Sidenote: Oh, all these problems, when will I be able to work on items

 

[Ray1407]

they all get kicked at the same time just before you can pick a hero or can choose any gamemode.

 

[Leak-]

they all get kicked at the same time just before you can pick a hero or can choose any gamemode.

I have this issue as well. When I'm trying to test this game with 2 computers (both macs, which may be the problem..) over LAN, the game desyncs and disconnects a player at the beginning of the game before or when you type in the game-mode.

 

[Ray1407]

well i dont have a mac i use windows xp service pack 3 so i dont know. it seems to be the problem of the map cause i dont have this issue on other maps

 

[Conlan]

Once, i had that disconnect problem on one of my maps. It's kind a stupid bug of the world editor. I deleted a single trigger action and it never happened again. I can't remember but i think it was a "selection" trigger or something...
Beast(TrOg), try deleting the trigger action which selects Altar at the beginning of the map.

Edit: Btw, Runed Gauntlet's activated mode seems a lot better than its original form. You may want to increase it's original form's stats or nerf it's "cursed" form. Also add description like "-Use: ....."
Edit: Also Ranger's switch position ability with Linked Hawk should have a cast time and a cooldown else it will be very imba i think.

 

[Beast(TrOg)]

Update: .97D2
Fixes the WC3 crash (hopefully).

Conlan, I haven't tried to see if the selection causes the problem. I doubt it is though, since the crash seemed to be after 2 seconds or so, but not when the altars were selected.

I'll see what I can do about your suggestions.

 

[Leak-]

• If you use Will of the Vulture near many units, the numbers that show the amount healed will be overlapping; makes it difficult to discern what the numbers are. See screenshot.
• Ra'Fewn tooltip: Should the tooltip mention exactly what the bonus is?
• What's the AOE for Dark Ranger's Death Trap? It could be useful to players(checking if activating it will not only trap enemy, but also not trap self for example) if the Death Trap had a thin circular visual line around, depicting its AOE circumference.
• Is it intended that Elven Elementalist's Crushing Wave deals damage to buildings? Currently, it appears like it does.
• What is the general AI for the catapult creeps(glaive thrower/infernal juggernaut)? It always seems that they target nearby human players! Also, it seems that there is no creep aggression if your hero attacks an enemy hero with enemy creeps nearby; is this accurate?

It dawned upon me that when newcomers play this game(or any AoS map for that matter) for the first time and are reading what the heroes' abilities, it may be troubling on how to decide what hero to play just based primarily on model/primary attribute/range. I think it would be extremely helpful to them if the hero tooltips at the hero altars briefly introduced what the abilities actually did. What do you think?

 

[Beast(TrOg)]

• What is the general AI for the catapult creeps(glaive thrower/infernal juggernaut)? It always seems that they target nearby human players! Also, it seems that there is no creep aggression if your hero attacks an enemy hero with enemy creeps nearby; is this accurate?

The siege and regular units use the normal WC3 AI. I did not customize it any bit. I have also noticed that the siege tanks tend to attack heroes often. I currently do not see why they do. The only AI related to the tanks was to make them attack towers if they are in range. The reason I have not yet made AI for creeps is simply the mechanics would be quite complex (and potentially cause lag), at least from the way I see it right now. I would also like for creeps to defend their heroes...but I think I'll leave adding this feature until the polishing stage.

I think it would be extremely helpful to them if the hero tooltips at the hero altars briefly introduced what the abilities actually did. What do you think?

Sure.

Btw, I won't be updating the map for a while since I believe the map is somewhat stable enough now to finally start working on items.

 

[Leak-]

I would also like for creeps to defend their heroes.

Is that creep aggression? Like when enemy heroes attack an allied heroes, nearby allied creeps will go attack those enemy heroes? It's definitely a balancing feature, when considering ranged versus melee hero harass during the lane-ing stage.

 

[Eldubs]

downloading.

 

[Leak-]

I have been playtesting with Nimsel (Ranger) fairly often(even had the opportunity to play a 2v2 with her online!), so I thought I share some of my thoughts and experiences of her as a hero.

She's really fragile!

Abilities:

• Linked Hawk: An exceptionally devised ability, useful as both an initiation spell as well as an escape spell. It's utility is especially high, given the mindtricks in position switching that is possible with this spell against enemies.
  • Currently, she can effortlessly escape ganks and will be essentially impossible to kill without chain stuns. This extremely high difficultly to take her down is further magnified by the fact that the crow can fly away, giving her further opportunity to escape even farther away. A useful change would be to implementing a cooldown between swaps. This will reduce the possible scenarios of abuse by swapping back and forth instantly while still retaining the innate escape/initiate ability of this spell.
    
• Slow: A simple AOE slow, with an added bonus of AOE blind as well. Useful for ganking as well as escaping.
• Triple Shot: Another nice ability that is a great farming tool against stacked creeps. Has a minor skill requisite for aiming, but I think that's a good thing.
  • Damage - 750 damage(assuming level 4 and all 3 arrows hit) is pretty high for one spell. Given your team can properly stun a hero, Triple Shot can pretty much decimate a single target enemy easily beginning to mid game. A modest reduction in this damage would be completely fair. The ease with which is can destroy clumped groups of creeps is a little high as well.
• Trueshot: A useful passive-spell during the lane-ing stage. Immensely helps last-hitting as well as increasing harass damage/power. Very balanced skill, given it's low duration as well as minor agility bonus/kill. It's damage and attack speed enhancement is especially useful when defending or pushing against a large group of creeps (triple shot a large number of creeps, then get a massive boost in power from Trueshot!)
• Last Sight: A normal DPS booster that is also useful for interrupting channeling spells. Good synergy with this spell, since the bonus attack speed it gives makes it possible for more ministuns as well as more damage.

Visuals

• Does Nimsel need that blue aura visual? Not only does she not have any aura, it also hinders the clarity with which other auras on her can be seen (through holding aura items). Is this really needed?
• It would be cool to see some kind of visual or animation when Nimsel activates Last Sight. Maybe different type of arrows fired? Or a unique casting animation?

 

[Beast(TrOg)]

Update: .97E
Several changes...some taking lots of time. However, the version contains some temporary things. I have disabled some items (may change/rebalance them) and units don't actually gain bonuses from upgrades for now (although the messages are still there).

Also, Nimsel doesn't need that aura, but it was there just to indicate that she learned her passive. I'll come up with a better visual soon.

 

[Leak-]

These are splendid changes! Awesome work!

My favorite change for this version so far is the hero tooltips at the selection altars; those descriptions will be very helpful to first-timers playing this map. I'm also liking a lot of the creep/hero balance changes as well! I will try to give more feedback to you on those once I play or playtest some games!

Some questions/concerns:
* Dagger of Escape: increased activation range to 2000 from 1600
Is activation range same thing as cast range? The tooltip says the cast range is 2000.

* increased the size of many heroes
an unintended effect of this is that heroes are able to block creeps easier. while i fully support this change, i still wanted you to know just in case.

-repick debug text
check the attached screenshot.

starting gold: Why is it so low now? 525-100 = 425 starting. Potions are usually necessary: got to choose among the 195 gold items now(stats, damage, HP/mana)?

watcher wardz: I've been thinking, what are some optimal places to plant them? Igloos? Runes? (when i place on a hill nearby the rune, the vision from the ward is always blocked) Can't find any other useful high ledge areas where the vision is wide; any ideas?

Is it intended that Bulge's Rot harms himself through magic immunity(immunity provided through amulet of spell shield)

Visual suggestion: What do you think about the Scourge having different ground textures from that of the Blood Elves for their shops?

If you buy items that have a visual aura (without the hero being near the shop from which it is bought), the circle of power carrying that item gets the visual auras. Check screenshot.

Sometimes after killing a unit affected by Soul Burn, the Soul Burn visual animation still lasts a little bit after the unit has died.

 

[Beast(TrOg)]

* Dagger of Escape: increased activation range to 2000 from 1600
Is activation range same thing as cast range? The tooltip says the cast range is 2000.

Yes, it's the same thing.

* increased the size of many heroes
an unintended effect of this is that heroes are able to block creeps easier. while i fully support this change, i still wanted you to know just in case.

I have not tested this. But, I don't think it is the hero size that is affecting blocking. I have made the collisions for lane units larger to reduce units clumping so that they are easier to click.

starting gold: Why is it so low now? 525-100 = 425 starting. Potions are usually necessary: got to choose among the 195 gold items now(stats, damage, HP/mana)?

Yes, I reduced the amount of items players can start off with. Typically, players can select one item and a potion, or two items. I was also curious as to whether it was too low, but I believe that for new players, starting with a little gold will give a fair limitation to what items they can buy. I have other reasons also, but the explanations would take a while.

watcher wardz: I've been thinking, what are some optimal places to plant them? Igloos? Runes? (when i place on a hill nearby the rune, the vision from the ward is always blocked) Can't find any other useful high ledge areas where the vision is wide; any ideas?

This was one of my concerns while I was redoing the whole terrain. I know of a couple of spots...I'll update this post once I get the screenshots.

Is it intended that Bulge's Rot harms himself through magic immunity(immunity provided through amulet of spell shield)

Hm...not intentional, but I may keep it that way. It'll keep the "double-edge" feel of the ability and help keep it balanced (imagine him having 3k HP, dealing almost 200 DPS around himself...and he has nothing to lose for 7 seconds).

Visual suggestion: What do you think about the Scourge having different ground textures from that of the Blood Elves for their shops?

I suppose that is a good idea.

If you buy items that have a visual aura (without the hero being near the shop from which it is bought), the circle of power carrying that item gets the visual auras. Check screenshot.

That isn't much of a matter of concern. However, if I try to do something about it, it's probably not worth the investment.

 

[Leak-]

I want to see the explanations or other reasons you have about the starting gold reduction! If you don't mind explaining, I would really want to see your line of reasoning.

Cevil is missing the description for her abilities.

Very useful Watcher Wardz changes - 'flying' vision gives Wather Wardz a much needed significant boost in vision.

Have you removed the visual for inferno cloak? It looks like it still properly damages, but there isn't a visual around the holder anymore.

Gem of Contact Lenses cooldown of 70 seconds seems really long. What's the reasoning for this? From my point of view, having such a long cooldown forces players to carefully use this; but when they are against enemies who can go invisible easily(against Queen of Shadows, enemies with constantly armed with potion of reflection etc), it can be kind of unfair.

Do the damage auras from Orb of Extreme Ignition and and Dragon Whelp's Head stack for allied heroes? They both have the same visual aura.

I wanted to test some specific situations with 2 players, but the single player mode doesn't work when you have more than 1 player! Is it possible to extend the single player testing mode commands to be available when there is more than 1 player? It would make bug-testing or play-testing significantly easier.

-modeinfo debug text: check screenshot (it also seems that the circle of powers overlap a little)

 

[Leak-]

For Orb of Gelidity: do you think that the visual of an ice explosion is a little too much? the nova makes it look like it deals additional damage and more of a result from a spell than an attack: do you think that just a minor ice effect on the enemy unit better depicts the slowing of the enemy unit? this may be a problem though, since the crown of kings unholy aura already uses a visual like that.

Some minor testing:

- Trueshot: Killing enemy summons or denying allied summons doesn't provide bonus agility.
- Soul Burn: It seems that this debuff damages extra upon allied units when you attack them below the deny threshold.

 

[stempel2000]

Great AoS, I plaied it a couple times now with some dudes and its really cool!
You have a lot of individual heros and skills.
Beastmasters beginning skill (axes around him) is awesom

Great map!!

 

[Leak-]

For the Scourge, Acolyte Crafts and Forge have the same building model. Is this intended?

 

[Shanghai]

my point

One of the best aos i tested so far. Good work dude.

 

[Leak-]

When I tested Sorrow Stave, I didn't see the visual for sorrow stave.

It seems that creep aggression still is not properly activated. Replay showing this is attached (fast forward to 1:51 replay time).

 

[dragoon431]

I love this map and i love AOS maps so double score for you!!!!!!! 10/5

 

[BloodyKaiser]

Awesome