Warcraft 3 Reforged Leaked Previews

[deepstrasz]

And let's face it, if for some reason Reforged flops financially, our dream of getting Warcraft 4 in not so distant future is significantly less likely to come true. And I really want to play Warcraft 4 some day.

Nah. If they wanted to make Warcraft IV they would have but instead went the easier cash grab way. The Warcraft III community needed editor and modding improvements not graphics overhaul (some lightening and shadow works yes but that's about it).

 

[OutsiderXE]

Really now, they didn't even change it with pacthing. Just because of a silly book we now have to change Thrall's black wolf to white to satisfy WoW fans.

I know but still. Thrall looks much better on a black wolf. That white and the yellow and black of the armour and wolf armour doesn't match the pale white a frost wolf is supposed to have.

I was positively surprised to see Thrall on a white wolf. I imagine that the original choice to make him black was simply to match with the armor. Same for the Far Seer, the decision was to put him on a white wolf because the FS wears mostly white.
I think it does look a bit strange but hopefully that can be resolved with proper shading.
As for the lore, well, Snowsong is white. There was no lore about Snowsong before LotC. LotC came out before even WC3. WC1 may have had only black wolves but Reforged would be limiting itself way too much by going by WC1.

 

[deepstrasz]

As for the lore, well, Snowsong is white. There was no lore about Snowsong before LotC. LotC came out before even WC3. WC1 may have had only black wolves but Reforged would be limiting itself way too much by going by WC1.

I didn't say there shouldn't be white wolves. Thrall's should be black for two reasons mentioned already: it looks good and they didn't change it according to the book for almost 20 years when they still patched the game and added material, mind you as the Tavern heroes and The Founders of Durotar final maps/chapters.

I'm not sure they actually decided the book was cannon until later with WoW. The RoC manual doesn't say much about what LotC says and of course nothing about the wolf colour or any wolf so you'd assume it was taken from Orgrim or someone/somewhere.

 

[MrRious]

I didn't say there shouldn't be white wolves. Thrall's should be black for two reasons mentioned already: it looks good and they didn't change it according to the book for almost 20 years when they still patched the game and added material, mind you as the Tavern heroes and The Founders of Durotar final maps/chapters.

I agree that Thrall's wolf shouldn't be changed, but the fact that Blizz kept her the way she was doesn't mean they wanted to.

Btw. I REALLY hope Akama won't be changed.

 

[deepstrasz]

I agree that Thrall's wolf shouldn't be changed, but the fact that Blizz kept her the way she was doesn't mean they wanted to.

What stopped them from changing it when they should instead of waiting so long?

 

[Venombite]

I didn't say there shouldn't be white wolves. Thrall's should be black for two reasons mentioned already: it looks good and they didn't change it according to the book for almost 20 years when they still patched the game and added material, mind you as the Tavern heroes and The Founders of Durotar final maps/chapters.

I'm not sure they actually decided the book was cannon until later with WoW. The RoC manual doesn't say much about what LotC says and of course nothing about the wolf colour or any wolf so you'd assume it was taken from Orgrim or someone/somewhere.

Sorry, I mean no disrespect or to be rude, but you're talking nonsense.
If the book was not cannon how did Thrall suddenly become the Warchief of the Horde? How was the Horde suddenly free from the interment camps? Why do orcs practise shamanism instead of warlock all of a sudden? What happened to Doomhammer?
Blizzard publishes a WoW book before every Warcraft game expansion as a prelude to the story. Lord of the Clans was obviousely a prelude to WC3 RoC. It deals with the main plot of the story, Thrall and his life. RoC prologue campaign beguins where LotC basically ends.
Snowsong is explicitly stated white in the book, as well as all the wolves in her pack that came with her from Draenor with the Frostwolf Clan.

 

[MrRious]

What stopped them from changing it when they should instead of waiting so long?

Why would they bother? It's not gamebreaking and since it's already in the game...

Sorry, I mean no disrespect or to be rude, but you're talking nonsense.
If the book was not cannon how did Thrall suddenly become the Warchief of the Horde? How was the Horde suddenly free from the interment camps? Why do orcs practise shamanism instead of warlock all of a sudden? What happened to Doomhammer?
Blizzard publishes a WoW book before every Warcraft game expansion as a prelude to the story. Lord of the Clans was obviousely a prelude to WC3 RoC. It deals with the main plot of the story, Thrall and his life. RoC prologue campaign beguins where LotC basically ends.
Snowsong is explicitly stated white in the book, as well as all the wolves in her pack that came with her from Draenor with the Frostwolf Clan.

I guess Thrall's backstory was based on that one cancelled adventure game:

 

[Anaxie]

I thought they said Reforged is a remaster and so much more.

It stopped being a remastered when they showed the first map. The culling and it was a 100% different map that also included miniboss spawns

One can only assume the vast majority of other maps will get similar treatment on a smaller or similar scale

Its obvious quel thalas and Dalaran are going to undergo extreme map and probably even army composition changes

Another change we should expect is that the mount hyjal level will include another hero being thrown at us. Kaz'Rogal the Doom Lord.

 

[MrRious]

The culling and it was a 100% different map that also included miniboss spawns

One can only assume the vast majority of other maps will get similar treatment on a smaller or similar scale

Those miniboss battles are the straw that broke the camel's back. If they don't get removed I won't buy this game.

Also, I think they said that only some levels will be remade to fit the WoW locations.

 

[deepstrasz]

If the book was not cannon how did Thrall suddenly become the Warchief of the Horde?

It's in the manual. BlizzEnt games had lots of pre-game story passages in their game manuals.
Quoting:

Spoiler

Lethargy and Internment
As the months passed, more orc prisoners were rounded up and placed within the internment camps. As the camps began to overflow, the Alliance was forced to construct new camps in the plains of south of the Alterac Mountains. To properly maintain and supply the growing number of camps, King Terenas levied a new tax on the Alliance nations. This tax, as well as increased political tensions over border disputes, created widespread dissention amongst the leaders of the Alliance. It seemed that the fragile pact that had forged the human nations together in their darkest hour would break at any given moment.
Amidst the political turmoil, many of the camp wardens began to notice an unsettling change come over their orc captives. The orcs’ efforts to escape from the camps or even fight amongst themselves had greatly decreased in frequency over time. The orcs were becoming increasingly aloof and lethargic. Though it was difficult to believe, the orcs – once held as the most aggressive race ever seen on Azeroth – had completely lost their will to fight. The strange lethargy confounded the Alliance leaders and continued to take its toll on the rapidly weakening orcs.
Some speculated that some strange disease, contractible only by orcs, brought about the baffling lethargy. But the Archmage, Antonidas of Dalaran, posed a different hypothesis. Researching what little he could find of orcish history, Antonidas learned that the orcs had been under the crippling influence of demonic power (or warlock magics) for generations. He speculated that the orcs had been corrupted by demonic powers even before their first invasion of Azeroth. Clearly, demons had spiked the orcs’ blood, which in turn granted the brutes unnaturally heightened strength, endurance and aggression.
Antonidas theorized that the orcs’ communal lethargy was not actually a disease, but a long-term racial withdrawal from the volatile Warlock magics that had made them fearsome, bloodlusted warriors. Though the symptoms were clear, Antonidas was unable to find a cure for the orcs’ present condition. Many of his fellow mages, as well as a few notable Alliance leaders, argued that finding a cure for the orcs would be an imprudent venture. Left to ponder the orcs’ mysterious condition, Antonidas’ conclusion was that the orcs’ only cure would have to be a spiritual one…

Thrall’s Tale
During the dark days of the First War, a cunning human officer named Aedelas Blackmoore found an infant orc abandoned in the wilds. The infant orc, whom Blackmoore aptly named Thrall, was taken to the prison-fortress of Durnholde. There, Blackmoore raised the young orc as a favored slave and gladiator. Intending to train the young orc to be not only a peerless warrior, but also an educated leader, Blackmoore hoped to use Thrall to take over the horde, and thereby achieve dominion over his fellow men.
Nineteen years passed and Thrall grew into a strong, quick-witted orc. Yet his young heart knew that a slave’s life was not for him. Many things had transpired in the world outside the fortress as he grew to maturity. He learned that his people, the orcs – whom he had never met – had been defeated and placed into internment camps in the human lands. Doomhammer, the leader of his people, had escaped from Lordaeron and gone into hiding. He knew that only one rogue clan still operated in secret, trying to evade the watchful eyes of the Alliance.
The resourceful yet inexperienced Thrall decided to escape from Blackmoore’s fortress and set off to find others of his kind. During his journeys Thrall visited the internment camps and found his once mighty race to be strangely cowed and lethargic. Having not found the proud warriors he hoped to discover, Thrall set out to find the last undefeated orc chieftain, Grom Hellscream.
Despite being constantly hunted by the humans, Hellscream still held onto the horde’s unquenchable will to fight. Aided only by his own devoted Warsong clan, Hellscream continued to fight an underground war against the oppression of his beleaguered people. Unfortunately, Hellscream could never find a way to rouse the captured orcs from their stupor. The impressionable Thrall, inspired by Hellscream’s idealism, developed a strong empathy for the horde and its warrior traditions.
Seeking the truth of his own origins, Thrall traveled north to find the legendary Frostwolf clan. Thrall learned that Gul’dan had exiled the Frostwolves during the early days of the First War. He also discovered that he was the son and heir of the orc hero, Durotan – the true chieftain of the Frostwolves who had been murdered in the wilds nearly twenty years before…
Under the tutelage of the venerable shaman, Drek’Thar, Thrall studied the ancient shamanistic culture of his people that had been forgotten under Gul’dan’s’ evil rule. Over time, Thrall became a powerful shaman and took his rightful place as chieftain of the exiled Frostwolves. Empowered by the elements themselves and driven to find his destiny, Thrall set off to free the captive clans and heal his race of demonic corruption.
During his travels, Thrall found the aged warchief, Orgrim Doomhammer, who had been living as a hermit for many years. Doomhammer, who had been a close friend of Thrall’s father, decided to follow the young, visionary orc and help him free the captive clans. Supported by many of the veteran chieftains, Thrall ultimately succeeded in revitalizing the horde and giving his people a new spiritual identity.
To symbolize his people’s rebirth, Thrall returned to Blackmoore’s fortress of Durnholde and put a decisive end to his former master’s plans by laying siege to the internment camps. Yet, during the liberation of one camp, Doomhammer fell in battle. Thrall took up Doomhammer’s legendary warhammer and donned his black plate-armor to become the new warchief of the horde. During the following months, Thrall’s small but volatile horde laid waste to the internment camps and stymied the Alliance’s best efforts to counter its clever strategies. Encouraged by his best friend and mentor, Grom Hellscream, Thrall worked to ensure that no orc would be cast into slavery – either by humans or demons – ever again.

Mind you, there are War of the Ancients related passages and the first book came out in 2004.
And there's a chapter about Day of the Dragon, which yes indeed was released before the game in 2001.

Actually, read the manual yourself (I've attached it). There's a lot more to read if you're interested.

So, not to be rude, but having to read a book between games to understand WHY, is stupid. Games should be connected properly without left out material. That is the nonsense.
Moreover, the game Warcraft Adventures: Lord of the Clans was in the making long before the book or RoC.

Why would they bother? It's not gamebreaking and since it's already in the game...

Same now, why bother? WoW fans, that's why.

 

[Anaxie]

Those miniboss battles are the straw that broke the camel's back. If they don't get removed I won't buy this game.

?

Its a remake . If the core of the game is the same and you can play the Original campaigns with updated graphics but old maps who cares.

Its the same result.

Your essentially saying no to 8 entire NEW yes NEW campaigns upfront. Which is UNHEARD of in this day in age. At most you would be lucky to get 1 or 2 campaigns years apart.

Leak screens for campaign menu shows ORIGINAL and REFORGED which i assume is. Old maps /new maps.

 

[MrRious]

Actually, read the manual yourself (I've attached it). There's a lot more to read if you're interested.

Thanks for the manual. Knowing more backstory will surely improve my custom campaign.

 

[deepstrasz]

Thanks for the manual. Knowing more backstory will surely improve my custom campaign.

If you're interested in the ones for the first two RTS games and the retcons between them, here:
Warcraft original lore | HIVE

Let's not forget about Chris Metzen's book Of Blood and Honor if you guys are so fanatical about books. It's the first Warcraft book and it's written by an/the original Warcraft lore writer.

 

[Anaxie]

Thanks for the manual. Knowing more backstory will surely improve my custom campaign.

Thrall having a white wolf will surely destroy your custom campaign?

If you're interested in the ones for the first two RTS games and the retcons between them, here:
Warcraft original lore | HIVE

Let's not forget about Chris Metzen's book Of Blood and Honor.

Ah the Tirion book that shows the Alliance for the assholes they truly are when they ruin him for daring to save an orc.

People like to point to garithos then dismiss him as a renegade.

I simply point to this book.

 

[deepstrasz]

Thrall having a white wolf will surely destroy your custom campaign?

Hopefully, there will be someone to skin edit the model later on if ActiBlizz doesn't intend to also put a black wolf version.

 

[Anaxie]

Hopefully, there will be someone to skin edit the model later on if ActiBlizz doesn't intend to also put a black wolf version.

I doubt the will. Since its wrong

Unless you think Guldan also took a bunch of SHAMANS to the tomb of Sargeras as the actual story.

Spoiler

Guldan destroyed orc shaman culture

 

[MrRious]

Your essentially saying no to 8 entire NEW yes NEW campaigns upfront. Which is UNHEARD of in this day in age. At most you would be lucky to get 1 or 2 campaigns years apart.

I'm not saying "no" to them. Just like you I'm glad we'll finally have some NEW levels.

I've said I hate those miniboss battles. They're really out of place and are only there to please the Wow fans.

Just as I've said, I think devs stated in some interview that they would edit the places seen in Wow. I don't mind that, since we'll still be able to play the original levels.

 

[deepstrasz]

Unless you think Guldan also took a bunch of SHAMANS to the tomb of Sargeras as the actual story.

Maybe they were used as slaves but yeah, I know, that's unacceptable since they already had made a Warlock model in RoC.
Not all of it was destroyed otherwise Drek'Thar would have to be dead and no shamans would have appeared afterwards or at least not too soon or not exactly shamans.
But, this is not the same thing. There was no established game lore about Thrall's wolf prior to RoC.
It's not wrong at all if you just delete the lousy books.

 

[Anaxie]

I'm not saying "no" to them. Just like you I'm glad we'll finally have some NEW levels.

I've said I hate those miniboss battles. They're really out of place and are only there to please the Wow fans.

Just as I've said, I think devs stated in some interview that they would edit the places seen in Wow. I don't mind that, since we'll still be able to play the original levels.

???? No i would say ots there to add more flavor to the campaign instead of just ghoul and abomination spam or busting down a house and killing zombies which was dreadfully easy.

You should probably sit back because scenarios and creep camps are going to likely include a lot more named characters this time around.

Im sure there will be a main bad for the Mwrch of the Scourge level. My money is on Ajar the summoner.

Maybe they were used as slaves but yeah, I know, that's unacceptable since they already had made a Warlock model in RoC.
Not all of it was destroyed otherwise Drek'Thar would have to be dead and no shamans would have appeared afterwards or at least not too soon or not exactly shamans.
But, this is not the same thing. There was no established game lore about Thrall's wolf prior to RoC.
It's not wrong at all if you just delete the lousy books.

Except the lord of the clan novel.

I mean Arthas IS going to be riding invincible in undead campaign they even mentention his ressurrection is probably gonna get a cutscene so i doubt thralls white wolf should be the least of your worries.

 

[deepstrasz]

Except the lord of the clan novel.

Which is not GAME lore and not even at least written by Chris Metzen or Bill Roper or whoever else worked on Warcraft game lore at the time.

I mean Arthas IS going to be riding invincible in undead campaign they even mentention his ressurrection is probably gonna get a cutscene so i doubt thralls white wolf should be the least of your worries.

I'm OK with that since it's more of addon than a change.

 

[Anaxie]

Which is not even at least written by Chris Metzen or Bill Roper or whoever else worked on Warcraft game lore at the time.

Rofl? Thrall is in RoC because of his creation in the novel.

As someone already said. The games oepning cutscene literally picks up where the book ended.

 

[deepstrasz]

Rofl? Thrall is in RoC because of his creation in the novel.

Have you even payed attention to what me and MrRious were writing. Thrall, the character as a Warchief of the Horde is far older than the novel.

As someone already said. The games oepning cutscene literally picks up where the book ended.

You honestly don't even need to read the book to understand what's going on. It's basically a fresh start with new characters and the connections are all there in the manual for the interested.

 

[MrRious]

Im sure there will be a main bad for the Mwrch of the Scourge level. My money is on Ajar the summoner.

I seriously doubt that. I seriously hope that won't happen. Blizz said they don't want to split the community and I'm sure they'll do, if they add random characters from Wow into the game, for no real reason. I hope they realise it.

 

[Venombite]

It's in the manual. BlizzEnt games had lots of pre-game story passages in their game manuals.
Quoting:

Spoiler

Lethargy and Internment
As the months passed, more orc prisoners were rounded up and placed within the internment camps. As the camps began to overflow, the Alliance was forced to construct new camps in the plains of south of the Alterac Mountains. To properly maintain and supply the growing number of camps, King Terenas levied a new tax on the Alliance nations. This tax, as well as increased political tensions over border disputes, created widespread dissention amongst the leaders of the Alliance. It seemed that the fragile pact that had forged the human nations together in their darkest hour would break at any given moment.
Amidst the political turmoil, many of the camp wardens began to notice an unsettling change come over their orc captives. The orcs’ efforts to escape from the camps or even fight amongst themselves had greatly decreased in frequency over time. The orcs were becoming increasingly aloof and lethargic. Though it was difficult to believe, the orcs – once held as the most aggressive race ever seen on Azeroth – had completely lost their will to fight. The strange lethargy confounded the Alliance leaders and continued to take its toll on the rapidly weakening orcs.
Some speculated that some strange disease, contractible only by orcs, brought about the baffling lethargy. But the Archmage, Antonidas of Dalaran, posed a different hypothesis. Researching what little he could find of orcish history, Antonidas learned that the orcs had been under the crippling influence of demonic power (or warlock magics) for generations. He speculated that the orcs had been corrupted by demonic powers even before their first invasion of Azeroth. Clearly, demons had spiked the orcs’ blood, which in turn granted the brutes unnaturally heightened strength, endurance and aggression.
Antonidas theorized that the orcs’ communal lethargy was not actually a disease, but a long-term racial withdrawal from the volatile Warlock magics that had made them fearsome, bloodlusted warriors. Though the symptoms were clear, Antonidas was unable to find a cure for the orcs’ present condition. Many of his fellow mages, as well as a few notable Alliance leaders, argued that finding a cure for the orcs would be an imprudent venture. Left to ponder the orcs’ mysterious condition, Antonidas’ conclusion was that the orcs’ only cure would have to be a spiritual one…

Thrall’s Tale
During the dark days of the First War, a cunning human officer named Aedelas Blackmoore found an infant orc abandoned in the wilds. The infant orc, whom Blackmoore aptly named Thrall, was taken to the prison-fortress of Durnholde. There, Blackmoore raised the young orc as a favored slave and gladiator. Intending to train the young orc to be not only a peerless warrior, but also an educated leader, Blackmoore hoped to use Thrall to take over the horde, and thereby achieve dominion over his fellow men.
Nineteen years passed and Thrall grew into a strong, quick-witted orc. Yet his young heart knew that a slave’s life was not for him. Many things had transpired in the world outside the fortress as he grew to maturity. He learned that his people, the orcs – whom he had never met – had been defeated and placed into internment camps in the human lands. Doomhammer, the leader of his people, had escaped from Lordaeron and gone into hiding. He knew that only one rogue clan still operated in secret, trying to evade the watchful eyes of the Alliance.
The resourceful yet inexperienced Thrall decided to escape from Blackmoore’s fortress and set off to find others of his kind. During his journeys Thrall visited the internment camps and found his once mighty race to be strangely cowed and lethargic. Having not found the proud warriors he hoped to discover, Thrall set out to find the last undefeated orc chieftain, Grom Hellscream.
Despite being constantly hunted by the humans, Hellscream still held onto the horde’s unquenchable will to fight. Aided only by his own devoted Warsong clan, Hellscream continued to fight an underground war against the oppression of his beleaguered people. Unfortunately, Hellscream could never find a way to rouse the captured orcs from their stupor. The impressionable Thrall, inspired by Hellscream’s idealism, developed a strong empathy for the horde and its warrior traditions.
Seeking the truth of his own origins, Thrall traveled north to find the legendary Frostwolf clan. Thrall learned that Gul’dan had exiled the Frostwolves during the early days of the First War. He also discovered that he was the son and heir of the orc hero, Durotan – the true chieftain of the Frostwolves who had been murdered in the wilds nearly twenty years before…
Under the tutelage of the venerable shaman, Drek’Thar, Thrall studied the ancient shamanistic culture of his people that had been forgotten under Gul’dan’s’ evil rule. Over time, Thrall became a powerful shaman and took his rightful place as chieftain of the exiled Frostwolves. Empowered by the elements themselves and driven to find his destiny, Thrall set off to free the captive clans and heal his race of demonic corruption.
During his travels, Thrall found the aged warchief, Orgrim Doomhammer, who had been living as a hermit for many years. Doomhammer, who had been a close friend of Thrall’s father, decided to follow the young, visionary orc and help him free the captive clans. Supported by many of the veteran chieftains, Thrall ultimately succeeded in revitalizing the horde and giving his people a new spiritual identity.
To symbolize his people’s rebirth, Thrall returned to Blackmoore’s fortress of Durnholde and put a decisive end to his former master’s plans by laying siege to the internment camps. Yet, during the liberation of one camp, Doomhammer fell in battle. Thrall took up Doomhammer’s legendary warhammer and donned his black plate-armor to become the new warchief of the horde. During the following months, Thrall’s small but volatile horde laid waste to the internment camps and stymied the Alliance’s best efforts to counter its clever strategies. Encouraged by his best friend and mentor, Grom Hellscream, Thrall worked to ensure that no orc would be cast into slavery – either by humans or demons – ever again.

Mind you, there are War of the Ancients related passages and the first book came out in 2004.
And there's a chapter about Day of the Dragon, which yes indeed was released before the game in 2001.

Actually, read the manual yourself (I've attached it). There's a lot more to read if you're interested.

So, not to be rude, but having to read a book between games to understand WHY, is stupid. Games should be connected properly without left out material. That is the nonsense.
Moreover, the game Warcraft Adventures: Lord of the Clans was in the making long before the book or RoC.


Same now, why bother? WoW fans, that's why.

Lol, this is basically Lord of the Clans in a nutshell. Lethargic orcs, finding Grom, than Drek'thar, than becoming a shaman etc... It's all the main plot of LotC. This was obviousely ritten from LotC to fill the story to those that didn't read the book. Download it or read the book. It's really short and imo it's the second most important story in warcraft universe, second only to The Last Guardian.

 

[Anaxie]

I seriously doubt that. I seriously hope that won't happen. Blizz said they don't want to split the community and I'm sure they'll do, if they add random characters from Wow into the game, for no real reason. I hope they realise it.

Ajar the summoner a name the lich could be randomly in the level.....

I think your being a little dramtic. Play the original if you want the same old shit. U can still use the shiny new graphics

I myself have played the originals nearly a dozen times. Im ready for something brand new with surprises

Im also not sure how that would split the community. That argumebt is retarded anyhow and ship sailed when they started balancing the game 14 years after its last patch.

 

[RED BARON]

I am just going to conclude that Reforged will likely be a modding platform, and hopefully we can thus change anything that goes against what we hoped. + Never forget how good an excuse it is, to relook at warcraft.

 

[Anaxie]

Lol, this is basically Lord of the Clans in a nutshell. Lethargic orcs, finding Grom, than Drek'thar, than becoming a shaman etc... It's all the main plot of LotC. This was obviousely ritten from LotC to fill the story to those that didn't read the book. Download it or read the book. It's really short and imo it's the second most important story in warcraft universe, second only to The Last Guardian.

Or just play OutsiderXEs campaign which is the unofficial prologue to RoC anyhow now. Honestly.

Have you even payed attention to what me and MrRious were writing. Thrall, the character as a Warchief of the Horde is far older than the novel.

You honestly don't even need to read the book to understand what's going on. It's basically a fresh start with new characters and the connections are all there in the manual for the interested.

Not a fresh start when theres continuity

 

[deepstrasz]

Download it or read the book. It's really short and imo it's the second most important story in warcraft universe, second only to The Last Guardian.

Not gonna happen.
I'm pretty sure that nutshell consists of Chris Metzen's main ideas expanded upon by Christie Golden.
Find Warcraft Adventures: Lord of the Clans or watch the playthrough over the internet. You'll understand better, what I'm trying to tell you.

Ajar the summoner

Araj?

Also, stop multiposting please.

 

[Anaxie]

Not gonna happen.
I'm pretty sure that nutshell consists of Chris Metzen's main ideas expanded upon by Christie Golden.
Find Warcraft Adventures: Lord of the Clans or watch the playthrough over the internet. You'll understand better, what I'm trying to tell you.

Warcraft adventures and lord of the clans are both two very very very different stories in the meat and bones.

Also one ever saw a public release so the only one of relevance is the novel as warcraft adventures was unfinished

 

[deepstrasz]

Warcraft adventures and lord of the clans are both two very very very different stories in the meat and bones.

The main idea is the same.

Also one ever saw a public release so the only one of relevance is the novel as warcraft adventures was unfinished

Lame argument. It's a fact, that Thrall's story is much older and it didn't require a book. The short chapter in the RoC manual is enough.

 

[Anaxie]

The main idea is the same.

Except warcraft adventures is an inconple game that may or may not of had story or scene revisions in a finished product

A good example?

Resident evil 1.5 and the scrapped Resident evil 4.

 

[MrRious]

Never forget how good an excuse it is, to relook at warcraft.

A game that is literally 10/10. Surely the biggest RTS masterpiece. Great story, great gameplay. Almost flawless.

The only flaws that come to my mind are the Easy AI, Undead being hard to play, spells shortcuts that can be changed manually and some minor bugs in the cutscenes. Other than that, this game is PERFECT in every way.

 

[deepstrasz]

Except warcraft adventures is an inconple game that may or may not of had story or scene revisions in a finished product

I've already answered in the post above. No need to spam the same message again.

 

[Anaxie]

A game that is literally 10/10. Surely the biggest RTS masterpiece. Great story, great gameplay. Almost flawless.

The only flaws that come to my mind are the Easy AI, Undead being hard to play, spells shortcuts that can be changed manually and some minor bugs in the cutscenes. Other than that, this game is PERFECT in every way.

A game that is literally 10/10. Surely the biggest RTS masterpiece. Great story, great gameplay. Almost flawless.

The only flaws that come to my mind are the Easy AI, Undead being hard to play, spells shortcuts that can be changed manually and some minor bugs in the cutscenes. Other than that, this game is PERFECT in every way.

Idk about perfect.

Pathing could easily get retarded

 

[deepstrasz]

Idk about perfect.

For its time.
Do you always have to counter every post?

Not a fresh start when theres continuity

That's not what I meant, literally a fresh start. I meant, new characters and whether they are related to prior events or not, is less important.

 

[MrRious]

For its time.

I don't know man. It still is the best RTS I've ever played.

Idk about perfect.

Pathing could easily get retarded

I can understand why someone can dislike the pathfinding, but I've never had any issues with it (Maybe on the custom levels). Surely not as bad as in other games.

 

[deepstrasz]

I don't know man. It still is the best RTS I've ever played.

Indeed, overall, it is.

I can understand why someone can dislike the pathfinding, but I've never had any issues with it (Maybe on the custom levels). Surely not as bad as in other games.

Once they started playing StarCraft II, their micro got lazy and too comfortable.

 

[HerrDave]

Ooh "Reforged is so shiny!"

Personally, I think the models are hideously overdesigned.
The hyper-detail, the reflective armour-- it doesn't even bear a passing resemblance to the cartoony, colourful Warcraft III of old.
That level of detail is wholly unnecessary in an RTS, and would only ever be noticed by the psychotically observant during close-ups.
The fellows who added HD Warcraft III models to Starcraft II had a vastly better vision than the faded, chunky stickmen we are being presented with.

But "Think of the possibilities!"

These "New" models don't mean jack shit to the modeling & mapping community because they only go with themselves.
- Mappers would have to use only the new models in their maps, resulting in a much narrower field of available creations without a huge clash of quality.
- Modelers would have to do truly professional work for free, which is not only unrealistic, but stunningly disrespectful to expect someone perform that level of work for free on what (in my case) is hundreds of models.


In my book, Reforged is an unwelcome waste of money and skill that could otherwise have been used on something more fruitful.

How it should've been done.

Spoiler

Note how the stances are the same, the colours are the same, the models are still clearly identifiable.

Spoiler

Really makes Wc3:Reforged look like a Warhammer mod, doesn't it?

 

[MrRious]

Ooh "Reforged is so shiny!"

Personally, I think the models are hideously overdesigned.
The hyper-detail, the reflective armour-- it doesn't even bear a passing resemblance to the cartoony, colourful Warcraft III of old.
That level of detail is wholly unnecessary in an RTS, and would only ever be noticed by the psychotically observant during close-ups.
The fellows who added HD Warcraft III models to Starcraft II had a vastly better vision than the faded, chunky stickmen we are being presented with.

But "Think of the possibilities!"

These "New" models don't mean jack shit to the modeling & mapping community because they only go with themselves.
- Mappers would have to use only the new models in their maps, resulting in a much narrower field of available creations without a huge clash of quality.
- Modelers would have to do truly professional work for free, which is not only unrealistic, but stunningly disrespectful to expect someone perform that level of work for free on what (in my case) is hundreds of models.


In my book, Reforged is an unwelcome waste of money and skill that could otherwise have been used on something more fruitful.

How it should've been done.

Spoiler

Note how the stances are the same, the colours are the same, the models are still clearly identifiable.

Spoiler

Really makes Wc3:Reforged look like a Warhammer mod, doesn't it?

Amen.

 

[deepstrasz]

These "New" models don't mean jack shit to the modeling & mapping community because they only go with themselves.

Let's hope we would at least get WoW, HotStorm and other ActiBlizz game rips.

 

[PROXY]

Ooh "Reforged is so shiny!"

Personally, I think the models are hideously overdesigned.
The hyper-detail, the reflective armour-- it doesn't even bear a passing resemblance to the cartoony, colourful Warcraft III of old.
That level of detail is wholly unnecessary in an RTS, and would only ever be noticed by the psychotically observant during close-ups.
The fellows who added HD Warcraft III models to Starcraft II had a vastly better vision than the faded, chunky stickmen we are being presented with.

But "Think of the possibilities!"

These "New" models don't mean jack shit to the modeling & mapping community because they only go with themselves.
- Mappers would have to use only the new models in their maps, resulting in a much narrower field of available creations without a huge clash of quality.
- Modelers would have to do truly professional work for free, which is not only unrealistic, but stunningly disrespectful to expect someone perform that level of work for free on what (in my case) is hundreds of models.


In my book, Reforged is an unwelcome waste of money and skill that could otherwise have been used on something more fruitful.
Really makes Wc3:Reforged look like a Warhammer mod, doesn't it?

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Tovio]

Ooh "Reforged is so shiny!"

Personally, I think the models are hideously overdesigned.
The hyper-detail, the reflective armour-- it doesn't even bear a passing resemblance to the cartoony, colourful Warcraft III of old.
That level of detail is wholly unnecessary in an RTS, and would only ever be noticed by the psychotically observant during close-ups.
The fellows who added HD Warcraft III models to Starcraft II had a vastly better vision than the faded, chunky stickmen we are being presented with.

But "Think of the possibilities!"

These "New" models don't mean jack shit to the modeling & mapping community because they only go with themselves.
- Mappers would have to use only the new models in their maps, resulting in a much narrower field of available creations without a huge clash of quality.
- Modelers would have to do truly professional work for free, which is not only unrealistic, but stunningly disrespectful to expect someone perform that level of work for free on what (in my case) is hundreds of models.


In my book, Reforged is an unwelcome waste of money and skill that could otherwise have been used on something more fruitful.

How it should've been done.

Spoiler

Note how the stances are the same, the colours are the same, the models are still clearly identifiable.

Spoiler

Really makes Wc3:Reforged look like a Warhammer mod, doesn't it?

This, THIS!

 

[deepstrasz]

How it should've been done.

 

[Isaak]

Part of the success blizzard has is because they are(were?) so good at making their games visuals distinct and thus recognizable. I am sure the people in charge of reforged had good intentions but obviously are not capable to make the right decisions. Some of the models and icons are really beautiful with a lot of overly smooth and generic looking art in between, especially when it comes to the environment.

Looking at the promising blizzcon 2018 demo i wonder how to fail that bad on the terrain and doodads... just look at the difference in quality of the trees, why go from beautiful to ugly? Its really frustrating cause the potential was so huge.

(i removed the fog of war for comparison)

 

[Augustus]

I think the new graphics are a lot better. The colors are more vibrant and the Footman got some much needed love. He doesn't look like he is using some cheapo WoW greens anymore. Some units are really good looking but none of them are outright bad. Back in 2018 there was something off about most of the graphics but not anymore.

They are really trying their best. I am really impressed at how the game has evolved since last year.

 

[Trill]

Ooh "Reforged is so shiny!"

Personally, I think the models are hideously overdesigned.
The hyper-detail, the reflective armour-- it doesn't even bear a passing resemblance to the cartoony, colourful Warcraft III of old.
That level of detail is wholly unnecessary in an RTS, and would only ever be noticed by the psychotically observant during close-ups.
The fellows who added HD Warcraft III models to Starcraft II had a vastly better vision than the faded, chunky stickmen we are being presented with.

But "Think of the possibilities!"

These "New" models don't mean jack shit to the modeling & mapping community because they only go with themselves.
- Mappers would have to use only the new models in their maps, resulting in a much narrower field of available creations without a huge clash of quality.
- Modelers would have to do truly professional work for free, which is not only unrealistic, but stunningly disrespectful to expect someone perform that level of work for free on what (in my case) is hundreds of models.


In my book, Reforged is an unwelcome waste of money and skill that could otherwise have been used on something more fruitful.

How it should've been done.

Spoiler

Note how the stances are the same, the colours are the same, the models are still clearly identifiable.

Spoiler

Really makes Wc3:Reforged look like a Warhammer mod, doesn't it?

Quoted for truth!

 

[Venombite]

Ooh "Reforged is so shiny!"

Personally, I think the models are hideously overdesigned.
The hyper-detail, the reflective armour-- it doesn't even bear a passing resemblance to the cartoony, colourful Warcraft III of old.
That level of detail is wholly unnecessary in an RTS, and would only ever be noticed by the psychotically observant during close-ups.
The fellows who added HD Warcraft III models to Starcraft II had a vastly better vision than the faded, chunky stickmen we are being presented with.

But "Think of the possibilities!"

These "New" models don't mean jack shit to the modeling & mapping community because they only go with themselves.
- Mappers would have to use only the new models in their maps, resulting in a much narrower field of available creations without a huge clash of quality.
- Modelers would have to do truly professional work for free, which is not only unrealistic, but stunningly disrespectful to expect someone perform that level of work for free on what (in my case) is hundreds of models.


In my book, Reforged is an unwelcome waste of money and skill that could otherwise have been used on something more fruitful.

How it should've been done.

Spoiler

Note how the stances are the same, the colours are the same, the models are still clearly identifiable.

Spoiler

Really makes Wc3:Reforged look like a Warhammer mod, doesn't it?

First of all your models look really awesome. Love most of them.
About Reforged we have to realize/ask ourselves a few questions:

Why are we even getting Reforged? Cause Blizzard is not in a good situation, and needs all the cash it can get. So they need projects as cheep as possible, that will earn as much as possible. So the answer is simple->Revive old games that were successful, WoW Classic, Warcraft 3 etc... and play on nostalgia card.

What is even Warcraft 3 Reforged? Reforged is a remaster that reuses Heroes of the Storm, another dead Blizzard game, recycling it and looking to earn some money without many costs. It's basically a Warcraft 3 Mod for Heroes of the Storm. Really it was obvious even at Blizzcon 2018. The models are so complex, because they are "rips" from Heroes of the Storm. Stratholm in "The Culling" looks basically like a Heroes of the Storm battleground.

How would the game's future look like without Reforged? Well, not that bright. Let's say that now 30 000 people world-wide in 2018 (I have no clue really how many, but let's say). It would continue to decline and by 2022 it would be less than 10 000. Reforged might have bought the game a few extra precious years. I for one, personally have been returning to the game every couple of years, if I didn't hear about Reforged, who knows when and if I would ever played it again. It basically returned my interest of the game.

 

[Anaxie]

For its time.
Do you always have to counter every post?

That's not what I meant, literally a fresh start. I meant, new characters and whether they are related to prior events or not, is less important.

Still not perfect

It had command and conquer, dungeon keeper, stronghold, starcraft, and age ofempires, mythology to go against.

Really in their own way all those could be considered 10/10 gems.

The RTS genre used to be something special before it became a mostly abandoned genre.

 

[Augustus]

First of all your models look really awesome. Love most of them.
About Reforged we have to realize/ask ourselves a few questions:

1. Why are we even getting Reforged? Cause Blizzard is not in a good situation, and needs all the cash it can get. So they need projects as cheep as possible, that will earn as much as possible. So the answer is simple->Revive old games that were successful, WoW Classic, Warcraft 3 etc... and play on nostalgia card.
2. What is even Warcraft 3 Reforged? Reforged is a remaster that reuses Heroes of the Storm, another dead Blizzard game, recycling it and looking to earn some money without many costs. It's basically a Warcraft 3 Mod for Heroes of the Storm. Really it was obvious even at Blizzcon 2018. The models are so complex, because they are "rips" from Heroes of the Storm. Stratholm in "The Culling" looks basically like a Heroes of the Storm battleground.
3. What would be the game's future without Reforged? Well, not that bright. Let's say that now 30 000 people world-wide in 2018 (I have no clue really how many, but let's say). It would continue to decline and by 2022 it would be less than 10 000. Reforged might have bought the game a few extra precious years. I for one, personally have been returning to the game every couple of years, if I didn't hear about Reforged, who knows when and if I would ever played it again. It basically returned my interest of the game.

My hope is that Warcraft 3 Reforged becomes Warcraft 4 and that we get yearly single player expansion packs with tons of new models and modding capabilities...

Think about it, if they made WC4 people would complain it's not enough like WC3. Why not use WC3 Reforged to tell new Warcraft stories? I would love to see a campaign based on the Illidan novel or a Scarlet Crusade campaign...

 

[MrRious]

Think about it, if they made WC4 people would complain it's not enough like WC3.

I wouldn't mind WC4 being different than WC3. The main problem I have with Reforged is that it looks like a cheap chinese rip off and is exactly what Venombite said it is - a recycled game made with little effort just to cash in on nostalgia.