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Warcraft 3: Re-Launched? ⚡Or Warcraft 2?? ⚡️

Level 4
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Jan 9, 2024
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39
Honestly, in my opinion, there is nothing, absolutely nothing, that they can do that is superior or at least on the same level as what the people in this community did and still do for this game. It is only alive today because of you. Fuck if Blizzard makes W1 or 2 for Reforged now. They will never have my money!
 
They better have a big announcement for Warcraft 3 if they also want to announce something for Warcraft 2!
I have a hard time picturing how they would do this. Warcraft 3 has reforged itself into a minefield. Trying to make changes to it has an increased probability to break something. If the 1.31 client had remained separate, or perhaps even if Patch 1.26 were still live save only for an ACE vulnerability fix, and the distinction between Reforged and Classic was a matter of people playing the old technology as it was then, or people playing the new technology unhindered by backwards compatibility -- and if both had their own servers -- then there would probably be fewer complaints. And also fewer probability of spawning new complaints if Microsoft touches the code!

But we don't live in that world. So, anything to do with Warcraft III, in my opinion, would be really difficult for this company.
 
Level 15
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
148
WarCraft 2 is one of the most beautiful games ever made. You've got to be one hell of an artist to make "remastered" assets worthy of the original.
8KKbDZ6QKee8HsKlvcQQeA-1024x682.jpeg
 
Level 15
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
148
Something tells me my GOG copy of WC2 won't get an upgrade to the Remastered version... Oh well, it's not like I've ever restricted myself with making unreasoned purchases. Off goes my oil extracted at a rig on Draenor. This will keep them Microsoft goblins fed for a while.


Some random thoughts on the upcoming WarCraft 2 remaster:

- The community (yes, WC2 still has a somewhat active player base) was taken by surprise with the leak. The guys who made WC2 Combat Edition (aka "Russian hackers" (c) Retera) and keep the servers alive are as puzzled as we are. This means that the devs haven't reached anyone from the community for feedback and suggestions. Unlike SC Remastered, which was developed with player ideas and old balance in mind, this remaster won't have any input from the community prior to its official unveiling/first public test.

- Currently, we don't know what aspects of the game will get a facelift (aside from the obvious ones), but, depending on the budget and Microsoft's estimates for sales figures, we can expect such things as: rearranged soundtrack (perhaps, recorded with a real orchestra?), custom voices for Tides of Darkness heroes (those used basic unit sounds in the original game), an improved and expanded map editor (with added functionality for creating custom campaigns and maps with triggers), updated balance (those Ogre Magi with Bloodlust are unstoppable!), re-recorded mission briefings (Bill Roper is still alive, in case anyone forgot), improved AI and added difficulty levels.

- Here's a wild idea: they can remake WC1 inside WC2 and pack it in the Remaster as prequel campaigns! Thus they can kill two birds with one stone and never bother with spending money on a full-blown, big-budget remake of the first game.

- The leaked fragment of key art suggests that at least some units and heroes will be redesigned in accordance with the visual style of WoW. This is inevitable, given how they treated their previous remasters (SCR hero portraits were "updated" to resemble their SC2 counterparts; as for WC3 Reforged... Everyone knows how the "reimagining" turned out). I hope they won't WoWify everything too much...

- The very existence of this remaster suggests that someone convinced the big honchos that it will sell and people will buy it... Most likely, the corporate bosses also think that it's a safe bet, since remastering WC2 is easier (pronounced as "cheaper") than "reforging" WC3 and "resurrecting" Diablo 2.

__________________________________________
That's it for now folks, I'm going to get some sleep. Let's hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.
 
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this remaster won't have any input from the community prior to its official unveiling/first public test.
Maybe we will finally see the truth. That Reforged was made with more love and care than we all ever cared to see, and when the alternatives come to town, they may be even more tragic. Because society and corporatocracy has really fallen that far.
 
Level 39
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
1,957
What Retera said.
Anyway, for me personally, it impresses me all the time how they manage to throw away ,,news" like this (leaked news in hiding) while in truth they all just want to see how communities and users will react to those rumors.
Each time there is some half-revealed information about their patches, news, states of upcoming project, it always brings more questions and make people more confused than before. They are experts at this :cgrin:
 
Level 3
Joined
Jan 7, 2019
Messages
6
If Microsoft did W3 with the AoE2 approach, we would see a reforged W2 campaign within W3R. There would be $20 DLC for that.
 
Level 21
Joined
Jul 2, 2009
Messages
2,951
They might do a StarCraft Remastered Again for it and call it a day...

Still I much prefer Warcraft III a lot more and Chronicles of the Second War and other Custom Campaigns does it more justice...
Deciding too if I ever want it, but I am looking into as well...
 
Level 13
Joined
Feb 3, 2019
Messages
814
What I expect from 30 years of Warcraft Direct:
1. WoW, 11.1 reveal and maybe some tease from Midnight (concept art or some small story reveal, actual screenshot unlikely).
2. Warcraft Rumble, I have 0 interest in this game and have never played it, so no idea, but there'll be news and reveals.
3. Hearthstone, it's been 5+ years since I last played it, but I've seen a new expansion came out a few days ago, so that's it.
4. Warcraft 2 Remaster revealed, though after Reforged experience, I'm not optimistic.
5. Warcraft 3 Reforged patch 2.0 reveal, which will bring reimplementing all missing features from the original game, additional bug fixing, some performance improvements and maybe some balance changes.

All in all, 95% of the panel I expect to be about WoW and Rumble. They messed up big time with Reforged and it's sadly too late for it now, so I don't expect anything major.
 
Level 20
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
1,265
What I expect from 30 years of Warcraft Direct:
1. WoW, 11.1 reveal and maybe some tease from Midnight (concept art or some small story reveal, actual screenshot unlikely).
2. Warcraft Rumble, I have 0 interest in this game and have never played it, so no idea, but there'll be news and reveals.
3. Hearthstone, it's been 5+ years since I last played it, but I've seen a new expansion came out a few days ago, so that's it.
4. Warcraft 2 Remaster revealed, though after Reforged experience, I'm not optimistic.
5. Warcraft 3 Reforged patch 2.0 reveal, which will bring reimplementing all missing features from the original game, additional bug fixing, some performance improvements and maybe some balance changes.

All in all, 95% of the panel I expect to be about WoW and Rumble. They messed up big time with Reforged and it's sadly too late for it now, so I don't expect anything major.
These seem like realistic expectations.
 
Level 1
Joined
Jun 18, 2023
Messages
3
A Warcraft 2 Remaster would be interesting. If it's in the same engine, I hope at least that they implement QoL things like smart- and quick casting. And the ability to cast a spell on the unit icon so that Paladins can keep up with Ogre-Mages.
 
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They're gonna break basic stuff all over again, aren't they?
As a former United States president once said on Joe Rogan in response to the question, "Do you think that we have aliens coming, you know, flying around, or whatever?" we could answer your question likewise:

"There's no reason not to!"

... and such is the totally reasonable world we live in.
 

Dr Super Good

Spell Reviewer
Level 64
Joined
Jan 18, 2005
Messages
27,287
Likely going to break custom maps, but could be a major change to Warcraft III melee. Could easily be entire DLC races as that is a staple business model for Microsoft RTS games.

I guess that as long as they do not break the editor's backwards compatibility support, map developers could always try and fix anything that breaks in their maps. Of course it would kill 20 years of custom map content for maps that have been abandoned...
 
Level 13
Joined
Feb 3, 2019
Messages
814
Imo, the best things we can hope for regarding Reforged:

1. (Re)Implementing all the missing features from Classic.
2. Additional bug fixes and performance improvements.
3. Return of the balance from patch 1.26.
4. (Re)Implement all the models from Reforged beta like wip Succubus or different models for Malfurion in the Campaign.
5. Additional visual improvements, e.g surrounding.
6. The update won't create even more bugs and ruin everything (like every time till now).

I put the list in order, 1 being most likely to 6 being least likely.
 
Level 15
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
148
Imo, the best things we can hope for regarding Reforged:

1. (Re)Implementing all the missing features from Classic.
2. Additional bug fixes and performance improvements.
3. Return of the balance from patch 1.26.
4. (Re)Implement all the models from Reforged beta like wip Succubus or different models for Malfurion in the Campaign.
5. Additional visual improvements, e.g surrounding.
6. The update won't create even more bugs and ruin everything (like every time till now).

I put the list in order, 1 being most likely to 6 being least likely.
Ironically, 6 is the one I desire the most.
 
Level 4
Joined
Jan 9, 2024
Messages
39
Imo, the best things we can hope for regarding Reforged:

1. (Re)Implementing all the missing features from Classic.
2. Additional bug fixes and performance improvements.
3. Return of the balance from patch 1.26.
4. (Re)Implement all the models from Reforged beta like wip Succubus or different models for Malfurion in the Campaign.
5. Additional visual improvements, e.g surrounding.
6. The update won't create even more bugs and ruin everything (like every time till now).

I put the list in order, 1 being most likely to 6 being least likely.
What models are different from the Beta mentioned in item 4? Do you have a picture of them?
 
Do you have a picture of them?
I think I started this trend by uploading things like here:


But part of the issue is that the Beta versions of Reforged, especially early on, had a different model format from both TFT in the old days and Reforged that we have today. So I forward-ported some of this stuff while trying to change as little as possible. In a case like the above, I probably originally updated these almost-unchanged forward ports, but the moderators reviewed or edited the models and did custom game import optimizations like removing LOD data, instead of offering downloads of the exactly historical file forward-ported.

But you can probably get the idea. There were just a bunch of random visual changes back when things were getting worked on.

Furion in the Reign of Chaos 2002 game had a different model that MalFurion in the 2003 Frozen Throne. Originally Reforged had its own new "HD" models for both:


This is a reforged artwork from Blizzard/lemonsky, but you wont find it in your game install, etc.

(He wears a cape of leaves instead of a fur cape)

Edit: but suggesting they would put removed content back in the game is just silly. That's like saying they should put old RoC beta models from 2001 back into the game or something, just for fun because custom gamers like to use those files. Microsoft is running a business. They have to focus on what opens wallets.
 
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Level 38
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
2,880
I think I started this trend by uploading things like here:


But part of the issue is that the Beta versions of Reforged, especially early on, had a different model format from both TFT in the old days and Reforged that we have today. So I forward-ported some of this stuff while trying to change as little as possible. In a case like the above, I probably originally updated these almost-unchanged forward ports, but the moderators reviewed or edited the models and did custom game import optimizations like removing LOD data, instead of offering downloads of the exactly historical file forward-ported.

But you can probably get the idea. There were just a bunch of random visual changes back when things were getting worked on.

Furion in the Reign of Chaos 2002 game had a different model that MalFurion in the 2003 Frozen Throne. Originally Reforged had its own new "HD" models for both:


This is a reforged artwork from Blizzard/lemonsky, but you wont find it in your game install, etc.

(He wears a cape of leaves instead of a fur cape)

Edit: but suggesting they would put removed content back in the game is just silly. That's like saying they should put old RoC beta models from 2001 back into the game or something, just for fun because custom gamers like to use those files. Microsoft is running a business. They have to focus on what opens wallets.
i still want my alpha druid of the talon 7__7
 
i still want my alpha druid of the talon
I'm getting old. If Microsoft published an art bundle with alpha druid of the talon, and alpha priestess of the moon, and basically every other art file from the 2001-2002 alpha screenshots, I think I would buy that art file even if it was a download of a zip that cost a $500-$1000 unlock per person. I would buy it even if it was only in the .scene format of the 3ds max 4.9 version or whatever from those days, where they were giving out the original source material that nobody at Microsoft even had software to open up anymore. It would be so fun to get that, and to port that to Frozen Throne format to share on Hive, and I have exactly the technology necessary to pull that off, all available in my arsenal in some place or in some form.

But when I mentioned something like this in a youtube comment to Designer Dave, he said that while he worked at Blizzard (which was long past 2003 frozen throne release and into early days of WoW) there were multiple "huge data loss" events at Blizzard. So, I think what that means is that these files no longer exist on any computer on planet earth. They cannot be recovered because they do not exist.

However, when I fall too far down that rabbit hole, I begin to realize that I can also construct stuff on my computer that someone may wish for in 20 years, which will likewise not exist then, like this video of me playing something with some almost-alpha-looking bits and pieces, although the video is a recording from 2022 of a game that I created on LibGDX game engine in the modern day. Or this, or this, or even this.
 
Level 8
Joined
May 26, 2017
Messages
135
At this point my only wish is that they give us an HD version respecting of Classic graphics, something very similar to this.

1731449316333.png


1731449342523.png
 
my only wish is that they give us an HD version respecting of Classic graphics
So, from my standpoint as somebody who indulges in technology and modding, can we agree that if Microsoft actually does what you are saying, that it would make the game technology even more chaotic? Reforged did not only add new art files. It added new code to process that art. This is to say, they were not interested in preserving the 2002 art technology inside the game and adding more of the same, but rather in selling a newer and shinier thing with the best technology available today regardless of what Warcraft III system internals had been for 18 years.

Because of that, to be honest, I hope that if Microsoft creates what you are saying, that they do so with some kind of new game release that sells independently, and not as a frankenstein client. When I say a "frankenstein client," I am imagining a client that plays Reforged, or "War3HD" as you imagine it, or Frozen Throne graphics. These are too many graphics modes. It would be simpler and easier to sell two different things, like how Age of Empires 2 HD and the Age of Empires 2 DE are two separate games and do not need to cross play between them.

Do you agree? If you do not agree, then you make me sad, because I am tired of the code for the Frozen Throne original becoming more and more complicated until -- what I personally see as maybe an originally beautifully elegant computer program in a strange way (one which I struggle to describe) -- becomes unrecognizably complex to mod.
 
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