The resources search is garbage

[Xonok]

There are a few things the new search does differently, making it much less useful.
The most primary of all is that it ignores parameters on some conditions.
For instance, if I go and write JetFangInferno as author, this is what it gives me.

The issue seems to be that unless you input something into the "Search..." field it will ignore everything else and just give you some random(?) resources.
This makes the search far inferior to what we had previously. I can no longer look at all attachments from a certain person by using the search. Instead I've found the optimal way is to go to JetFangInferno's profile and look at resources from there. This approach has the issue that unless I am looking for resources from a specific author, I won't have this option. It would be best if the resource search actually did what I told it to. Similar issues apply to all other settings too, as far as I've seen.
Meanwhile I've practically stopped using the search, because it's such a waste of time. It feels like I'm just scrolling through the entire list of approved resources instead of actually using a search like it tells me I am.

 

[Chaosy]

I have complained about this in the past, did not help.
Search is pretty garbage.

I search for "grass"
Scythe
RuinedCurvedWall
GreeneTech
Bulbasaur
Direhorn / Triceratops

To be fair I did not search by title, but quite frankly it is still bad.

 

[Ralle]

Can’t explain the author thing. Last I checked, it worked as expected. I will have to take a look.

@Chaosy all the results you list have grass in the description. It works as designed for the results you listed.

I know it may seem garbage to you, but I hold most of these things dearly. I love feedback but calling my work garbage makes me sad. I’d much rather have you say you found a bug or have an idea for improvement.

 

[Mechanical Man]

The non intuitive part is that on resource page you have textbox for author, but if you want to use keyword to search you must click a link first. Because if you are searching specific thing you are more often interested in a keyword than the author. Not to mention everything this is at the bottom and you need to scroll way down to access them, while a the top are seldomly used tags and since they are so many only few first are on the starting scroll position, a position that would be fit better with the textbox and link which now lie at the bottom of the Resource Filters panel.

 

[GhostWolf]

The non intuitive part is that on resource page you have textbox for author, but if you want to use keyword to search you must click a link first. Because if you are searching specific thing you are more often interested in a keyword than the author. Not to mention everything this is at the bottom and you need to scroll way down to access them, while a the top are seldomly used tags and since they are so many only few first are on the starting scroll position, a position that would be fit better with the textbox and link which now lie at the bottom of the Resource Filters panel.

This.

I search for "grass"

I am not sure what you want to do about getting supposedly bad results, because users added bad tags. That's a human error, not a search one.
Seems like fixing tags is the answer, but who does that?

That being said, here's a search for "grass" in the model section, which seems to work fine: Search Results for Query: grass | HIVE
I am not quite sure what query parameters you used, I just put "grass" in the keyword search.

 

[Ralle]

Based on the link you used, @Xonok, it shows that you didn't enter any author.

I just tried to reproduce what you said you did:

step by step

I'm not sure how your search failed. But no matter what, it was either doing something wrong technically or confusing to use.

 

[KILLCIDE]

Seems like fixing tags is the answer, but who does that?

I'm doing that for the Spell Section I'm currently conflicted on whether or not I should fix the tags for Substandard.

 

[Chaosy]

This.



I am not sure what you want to do about getting supposedly bad results, because users added bad tags. That's a human error, not a search one.
Seems like fixing tags is the answer, but who does that?

That being said, here's a search for "grass" in the model section, which seems to work fine: Search Results for Query: grass | HIVE
I am not quite sure what query parameters you used, I just put "grass" in the keyword search.

Fair enough, but to me it only matters that I get invalid results, I do not really care why.
Benefit of not being in charge.
And honestly, it is not even that bad since those invalid results were 10% of the page or something.

It is in combination with the other annoyances that it gets bad.
I cannot stress enough how annoying it is to have the search input under advanced search. It should be at the very top of the first page in my opinion.
There are other reasons which I have specified in other threads in the past so I will leave it at that.

 

[Xonok]

This is what I did:

Seems you used a different page. What about the options down below?

 

[Ralle]

Bug confirmed. When you use the quick search top right to search inside a repository, the author field is ignored.

The page I used is one you get to by either:
a. Hit the search field, hit advanced, and go to 'search bundles and resources'.
or
b. on any repository listing, in the sidebar scroll down to 'Keyword & Filter Search...'.

The options on the page you screenshot are simple filter options. The ones I gave you directions to are the more advanced ones.

 

[Xonok]

Bug confirmed, Ralle is a double-poster.
Well, the way you use the search seems to actually work, so maybe it's not that bad.

 

[deepstrasz]

I know what this calls out for, a "how to search" thread/guide with pictures, examples and all...

 

[Ralle]

As soon as you need a guide (we probably do) you have failed. What I mean is that if a feature used by so many people needs a manual, it is simply not easy enough to use.

 

[Rui]

Seems like fixing tags is the answer, but who does that?

There have been people with the patience

I agree tagging and categorization are part of the problem, though. I'd do it old style, like I did once with @VGsatomi, sweeping through the Map section when the Footman Frenzy category was introduced. Make a study to create appropriate categories and avoid throwing everything to miscellaneous, write some guidelines, assemble a crew, and go on a sweeping through the resource sections. It has to be done with people of strong will, of course

 

[Xonok]

Ideally I'd just like the parameters to work without having to go into a different page. Right now appearance-wise the 2 places for searching seem like they would do the same thing, but one of them is not really working properly. Do we actually have 2 different search systems in the background or something?

 

[Ralle]

One is filtering of what is in each repository. Maps, Templates, Models, Icons, Skins, Tools, etc are all separate repositories. The simple filters filter only the repository you look at. However the search page can search across multiple repositories. Ideally we need a third. One that is very much empasized and custom made for our needs.

 

[Kyrbi0]

I'm glad this is being discussed; while I was fine with the change from Boolean OR to AND, and appreciate the fine-tuned options now available for searching.

However, I too have had problems with all this, to the point that, I must about, I simply use Google to search the Hive for models. :<

Part of it is that "type in an author, get everything else too" bit. I also agree with how the front-facing Search part is strangely half-/mal-functional, while the back-facing Search is "working" but bloated & confusing.

 

[Rui]

However, I too have had problems with all this, to the point that, I must about, I simply use Google to search the Hive for models. :<

I do this too. Not sure how well the strategy works for resources, but, when searching help threads, I've
always found what I was looking for using Google (and restricting search to this site).

 

[dreambeliever]

There are a few things the new search does differently, making it much less useful.
The most primary of all is that it ignores parameters on some conditions.
For instance, if I go and write JetFangInferno as author, this is what it gives me.
View attachment 295397
The issue seems to be that unless you input something into the "Search..." field it will ignore everything else and just give you some random(?) resources.
This makes the search far inferior to what we had previously. I can no longer look at all attachments from a certain person by using the search. Instead I've found the optimal way is to go to JetFangInferno's profile and look at resources from there. This approach has the issue that unless I am looking for resources from a specific author, I won't have this option. It would be best if the resource search actually did what I told it to. Similar issues apply to all other settings too, as far as I've seen.
Meanwhile I've practically stopped using the search, because it's such a waste of time. It feels like I'm just scrolling through the entire list of approved resources instead of actually using a search like it tells me I am.

I have also complained. It's kinda useless

 

[Ralle]

It's kinda useless that you didn't read the posts in this thread. I confirmed it to be a bug. The rest was just Xonok not having found all the features. Your post is useless as it does not contribute anything but a foul mood. Be constructive or don't post at all.

 

[Wareditor]

When searching for "Twilight Incinerate" in the models section using the top right search bar, no results will be found. However a model with this exact name exists here.

 

[deepstrasz]

When searching for "Twilight Incinerate" in the models section using the top right search bar, no results will be found. However a model with this exact name exists here.

Search results don't bring up Substandard resources from what I can remember.

 

[Wareditor]

@deepstrasz
I thought so too myself but the substandard resources I tried appear when searching for them.

 

[Ralle]

When I go here:
Search Bundles and Resources | HIVE

and do the same but enabling substandard, it works as expected.

 

[Wareditor]

Doesn't change the fact that it doesn't appear when using the top right search in the model section.
If we aren't supposed to be using that search then it shouldn't be here.

 

[Ralle]

The top right search is meant to be sort of a quick search using default settings. The default setting is to hide substandard. It is meant to be used, just not to find substandard resources.

 

[pick-a-chew]

I would like to chime in and add that there are lots of useful resources that are substandard. I have lost count of the amount of times i do multiple quick searches, find nothing, and before giving up i check substandard resources and you find exactly what you was hoping to find.

Substandard resources are marked so because they're usually recolors/minor edits of existing resources. They're still useful and in most cases good quality. After all this time I have adapted to using all the search filters, but I feel as if those who are less acquainted with the site may not find what they seek due to the quick search function.

If anything I would recommend differentiating substandard into actual substandard (low-quality) and useful (unoriginal) but i know this wont happen so I'll just keep dreaming

 

[Wareditor]

@Ralle As I said some substandard bundles appear using that search.
Look at this quick search. This substandard bundle appear in it.
The search seems inconsistent.

 

[Ralle]

Agreed. I'm also not denying that there are a great many things that could be better with the way search works.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Could that be enabled? Set the default top-right Search Bar to include "Substandard"

(I feel like, once again, thet nomenclature itself is a barrier here... "Substandard & "(Standard)" are just not an optimal setup for how we should use, understand, & feel about those resources.)

 

[Krolan]

Just a thing which probably matter to me too much, henceforth porbably not the most pressing issue, but I can never seem to get the sorting to work. (You know, those buttons at the top bar listing "Name, Date, etc.")

I am just that guy who likes things chronologicly, and While it lists by default, when the last comment was written in order, I want to see what was most recently updated/uploaded (explicitly in the Maps Section, more explicitly RPG and Custom Campaign).

One would think that clicking "Date" (the 2nd button from the left) will give me exactly that, but it obviously only lists upload date, and yet, still, it shows me in order "2018-2008-2017-2017-2018-2009" (this is an example)

For me it is extremely annoying, I acknowledge though that for most that's of little relevance.

 

[TriggerHappy]

I agree with including substandard resources in searches, at least for maps. Some maps are hard to find because of this. For example:

Final Fantasy Forever release 1c

^ does not show up in search queries.

 

[Chaosy]

Actually, somewhat simple solution.

If there are less than X results show substandard.
If I am looking for a Fishing System, I only need one result (or 2-3 depending on language) so if I get 10 matches I probably do not need to see the substandard ones.
But if there is 0-3 maybe it would be useful.

While it does not cover all use cases, I think it is entirely positive for those cases it does affect.

 

[deepstrasz]

Hey, would you guys implement a way to eliminate/filter resources based on usernames? Say I want to search "dinosaur" in Models but don't want to see resources from a specific user.

 

[Misha]

i don't know how much work that would be, but we definitely need content filtering. and to be able to set it up and change directly from browsing pages.
content filtered by name of the author with check-boxes to tick, to exclude models, textures, spells, other resources, and even authors themselves.
should probably have a long list, like the ignore list

 

[Deleted member 219079]

On Monday stream Grubby tried to search Warlock on hive, from many pages. First while within Maps & Resources index, but that search carried out a site-wide search. Then he found advanced search from maps page, and searched for Warlock from the top-right text field, again ending up with a site-wide search. He then was given a link to the map by his chat. Hive has an appealing, fancy UI but that doesn't guarantee good UX, which imo fails at error prevention here. I propose site-wide versus section-specific search context be explicitly notated about the search field, and ridding advanced search from text field of simple one. Also advanced search should default to search of the section user came from, and its list control should be alphabetically ordered and occupy more screen estate.

What comes to scolding calling your product garbage: does that not lead to a more tense atmosphere where people beware their input? I'd gladly receive feedback this 'offensive', given the problem was politely described in OP. I doubt this thread was meant for hate-mongering, but to give feedback, and 'garbage' was used as a mean of emphasizing one's message. We're all here to spend free time and I doubt no one strives to be a beacon of formality, over-policing leads to emigration, which is bad for the last Western WC3 modding community.

 

[deepstrasz]

On Monday stream Grubby tried to search Warlock on hive, from many pages. First while within Maps & Resources index, but that search carried out a site-wide search.

I have no idea what you are talking about. When I search Warlock in Maps, the map comes first in the search field and only maps are shown...

 

[Kyrbi0]

It's not a matter of "policing", it's a matter of basic respect. There's no need to use such unequivocally rude/harsh language, period.

On that note, there's a big difference between "constructive critique" & "criticism", and your post is a good example of the former, while the title "search is garbage" is more the latter.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

It's not a matter of "policing", it's a matter of basic respect. There's no need to use such unequivocally rude/harsh language, period.

Sure, but I didn't say there's a need. For example, I seek to distance myself from exercise of insensitive speech. But this is about publicly condemning the use of word 'garbage' as a descriptor of user error prone search functionality. I argue we should focus on the message conveyed by words, not words in themselves. One could argue 'what, are you justifying use of n word, r word and other slurs?', but this is different, because uttering racial/ableist slurs normalizes their use, and is in turn harmful towards people of color / with disabilities. In essence, I don't think it's condemnable to use 'garbage' to refer to 'bad', because (like I said previously) it's probably intended as a mean of emphasizing one's message, not monger hate.

title

Quality of title has nothing to do with quality of content.

 

[Wareditor]

It's not the first time Grubby is trying to search stuff on Hive and fails to find it. Hive's research system has always been pretty bad and unless you know the right way of using it you will rarely find what you are looking for. I think it should be adressed before Reforged's release if Ralle can find the time.

 

[WhiteFang]

It could use some work,but i wouldn't call it garbage.I'm still able to find what I want,most of the time.

 

[Xonok]

This thread was a while back. While it would be nice if normal search didn't ignore tags, advanced search works fine, so I have no further objection.

 

[Ralle]

The UX is indeed garbage. I am well aware of that. This is the second time Grubby tries to use our search on stream without success. I have some plans for a way to improve it when in our upcoming XenForo 2.0 release.

 

[doom_sheep]

For the love of god, let us search icons in a grid. There is no reason why 64x64 pixel images should be limited to 10 on your monitor at a time.

Also, while searching for the warcraft 2 bloodlust icon I couldn't find it no matter what... until searching "btnbloodlust" instead. Might want to take a look at that.

 

[deepstrasz]

Also, while searching for the warcraft 2 bloodlust icon I couldn't find it no matter what... until searching "btnbloodlust" instead. Might want to take a look at that.

Can confirm.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Hey, now a grid is a great idea (for icons at least). : )

 

[Ether]

Doesn't look garbage to me. I usually find things I am searching for. You just have to scroll your way down.

Wanna know which really is suckingly problematic?
The filters. Whenever I try to put some tag and apply filters like "undead and missile"
Damn, I get really out of place results. I even see an orc unit and that orc guy is 100% not neither undead nor missile. And there's a lot more unrelated.

 

[deepstrasz]

The filters. Whenever I try to put some tag and apply filters like "undead and missile"
Damn, I get really out of place results. I even see an orc unit and that orc guy is 100% not neither undead nor missile. And there's a lot more unrelated.

That's because of the uploaders choosing more tags than necessary for their resources.

Doesn't look garbage to me. I usually find things I am searching for. You just have to scroll your way down.

doom_sheep is right. Not everything related to what you write shows in the search not even if a resource name contains a word you've written. It's trying to be too exact and that's not good, it's restrictive.

 

[Ether]

That's because of the uploaders choosing more tags than necessary for their resources.

doom_sheep is right. Not everything related to what you write shows in the search not even if a resource name contains a word you've written. It's trying to be too exact and that's not good, it's restrictive.

I think there is an option where one can select where forum to find it. If I check 'model section' only or anything else, the search will work on it.

When I want my skins, I check the advanced options with skins repositories only then I see skins. I guess that is what the checkboxy features want to werk.

 

[deepstrasz]

I think there is an option where one can select where forum to find it. If I check 'model section' only or anything else, the search will work on it.

No. I tried doom_sheep's search on the general field and the proper icon field and the same. Plus, when searching for a specific type of resource you don't want other stuff in the way.