Staff Changes(?)

[Septimus]

purplepoot should be back at director, the map section been in bad shape lately..

 

[~Void~]

Only if he wants to.

 

[Septimus]

About mecheon being a global moderator, I disagree about it considering he was rather quick in action upon being told.

 

[Formula1]

It frustrates me to think that all you guys are thinking about is Getting a few moderators back into power...
THe fact we need to depend on these "Benevolent Dictators" to save the Forum.
We need to change bigger things, the way our system works, in order to make sure that it doesn't matter who takes power, since everyone will do the same job.
Being a mod should be about policy, not about personality. You're a tool for the good and protection of this forum.

It frustrating to see everyone put all the hope on a few users instead of looking at the bigger picture

 

[PurplePoot]

We need to change bigger things, the way our system works, in order to make sure that it doesn't matter who takes power, since everyone will do the same job.

Yeah, right...

Being a mod should be about policy, not about personality. You're a tool for the good and protection of this forum.

You know those druggies you had in your high school? Policy is no drugs, and they were still doing them.

It frustrating to see everyone put all the hope on a few users instead of looking at the bigger picture

Excessive optimism kills.

And about a few posts back, I like how in your eyes the only profession in wc3 modding is art.

 

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

About mecheon being a global moderator, I disagree about it considering he was rather quick in action upon being told.

It will only change the title. His powers remain the same.

 

[Vegavak]

If only you weren't blind to the fact that I already have. I've done what I needed to do.

You of all people should know that I was just trying to get you to step up and take a more commanding position on the matter.

 

[Septimus]

I remember Mecheon told me that he did not have the authority to view chat log, which are certainly something he should be allowed to access considering he was the rules enforcer.

 

[Formula1]

1)Yeah, right...

2) You know those druggies you had in your high school? Policy is no drugs, and they were still doing them.

3) Excessive optimism kills.

4) And about a few posts back, I like how in your eyes the only profession in wc3 modding is art.

DO you really want me to respond to this?
It sounds more like a pessemistic tone rather then an actual thought.
1) When it comes to deletion, its based on Regulations; Not enough downloads within the week. etc.
2) Which is why we also have the ability to Complain about our moderators... What a great concept! -_-
3) I'm not being Excessively optimistic, I'm just trying my best. This isn't the first time and Probably won't be the last time I've had to deal with people that trust the system more then themselves
4) You knew what I meant, don't be a dick

 

[Septimus]

1) When it comes to deletion, its based on Regulations; Not enough downloads within the week. etc.
2) Which is why we also have the ability to Complain about our moderators... What a great concept! -_-
3) I'm not being Excessively optimistic, I'm just trying my best. This isn't the first time and Probably won't be the last time I've had to deal with people that trust the system more then themselves
4) You knew what I meant, don't be a dick

1) Having not enough download ? That won't be fair, some map goes unnoticed even though it was well develop because the game genre is not that type people often play. A good example would be melee map genre. Implement this system would resulted into multiple upload map, which is not a good sign of it.
2) We could complain it via admin contact instead at here, which could possibly start drama, did't we ?
3) We know you are trying your best to keep this community at mint shape, everybody want this community to be at the best. Did't we ?
4) Keep the remark less hostile, as some people could feel offended. It probably nothing, but just to tell you.

 

[Formula1]

1) Having not enough download ? That won't be fair, some map goes unnoticed even though it was well develop because the game genre is not that type people often play. A good example would be melee map genre. Implement this system would resulted into multiple upload map, which is not a good sign of it.
2) We could complain it via admin contact instead at here, which could possibly start drama, did't we ?
3) We know you are trying your best to keep this community at mint shape, everybody want this community to be at the best. Did't we ?
4) Keep the remark less hostile, as some people could feel offended. It probably nothing, but just to tell you.

1) was an example... wasn't necessarilly fact, But its those types of standards.
2) Maybe the Drama Needs to be there, Creates awareness and Turns an personal issue into a forum issue. And moderator Hate Certianly is a Forum issue.
3) I agree, and I hope. Sometimes, I get the feeling everyone just trusts whatever decision is made will be the right one.... Which I disagree with
4)My Bad.... But He was Being Way too sarcastic... An Artist can Be a modeler, a musician, Anything... An artist doesn't mean just drawings... It frustrated me...

 

[Septimus]

1) Ok, it was a example, but I do not think it was a very good example considering it could probably create more problem if we really do implement it. We need a really 100% efficient system, but that might take time especially if we want to convince the staff to implement the necessary system.
2) But, we need to know. Sometimes it could turn into a rotten incident which gradually lead to flame war and cause the discussion to have little to no benefict to both side.
4) Just be patient, everybody are entitle to have their own opinion even if we do not like it due to it being sarcastic.

 

[PurplePoot]

DO you really want me to respond to this?
It sounds more like a pessemistic tone rather then an actual thought.
1) When it comes to deletion, its based on Regulations; Not enough downloads within the week. etc.
2) Which is why we also have the ability to Complain about our moderators... What a great concept! -_-
3) I'm not being Excessively optimistic, I'm just trying my best. This isn't the first time and Probably won't be the last time I've had to deal with people that trust the system more then themselves
4) You knew what I meant, don't be a dick

0) Great way to get the other person motivated to reply...

1) And you are assuming people will follow them.

2) Don't just appoint randomly to start with and you'll have to do this less.

3) Lolwut. People who disagree with you can't be trusted since they don't think?

4) No, I actually didn't, or I would'n't've said that, would I?

4)My Bad.... But He was Being Way too sarcastic... An Artist can Be a modeler, a musician, Anything... An artist doesn't mean just drawings... It frustrated me...

I was referring to map makers... And no, an artist is not just 'anything'.

Remind me how I was being sarcastic.

 

[Formula1]

0) Great way to get the other person motivated to reply...
1) And you are assuming people will follow them.
2) Don't just appoint randomly to start with and you'll have to do this less.
3) Lolwut. People who disagree with you can't be trusted since they don't think?
4) No, I actually didn't, or I would'n't've said that, would I?

I was referring to map makers... And no, an artist is not just 'anything'.

Your posts aren't exactly freindly.
Despite everyone putting you on a pedestal, and My original respect for you because of your fun little avatar. Clearly you don't seem to be one that cares for ethics much.
If It looks like I don't care, I do, I'm just an idiot when it comes to talking.

Maybe you don't understand, And I doubt you care to.
Basically I'm saying being a moderator should be left to people who actually WANT to moderate. If Moderating was a burden, who would moderate besides the people willing to sacrifice their time.

Something like Being a critic is different, since anyone can be a critic, while some would be more official then others. A Mod Gives out very Concrete Reasons for deleting material. The Only thing I want from a moderator is the ability to be Self aware. To Recognize when they are being out of line and talk to the admins about protocol when dealing with certain issues. I want them to be sensitive robots. THey do their job but feel bad if they wronged a person. Thats the only request from them. I don't care if they are good are Jass like you or Good at drawing. Character Means more to me then Skills.

I want a helpful moderator, not some Child Prodigy thats too cocky for his own good.


An artist does mean anything, Music is an art. Maybe you just don't define art like that, but I do. Its a break Of Definition. SORRY IF YOU DIDN"T UNDERSTAND BUDDY

 

[Kwah]

Moderators must be competent in their fields.

 

[PurplePoot]

Your posts aren't exactly freindly.
Despite everyone putting you on a pedestal, and My original respect for you because of your fun little avatar. Clearly you don't seem to be one that cares for ethics much.
If It looks like I don't care, I do, I'm just an idiot when it comes to talking.

If you say you tend to offend people because you're bad at phrasing things, then why are you acting so surprised when they come out as hostile towards you?

Maybe you don't understand, And I doubt you care to.
Basically I'm saying being a moderator should be left to people who actually WANT to moderate. If Moderating was a burden, who would moderate besides the people willing to sacrifice their time.

Yes and no. They need to be capable, and of course they need to want to (otherwise they would never accept...), except that doesn't mean you should accept the ones that ask for it - those types are usually the power-crazed nuts who are counterproductive because they're in it solely for themselves.

Something like Being a critic is different, since anyone can be a critic, while some would be more official then others. A Mod Gives out very Concrete Reasons for deleting material. The Only thing I want from a moderator is the ability to be Self aware. To Recognize when they are being out of line and talk to the admins about protocol when dealing with certain issues. I want them to be sensitive robots. THey do their job but feel bad if they wronged a person. Thats the only request from them. I don't care if they are good are Jass like you or Good at drawing. Character Means more to me then Skills.

Good luck with that... the understaffing problem THW has is that there are not enough good candidates.

I want a helpful moderator, not some Child Prodigy thats too cocky for his own good.

If they are so, then they don't fit the moderator type in the first place.

An artist does mean anything, Music is an art. Maybe you just don't define art like that, but I do. Its a break Of Definition. SORRY IF YOU DIDN"T UNDERSTAND BUDDY

Music is an art indeed. Coding, mathematics, or chemistry, for example, are not.

And if you break definitions, then how do you possibly expect people to understand what you mean? That would be like me saying to someone that they were an idiot, then when they took it badly, saying that I had redefined idiot to mean smart.

 

[Formula1]

Yes and no. They need to be capable, and of course they need to want to (otherwise they would never accept...), except that doesn't mean you should accept the ones that ask for it - those types are usually the power-crazed nuts who are counterproductive because they're in it solely for themselves.

Not everyone saying "ME ME ME!" is fit for the job, However, We also don't know that for fact.
A problem with moderation right now is that a lot of it is "Jugdement call"
Unfortunately for us, Many people have Poor Judgement.
As a result, we must change things into "Yes/no"

If Powercrazed People screw up, they lose management position. As simple as that.
And of course finding a better way of Filtering everyone rather then saying "There are those that create stuff, and there are those that do not"
I think we haven't really looked into it and thats the real problem. We just casted it aside as a "NO FOKING WAY!" idea.... but when it comes down to it, we won't always have artists, especially the way this forum is going. People grow up, sometimes a generation isn't blessed with Any sort of talent. We need to prepare everyone for something like that. Its obvious the average user is treated like shet, while the Best of us is annoyed until insanity with requests.


Usually I don't expect to have people become hostile towards me, But it happens so much I've gotten used to it. Nobody want to hear my opinion whether as small as "What should we do" to as big as "What is the world coming to"

I've got a lot of opinions and no place to vent them to.
I hate diaries, and I'm not planning on being just another person who dies silently....
However, I'm not sure how much of chance I have.
I can scream, but nobody is listening.....

Either way, I don't really feel like telling you every detail of my psychology. The Point is, that We are people, and people make mistakes. I'm not sorry If I'm not perfect in grammer in every single way since I don't think thats as important as other things in life.
If you think it is, I'm sorry that you put that much priority on things. I'd rather speak with emotion then speak with perfect grammer.

Moderators must be competent in their fields.

why?

 

[Kwah]

So that they can give critique, and approve/disprove?

 

[PurplePoot]

Not everyone saying "ME ME ME!" is fit for the job, However, We also don't know that for fact.
A problem with moderation right now is that a lot of it is "Jugdement call"
Unfortunately for us, Many people have Poor Judgement.
As a result, we must change things into "Yes/no"

If Powercrazed People screw up, they lose management position. As simple as that.
And of course finding a better way of Filtering everyone rather then saying "There are those that create stuff, and there are those that do not"
I think we haven't really looked into it and thats the real problem. We just casted it aside as a "NO FOKING WAY!" idea.... but when it comes down to it, we won't always have artists, especially the way this forum is going. People grow up, sometimes a generation isn't blessed with Any sort of talent. We need to prepare everyone for something like that. Its obvious the average user is treated like shet, while the Best of us is annoyed until insanity with requests.

If there are no modders than there's no need for moderation, as there's no site. Also, what's the point of causing a catastrophe then fixing the problem once it's already occurred rather than just not causing the problem?

Usually I don't expect to have people become hostile towards me, But it happens so much I've gotten used to it. Nobody want to hear my opinion whether as small as "What should we do" to as big as "What is the world coming to"

I've got a lot of opinions and no place to vent them to.
I hate diaries, and I'm not planning on being just another person who dies silently....
However, I'm not sure how much of chance I have.
I can scream, but nobody is listening.....

Then please, work on wording your posts in a way that doesn't make people dislike you.

Either way, I don't really feel like telling you every detail of my psychology. The Point is, that We are people, and people make mistakes. I'm not sorry If I'm not perfect in grammer in every single way since I don't think thats as important as other things in life.
If you think it is, I'm sorry that you put that much priority on things. I'd rather speak with emotion then speak with perfect grammer.

Where does grammar fit into this?

why?

So that they can moderate them.

 

[Formula1]

So that they can give critique, and approve/disprove?

You don't need to Critique as a moderator. You see whether the Model/Resource works.
Then You tell them what they need to change.
-This isn't about eye candy unless talking about skins.
--Etc...

Its about facts...
If someone wants a critique, they should stalk down Ash and Let him go to town.

If there are no modders than there's no need for moderation, as there's no site. Also, what's the point of causing a catastrophe then fixing the problem once it's already occurred rather than just not causing the problem?

What is going on right now?
You left at one point, And honestly it would seem everyone of the "Leaders" would rather abandon ship except for a few people like Septimus and MasterHaosis whoare actually ASKING for a job.
Once all the leaders leave, who is left to mod, nobody, this site will sit dead hoping for new artists to come around and make stuff...
I think its important to start preparing people for the day when they won't have Competent Leaders to Take Care of them. Where they need to understand how to be responsible.

I think this is very important. If this site dies, would you rather see it remade by the very Noobs everyone hates this forum for, or watch it burn to the ground along with the hopes and dreams of hundreds of kids lost in a world where a rolemodel and a freind is about as hard to find on the internet as it is in real life....

Then please, work on wording your posts in a way that doesn't make people dislike you.

I don't know if I have a choice. I think its just a mix of the fact nobody respects me, and the fact I am confident in what I say.

Where does grammar fit into this?

Artist

So that they can moderate them.

You can moderate without being Competent in a feild
A Taste Tester Doesn't know how to cook, but knows what he likes

 

[Kwah]

You can moderate without being Competent in a feild

No, not well.

 

[Formula1]

No, not well.

Yeah, you can.
I know what I like.
Its just everyone likes Sucking up to someone that actually Creates.
More value has been put on being a "productive" member, rather then a member that makes worth while stuff

 

[Kwah]

No, you really can't.

You can't give critique, find bugs, or give proper suggestions.

 

[PurplePoot]

You don't need to Critique as a moderator. You see whether the Model/Resource works.
Then You tell them what they need to change.
-This isn't about eye candy unless talking about skins.
--Etc...

Its about facts...
If someone wants a critique, they should stalk down Ash and Let him go to town.

Look, someone can't moderate resources properly if they don't know the subject matter.

Let me give you an example:

A model is high poly. The moderator should be requiring the poly count be dropped, but if they don't know anything about modelling, how would they know whether it can and/or how to?

Another example:

A Jass spell is submitted. The moderators don't know Jass.

[...]

What is going on right now?
You left at one point, And honestly it would seem everyone of the "Leaders" would rather abandon ship except for a few people like Septimus and MasterHaosis whoare actually ASKING for a job.
Once all the leaders leave, who is left to mod, nobody, this site will sit dead hoping for new artists to come around and make stuff...
I think its important to start preparing people for the day when they won't have Competent Leaders to Take Care of them. Where they need to understand how to be responsible.

I think this is very important. If this site dies, would you rather see it remade by the very Noobs everyone hates this forum for, or watch it burn to the ground along with the hopes and dreams of hundreds of kids lost in a world where a rolemodel and a freind is about as hard to find on the internet as it is in real life....

I agree that they need to become self-sufficient, but this doesn't mean you should just semi-randomly promote people who seem like they want the job.

I don't know if I have a choice. I think its just a mix of the fact nobody respects me, and the fact I am confident in what I say.

Respect is earned, and plenty of respected people were confident in what they said long before they were respected. Hell, that's why they are respected.

Artist

First off, that has nothing to do with grammar. Second, if you honestly don't know what they mean because they've warped the language so much, what are you supposed to do?

You can moderate without being Competent in a feild
A Taste Tester Doesn't know how to cook, but knows what he likes

But the taste tester can't recommend how to fix what is wrong with the food, which is also the job of the moderator (if you don't approve, you have to explain why, among other things).

 

[Kwah]

Another example of needing to be competent in the field can be found here. I just randomly browsed the model section for one.

Necron Warrior - The Hive Workshop - A Warcraft III Modding Site

 

[Formula1]

Another example of needing to be competent in the field can be found here. I just randomly browsed the model section for one.

Necron Warrior - The Hive Workshop - A Warcraft III Modding Site

A moderator doesn't need to critique, they just need to follow orders and let the person know why they're model was accepted or not accepted.

SOme models that are awesome but incomplete I think should also be uploaded just because they are awesome.
-Thats debateable though. But something that should run through a Moderators mind.

Look, someone can't moderate resources properly if they don't know the subject matter.

Let me give you an example:

A model is high poly. The moderator should be requiring the poly count be dropped, but if they don't know anything about modelling, how would they know whether it can and/or how to?

Another example:

A Jass spell is submitted. The moderators don't know Jass.

[...]

FInding the Poly count of a model isn't that difficult. Many Modeling Programs can give you the Polycount right after you open it. Thats just a step by step tutorial.
The Jass Aspect however..... That changes things quite a bit.........
I can't say that People who don't know jass can Moderate the Jass aspect.... It would be irresponsible....
THe only choice available is to try and make Jass as Known as English, which would be a difficult task, but one worth seeking.
-The THings needed to be done with that is; Leaks, "What if interrupted?", MUI, etc.
--There needs to be a way to systematiclaly discover that, at least with tools of somekind...

Otherwise, I agree, Nobody should work with Jass Unless they know it

I agree that they need to become self-sufficient, but this doesn't mean you should just semi-randomly promote people who seem like they want the job.

True, But we need to start somewhere
Where Should we?

That's circular logic. Respect is earned, and plenty of respected people were confident in what they said long before they were respected. Hell, that's why they are respected.

Either way, I could Careless for the Time being. Its lonely, but I understand that I can't control other people. So if others don't like me, respectable. THe Best I can do is let them know, I want to like them and keep talking to them until we can come to an agreement.

First off, that has nothing to do with grammar. Second, if you honestly don't know what they mean because they've warped the language so much, what are you supposed to do?

I dunno.... What should I do?

But the taste tester can't recommend how to fix what is wrong with the food, which is also the job of the moderator (if you don't approve, you have to explain why, among other things).

He can't Make Judgements, But he knows why something tastes bad, Too much Salt, Whether Two instances go off at the same time, Error!, Lag over Time, My Hankey sure could use some Poopy Particle Emmiters....
Etc....
Not everyone is perfect, if someone wants to get a Good Critique, they can't talk to someone more experienced. THat way the person May or may not give them the time of day.


Artist=One who Creates something aesthetically Pleasing

The point is, Do we really want to restrict the Freedoms of every artist that comes in here to be forced to become a Moderator?
What if an artist just wants to be an Artist?
I just is a bit bothersome the fact that the only people that Do jobs


Just like there are Tutorials on how to make stuff.
We might benefit off of Tutorials on How to find errors and Fix stuff.

That Way Moderators don't need to spoon feed them anything.
-Also Errors and Leaks in jass Might be able to be recognized through an online program instead of having to test it.
--Finding Garbage Collected, Single PLayer Variables instead of Arrays, etc....

 

[PurplePoot]

FInding the Poly count of a model isn't that difficult. Many Modeling Programs can give you the Polycount right after you open it. Thats just a step by step tutorial.
The Jass Aspect however..... That changes things quite a bit.........
I can't say that People who don't know jass can Moderate the Jass aspect.... It would be irresponsible....
THe only choice available is to try and make Jass as Known as English, which would be a difficult task, but one worth seeking.
-The THings needed to be done with that is; Leaks, "What if interrupted?", MUI, etc.
--There needs to be a way to systematiclaly discover that, at least with tools of somekind...

Otherwise, I agree, Nobody should work with Jass Unless they know it

It would be stupidly difficult to write an effective leak checker, so no one has bothered. Easier to just read the code.

As for finding the polycount, that's easy. The problem is knowing how to fix it and whether it's applicable.

True, But we need to start somewhere
Where Should we?

By having the community learn to manage itself and not need to be babysat by the moderators at all.

I dunno.... What should I do?

Use the right words, please.

He can't Make Judgements, But he knows why something tastes bad, Too much Salt, Whether Two instances go off at the same time, Error!, Lag over Time, My Hankey sure could use some Poopy Particle Emmiters....
Etc....
Not everyone is perfect, if someone wants to get a Good Critique, they can't talk to someone more experienced. THat way the person May or may not give them the time of day.

Seems to me like that's the kind of person who should be doing the job in the first place, rather than adding more bureaucracy for the same result.

Artist=One who Creates something aesthetically Pleasing

The point is, Do we really want to restrict the Freedoms of every artist that comes in here to be forced to become a Moderator?
What if an artist just wants to be an Artist?
I just is a bit bothersome the fact that the only people that Do jobs

You aren't forced to be a moderator. Also, do coders/chemists/mathematicians do stuff that is "aesthetically pleasing"? No.

Just like there are Tutorials on how to make stuff.
We might benefit off of Tutorials on How to find errors and Fix stuff.

That Way Moderators don't need to spoon feed them anything.
-Also Errors and Leaks in jass Might be able to be recognized through an online program instead of having to test it.
--Finding Garbage Collected, Single PLayer Variables instead of Arrays, etc....

Someone needs to write the tutorials. And no, there is no way to effectively leak check, as I said above. Especially when code becomes really convoluted.

 

[Kwah]

DOUBLE POST.

FInding the Poly count of a model isn't that difficult. Many Modeling Programs can give you the Polycount right after you open it. Thats just a step by step tutorial.

But they don't know if that count is a reasonable number, do they?

I can't say that People who don't know jass can Moderate the Jass aspect.... It would be irresponsible....

The same applies to EVERYTHING, no?

Do we really want to restrict the Freedoms of every artist that comes in here to be forced to become a Moderator?

Erm. . . whut?

But he knows why something tastes bad

He often doesn't though, and tasting food is a irrelevant example.

 

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Methinks the thread has been derailed a bit.

 

[Formula1]

DOUBLE POST.
But they don't know if that count is a reasonable number, do they?

As an introduction to them moderating a section, you can tell them an appropiate number
-As simple as that

The same applies to EVERYTHING, no?

Jass is a Lot different from other things since it can't just be understood visually. Its like a whole nother language, while Polys are easy to understand.
-However, even with Jass you can tell if there are leaks, or MUI problems without knowing code

Erm. . . whut?

It seems like everyone that is good at something that comes to the hive ends up becoming a mod. So.... the people will have less time to do what they were good it and joined the hive for at first....
Giving responsibility to someone who is better off just creating stuff...

He often doesn't though, and tasting food is a irrelevant example.

You can taste Salts.
But With Models, You can see a Troll Looks too Fat or Bulky, with Jass, It has tons of leaks after using it alot.
it is relevent....

It would be stupidly difficult to write an effective leak checker, so no one has bothered. Easier to just read the code.

As for finding the polycount, that's easy. The problem is knowing how to fix it and whether it's applicable.

Well then, Education it is.....
Now How to get this done, Getting it to Ralle?
Getting more people involved/Excited for it?

By having the community learn to manage itself and not need to be babysat by the moderators at all.

I and I'm sure most people understand the ABstract Goal. But How do we GET to the Goal.

Use the right words, please.

Easier Said then Done

Seems to me like that's the kind of person who should be doing the job in the first place, rather than adding more bureaucracy for the same result.

Well, the guy also isn't skilled in the feild he critics/Moderates.... He's just doing his Job...

You aren't forced to be a moderator. Also, do coders/chemists/mathematicians do stuff that is "aesthetically pleasing"? No.

Yes in some ways, Chemists Make chemicals to aid humanity or hurt hmanity just like painters. Mathmaticians search for that perfect equation quite like a musicion looking for that perfect sound. A Coder is alot like a writer, only the writer became a dictator and started ordering the book to do things.

Someone needs to write the tutorials. And no, there is no way to effectively leak check, as I said above. Especially when code becomes really convoluted.

Now its about organization, Hopefully the Higher ups can organize a team, whether noobs or Jassers to create the tutorials. In a lot of ways I think people are capable of learning it by themselves, it just has never occured nor Clicked...

 

[MasterHaosis]

I don't even begin to understand the reasons why Haosis was ever a moderator in the first place. At least not by what I've seen of him in this thread.
[/FONT]

Ask Ralle and Wolverabid who reward me with reps with comment ,,The best map moderator" about that why was I promoted. You should ask many people who even day today send me PM to came back to test their maps again!
I am really tired of explain myself for some people.

Anyway Formula1 man you have great points I read all of your new messages and I am impressed with your knowledge!

Okay here is one question for you all especially for Rising_Dusk what would you all do and comment about this.
This XXXXX is member of staff here but cause I wont to cause more fights and dramas I wont say his name. Name is not important, behavior is.
Anyway I wont say name because I want you all to stay neutral and to comment as you think you should!

[19-43-15] Joe-black-5: XXXXX, are you here?
[19-43-36] XXXXX: Not for you.
[19-44-08] Joe-black-5: XXXXX, :/ can i have a moment of your time
[19-46-02] XXXXX: Depends what you want to do with that moment.
[19-46-05] Joe-black-5: hmm guess not some people here have no respect for others
[19-46-29] XXXXX: No respect for cunts, no.
[19-48-26] Joe-black-5: XXXXX, respect your self so others can respect you
[19-48-56] XXXXX: Ignore command it is!
[19-49-28] Joe-black-5: its better that way i speak to him with respect and he treats me like shit
[19-50-00] XXXXX: Respect has to be earned.

So I want to hear your opinions about this! This is one staff member in this site!
So should they act like this? I am calling this general idiocy.
Joe-black-5 is one friendly user and never offended anyone, he asked for help and look how he treated him, like last idiot!
It happened today in chat.

 

[PurplePoot]

WILL has a point, back to the original topic.

 

[Formula1]

Anyway Formula1 man you have great points I read all of your new messages and I am impressed with your knowledge!

THank you
I hope I'm clear enough so you actually understand it and it doesnt look like a bunch of mubbled words

So I want to hear your opinions about this! This is one staff member in this site!
So should they act like this? I am calling this general idiocy.
Joe-black-5 is one friendly user and never offended anyone, he asked for help and look how he treated him, like last idiot!
It happened today in chat.

Weird.... I'd say Respect can only be lost or go back to normal.
Either way, its a pretty serious isssue since its clear mods just don't care.
Poot Brings up an interesting point about not bringing just anybody in...
But I'd rather get someone from the Masses then keep going with the elites.

WILL has a point, back to the original topic.

I think we were getting somewhere...
Education of the newbies

Say we were... Cause you know we were...

 

[MasterHaosis]

Well man yeah you are right and clear for me. Of course I am trying to understand you and others.
And yes that is problem some mods just don't care. This must be solved as soon is possible!

 

[Gilles]

I totally just skipped from page two to this page, so I apologize for anything I may have missed, but I don't have the time to read 13 pages.

As for me being an arena moderator, I've been thinking about it, but like Hawkwing, I don't know if I can give 100% to it time wise. I can definitely try though. Also if Void was to become a Terrain Moderator, I'd gladly hand it all over to him and take arena on.

Hawkwing, would you be willing to return simply to help me run the arena? No other duties?

Another note: Apparently I'm a user message moderator. Not sure when I got that, but I have it now. Seems I gained a few things Hawkwing had.


Oh and if it hasn't been mentioned...

Dusk needs to take a damn title and icon.

Well I read a little more and I see Dusk is a normal user again. Way to emo quit there! : (
I think you should be a staff member, just take a global moderator type of position. Or staff advisor or something. I think people will get used to you. Once I started actually talking to you, I came to respect you pretty quickly, and God did I hate you when you first started poking around... no offense.

 

[Pyritie]

Good job, now that dusk's gone we won't get any of these changes. </3


@Formula1: Hell no would I want someone who can't model be moderating my models.

 

[Vegavak]

Some people are good mods
Some people are good artists
Some people are good judges of quality

A lot of people are one of three
Very few people are two of three
Even fewer people are all three

A lot of problems with staff is that you guys are trying to lump everything together, rather than delegate the jobs to the very people who will do them well. What's so wrong with the separation of jobs?

This doesn't mean that you can't have someone moderating AND checking quality of work, but this DOES mean you can have people doing just one job without having more conflicts. I find it hard to believe that every time someone posts about staff changes, or changes in general, absolutely nothing gets done.

 

[Shados]

Oh, I remember my third suggestion, kinda goes with moderation/adminstration transparency:

• There needs to be a clear power structure among the adminstration, with a defined hierarchy and line of command, so that each staff member knows who they are responsible to and in what order, all the way up to Ralle.

 

[Deathbringer]

Look guys

I agree with a lot of the stuff being said here, but as you all know, Warcraft 3 is a dying game, and less and less users are coming here to share their knowledge and their skills with us, just because they have moved on to better things, moved on to real life... etc.

I believe, that as long as warcraft 3 is still a driving force behind some people's lives, that we should make it a pleasant time for them here, at the Hive. THAT, my friends, includes doing one's job, not sitting around, flinging words of abuse at "lesser" users, noobs and so on.

It seems that most of the users, not to mention any names, have lost their "respect" for moderators, administrators, and new users to the site. Everyone had to start as a noob, you didn't come here instantly knowing everything there was to know about Warcraft 3. To make matters clear here, you had everything laid out for you here, tutorials, friendly staff and other users that were friendly and willing to help you learn and further increase your knowledge.

But, all this has degenerated into... a horrible mockery of what it once was!
No longer can a user create a thread in the forum, without being trolled, flamed, etc by users with more experience, for not being equal with them. I mean. Seriously, what the fuck has hapenned here?
Can people not contain their urge to be *sorry for being rude, but I must be plain here* assholes?

Another perfect example, I enter the chat. Now the chat has been nutorious as a haven for many rotten users, and I have experienced this in a number of times. A user enters the chat, seeking to discuss some matter with another user, when some "all knowing" user, bursts in and decides to tell him what a "noob" or what an "idiot" he is...
I mean, your spreading the disease, not making it better! We should be helping these users with less experience, not alienating them from the site!

This is exactly the reason why so many users are losing interest, and never coming back!
Look, what I'm trying to say here, is that we must act like rational people, we must contain our "brutish" as you might call it, nature, and instead replace it with kindness and helpfullness.

As you all know, Ralle created this site, for users who love warcraft 3 to come together, pool their knowledge, share their models, skins, icons... spells, maps, everything they can make, and enjoy together.
We must stop all this nonsense! We must stop acting like 7 year olds, bickering over some unimportant matter! If we cannot do so, then Ralle might just as well go and close the site, for all he has worked for, will have been lost, replaced by a horrid mob, urged on only by their lust for demeaning other users, and extending their "iron grip" over the site!

For gods sakes people, can't you grasp the fact?!? Act like the adults you should be acting like, be MATURE, and share some NORMALITY with other users! DO this, my friends, and you will be rewarded in kind by others.

Hellblazer-14

I think everyone needs to take a look at this reply and read through it heavily and take it in. I've been here for years now, and I can't even bring myself to post around here anymore because of all the bickering and childish idiocy that runs rampant, the personal attacks, the flames, the horrific acts some of you commit on the forums is nothing but a joke, even from some of the staff.

It seems as if there is zero respect around here, you forget these people fork over hours of time, money, and for nothing from you except expecting you to welcome newcomers and help them and to follow simple rules.

Its far from the staff's fault this site is dying, its the users, and most of you need to let that sink in and grow up. Warcraft 3 is NOT a dying game contrary to popular belief, according to Xfire its still one of the top 10 played games in the WORLD. The only reason this site is not gaining a multitude of members is because of the negativity that gets forced upon new users and anyone of authority.

I can understand most of you are children to begin with, but come on, simple manners people. I can understand if someone posts something moronic, report it, simple, don't flame it up and feed the fire.

Its been a long time withheld, but I can and will say this, a lot of the "new users" (aka last year or two) are really hurting this site, this site could easily surpass its former glory if not for the fact you guys are too busy with simple drama and bickering or posting inappropriate content to help anyone with anything.

I miss some of our older members, the helpful ones that brought us many happy days and hilarity. Damn I can't even remember half their names anymore, but a lot of them were the epitome of what a good member was, helpful despite the circumstances, never vulgar or lewd about anything, kept it clean cut and straight to the point and provided you with what you needed. Anyone from my time will remember we all respected the moderators and veteran members with high renown. They provided us with everything we needed to get started and become something around here, and gave us hope of accomplishing something (even if it was nothing many times), but at least they put a smile on our faces half the time even in criticism.

The users need to grow up, if you care about this site whatsoever, you'll cut all this bullshit and sheer vulgarity and stop driving off new members and stop degrading the site's image in the community and making it look like a joke. This isn't a playground, this is a website for artists to converge and share ideas and creations to recieve criticism and critique and provide their resources to the Warcraft world free of charge, its a site for people to get projects done and accomplish something, its about time we start reverting to the ways of old and start being a COMMUNITY again rather then an after-school hangout for children who just learned how to swear.

 

[Linaze]

Don't act like a total retard and you won't be treated like one, I know for a face that this statement is true. Of course there are exceptions to this, as with everything, but a vast majority of the people who act serious and ask for help serious etc. are in fact getting helped etc.

 

[Hakeem]

Not to devalue the proposal, but it isn't going to solve all the problems. The administration should be constantly evaluating what powers they can trust a user with. It's not some every now and then task to do when things get bad. The problem is that we don't have admins doing that. Heck, we may not have admins who could do that without multiple drama threads. All the problems people have been mentioning trace back to an ineffective administration. Not that our admins are incompetent, just none of them have done some important things that need to be done. They've been doing other stuff that is important.


That said, I agree with most of the proposals Dusk gave, pending what exactly being "fired" entails. The one in particular that I disagree with is demoting General Frank. I think we should wait until we have someone qualified and trustworthy to replace him. I know there are reasons to have General Frank demoted (no offense), but I think the best course of action in his case is to give this piece of advice:

Moderators must have patience. Each new user that breaks the rules is another person. It's like helping someone with a complex problem, and then someone else coming directly afterwards and asking the same exact question. "I just answered that!" Yeah, well the new user didn't see that. Don't fill their slate with the slate of someone else.


Arguing about how the admins decide to hand out power is pointless. (Aside from the fact that talking is never pointless.) You give your suggestion and the admins decide whether or not your suggestion has any value. This is psychology; every case is different. Deliberation is for the admins to do. Also, it is not constructive to the topic at hand.

You know, a lot of the posts in this thread are not constructive to the topic. The topic is about a few power adjustments. If you are posting in this thread I should hope you are posting your support, suggestions, or concerns with the proposal outlined in the first post. There are other threads you can post your general opinions in, but please keep this one to the specific topic. Furthermore, this thread is waiting on Ralle. He shouldn't need to wade through people shouting their opinions back and forth; this is a thread where debate is most certainly not the best way to go about things.


Leave your comments on the proposed staff modifications, and they will be considered by Ralle when he has the time. The more you post otherwise, the more likely your feedback is to be lost.

 

[Eleandor]

In my opinion too many people still dislike you/don't know you (well, as if that seems to matter, but it should).

I don't dislike him because I don't know him. I've heard his name plenty of times, and he's one of those persons I consider to be part of the "known" people like Ralle, PurplePoot or Wolverabid.

But I honestly don't know what he has done to this site or who he is...

Its far from the staff's fault this site is dying, its the users, and most of you need to let that sink in and grow up. Warcraft 3 is NOT a dying game contrary to popular belief, according to Xfire its still one of the top 10 played games in the WORLD. The only reason this site is not gaining a multitude of members is because of the negativity that gets forced upon new users and anyone of authority.

No, perhaps warcraft 3 isn't dying. But modding is. Or at least, modding has been taking a few hits in the face lately. Those that still use world edit now and then either suck (Sorry, no offence intended), or are too lazy to finish any maps. In the end, most things have already been done to death. Newbies who want to make a TD aren't going to make any revolutionary map. No, they're making a map with leaky buggy triggers and generic gameplay that feels like just another TD. More experienced users don't make maps because they're waiting for SC2 and don't want to bother to make a map in warcraft 3 anymore. On top of that, DoTA still rules battle.net and nobody wants to make a map that won't be played.

Other players who still use world edit aren't really modding anymore. They're making awesome looking terrains, but those won't be played in warcraft 3.
I'm not saying that's a bad thing. It's good to have terrain artists. But it doesn't directly contribute to warcraft 3...

Ofcourse some people still submit tons of maps (check the pending maps... another problem... ) and resources, but the core modding activity is only a shadow of its former self. The majority of the modders on this site that are currently working on a map are making a major rip-off of something that already exists.

Another problem is that the resources that are being submitted (especially spells and maps) are moderated at a speed slower than the submission speed. A system I submitted has been waiting over half a year before it finally was reviewed and approved.

I honestly don't know what should be done here. The community is simply too large to be managed easily.

 

[LiOneSS]

I've been thinking about it for awhile, particularly after Griffen and I got into a rather intense debate over it. He raised a lot of good points that I didn't like at first, but after a lot of thought I found that he was right. If I am to have powers, then I should earn them like any other user -- and that is not by going above everyone right to Ralle. Surely you will agree with me on that.

I will better serve the community as a user, and if in the future the staff finds that they can unanimously decide they want me back, then I will do my best to adhere to their wishes.

Oh come on, don't emo quit D: come back and get an icon ffs

 

[Rising_Dusk]

There needs to be a clear power structure among the adminstration, with a defined hierarchy and line of command, so that each staff member knows who they are responsible to and in what order, all the way up to Ralle.

Another important point. I'll probably address this in a table format as well like I did that punishment table.

Oh come on, don't emo quit D:

I'm not quitting, I am relinquishing unfairly gained and used powers.

Not to devalue the proposal, but it isn't going to solve all the problems. The administration should be constantly evaluating what powers they can trust a user with. It's not some every now and then task to do when things get bad. The problem is that we don't have admins doing that. Heck, we may not have admins who could do that without multiple drama threads. All the problems people have been mentioning trace back to an ineffective administration. Not that our admins are incompetent, just none of them have done some important things that need to be done. They've been doing other stuff that is important.

I fully agree, but nothing we do can make the administration be more active and do more necessary things for their roles. I think if Poot would take the shot at helping, he could do a lot, but past that it's stuck in stagnation. Ralle would need to be the one to motivate them somehow.

 

[Devine]

I think Archian should be fired.

2nd, nothing personal, Archian but i never see you online D: ... could be just me ...

I think BlinkBoy should be fired.

no. Blinkboy is a fine and helpfull moderator. Check the modelling and animation board if you don't believe me.

 

[PitzerMike]

• I think LiOneSS should be given cookies.

 

[Pyritie]

no. Blinkboy is a fine and helpfull moderator. Check the modelling and animation board if you don't believe me.

He's very helpful, yes, but he isn't really all that active.

 

[Devine]

He's very helpful, yes, but he isn't really all that active.

I see him online once every 2 days i think .... wich is enough for me ...
since there only are 2 threads created in that board every day >.> ...
and

• Pitzermike should be given some negrep for his spammy post :3

 

[brad.dude03]

Pitzermike is an amazing individual and as such should be given +12 rep for his amazing comment.

 

[Kwah]

Pitzermike is an amazing individual and as such should be given +12 rep for his amazing comment.

<3 Pitzer.

But seriously. We should go with these changes.