Somewhere Across Nowhere

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S o m e w h e r e A c r o s s N o w h e r e
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D E T A I L S

Description


The player has to pass Illidan through a series of trials in this multi-genre map (maze, puzzle, traps, fights, running and whatnot).
(I like to call it an action-puzzle game. Players have to think fast, employ their clicking reflexes, interact with units, items, doodads and terrain, be attentive to any kinds of details like colours, text, glitters and more.)

My inspiration for this creation, apart from the many Warcraft III maps & campaigns the Hive community has to offer, are also: Tomb Raider (heavily), God of War, Prince of Persia, Legacy of Kain series as well as Pyjamarama and the Legend of Kyrandia series. Of course, the so many Nintendo games must not be forgotten.




It is recommended to play on the second or first difficulty to get the hang of the game.

Easy - Waypoint/respawn system like on Normal but Illidan has bonus hit points, traps deal less damage and their timers increased.

Normal - No defeat condition. Illidan will be revived in certain points and some previously accomplished parts will not have to be redone. Hints are more detailed. Saving and loading also works. Hints appear after a short time when the player wanders in the same place.

Hard - Dying ends the game in defeat. Saving and loading is required to progress. Writing -hint in the chat gives information about the current puzzle in some places. This also works on Easy.


Credits

Blizzard Entertainment for making Warcraft III and its editor
The Hive Workshop for keeping the map in its database


BB code: BB Codes | HIVE
Aesthetics' loading screen tutorial:Simple Loading Screen
Vexorian's Optimizer: Default Wc3mapoptimizer 5.0
Ladik's MPQ Editor: Ladik's MPQ Editor 32bit
Shadow Daemon's BLP Lab: BLP Lab v0.5.0







Screenshots



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Other Notes


[box] Use "whosyourdaddy" at your own risk because it can ruin the level's progression (some triggers just kill Illidan instantly, some enemy units must not die etc.); "iseedeadpeople" might create some problems. Save the game from time to time if you desire to cheat.

Just to avoid scandalous questions: the music was composed by deepstrasz; the item icons and the troll skin were edited by the map's creator using Warcraft III original material. The loading screen image was taken from the Warcraft III manual.[/box]
[box][/box]


Soundtrack



Walkthrough

Starting Room (with Arthas, coins & troll):
Here, Illidan has to look for gold coins, spot them and keep his distance from Arthas. There is quite plenty of room to move but that doesn't mean coins can be taken in one trip towards their destination. The room has to be trod from east to west multiple times in order to keep the distance from Arthas and be able to get the coins without him cutting Illidan's escape. There are many walls in that room which Arthas will have to circumvent in order to reach his target and they also block Illidan's vision.
Once the coins are gathered, the Potion of Levitation must be bought from the troll and used in the western part of the room where the level begins (glinting place). Always keep an eye for glittering things as they are the highlighted pathway. Make Illidan use the potion there, near the runes/sparkles.

Levitation Room (frost & spike traps):
Illidan has only 20 seconds to get to a safe point before the timer expires (that might catch him falling into a trap or back to Arthas where he will have to gather coins again or be killed by the nemesis). Be careful, the traps deal quite the damage, some even slow down the character's movement. Watch the timing of the traps.

Room of Doors (Arthas speeding up & levers plus rocks):
The player will be advised to make multiple save files and save often (on normal). Illidan should follow the troll's path (to the east/right) and hurry as to not be attacked by the chasing Arthas. In this room, doors must be opened and closed using the levers that have to be quickly spotted and hit. When reaching the four levers and the frost traps, think of a pattern to not waste time hitting the levers (the order doesn't matter; for instance: first the northern [left/west], then southern [left/west], southern right and northern right). Also, be sure to take the Ice Boulder that's in the middle of the frost traps fire zone and use it on Arthas to stun him. Then, quickly make way to the switch and step on it. While Arthas will be busy taking the doors down, Illidan will have to find a way to open the other doors around him.
There are rock chunks that are hiding coloured stones (items). These need to be placed on their respective coloured switch. Once all rocks are on their respective switches, the doors will open. Head north towards the lowering gate, where the pink fire braziers are (they highlight the path).

Left/west Tunnels (Illidan shrinked, rotating glaives, death circles, Yeti, fire traps & penguin):
Head a bit north, watch out for the movement of the glaives, then head west. There are more glaive corridors to pass through. Once the circles are reached make sure Illidan only gets on them while they are yellow. Don't mind the Yeti, get farther west, watch out for the two glaives that have their speed reduced once in some seconds (you might want to pass then). Reach the portal and take the penguin into the inventory. Then watch out for the other two horizontally rotating glaives. Go left/west, step on the switch to activate the fire traps near the Yeti and return there.
Put the frozen penguin on one of the black runes where the fire activates and let it thaw. Watch out, don't let the fire burn the penguin afterwards because Illidan'll have to get a frozen one from the portal again. The Yeti will come to hit the penguin after its ice melts. Don't let it do that. Instead trick the Yeti to come to the penguin to catch fire (careful with the fire pattern). Don't get inside the fire zones with the thawed penguin inside the inventory as the Yeti will attack Illidan. The creature will have to catch fire a number of times before it'll die. Once dead, take the key it leaves behind and go (with the penguin too) east and then north to the door (watch out for the glaive & circles movement pattern).

Mid Tunnels (fire, scarabs, traps from behind & switches):
If Illidan steps into the fire to his left, he dies. To the right/east of that fire, there's a scarab. Follow it quickly and then get to safety between two walls as another scarab will come from behind. The scarabs will clash and explode. Next head east to the switch and then quickly, without stopping, to the next switch on the right. If there is any reason to get back east, be sure to remember the trap direction pattern is activated by the currently lowered switch.

Eastern Tunnels (glaives, death circles, many other traps, runes, "lasers", giant, statue etc.):
Here, there are death circles and glaives on the same path. Be sure to see the wall carvings to get there to safety. Wait for the glaive's being out of the way and the yellow circle's appearance to synchronize and head to the middle of the cross shaped hub. There the glaives will just go around Illidan when passing but not kill him.
Next, head west, watch the glaive and circle patterns and then go south to the frost traps. Don't hurry as visibility is low until walking up the ramp. Put the penguin into the fire zone of a trap to freeze it and then take it. Go north and then to the right in the room where black wisps are. Carefully go through the zone delimited by them (don't touch them as they kill Illidan) and press the switch while having the frozen penguin on. Quickly get back to the red shield (Big Bad Voodoo) effect to avoid certain death that comes in some good seconds.
Don't hurry out the red shield as there are traps on the corridor that force the player to go in one direction. Watch their pattern and go north after them.
After following through the square edged spiral, get past the circles and wait a moment to watch the pattern of the next appearing and disappearing glittering traps. There's also a lever there. That's to reverse the black traps Illidan followed previously and the nearby circles mechanism. There's a space in the left/eastern wall. Illidan needs to get there and from there south to the switch to press it (again with the frozen penguin in his inventory).
Once the switch is pressed, return to the room where the wisps were. Take the Ignited Boots (that are in the fire; wait for it to extinguish) with the frozen penguin on. Then head south to the frozen traps and cool the boots by placing them in one of the zones of the frost traps. Be careful not to let the Cooled Boots freeze afterwards as they will need to be cooled again north, where the fire from which Illidan first took them is.
Head to the eastern part of this big region by passing through the central hub. Once there, go north where the four switches and the giant are. Be sure to quickly enter and let the giant follow Illidan to step on the switches in a sign of the cross manner (first one is the one in the north, second is the one in the south and the other two on the left and right are interchangeable). Quickly get out after all the switches are lowered and head south to the runes (now the barrier protecting the poles and runes is down).
Watch their glitters (the last move is the one in the center) and step on them in the corresponding order (as shown by the glints). Step on one, get off it and circle around to step on another and so on. The rune animations are only there to help show the pattern, they are not to be synchronized with Illidan's stepping on them. After the pattern has been correctly followed, Illidan will be in the middle surrounded by lasers. Be careful how one of the Laser Poles is taken in the inventory to not be burned by one of the beams. Then, the poles must be put in a pattern on the circular tiles, the first of which is the one the glaives are circling. The second is the one just south of the entrance to the giant's chambers. Make sure the lasers are connected to the generator.
After this, the magic barrier on the gate south of the corridor hub will disappear. Get back west to the frozen traps (the glaives and circles are not active anymore). Get south past the traps. Place the frozen penguin on the switch and wait for the statue to charge. Wait for it to go and smash the gate. Take the penguin and go through the door.

Water Basins (golems & Arthas chasing again):
Head south to the big circle to become normal again. Then, walk up the ramp and quickly take the big golem and put it on its corresponding spot that mirrors its current spot. Hastily, get the two smaller ones in the inventory and place them on their corresponding spots (memorize which of the two was first taken so you'll know where it should be placed). Next, cross the platform and again take the big golem and place it on its corresponding place. Next, the medium sized one and lastly the small one (be careful that here the spots are not exactly mirrored but slightly crosswise).

Frost Mountains (Arthas, Maiev, Orb of Froustmourne, Ancient & Altar):
Run south towards the ice blockade. Wait for Arthas to come closer and watch as he is "killed" by Maiev who then blinks away. Take the orb that Maiev leaves on the snow and destroy the blockade. Next, Illidan will have to destroy a corrupted Ancient. Be sure not to get hit by its attacks and not to let treants clutter (they also restore a little of Illidan's life upon dying). Basically, it's dodge and hit. After the Ancient is destroyed, Illidan has to leave the orb in an Altar of Ancients to the west for the gates to open. Watch the cinematic scene or skip it. Get through the Way Gate.

Portals Zone (stalker, circles, even more circles):
Now, here you'll have to keep a good eye on the green circles. Don't step on any blue circles or the pattern will reset. Try to be near the center of the pattern zone to make it easier to get to them in time. Also, mind the ghastly beast as it can make Illidan step on the wrong circle (use Hold Position when needed). There are two patterns. After completing them get back to the target spot of the Way Gate where the glittering runes are and get to the next zone.
Here, the circles have to be turned all into green so Illidan can be able to get back towards the teleportation site. Turning one of the circles to a different colour than green, the gate will raise and block the way out. There is not much time to think about it since the monster is on Illidan's tail. Either using a real paper to discover the pattern after seeing how many colour changes are from green to green or by following this: first go to the third circle (south), then through the first (north), then again through the third, then through the first, again step on the third and then on the second (middle); walk on the third, the first and lastly on the third and second. Done. Escape to the runes.
In this next zone, go south and look for the strange crystal. Then, watch the red circles patterns and step only on the black ones.

Boulders Corridors (pillars & runic tiles):
With the crystal Illidan needs to get close to the pillars on the right and left of each corridor that will activate. Watch out for the boulders. They will change their path from horizontal to vertical after each of the two pairs of pillars are activated.

Sunken Basin (water rising, runic tiles again):
Here, absolute care not to step on the wrong runic tiles or otherwise there will be no more time to complete the pattern. The War Stomp effect means wrong, the Thunder Clap effect means right. The rune pairs in the previous room (where the boulders were) help to decipher the puzzle. The rune on the southern ramp means that's how the first rune in the water looks while the one on the northern ramp shows the last rune in the water of the pattern.

Antidote Room (damage per second to Illidan, seals, weed & tuskarr):
Meet the troll that's going to ask for something. Give him the crystal so that Illidan will get a potion. Use this potion so that the troll will disappear and quickly go east to find something to heal as the potion gives a sickness.
Head east through the seals then north and then west. Get the weed then head east and south down the ramp and then west to the next weed. Get back on the ramp and head east then south for the third weed. Then, head back, cross the bridge and a bit south to cross the parallel bridge. Go east, a bit south, get the weed and cross the bridge back. Head west and then south to cross a smaller bridge. Then, go east, cross the bridge to the east and head south and get down that doodad ramp to get the next weed. Turn back and head east but don't go south the ramp but a bit more east. Head south, take the weed and turn back to the ramp to take that weed as well. Quickly, go west, cross the bridge, don't go west on the ramp. Instead go south, on the bridge and then west until reaching the ramp to the water zone. Get there and head east to the ramp, walk up, then quickly west to the last weed.
Now, get east to the tuskarr. He will turn Illidan into a seal and leave through a portal. Once through, quickly get south to the ruins before the tuskarr hunters kill Illidan.

Levitation Rooms (walk-fly circles, various traps, elementals, pheonixes, runes etc.):
Once the gate closes, Illidan will be restored. Watch out for the arrows. The red ones hit flying units while the green hit Illidan when walking. Go east to the runic tile and step on it. Then head to the western part of the room to step on the other one. Afterwards get into the circle just north of the runic tile to fly (watch out for the fire as it kills).
Now step on all runes that are up: one is in the left upper corner, one in the right upper corner and two are in the middle of the room). Afterwards, head south through the newly opened gate. Watch the pattern of the phoenixes as they deal damage to aerial units.
Head west to the room with the huge phoenix and step on all highland runes. Don't miss the lever south of the entrance into that room (hit it). Get back and step on the circle on the right/east to walk. Get into the eastern room where the banshees are. Watch their pattern and get south to hit the two levers and return to the elementals & pheonixes room. Then, head into the southern room. Careful with the green elemental patterns and head west and then north back into the room with the huge creatures. Step on the runes and get out of the room and through the opened gate to the west.

Doppelganger Regions (demon Illidan, Gul'dan, traps, Kael, Kil'jaeden, Dragon Shield etc.):
Head south and be careful not to get too close to the red Illidan. Head east through the long corridor and then quickly south without stopping as Gul'dan will follow and kill Illidan if he touches him. In this part of the level, just be careful not to touch the red Illidan or let Gul'dan touch the real Illidan. Just have to memorize or have a quick eye to get through the cleared passages.
After reaching the end of the labyrinth, red Illidan will mirror the real I'dan's movements. Dodge the wisps and touch the green runes when they appear. The pattern of the wisps changes multiple times (be careful) every time after four runes are consumed. Also, dodge Kael's Flame Strike. When the frost traps appear, the runes (now red) will only have a healing effect on Illidan but will not damage the ganger. To hurt the doppelganger, Illidan will have to stand in one of those frost traps while the ganger does the same. After 10 hits, pursue the ganger.
Run away from him while Tharifas and the Phoenix are battling. After Tharifas dies, the Dragon Shield is dropped. Take that and use the ability it gives to reflect the demon's attacks (use the ability when the demon's projectile is about to hit Illidan). Meanwhile dodge Kael's Flame Strike and do not stay on the low ground when it turns blood red as Illidan will die. After the demon is defeated the ending scene starts.


History



  • ~2010-2011: creation started and designed/desired to be a campaign level
  • ~2014-2016 (this last one, the most): continued working on it and uploaded on the 14th of July as a standalone map due to its different gameplay mechanics
  • 11/10/2016: updated with a new difficulty option that integrates a checkpoint system (also suggested by gusanomental)
  • 18/12/2016: added two models, fixed an issue with music, edited and supplemented some dialogues & updated to the latest patch
  • 27/12/2016: minor update based on tyci's advice
  • 30/12/2016: little update after Soul Reaver's remarks
  • 05/01/2017: more hints and a command for that on Normal; reduced the damage of black wisps
  • 15/01/2017: fixed an issue reported by PrinceYaser: here and added a dialogue line
  • 20/10/2017: post#53 mostly based on tyci and Soul Reaver's remarks
  • 14/03/2018: mandatory update post#54
  • 15/03/2018: minor update (post#56) based on old_edge5's comments
  • 21/03/2018: important update (post#59) after old_edge5's video report
  • 22/03/2018: minor update (post#63) on old_edge5's comments (1 & 2)
  • 23/03/2018: mini update (post#65+post#67) based on old_edge5's feedback (+post)
  • 24/03/2018: small update (post#69) partially on old_edge5's comments
  • 29/06/2018: minor change for an imported file
  • 26/02/2019: minor changes + released an unprotected version for learning purposes (post#78)
  • 29/03/2019: minor changes based on Abishkar's comments (post #85)
  • 29/03/2019: quality of life changes based on Imperator's feedback (post #86)
  • 17/05/2019: credits revised ingame
  • 21/06/2019: Illidan has Blink now in the first room
  • 22/06/2019: edited and added some dialogues to make them less vague
  • 05/08/2019: added a third difficulty, an easier one to play on (post #92)
  • 23/07/2020: recorded a video walkthrough and made some quality of life improvements (post #109)


Possible Issues



  1. -if the map doesn't start/load via the game, try installing the newest patch version
  2. -the game might crash while the level loads/starts if the video options are not set to the highest quality (thanks to Rufus for the info!)
  3. -if loading a saved game results in a crash, try loading it again; if it still doesn't work restart the .exe/game and load the save file
  4. -if you cannot see the map in the game, try shortening the filename by renaming it



Changelog



  • -Rasofe reported some bugs that have been fixed
  • -reduced the speed of some glaives and highlighted the levers in the third room when Illidan gets somewhat near them
  • -added another difficulty (easy) with checkpoints system (thanks gusanomental for the suggestion); also reduced damage of glaives and tweaked the music a bit
  • -changed a model and added another one, fixed an issue with music that suddenly randomly stopped and started over, edited and supplemented some dialogues & updated map file version to the latest patch
  • -modified some hints for Easy mode, implemented high from above camera for the tunnels, edited the tooltip of some items for the better, reduced the Yeti's HP and hound's damage and added some transmissions (thanks tyci)
  • -fixed camera clipping for the intro; added more hints, transmissions and edited item tooltips (mostly for easy mode); minor end game dialogue edits; decreased the damage range of boulders; red regeneration torches in the tunnels revamped (thanks Soul Reaver for the many remarks)
  • -added a -hint chat command for Normal mode and reduced the damage of the wisps in the tunnels
  • -fixed an issue with respawning on easy difficulty (thanks PrinceYaser for reporting) and added one transmission
  • -edited some hints, reduced some damage of things, fixed an issue with the coins, increased water filling puzzle time
  • -released unprotected version for studying purposes
  • -minor update most importantly related to Illidan not fleeing anymore while attacked
  • -some quality of life changes especially in the first room
  • -updated credits in the quest log
  • -added Blink for Illidan in the first room
  • -for further inquiries see the History section
Contents

Somewhere Across Nowhere (Map)

Reviews
Kino
Is this a well designed, well polished map? yes. Is it an enjoyable map? personally yes, kinda. Individually, I enjoyed the different challenges the map offers. I also liked how as you transitioned from one segment to the next, the brief cutscene...
Level 25
Joined
Oct 2, 2011
Messages
2,450
I couldn't launch it from warcraft III, so I tried opening it in world editor. It crached, so I guess it is protected, but it should be launchable via wc3.
If more people than me encounter this issue, you should find a fix for it. :)
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 56
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
16,197
I couldn't launch it from warcraft III, so I tried opening it in world editor. It crached, so I guess it is protected, but it should be launchable via wc3.
If more people than me encounter this issue, you should find a fix for it. :)
Will you be more explicit please? I downloaded it and I can launch it via Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne. I even put it in different folders just to make sure.

This is my game's version: 127.0.52240

Can you see the forces and their players in the game before pressing the start button?
 
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Level 21
Joined
Nov 4, 2013
Messages
2,023
I couldn't launch it from warcraft III, so I tried opening it in world editor. It crached, so I guess it is protected, but it should be launchable via wc3.
If more people than me encounter this issue, you should find a fix for it. :)

I managed to launch it from Warcraft III without problems.
The game is freaking hardcore! Just from the very beginning, it's pretty hard. I think I'll take ages and lots of save/loads before getting to the end of this, but I do assert that the game shouldn't be so difficult from the very beginning as this can discourage some players to go on and keep trying.
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 56
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
16,197
The game is freaking hardcore! Just from the very beginning, it's pretty hard. I think I'll take ages and lots of save/loads before getting to the end of this, but I do assert that the game shouldn't be so difficult from the very beginning as this can discourage some players to go on and keep trying.
Wow! Really? I thought it would be pretty fair. I mean, didn't even think it would be considered hardcore. Honestly, (my prism again), the starting part is one of the easiest. The enemy walks like a turtle and there's a lot of room to move :) Sometimes you have to be a little patient to understand what there needs to be done and go further. That means, you might have to give more than one try per puzzle/trap/chase/etc.
Have you decided not to go further?

I can give tips/hints (or should there be a walkthrough?) if it is really that hard how you say it is.
 
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Level 21
Joined
Nov 4, 2013
Messages
2,023
Wow! Really? I thought it would be pretty fair. I mean, didn't even think it would be considered hardcore. Honestly, (my prism again), the starting part is one of the easiest. The enemy walks like a turtle and there's a lot of room to move :) Sometimes you have to be a little patient to understand what there needs to be done and go further. That means, you might have to give more than one try per puzzle/trap/chase/etc.
Have you decided not to go further?

I can give tips/hints (or should there be a walkthrough?) if it is really that hard how you say it is.

Hehe don't imagine I'll give up so soon!
While I agree with the fact that the enemy is slow, the main problem is that I get stuck when I try to fetch some gold coins in restricted areas so Arthas kills me easily. There isn't a lot of room to move as you say. As the creator of the map, everything sounds easy to you (I recall creating similar maps during my youth; they were a piece of cake for me but not for others). It also took me some time (and iseedeadpeople XD) to figure out where I had to use Potion of Levitation. I think you should give a tip to the player to guide him to that point. After all, it's just the first puzzle! Go easy on players!

Oh, a walkthrough is absolutely a brilliant idea! You should really try to make one.
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 56
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
16,197
Hehe don't imagine I'll give up so soon!
The trick is to spot the gold coins and keep the distance from Arthas. Leave him in the room where the troll is. You have to circle the two zones some good times before able to get the gold coins. You can't really get them all at once as Arthas will block your escape. There are two runes near the edge of the place where the potion must be used. I'll probably need to highlight them more.
About that thing being easy for me because I've made the map I say: in this case it's only partially true since I don't really remember every coin's place. I usually do testing some big deal of a time after finishing a part of a map as to forget some stuff to make it look "near" a first glance/time. I'll be making the walkthrough. It would save many answers too, time.
I'll also update the map, but for that, I'll need more feedback.
 
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deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 56
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
16,197
Have you considered adding some kind of checkpoints?
I have considered it, but I've gotten lazy on the thought because it would really take time to make it. However, it is not that needed since you can make multiple save states when you wish to :) You can even use F6 for quick saving.
I've written the solution to most if not all rooms in the opening post.
I mostly need to know if it's considered a difficult map as Shadow Fury wrote. I can reduce damage of things and so on, if needed.
This would be driving me crazy if it wasn't for the music, perfectly fitting a bad/surreal dream, huh? Good job there.
Wow, do you really think it fits to that? It's what I really wanted to. I wasn't sure I quite got that.
 
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Level 1
Joined
Dec 11, 2015
Messages
4
There's a bug at the end of lvl 2 where Arthas will suddenly get a ranged attack and start hitting you from his lvl 1 area.
There's another bug that happens very frequently when lvl 3 starts and Arthas doesn't kill the troll and instead tries to run to you directly, getting stuck in his lvl 1 area.
The hitboxes on the levers in lvl 3 are super-tiny. This is especially infuriating because Illidan will often stop mid-animation when told to hit them for no reason.
Lvl 4 isn't doable to someone with no Jail Break experience since 2006. Halve the number of glaives around the teleporter and I'll consider further testing.

There's next to no story and because of the nature of the challenges (doing by trial and error) the atmosphere loses its intensity pretty fast. If you don't want a story-driven game you can probably easily configure this map to be multiplayer, like a traditional Jail Break map.
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 56
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
16,197
There's a bug at the end of lvl 2 where Arthas will suddenly get a ranged attack and start hitting you from his lvl 1 area.
Really!? Got to take that out. But wait, how can that happen when there are walls between those two sections? Now I get it. He attacks you while in the air right?
There's another bug that happens very frequently when lvl 3 starts and Arthas doesn't kill the troll and instead tries to run to you directly, getting stuck in his lvl 1 area.
Got to check that too. I thought it was pretty much fixed.
Lvl 4 isn't doable to someone with no Jail Break experience since 2006. Halve the number of glaives around the teleporter and I'll consider further testing.
Get whosyourdaddy on the infuriating stuff and try to finish as much as you can so I would update more than just wee bits, please.
There's next to no story
I'm not a fan of long cinematic scenes during gameplay and this is a prologue (also you have to understand what the level is pointing at). The next levels would be more Warcraft friendly and have the story deepened. Useless talking is boring. I like the conclusions to be drawn either by interpretation or by understanding how things happen.
The hitboxes on the levers in lvl 3 are super-tiny. This is especially infuriating because Illidan will often stop mid-animation when told to hit them for no reason.
Try clicking more than once, like a double click or something. If I make the levers visible, it would be too easy but I'll take it into consideration. I'll probably make them visible once Illidan gets somewhat near them.
you can probably easily configure this map to be multiplayer, like a traditional Jail Break map.
No way. How would Arthas follow Illidans. That would mean Arthases following Illidans which would make it a super conglomeration of a corridor. Plus, there are only levers for one person to solve the "puzzle".
Halve the number of glaives around the teleporter and I'll consider further testing.
Just stand in the corner so no glaive will touch you. That's not a big deal.

Will you please give me some details on the bugs? Did it happen after loading the game or something? Did you load a couple of times before that thing happened?

Thanks for the feedback!

EDIT: just tested the thing with Arthas not killing the troll. It didn't happen to me. Tried loading too just in case it was a loading bug but nope. Did it happen when/after he attacked you from a range?
EDIT2: you're right. I need to pause Illidan or better turn of Arthas' follow trigger. Both actually.
 
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Level 1
Joined
Dec 11, 2015
Messages
4
just tested the thing with Arthas not killing the troll. It didn't happen to me. Tried loading too just in case it was a loading bug but nope. Did it happen when/after he attacked you from a range?
It happens once every six reloads, approximately.

How would Arthas follow Illidans. That would mean Arthases following Illidans which would make it a super conglomeration of a corridor. Plus, there are only levers for one person to solve the "puzzle".
See, that's the thing, if it was more puzzles and fewer Jail Break segments I'd like it a lot more. It started out really promising with the coin chase and levitating puzzle but I got annoyed when the first spike segment killed me immediately on completion (and I didn't realise I had to save before drinking the potion to make sure I got the full 20 seconds, rather than after, which made me redo the whole thing). Then the glaives. It's just not as good for immersion when I have to remember "Oh yeah, this is a Jail Break segment" instead of considering the symbolism of the Yeti.

Useless talking is boring.
I like useless talking, it gives the characters lifelike qualities. Remember when in TFT Arthas would just comment "Gold? This'll be useful later!" in the Azjol Nerub part? That deepened his character since it established that Arthas is a solid economist as well as a hero who can give undead units morale perks.
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
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See, that's the thing
Reducing the damage of the spikes won't do too much good since then you could just click at the end of the traps zone and wait for Illidan to just get there. Trust me, I've tested this kind of thing. The zone is too small to not have the traps be at least somewhat near lethal.
Then the glaives. It's just not as good for immersion when I have to remember "Oh yeah, this is a Jail Break segment" instead of considering the symbolism of the Yeti.
I know. I just combined all sorts of ideas. Really wanted to make it feel like a stressful dream. Anyways, reduced the speed of some glaives and will upload the map after some other stuff'll get tweaked.
I like useless talking,
Well, Ras, you're welcome to help deepen the characters of this map (and hopefully later campaign) if you want to. I'm the straight to the point type so I've got no bla bla bla talent.
 
Level 1
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Okay, once I beat the map and get some time free I'll write a manuscript. It's not gonna be Metzen good but I'll give it my best shot.
 
Level 23
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Is this a well designed, well polished map? yes.
Is it an enjoyable map? personally yes, kinda.

Individually, I enjoyed the different challenges the map offers.
I also liked how as you transitioned from one segment to the next, the brief cutscene would add context of how the enemy caught up to you etc.

That said, I think the main issue that people will likely find with this map is that on some level it is a mind-reading challenge. The trick to beating them seems to involve knowing the 1 thing that solves it, or the perfect sequence of actions. In other words, you need to understand exactly what the author was thinking when the puzzle was created to beat it. This would be fine if failing a challenge sent you back to the start of each puzzle, instead of restarting the game from scratch.

TLDR Version
– Individually enjoyable challenges
- Restarting from the beggining upon failure can be frustrating.

~ Map Approved
 

deepstrasz

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instead of restarting the game from scratch.
Not from scratch. Saving the game is the solution to that. Multiple saves would be advised. What I'm writing is, that, saving works like in the normal Warcraft campaign/game. There is usually a relief between "rooms" so that the player can save then safely (without any risks of dying upon load if not going further first). The player can save anytime, anywhere.
I was thinking of using triggers to save the game at those relief moments in case the player doesn't realize or forgets to, that, instead of creating waypoints for every room, a thing that would be quite painful to do.

Thanks for playing! There's a walkthrough under the Soundtrack title in the first post in case you haven't used it yet. Suggestions pertaining things on this map are appreciated too.
 
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Level 8
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Aug 7, 2011
Messages
433
I decided to download it because the screenshots looks awesome, and I don't regret it.
It's a very entertaining map, I totally recommend it.
Great job buddy!
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
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Mate, is this single player ? I love escapes, any chance that we'll see a multiplayer version soon ?
Hello.
This won't work as a multiplayer game. The level was designed to be part of a campaign. Thing is, more Illidans would clutter the narrow corridors plus more enemies of a same type to strike at those Illidans would also block the way (even if I make them all fly, the visuals of so many units of the same type would be more than awkward). There also are puzzles that just can't work in multiplayer as they've been made specifically for one person. More people would mean the puzzle would either be solved too fast and hence no danger or some players might just have nothing to do while only one player would carry a required item.

This isn't the usual type of escape genre map. For instance, there is no slide therein but the site map type tags won't let me take that one out. This game is more action-puzzle oriented.
 
Level 10
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455
Alright. This is the Grand Review Exchange.

Gameplay
I love escape survival type of map. Exploring mysteries and unlocking secrets. I love the continuation from the story of Illidan defeated by Arthas. Gameplay is quite hard for me as soon as it is started. Being chase in a tight area that sometimes not walkable makes me feel bad about myself. Although you can respawn infinitely (in easy mode), you would feel like the first puzzle is much more harder than playing pacman even being chased by an enemy. The second puzzle is okey. But, I was hoping to get the flow of puzzle where one part is connected to the other. Introducing item as key and its unlocking mechanism are too sudden. Additionally, I was also hoping that puzzle should give more planning time rather than luck. The chance of making error is too small where it should be at the advance level. Sometimes when Illidan shrunk, you cannot see him as being blocked by terrains. This eventually makes the game harder.

In summary, this game is wonderful! and we should support it! For now, it is very hard and lacking proper gameplay flow and introduction. You need to be expert of puzzle game to play it! But I am sure that it will be improved in the future. Who doesn't want Illidan in puzzle game as Arthas had. 3/5

Aesthatic
The looks of generic Warcraft 3. Nothing makes spooky about the dungeon yet environment is decent. I want more obvious settings that would give us the idea of how to solve a current puzzle. Everything else are very good, well organized and creative presentations.

In summary, the environment needs improvement. 3/5

Bugs
Not yet so far. I saved the game at a hard part as I cannot solve it yet. I will continue and probably report if I found one.

In summary, no bugs. 5/5

Conclusion
I love the game. Need more support from everyone cause it can turns out a really good puzzle map. Many things that make it fun and impressive. 11/15!

Don't worry, I will edit my review as I keep playing the map.
 
Level 8
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Messages
106
Hey I played your map until the Sunken Basin and I couldn't get further because of a bug or game mechanic Im not sure.
I failed to do the tiles in time so the water level rose and I got changed into a seal. Tried doing it as a seal but she is too slow to do it.
Overrall I have really mixed feelings about your map. Sometimes it really makes me proud of myself and my quick thinking and sometimes I want to shout at the screen trying to figure out what do you expect me to do here. I will start from the beginning and point out some things I would have done differently :
  • It started out great. The camera work and the atmosphere in the beginning are splendid. In my opinion though you don't need to write when Illidan talks to himself and when to Arthas as it is easy to figure out.
  • The first act is fun and here I would make the potion cost 80 gold instead of a 100 to not force the player to collect all of the hidden money as it can lead to some frustrating moments. Also there is a trigger that allows you to turn on subtitles even if someone has them turned off, so they can view what Arthas is saying outside of cinematics.
  • The levitating part. Here I would make him not levitate so high, as at first I thought I could walk through all of the spikes. Also when I completed this part it teleported me to the wrong area (the one with the penguin and the yeti) so I had to restart.
  • Then the chasing again, which is also fun. But after that, it gets a bit tricky. Illidan gets shrinked and you can barely see where the glaives are. This is a matter of life and death so its important and I recommend adding a camera view from the top for this part. It would have helped a great deal. Also the glaives hit you every milisecond you are within their vicinity and I would change that to like every 1-2 seconds. The penguin this far was all right, although I would put a hint in the tooltip, for example "A fresh penguin is excelllent bait for Yetis" or sth. The Yeti has way too much health.
  • Okay now this part of the map was completely insane for me and I had to follow your walkthrough very closely in order to complete it, but it was still a challenge. It was too difficult for me to figure out what you wanted to do with those levers/boots/penguin. The shining runes after the giant was also too long to follow.
  • After that the golems were logical and nice, not sure if intentional or not but when you die there, the gates do not respawn so you have to really hurry up to do it, because if arthas enter he slows you down and you won't make it in time.
  • The circles of power with the demon hound were pleasant following colors, but in the second part you could give some more time i think.
  • And then the Sunken Basin in which I got stuck in.

To sum up I would recommend this map only for hardcore puzzle solvers, for them it's a 4/5 , but for casual players its a 2/5 so I will give a rating of 3/5
 

deepstrasz

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I failed to do the tiles in time so the water level rose and I got changed into a seal. Tried doing it as a seal but she is too slow to do it.
Changed into a seal in the place where the water rises? That should not happen! Are you sure? Please save your game from time to time so that you should not start over.
Did you use iseedeadpeople?
there is a trigger that allows you to turn on subtitles even if someone has them turned off, so they can view what Arthas is saying outside of cinematics
Thanks. Didn't remember that!
In my opinion though you don't need to write when Illidan talks to himself
Well, he doesn't actually talk to himself, more like thinking/being aware. I'm pretty sure, most people won't realize that he is not looking like in tFT without those comments.
The levitating part. Here I would make him not levitate so high, as at first I thought I could walk through all of the spikes. Also when I completed this part it teleported me to the wrong area (the one with the penguin and the yeti) so I had to restart.
Really!? That should not happen! I have to replay my level yet again... I hope it's not because of the latest patch! By the way, did you download it? I've saved the map on it.
I'll try to set the flying height to lower. Thanks.
This is a matter of life and death so its important and I recommend adding a camera view from the top for this part. It would have helped a great deal.
I did that for later parts. I'll do it for this one too and see how that goes.
Also the glaives hit you every milisecond you are within their vicinity and I would change that to like every 1-2 seconds.
Well, that would increase the chance the glaive won't hit you while you get through it. Besides, in an earlier version, the glaives just killed you in one hit :D
although I would put a hint in the tooltip, for example "A fresh penguin is excelllent bait for Yetis" or sth. The Yeti has way too much health.
I see. Good points.
Okay now this part of the map was completely insane for me and I had to follow your walkthrough very closely in order to complete it, but it was still a challenge. It was too difficult for me to figure out what you wanted to do with those levers/boots/penguin. The shining runes after the giant was also too long to follow.
Yeah, the Shrink Tunnels is the hardest part of the map :p It's hard to make it easier... that's why I added the walkthrough. If you have any suggestions on that, I'm open for them!
not sure if intentional or not but when you die there, the gates do not respawn so you have to really hurry up to do it, because if arthas enter he slows you down and you won't make it in time.
Yeah, making the gates appear again would be kind of a problem for triggers but Arthas gets a 10 second or more(?) stun so, it's like the gate would be destroyed again; it takes 10 or so hits for the gate to be destroyed.
The circles of power with the demon hound were pleasant following colors, but in the second part you could give some more time i think.
I could decrease the hound's damage there but that would make the puzzle kind of easy. Well, I always figured out people would use a pen/pencil and a paper to figure that puzzle out and then just complete it in max 1 min :D

Thanks a lot for your remarks. If you dare to continue the rest of it, please write your opinions here. I'm also waiting for some more suggestions/advice in case you have/want some to write.
 
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Level 8
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Dec 30, 2013
Messages
106
Changed into a seal in the place where the water rises? That should not happen! Are you sure? Please save your game from time to time so that you should not start over.
Did you use iseedeadpeople?
Yes I used it haha, is that the reason?

Really!? That should not happen! I have to replay my level yet again... I hope it's not because of the latest patch! By the way, did you download it? I've saved the map on it.
No I dont have the latest patch, maybe thats why.

Well, that would increase the chance the glaive won't hit you while you get through it. Besides, in an earlier version, the glaives just killed you in one hit :D
Hahaha, then I guess its better to leave it as it is :D

Yeah, making the gates appear again would be kind of a problem for triggers but Arthas gets a 10 second or more(?) stun so, it's like the gate would be destroyed again; it takes 10 or so hits for the gate to be destroyed.
Oh okay, didn't think about that
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
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Messages
16,197
Minor Update on some of @tyci's suggestions: post#32
-forced subtitles on
-straight from above camera option for the tunnels
-halved the Yeti's HP
-added a hint in the Penguin's description and its frozen form
-reduced the damage of the hound but only a little
-added a hint about the penguin and the switches (for Easy Mode)
-also added some transmissions


  • Animation - Change IllidanLevitating flying height to 0.00 at 0.00
Doesn't work. Illidan is still as high as before. :(
 
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Level 8
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Dec 30, 2013
Messages
106
Oh nice! This will definitely improve your map, keep the updates coming ;DD
About Illidan, you could replace him with a flying unit and flying unit's height can be changed in the object editor. I might be wrong though.
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 56
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
16,197
About Illidan, you could replace him with a flying unit and flying unit's height can be changed in the object editor. I might be wrong though.
He is a flying unit and the height is set to 0 in the object editor but for some reason when he is replaced, the height is set to that of a default flying unit, I think. That's why I tried using that trigger :|
 
Level 13
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Jul 15, 2005
Messages
332
After posting in the map review exchange I spotted your map, Somewhere Across Nowhere, and it sounded interesting and thought I'd give it a go. Then I spotted that you made it, and I'm pretty sure you've reviewed/rated To the Bitter End already. But I'll still give you a review, and you don't owe me one in return. :p

However, I have... mixed feelings about the map. Apologies, as I'm often a bit blunt when reviewing something...

First the positives:

Original music

The fact that you composed and included original music is really great and very impressive. I wish I had the skills to do the same!

Technical Skill
There are a huge amount of triggered events in the map, many of them very complex. I didn't run into any bugs or problems with them, so this was extremely well done.

Originality
There are many original ideas in the map, and the variety of challenges is impressive too.

Use of Space
The map makes excellent use of space, with pretty much every area serving a purpose.

Symbolism
The idea of the map being a symbolic dreamworld of Illidan's is interesting too, especially in the way the various characters are encountered and how they interact with Illidan.

However, there are a number of issues with the map too:

Missing Content
I feel like there is content missing. The troll priest that sells the 'poisoned' potion and the Tuskarr raider both seem to have lines they are supposed to say when encountered, but neither one of them actually says anything. You should add some text if you don't have audio for them.
EDIT: Apparently they have dialogue if the subtitles are enabled. However, this shouldn't be necessary. Please ensure their dialogue displays even if players don't have subtitles on.

Unclear Goals
There are a LOT of puzzles in the game where the goal is extremely unclear. I wouldn't have finished this map without your walkthrough. There need to be more in-game clues or feedback (audio, visual, text or other) to help guide the player along to what they they should be doing, which items relate to which areas etc. As it stands, there are some things that are so vague that I would never have guessed them (for example,
the penguin and how it affects the yeti - a spoken piece of dialogue or a tooltip like "Live penguins are a favorite food for Yetis. But this one is frozen solid... maybe there's a way to thaw it?" would point a player in the right direction, but as it stands, it's not clear why the Yeti will charge toward a 'thawed' penguin and thus no reason for players to try and use/thaw it
). There are many other examples too though where things have to be done in a specific order, or specific actions need to be taken, without there being any clues as to what they need to be.

Game Engine Limitations
This is one of the biggest problems, and unfortunately one you probably can't do anything about. The Warcraft III engine just isn't suited to the precise controls this map often calls for. Illidan feels sluggish and the pathfinding doesn't necessarily go where I want (or even tell) Illidan to go. On many occasions (especially the last battle) the AI has caused Illidan to run to a stupid location that kills him even if I didn't order him to. Similarly, collision detection is very iffy - sometimes Illidan seems to get past something with hardly being hurt, sometimes even standing NEAR something will kill him, even if visually it never touches him. This makes for some very frustrating gameplay.

Trial and Error Gameplay
This might be a bit ridiculous coming from me - since To the Bitter End often requires trial-and-error near the end - but this map had me reloading more than anything else I've played in recent memory. There's a ton of stuff in the map that kills you automatically unless you do a specific thing or set of things, and there is no way to find out what those things are without testing, dying, reloading, and trying again until you hit on the solution. And even if you know the solution, in may cases the fiddly controls mean you may still die and have to do it again. The map is extremely difficult but not in a very rewarding way. I feel that if this was the prologue to a campaign, a lot of people would likely give up before finishing it.

Cinematic Dialogue
The cinematics are pretty good technically speaking but the dialogue needs some work - some of the dialogue is unclear in what it means, and in other cases there are actual mistakes (like
Kil'Jaeden
saying "ensue" instead of "ensure" for example). I would recommend getting someone to proof it and make some improvement suggestions. Also in the very first cinematic, the camera pans right THROUGH Illidan's head, with is a bit distracting. I'd recommend making it go past one side of him or above him instead. You should try to avoid clipping through objects with the camera.

So overall: while I was very impressed with the map on a technical level, it just wasn't as fun as I'd thought it would be.
 
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deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
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Jun 4, 2009
Messages
16,197
Update based on @Soul Reaver's critique: post #39

-fixed camera clipping for the intro scene
-added some more hints (transmissions for Easy mode and edited item tooltips for both difficulties)
-save the game messages in some places on Normal mode added
-highlighted the red torches (regeneration zones) in the tunnels
-reduced the damage range of boulders
-minor changes in the end scene dialogue
 
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Well, I tested the map. Here is my review:
  • First of All, the map's gameplay is pretty hard at both difficulties. I died so many times and still I'm going to be died!! I became tired of playing it too much! I could not advance anymore of about start of it or a tenth of the map. Even the cheat codes will not help at that time. So, I think you should really lower it's difficulty to be reviewed.
  • Oh! A thing that I observed is that When I died by that ground rakes after flying by that runes at easy difficulty, I was not revived and the game was stoped at that case, but at normal one, I was revived. So, please look at your triggers to fix this issue.
I cannot fully review this map because it is too hard. I hope you lower it's difficulty to make it easier to be reviewed. So, I cannot rate it for now.
 
Level 1
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Oct 4, 2016
Messages
2
Thanks a lot for your answer mate and good luck with your hard work ! Wow, 9MB escape, nice ! Still haven't played it, not motivated enough in single player. But, about the slide you said, I have seen tons of escapes without slide, so don't worry about it, slide is not a necessity for an escape map.
 
Level 10
Joined
Oct 16, 2013
Messages
246
I like how you improved this since its first release (checkpoints and dialogs). I believe there's a little typo where it reads 'then' instead of 'than'.

Gotta say I'm stuck, but hey, I love watching Illidan dying over and over. Checkpoints really helped to make me feel less frustrated.
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 56
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Jun 4, 2009
Messages
16,197
I believe there's a little typo where it reads 'then' instead of 'than'.
Where? Please.
Gotta say I'm stuck
Where? If the walkthrough isn't helping, I could help, that if you don't want to find out for yourself of course :p

I would really appreciate suggestions from you since you've made a puzzle based map too.
 
Level 10
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Oct 16, 2013
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246
Where? Please.

At the Intro cinematic, 'I died earlier than you desired' or something.

Where?...

I'm trying to finish it without any guide, now I can't get past those glowing runes.

I would really appreciate suggestions

Well, I didn't found too many things I could complain of. I'd remove the time limit from the levitation area/warn players about it and I'd try to reduce even more the difficulty overall but that's up to you and your idea of challenge. The game is entertaining so far although I keep dying a lot.
 

deepstrasz

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Level 56
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Messages
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I can't get past those glowing runes.
It's a bit tricky. You have to realize which one is the first one to step on...
...and do not step on any other but the one that follows the first one and the second one and so on else you've got to start stepping from the start
Yeah, there isn't a proper "reset"/error message for that puzzle as opposed to a future one in that level.
I'd try to reduce even more the difficulty overall
I imagine that would lower the replayability fun since it would be really easy to play the map when you know how to get past every trial. However, I would do that on the puzzles that are considered too difficult even when the players know how to solve them.
 
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