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Somewhere Across Nowhere

Submitted by deepstrasz
This bundle is marked as approved. It works and satisfies the submission rules.
S o m e w h e r e A c r o s s N o w h e r e
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D E T A I L S

Description



The player has to pass Illidan through a series of trials in this multi-genre map (maze, puzzle, traps, fights, running and whatnot).
(I like to call it an action-puzzle game. Players have to think fast, employ their clicking reflexes, interact with units, items, doodads and terrain, be attentive to any kinds of details like colours, text, glitters and more.)

My inspiration for this creation, apart from the many Warcraft III maps & campaigns the Hive community has to offer, are also: Tomb Raider (heavily), God of War, Prince of Persia, Legacy of Kain series as well as Pyjamarama and the Legend of Kyrandia series. Of course, the so many Nintendo games must not be forgotten.


Difficulty options (are chosen after the map loads)


It is recommended to play on the first difficulty to get the hang of the game.

Easy - No defeat condition. Illidan will be revived in certain points and some previously accomplished parts will not have to be redone. Hints are more detailed. Saving and loading also works. Hints appear after a short time when the player wanders in the same place.

Normal - Dying ends the game in defeat. Saving and loading is required to progress. Writing -hint in the chat gives information about the current puzzle in some places. This also works on Easy.


Credits


Blizzard Entertainment for making Warcraft III and its editor
The Hive Workshop for keeping the map in its database


Programs & Tutorials
BB code: BB Codes | HIVE
Aesthetics' loading screen tutorial:Simple Loading Screen
Vexorian's Optimizer: Default Wc3mapoptimizer 5.0
Ladik's MPQ Editor: Ladik's MPQ Editor 32bit
Shadow Daemon's BLP Lab: BLP Lab v0.5.0




Screenshots



I

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II
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III
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IV
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V
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Other Notes



Use "whosyourdaddy" at your own risk because it can ruin the level's progression (some triggers just kill Illidan instantly, some enemy units must not die etc.); "iseedeadpeople" might create some problems. Save the game from time to time if you desire to cheat.

Just to avoid scandalous questions: the music was composed by deepstrasz; the item icons and the troll skin were edited by the map's creator using Warcraft III original material. The loading screen image was taken from the Warcraft III manual.


Soundtrack




Walkthrough


Starting Room (with Arthas, coins & troll):
Here, Illidan has to look for gold coins, spot them and keep his distance from Arthas. There is quite plenty of room to move but that doesn't mean coins can be taken in one trip towards their destination. The room has to be trod from east to west multiple times in order to keep the distance from Arthas and be able to get the coins without him cutting Illidan's escape. There are many walls in that room which Arthas will have to circumvent in order to reach his target and they also block Illidan's vision.
Once the coins are gathered, the Potion of Levitation must be bought from the troll and used in the western part of the room where the level begins (glinting place). Always keep an eye for glittering things as they are the highlighted pathway. Make Illidan use the potion there, near the runes/sparkles.​

Levitation Room (frost & spike traps):
Illidan has only 20 seconds to get to a safe point before the timer expires (that might catch him falling into a trap or back to Arthas where he will have to gather coins again or be killed by the nemesis). Be careful, the traps deal quite the damage, some even slow down the character's movement. Watch the timing of the traps.​

Room of Doors (Arthas speeding up & levers plus rocks):
The player will be advised to make multiple save files and save often (on normal). Illidan should follow the troll's path (to the east/right) and hurry as to not be attacked by the chasing Arthas. In this room, doors must be opened and closed using the levers that have to be quickly spotted and hit. When reaching the four levers and the frost traps, think of a pattern to not waste time hitting the levers (the order doesn't matter; for instance: first the northern [left/west], then southern [left/west], southern right and northern right). Also, be sure to take the Ice Boulder that's in the middle of the frost traps fire zone and use it on Arthas to stun him. Then, quickly make way to the switch and step on it. While Arthas will be busy taking the doors down, Illidan will have to find a way to open the other doors around him.
There are rock chunks that are hiding coloured stones (items). These need to be placed on their respective coloured switch. Once all rocks are on their respective switches, the doors will open. Head north towards the lowering gate, where the pink fire braziers are (they highlight the path).​

Left/west Tunnels (Illidan shrinked, rotating glaives, death circles, Yeti, fire traps & penguin):
Head a bit north, watch out for the movement of the glaives, then head west. There are more glaive corridors to pass through. Once the circles are reached make sure Illidan only gets on them while they are yellow. Don't mind the Yeti, get farther west, watch out for the two glaives that have their speed reduced once in some seconds (you might want to pass then). Reach the portal and take the penguin into the inventory. Then watch out for the other two horizontally rotating glaives. Go left/west, step on the switch to activate the fire traps near the Yeti and return there.
Put the frozen penguin on one of the black runes where the fire activates and let it thaw. Watch out, don't let the fire burn the penguin afterwards because Illidan'll have to get a frozen one from the portal again. The Yeti will come to hit the penguin after its ice melts. Don't let it do that. Instead trick the Yeti to come to the penguin to catch fire (careful with the fire pattern). Don't get inside the fire zones with the thawed penguin inside the inventory as the Yeti will attack Illidan. The creature will have to catch fire a number of times before it'll die. Once dead, take the key it leaves behind and go (with the penguin too) east and then north to the door (watch out for the glaive & circles movement pattern).​

Mid Tunnels (fire, scarabs, traps from behind & switches):
If Illidan steps into the fire to his left, he dies. To the right/east of that fire, there's a scarab. Follow it quickly and then get to safety between two walls as another scarab will come from behind. The scarabs will clash and explode. Next head east to the switch and then quickly, without stopping, to the next switch on the right. If there is any reason to get back east, be sure to remember the trap direction pattern is activated by the currently lowered switch.​

Eastern Tunnels (glaives, death circles, many other traps, runes, "lasers", giant, statue etc.):
Here, there are death circles and glaives on the same path. Be sure to see the wall carvings to get there to safety. Wait for the glaive's being out of the way and the yellow circle's appearance to synchronize and head to the middle of the cross shaped hub. There the glaives will just go around Illidan when passing but not kill him.
Next, head west, watch the glaive and circle patterns and then go south to the frost traps. Don't hurry as visibility is low until walking up the ramp. Put the penguin into the fire zone of a trap to freeze it and then take it. Go north and then to the right in the room where black wisps are. Carefully go through the zone delimited by them (don't touch them as they kill Illidan) and press the switch while having the frozen penguin on. Quickly get back to the red shield (Big Bad Voodoo) effect to avoid certain death that comes in some good seconds.
Don't hurry out the red shield as there are traps on the corridor that force the player to go in one direction. Watch their pattern and go north after them.
After following through the square edged spiral, get past the circles and wait a moment to watch the pattern of the next appearing and disappearing glittering traps. There's also a lever there. That's to reverse the black traps Illidan followed previously and the nearby circles mechanism. There's a space in the left/eastern wall. Illidan needs to get there and from there south to the switch to press it (again with the frozen penguin in his inventory).
Once the switch is pressed, return to the room where the wisps were. Take the Ignited Boots (that are in the fire; wait for it to extinguish) with the frozen penguin on. Then head south to the frozen traps and cool the boots by placing them in one of the zones of the frost traps. Be careful not to let the Cooled Boots freeze afterwards as they will need to be cooled again north, where the fire from which Illidan first took them is.
Head to the eastern part of this big region by passing through the central hub. Once there, go north where the four switches and the giant are. Be sure to quickly enter and let the giant follow Illidan to step on the switches in a sign of the cross manner (first one is the one in the north, second is the one in the south and the other two on the left and right are interchangeable). Quickly get out after all the switches are lowered and head south to the runes (now the barrier protecting the poles and runes is down).
Watch their glitters (the last move is the one in the center) and step on them in the corresponding order (as shown by the glints). Step on one, get off it and circle around to step on another and so on. The rune animations are only there to help show the pattern, they are not to be synchronized with Illidan's stepping on them. After the pattern has been correctly followed, Illidan will be in the middle surrounded by lasers. Be careful how one of the Laser Poles is taken in the inventory to not be burned by one of the beams. Then, the poles must be put in a pattern on the circular tiles, the first of which is the one the glaives are circling. The second is the one just south of the entrance to the giant's chambers. Make sure the lasers are connected to the generator.
After this, the magic barrier on the gate south of the corridor hub will disappear. Get back west to the frozen traps (the glaives and circles are not active anymore). Get south past the traps. Place the frozen penguin on the switch and wait for the statue to charge. Wait for it to go and smash the gate. Take the penguin and go through the door.​

Water Basins (golems & Arthas chasing again):
Head south to the big circle to become normal again. Then, walk up the ramp and quickly take the big golem and put it on its corresponding spot that mirrors its current spot. Hastily, get the two smaller ones in the inventory and place them on their corresponding spots (memorize which of the two was first taken so you'll know where it should be placed). Next, cross the platform and again take the big golem and place it on its corresponding place. Next, the medium sized one and lastly the small one (be careful that here the spots are not exactly mirrored but slightly crosswise).​

Frost Mountains (Arthas, Maiev, Orb of Froustmourne, Ancient & Altar):

Run south towards the ice blockade. Wait for Arthas to come closer and watch as he is "killed" by Maiev who then blinks away. Take the orb that Maiev leaves on the snow and destroy the blockade. Next, Illidan will have to destroy a corrupted Ancient. Be sure not to get hit by its attacks and not to let treants clutter (they also restore a little of Illidan's life upon dying). Basically, it's dodge and hit. After the Ancient is destroyed, Illidan has to leave the orb in an Altar of Ancients to the west for the gates to open. Watch the cinematic scene or skip it. Get through the Way Gate.​

Portals Zone (stalker, circles, even more circles):
Now, here you'll have to keep a good eye on the green circles. Don't step on any blue circles or the pattern will reset. Try to be near the center of the pattern zone to make it easier to get to them in time. Also, mind the ghastly beast as it can make Illidan step on the wrong circle (use Hold Position when needed). There are two patterns. After completing them get back to the target spot of the Way Gate where the glittering runes are and get to the next zone.
Here, the circles have to be turned all into green so Illidan can be able to get back towards the teleportation site. Turning one of the circles to a different colour than green, the gate will raise and block the way out. There is not much time to think about it since the monster is on Illidan's tail. Either using a real paper to discover the pattern after seeing how many colour changes are from green to green or by following this: first go to the third circle (south), then through the first (north), then again through the third, then through the first, again step on the third and then on the second (middle); walk on the third, the first and lastly on the third and second. Done. Escape to the runes.
In this next zone, go south and look for the strange crystal. Then, watch the red circles patterns and step only on the black ones.​

Boulders Corridors (pillars & runic tiles):
With the crystal Illidan needs to get close to the pillars on the right and left of each corridor that will activate. Watch out for the boulders. They will change their path from horizontal to vertical after each of the two pairs of pillars are activated.​

Sunken Basin (water rising, runic tiles again):
Here, absolute care not to step on the wrong runic tiles or otherwise there will be no more time to complete the pattern. The War Stomp effect means wrong, the Thunder Clap effect means right. The rune pairs in the previous room (where the boulders were) help to decipher the puzzle. The rune on the southern ramp means that's how the first rune in the water looks while the one on the northern ramp shows the last rune in the water of the pattern.​

Antidote Room (damage per second to Illidan, seals, weed & tuskarr):
Meet the troll that's going to ask for something. Give him the crystal so that Illidan will get a potion. Use this potion so that the troll will disappear and quickly go east to find something to heal as the potion gives a sickness.
Head east through the seals then north and then west. Get the weed then head east and south down the ramp and then west to the next weed. Get back on the ramp and head east then south for the third weed. Then, head back, cross the bridge and a bit south to cross the parallel bridge. Go east, a bit south, get the weed and cross the bridge back. Head west and then south to cross a smaller bridge. Then, go east, cross the bridge to the east and head south and get down that doodad ramp to get the next weed. Turn back and head east but don't go south the ramp but a bit more east. Head south, take the weed and turn back to the ramp to take that weed as well. Quickly, go west, cross the bridge, don't go west on the ramp. Instead go south, on the bridge and then west until reaching the ramp to the water zone. Get there and head east to the ramp, walk up, then quickly west to the last weed.
Now, get east to the tuskarr. He will turn Illidan into a seal and leave through a portal. Once through, quickly get south to the ruins before the tuskarr hunters kill Illidan.​

Levitation Rooms (walk-fly circles, various traps, elementals, pheonixes, runes etc.):
Once the gate closes, Illidan will be restored. Watch out for the arrows. The red ones hit flying units while the green hit Illidan when walking. Go east to the runic tile and step on it. Then head to the western part of the room to step on the other one. Afterwards get into the circle just north of the runic tile to fly (watch out for the fire as it kills).
Now step on all runes that are up: one is in the left upper corner, one in the right upper corner and two are in the middle of the room). Afterwards, head south through the newly opened gate. Watch the pattern of the phoenixes as they deal damage to aerial units.
Head west to the room with the huge phoenix and step on all highland runes. Don't miss the lever south of the entrance into that room (hit it). Get back and step on the circle on the right/east to walk. Get into the eastern room where the banshees are. Watch their pattern and get south to hit the two levers and return to the elementals & pheonixes room. Then, head into the southern room. Careful with the green elemental patterns and head west and then north back into the room with the huge creatures. Step on the runes and get out of the room and through the opened gate to the west.​

Doppelganger Regions (demon Illidan, Gul'dan, traps, Kael, Kil'jaeden, Dragon Shield etc.):
Head south and be careful not to get too close to the red Illidan. Head east through the long corridor and then quickly south without stopping as Gul'dan will follow and kill Illidan if he touches him. In this part of the level, just be careful not to touch the red Illidan or let Gul'dan touch the real Illidan. Just have to memorize or have a quick eye to get through the cleared passages.
After reaching the end of the labyrinth, red Illidan will mirror the real I'dan's movements. Dodge the wisps and touch the green runes when they appear. The pattern of the wisps changes multiple times (be careful) every time after four runes are consumed. Also, dodge Kael's Flame Strike. When the frost traps appear, the runes (now red) will only have a healing effect on Illidan but will not damage the ganger. To hurt the doppelganger, Illidan will have to stand in one of those frost traps while the ganger does the same. After 10 hits, pursue the ganger.
Run away from him while Tharifas and the Phoenix are battling. After Tharifas dies, the Dragon Shield is dropped. Take that and use the ability it gives to reflect the demon's attacks (use the ability when the demon's projectile is about to hit Illidan). Meanwhile dodge Kael's Flame Strike and do not stay on the low ground when it turns blood red as Illidan will die. After the demon is defeated the ending scene starts.​


History



  • ~2010-2011: creation started and designed/desired to be a campaign level
  • ~2014-2016 (this last one, the most): continued working on it and uploaded on the 14th of July as a standalone map due to its different gameplay mechanics
  • 11/10/2016: updated with a new difficulty option that integrates a checkpoint system (also suggested by gusanomental)
  • 18/12/2016: added two models, fixed an issue with music, edited and supplemented some dialogues & updated to the latest patch
  • 27/12/2016: minor update based on tyci's advice
  • 30/12/2016: little update after Soul Reaver's remarks
  • 05/01/2017: more hints and a command for that on Normal; reduced the damage of black wisps
  • 15/01/2017: fixed an issue reported by PrinceYaser: here and added a dialogue line
  • 20/10/2017: post#53 mostly based on tyci and Soul Reaver's remarks
  • 14/03/2018: mandatory update post#54
  • 15/03/2018: minor update (post#56) based on old_edge5's comments
  • 21/03/2018: important update (post#59) after old_edge5's video report
  • 22/03/2018: minor update (post#63) on old_edge5's comments (1 & 2)
  • 23/03/2018: mini update (post#65+post#67) based on old_edge5's feedback (+post)
  • 24/03/2018: small update (post#69) partially on old_edge5's comments
  • 29/06/2018: minor change for an imported file
  • 26/02/2019: minor changes + released an unprotected version for learning purposes (post#78)
  • 29/03/2019: minor changes based on Abishkar's comments (post #85)
  • 29/03/2019: quality of life changes based on Imperator's feedback (post #86)
  • 17/05/2019: credits revised ingame
  • 21/06/2019: Illidan has Blink now in the first room
  • 22/06/2019: edited and added some dialogues to make them less vague


Possible Issues



  1. -if the map doesn't start/load via the game, try installing the newest patch version
  2. -the game might crash while the level loads/starts if the video options are not set to the highest quality (thanks to Rufus for the info!)
  3. -if loading a saved game results in a crash, try loading it again; if it still doesn't work restart the .exe/game and load the save file
  4. -if you cannot see the map in the game, try shortening the filename by renaming it


Changelog



  • -Rasofe reported some bugs that have been fixed
  • -reduced the speed of some glaives and highlighted the levers in the third room when Illidan gets somewhat near them
  • -added another difficulty (easy) with checkpoints system (thanks gusanomental for the suggestion); also reduced damage of glaives and tweaked the music a bit
  • -changed a model and added another one, fixed an issue with music that suddenly randomly stopped and started over, edited and supplemented some dialogues & updated map file version to the latest patch
  • -modified some hints for Easy mode, implemented high from above camera for the tunnels, edited the tooltip of some items for the better, reduced the Yeti's HP and hound's damage and added some transmissions (thanks tyci)
  • -fixed camera clipping for the intro; added more hints, transmissions and edited item tooltips (mostly for easy mode); minor end game dialogue edits; decreased the damage range of boulders; red regeneration torches in the tunnels revamped (thanks Soul Reaver for the many remarks)
  • -added a -hint chat command for Normal mode and reduced the damage of the wisps in the tunnels
  • -fixed an issue with respawning on easy difficulty (thanks PrinceYaser for reporting) and added one transmission
  • -edited some hints, reduced some damage of things, fixed an issue with the coins, increased water filling puzzle time
  • -released unprotected version for studying purposes
  • -minor update most importantly related to Illidan not fleeing anymore while attacked
  • -some quality of life changes especially in the first room
  • -updated credits in the quest log
  • -added Blink for Illidan in the first room
  • -for further inquiries see the History section
Contents

Somewhere Across Nowhere (Map)

Reviews
Kino
Is this a well designed, well polished map? yes. Is it an enjoyable map? personally yes, kinda. Individually, I enjoyed the different challenges the map offers. I also liked how as you transitioned from one segment to the next, the brief cutscene...
  1. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

    Map Reviewer

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    You've tested the newly uploaded version? By the way, you can write test in the chat box to get to the elevator that leads to the tunnels and then after being shrunk, write test2 to get teleported to the fire traps. You still have to activate them and take the penguin (if it's not already on you) again.
    Wait... watched the video. It's working as intended but you have to think on how to use the penguin to kill the beast.
    It does make sense. You're just not paying attention to what happens when the fire strikes the frozen penguin.
    Yes, long range smell :p but there is something not letting the Yeti sense that well. Correlate this hint with the sentence above.
    Hmm? I'm not sure I follow. The spikes deal damage when they appear and the frost traps too but they also slow you down. About the orc barricade doodad, they instantly kill you if the timer ends and you fall on them. Oh, you realized it yourself. Well, the timer expires, it's only 20 seconds so if you don't hurry and take too much time to pass the on-off traps then you might fall. There's a countdown timer that appears on the top right corner.
    Yes, it's a game issue, I guess. I forgot to make the fire traps area visible in this update when you're nearby. No need to prove it via a video. I knew of the issue but just didn't think it'd be too problematic. It's annoying, it's true.
    Yes, that might be one of the reasons. I usually test listening to music :D I'll see if I can "fix" it, although that is quite unimportant. Thanks for the detail, it means you're a perfectionist.

    Thanks again @old_edge5.
     
  2. old_edge5

    old_edge5

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    Hey man.

    Allright. I paid more attention and solved it now. Frozen and fire.. makes sense :DD

    But I don't want to disappoint you here, as your debugging assistant. (Another bug: 2018-03-22-1105-46.mp4 at sec 35)

    Also I realized the sound bug at the fire traps only occurs when the middle one fires up. And the vision bug is still happening and this time now that i knew what i had to do it was actually more annoying. :D

    Yeah I'm a little perfectionist. And I think at giving feedback this characteristic might be actually useful. I really like to help improving things. Otherwise this one is just slowing me down as fuck. :D

    Until the next time :)
     
  3. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

    Map Reviewer

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    Yeah, me too.
    Oh what the hell man...
    By the way, have you used the test and test2 chat commands when that happened?
    I could not reproduce the death issue bug. I went to the scarab and then to the fire and then to the glaive but I was revived. Weird. Save the game from time to time just in case it repeats.
    You can write test and get moved to the tunnels receiving the key and penguin.



    Update:
    -made the fire traps zone more visible; fire sound seems to be heard correctly
    -changed Yeti's model
     
  4. old_edge5

    old_edge5

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    Here is how it happens: (2018-03-22-1859-11.mp4 and 1 more file) It happens when Im at the nearest to the southern wall in that part.

    And I triggered an infinite earthquake at some point. I think I pulled the giant a lot of times in a short amount of time. Might broke because of some overlapping timers or something?

    And when you stand in the middle of, yeah, lets call it roundabout of glaves :D, there's another little vision issue.

    Also can I just say how really annoying the Yellow/Light Blue Circle-Part is? I mean when you get killed by glaves, I feel like okay, I didn't have the right timing, thats fair. You could say the same for the circles except it just feels like the game is an enormous asshole to me when it teleports me ALL the way back to the first two circles. I think there could be a tiny little offset after it gets Light Blue that prevents you from being teleported back immediately just at the very absolute exact millisecond it gets blue, but within the reaction time of the brain to realize the change, and this then also prevents from getting thoughts like "That damn thing was yellow. I HAAATE YOU!" Im not hating here, but this part gives me the feeling that the game wastes my time and thats what usually stops me from playing no matter if after this part it gets better. I think those hard-core punishments would fit a more difficult mode, thats played by people that like the challenge to do a clean run. Just my player perspective to consider. (Still love the whole concept, don't get me wrong here :) )

    The giant puzzle lets me wonder if there is something on the other sides i need. But as I am frequently teleported back to that part it seems to be solveable without any further material. I cant figure it out though since I cant outrun the giant and also cant reach or grab one of the poles. Also theres nothing that reacts to clicks. Im pretty sure those platforms have a connection to the glyphs and the poles, as the magnetism holding the poles could probably be switched off with the platforms, but I dont really know what to do. Illidans position and a left over penguin seem to be the only things I can control. Sadly I can't block the giant with the penguin either, so.. I really wish Arthas wouldnt have killed the troll.

    And by the way thanks very much that you give me some convenience commands :=)

    Until the next time
    old_edge
     
  5. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    Heh, the region was not wide enough.
    Uh, I've had problems with this in the past. Wait a minute... Do you mean the quake still shakes after getting out of the giant's zone? I do not see that in the video. If not, then it works as intended. The shaking lasts as long as you are in the giant's room :D It's to make the puzzle harder. Although it shouldn't really shake where you stood if the giant isn't moving. But, I didn't see how it started to freeze like that. Never mind, just tested it myself and yeah...
    I think it might be fixed now.
    By the way, I'm glad the map is working on the newest patches.
    Well, the glaives are visible. I've increased their sight range to make their visibility better.
    Added a respawn point right in the middle if your reach (glaive roundabout zone) it first.
    Hmm. There's a pattern. If you count, you'll realize when the longest yellow comes. I'll try changing it if you still feel the same way with the waypoint in the middle.
    Your wonder is a reality.
    Haha. Just try it and tell me if you've succeeded that way. Also, that would be cheating too :p
    :D that's a funny idea for future stuff, maybe :p
    But he had it coming did he not? Ask Arthas. Don't worry, there'll b more flying about but not due to a potion.

    Just write test, get down to shrink and then write test2. You'll get instantly moved to the beginning of the four glaives corridors.



    Minor update:
    -fixed an issue with Illidan not respawning near the entrance to the shrink tunnels
    -added a revival point in the hub of the four glaives; made the vision there better
    -repaired the constant shaking issue with the giant
    -changed the model of the shadowy beast and that of the giant
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2018
  6. old_edge5

    old_edge5

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    little fix, though waaaay better

    Yeah I know, it sometimes feels like I acually made it, though I didn't. But I think its alright at the moment. But I guess the first opinion is the most relevant, as you just go with how the puzzles work without questioning its flaws anymore at some point.

    A few bugs I encountered this time:

    1. When you enter the white platform in the area of the black wisps, two monologs, nearly identical do appear. Both times about that Illidan is not heavy enough and first about carrying a penguin and second thrawing (sth like that), whatever that means, the penguin.
    2. When you then got the checkpoint at the platform there, theres a way to avoid the wisp's pathway, but just follow the northern wall. If you then die at the one wisp remaining in the way you got the checkpoint back in the hallway again without actually reaching it before and will be revived there instead of at the platform position.
    3. I feel like the frost trap lack a special effect on Illidan.
    4. Also I feel that the area they affect is slightly too big. I don't have a video this time to explain, but I have the feeling that a little perfectionist adjusting would fix the feel here, if you understand. :) It seems just a little too sensitive, the trap.
    5. Why would you give a hint on saving at the entrance to the wisp area, when there is a checkpoint a few steps away?

    What I meant by that is that getting the checkpoint in the giants area is indicating that this one puzzle is now due to be solved. It's indicating that you don't need to go somewhere else to solve this, because why else would you get a checkpoint here? It's this implying communication you expect from the game.
    I suggest not giving the player the checkpoint back there until the requirements to be ready for the giant are met AND triggering a monolog when Illidan died the third time on the giant. Thats giving the player some certainty and he feels like he actually found a clue instead of only failing the puzzle.

    Thanks again for the test commands. Id be grateful if you could give me the wisp position next time :)) This is a quite odd one as well. (together with the thing behind the frost traps) Couldnt figure it out so far. Ill try next time.

    Until the next time :)
    old_edge
     
  7. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    Yeah, forgot about that. It's because of the difficulty option I added later on. Oh darn, I wrote the total opposite. It's freeze.
    Because the puzzle cannot be repeated if you die when it is activated. So you actually lose the fun of completing it properly. You also get that notice right before reaching the fire and water scarabs.
    I'll have to see what this is about. Well, it's tricky since you actually reached the entrance to that room right before dying and that spot sets the waypoint for a bit south, just north of the frost traps. I'll change it to the spot your reach to instead.
    Eh, this is irrelevant at this point. I'll see what I can do.
    I'll have to test myself to see if this is a issue. I didn't really find it to be so. You're not supposed to cross with only the penguin through there by the way.
    You get a checkpoint there so you won't have to start from the northern part or who knows where else. I don't see a problem with this. It's also a puzzle in itself for you to realize that you cannot simply do something there without "help" or exploring other rooms. I've played a lot of puzzle point and click games, so you get where some of the inspiration comes from.
    I'll go with the second part of the phrase.

    Remember, test, get down to shrink and then test2.



    Minority report:
    -added a hint about the giant and Illidan's speed
    -fixed the black wisp zone hints and room entrance waypoint; added a few more wisps
    -made a special effect when Illidan gets hit by the salvo of frost traps; tweaked their position
     
  8. old_edge5

    old_edge5

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    Okay... , because I died a lot of times in the wisps. I didn't notice how I could possibly screw it completely as you say.

    Sorry :D :D .. So, it's much better, but you took the very special effect, that has the identical sound effect like the frost traps do and that is a little tiny bit not optimal. I think the frost spell of the Naga Royal Guard could fit, but don't know. :) But I very much appreciate that you care about these details I bring up so annoyingly often, though. :D
    Also speaking about the frost traps. The sound for the frost traps is only triggered for half of the frost traps the other half remains silent.

    Yeah youre monolog correction made everything clear now. (Although is a frozen penguin really heavier than a normal one? Philsophial question.)

    About the sensitivity I felt the same with the lever room and the glowing shiny killing balls appearing there now. (Also I think Illidan lacks a special effect here. Or a sound. Just something) I very much think a little offset would be perfect here :) Because this feels like gambling here so far.


    I see your point. This is really a very subjective matter. The checkpoint back in the hub would be a nice little hint towards the solution, though, I feel.
    Speaking of nice little hints: I very much like how the part after the wisps room is done. This is leading you in the right direction, really well done. Which doesn't mean I always want to have these obvious hints, but it's refreshing though. (And as I remember this, I think there could fit a special effect on Illidan when he's dying as well. Maybe that corruption thing you used on the troll in the beginning. But your feeling counts, if its not too much at some point. :) )

    Nice, didn't have the time to check it yet cause I didn't make it out of the Lever room yet :D (A start after this would be luxurous, but is not really necessary. I can play that part again.)

    Thanks for the good work :)
    Until the next time
    old_edge
     
  9. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    Yeah, forgot to see what that is about. It's because the played sound lasts longer than 1 second and it takes one 1 second for the other traps to start. Had to use variables to stop the sound manually.
    Slightly, since it has water over it which is frozen. That's how I imagined it whilst the penguin is mostly dry.
    You just have to pay attention to the pattern and the free spaces you have to go to. I'd have to remake the whole trap thing there to create the slack you're referring to. If I increase the time before they appear, then you might be able to cross right to the switch from the lever instead of doing it the correct way. Just, don't give up so easily. It's easier than the blinking circles.
    About the fx, I can't seem to do it for some reason it just doesn't want to work :| I guess you'll have to imagine it. I've added sound instead. The other nearby appearing traps also remain only with sound and no hit effect.

    test->shrink->test2. You have to do the wisp thing again. You can use whosyourdaddy to do it faster.



    Lil' update:
    -changed frost traps hit fx and their sound issue
    -added sound to the white sparks near the lever
    -the water basin becomes all visible when reaching it
    -placed one more waypoint midway to the giant lava spawn
     
  10. Fruit Forest

    Fruit Forest

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    You could use triggerting sound but you can create dummy destructible that plays sound on its death. Create destructible and kill instantly. It plays sound without the delay.
     
  11. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    So do I attach the sound to destructibles via triggers or is there a way to set it in the object editor? I'm using the normal World Editor by the way.
     
  12. Fruit Forest

    Fruit Forest

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    Every destructible has Sound on death effect in the object editor.
     
  13. Wrda

    Wrda

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    This music has some strange parts, where there are too many solos and rather "calm" ambient rather than spooky 0:00-0:46 is good but then from 0:47 to before the violoncello glissando starts is just too weird, doesn't seem like it belongs to the music itself. Then you have a clarinet solo, which is too calm not even spooky. If this is a soundtrack, don't make it sound like it's a concerto for a solo instrument, avoid solos as much as possible, there can be a solo but not for more than 5 seconds specially if it's not an harmonic based instrument. Avoid repeating the same material always the same way, add more cromatic scales for a spooky effect and more instruments playing, it is kind of too empty. The second part of the music works and sounds much better.
    I didn't play the map yet, I can't do it at moment but I will do it later.
     
  14. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    Hey guys, although I appreciate the thumbs up, I wish you also write a few words as to why you've given the stars. I really want an honest rating.
     
  15. pleasancer benediction

    pleasancer benediction

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    Interesting @deepstrasz i will play ASAP as soon i finish shars second chapter of human campaign, im sure this game is one of those involved heavily on brains and wits and smart call decision yes!
     
  16. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    Sorry for the update spam. I did some experiments to make the description less bulky.
     
  17. Abishkar

    Abishkar

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    This is sheer talent, man. I hope you continue this :D
     
  18. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    Update
    -changed the loading screen as it didn't work on newer patches
    -Arthas without the horse has a proper model now
    -edited some texts
    -added slow sound for glaives temporarily being slowed
    -some hint tweaking
    -Illidan shortly becomes green when stepping on the right rune during the coloured runes puzzle
    -released an unprotected version for learning purposes (it is not open source meaning editing of the map and redistribution is not allowed)
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 26, 2019
  19. Abishkar

    Abishkar

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    Okay, just completed the map, my god, oooofff, it was hard man!
    Review -
    Terrain (FM:5)
    - Better than Average
    - Some terrain bugs here and there [the black spots on terrain]
    - Illidan appears to be Spiderman! [he appears to be walking on the walls]

    Marks -
    2.5/5 [Can be improved]

    Cinematics and Cameras (FM:5)
    - Well created cinematics
    - Well arrangement of top-view cameras
    - The camera movements in the cinematics often tell players what to do
    - Cinematics skippable
    Marks - 4.5/5 [Well Done]

    Ideas and different puzzles (FM:2.5)

    - Well influenced and carried out puzzles on the Warcraft Engine
    - Gives the players challenges and lets them use brains

    Marks - 2.5/2.5 [Excellent]

    Pathing [FM : 1.5]

    - Well carried out but problematic sometimes
    - At the beginning, there is not much space in movement and Arthas inevitably kills you. It is hard to do in normal mode.

    Marks - 0.5/1.5 [Okay]

    Triggering [FM : 5]

    - Absolutely great triggering, but it awfully lagged on my computer [maybe it is for my computer, so not deducting. Are you sure you saw to every memory leak?]

    Marks - 5/5 [Perfectly done]

    Noob-Friendly[FM:1]
    - Absolutely not noob friendly, I am afraid. Does contain -hint commands, but they are not always working. Normal mode can be only played by those who have already played once.
    - Really hard from the very beginning.

    Marks - 0/1 [Not Noob-Friendly]

    [Other topics like story, AI, etc. are Not Applicable]

    Sum Total Review :
    15/20


    My Review on Hive: 15/20 x 5 = 3.75 ~ 4/5

    PROS :

    - Challenging
    - Great for long map lovers
    - Non-canon and without any long intros, lets players play directly
    NEUTRAL :
    - Contains Puzzles which needs you to use brains.
    CONS :
    - Terrain a little dull
    - Might be frustrating at times
    - Does not have any proper character development, and your hero doesn't gain any points or abilities
    - Very hard (Most of the map)

    Would love another map from you, deepstrasz!
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
  20. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    Never will be my forte as I won't invest too much time in it :)
    Really!? Like what, would you please take a screenshot of some so I know what you mean.
    Yeah, it's because of the invisible platforms. It was a pain to do that shrinking business with terrain between cliffs where virtually no ground unit can fit in unless collision is off. It's where the platforms saved me but with the price of weird pathing.
    Indeed. I'm not sure if it's actually the engine itself or me not knowing exactly how to make things damage Illidan in a smooth way.
    True. Many players had had issues with that but making the place wider would make it too easy because Arthas moves slower than Illidan. The idea is for you to discover the zone first and then realize you can draw Arthas to the zone where the troll is and then come back to the starting zone collect some coins and repeat so that you let Arthas be as far as Illidan as possible.
    It's not recommended to play on Normal from the first go. I don't think I mentioned it ingame (or at all).
    I didn't get errors as I tend to the leaks. Do you remember where the map started lagging? Where was Illidan, during which puzzle?
    It works in some places where I thought players might need hints. Yeah, it's not recommended to play normal first unless you have experience with the genre.
    Well, I am not sure this should be a con since it's like saying football is not for football lovers. This also applies to the pro. By the way, having that both as a pro and con basically makes it null.
    Well this also shouldn't be a con (depending on context of course) since most escape/puzzle maps are devoid of any story whatsoever. But I agree with you that it doesn't have character development.
    In terms of story, there is a little one, Illidan escaping from Arthas' Frostmourne. Note, that all this happens while Illidan is unconscious. It's a semidream state where even the dead/undead have a real presence. I am planning to let Illidan explain this happening in an interlude of the campaign I'm working on if hopefully I'll be able to.

    I'm curious if you finished the map without any cheat :p and if you had any need for the walkthrough or not.

    Thank you for your time!
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019