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Roundtable Flame/Discussion about Beliefs

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by mr subs, Jan 4, 2012.

  1. MGCǂSpectre

    MGCǂSpectre

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    I know!!!!! Kung Lao was throwing his hat xD
     
  2. Magtheridon96

    Magtheridon96

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    I recall seeing other paintings with saucers in them (They looked like cigars)
     
  3. akqpars

    akqpars

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    Since anyone (along with a lifetime researches) has ultimately put an end in these discussions, which is a loophole that wont be filled with any ego in an unstable state of mind, that even cant overcome the basic animal insticts. Everybody will be alone at their 2 by 1 graves whatever.
     
  4. RiotZ

    RiotZ

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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Necro(n) post.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Vunjo

    Vunjo

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    Speaking of God and religion, I do believe in Him. Actually, I don't see a reason not to believe in God. As some tales from bible cannot be described well, I think it's part of the reason why the religion exists, to show something which cannot be showed just like that. Also, I think that those prophets, and those who were writing history and bible were actually telling the truth. The religion we know now cannot be understood completely, neither it wants us to, but I think that they would come up with a more believe-able story than what's written. They wrote some miracle facts on purpose, to impress people, teach them basics of law in life, and well, to make them think a little.

    I really stick to part where I said "They could have come up with a better story", because I think it's exactly the reason why they wrote such tales.
     
  6. Boris_Spider

    Boris_Spider

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    You want a miracle? This thread not becoming a troll haven will be a miracle...

    1) Which religion? (I'm just curious)
    2) Why would religion not want to be understood completely? Is it afraid of losing "appeal" after all of the mystery is over?
    3) How does religion encourage thinking, and what type of thinking? - A god is the ultimate answer to everything, so thinking isn't necessary ...not to mention faith discourages questioning.

    //\\0o//\\
     
  7. En_Fuego

    En_Fuego

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    I'm a Muslim and disagree 100% with everything Vunjo said...
     
  8. MGCǂSpectre

    MGCǂSpectre

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    The only option I see is if Him is from another dimension which I still cannot imagine how it exists that is how can it exist, and that the dimension thingy also is related to another universe and of course another planet. So that makes all claims correct: spiritual: you could say so if at higher frequency, alien or Marie implanted by other beings of that kind which also are described as coming with spaceship *aka aliens.

    At the same time the propaganda done on movies about Aliens, all people who come forward to speak about it, all who tell stories, all witnesses, some eventuallt proven to be fake and lying, I don't get what's the idea of making a propaganda about false things.

    If this is all just propaganda and programing of the masses, what's the point? As a researcher of ETs I am not very convinced I can find ONE real person who isn't lying

    that's disappointing, then what the fuck is it? False alien invasion? Covering up high technology some countries have developed and callung it ET so that people dont think countries posses high technology??

    But even if people believed aliens, then logically with aliens come taking technology from them? SO how is THIS LIE aka FALSE ALIEN STORIES helping HIDE SCIENTIFIC DISCOVERIES when logically if you made people believe in aliens with such propaganda, it actually makes it people say - then we posses THEIR technology - that is people will still think countries have such weapons. What is this??? The questions DRIVING ME CRAZY!
     
  9. Boris_Spider

    Boris_Spider

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    Come again?

    //\\0o//\\
     
  10. Joe-black-5

    Joe-black-5

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    You are? o_O
     
  11. Vunjo

    Vunjo

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    1) I am a Christian.
    2) It is very difficult, and almost impossible to think of what happened in past by bible, if we understand it exactly as it says. By that, Moses had to somehow open the Red sea, summon all those 7 wraths on the Egyptian Empire.
    3) It makes you think not all things written are correct, it makes you use your own head. Also, it makes you think which events happened, and which are slightly modified in the book.

    @En_Fuego, You are contradicting yourself. You do believe in your God, but can't trust some things prophets have said. How? :O You can't both believe in a God and think He doesn't exists at the same time, which you almost said, by saying I am wrong, in part "Prophets could be telling the truth.".

    Also, we are completely different believes, no wonder we don't agree.
     
  12. En_Fuego

    En_Fuego

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    My bad, more like 98% disagree :p

    Disagree. I don't think you should believe in God because you see no reason not to. There are plenty of reasons not to and there are plenty of reasons to. The wise person (whether religious or not) is the one who sifts through and comes to their own decision. Your decision calculus, in my opinion, is very flawed.

    Maybe for Christianity...I don't have this problem with Islam though (so again, disagree).

    I don't think it's a question of "true or false" it's a question of belief vs non-belief. Furthermore, the stories themselves aren't tests of truth...that's why they're stories. (They either happened or they did not, but that does not make them 'true' or 'false')

    Maybe you can't understand Christianity because of some neurotic disorder, but I don't really have any trouble comprehending any religious text. (Maybe I'm just insane though).

    I believe they wrote those to get people hooked in, rather than teach them...

    That literally makes no sense.

    Typical arrogant Christian rhetoric; spouting off nonsense about how because we have different beliefs that we cannot agree on anything absolute. I suppose you also belong to the traditionalist sect and think that when you get married your wife should act subservient to you?
     
  13. Vunjo

    Vunjo

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    Exactly, there are plenty of reasons to believe, and not to believe in God. But if He indeed exists, nothing bad will happen if you do believe in him. In the end, if you are religious, only good thing may happen.

    About describing some events, I do not think some of events from bible really happened (which ends up as we have different God, different past to believe, we can't really argue about it).

    If you believe/do not believe in something, that means in your opinion it either happened or not, like you said, which can be either completely correct, partly, or absolutely wrong. So in theory, there is "true or false", where only few things about past are completely true/false.

    You can't really explain that Moses somehow opened the Red Sea (Yes, I know I already said it, but that's the hardest event to understand In my opinion), but he had to find a way to somehow cross it.

    They wrote some events on purpose with many reasons. First of all, we must know, that even they needed money, and some handwritten past was affected by human greed (Like I said, some, not all, not none). It can happen because of polithics as well. It's quite simple actually, since even we have many reasons to sometimes lie, they can have same/similar reasons as well.

    If you think a little (no offense) about "They could have come up with a better story" part, you may find logic in it. If they really wanted us to believe in something, they wouldn't write miracles to happen. They would more likely compare it to something which includes both science and religion, as current religion is, and it always was completely out of scientific facts. On the other hand, they may have written it with such power on purpose, to get at a better position in polithics, to get more valuable things. Also, it's not just me coming up with that idea, to be more exact, both a priest in church and the religious teacher told me so. I love talking to grown up people, they do know something, and the fact that even a priest is a little against religion (in some parts, don't take it wrong) is impressive.

    My post was 0% arrogant. You were posting your sentence because you know me from past, as little arrogant kid, which makes your mind automatically think that my posts are offensive. You haven't thought of the possibility that people change. If I am wrong here, please tell me, but in any way, my post was not arrogant even a bit. In this post, I already said few things which is only based on Christianity, thus speaking of different religions is needed in such conversations. About wife, well, I do not have reason to have one, nor will I ever want to live with another person.
     
  14. brad.dude03

    brad.dude03

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    Oh man, one of these. Welp: I'm Agnostic, and anyone who is a firm believer in a religious institution, or an atheist, is an idiot. I tend to be more sympathetic to the atheists, but honestly right now militant atheist neckbeardy fucks piss me off just as much as the jesus freaks.

    Here's the deal, folks. It's quite possible that there's some kind of afterlife, some kind of higher power, all manner of unknown mystery concerning the universe that we don't jack from shit about. Very likely. Look at how far science has taken us in the last hundred years. Anyone who tells me that we already know every thing there is to know about the higher mysteries just because some guy wrote it in a fucking book 2 thousand years ago needs to be forcibly reeducated.

    Honestly, it's been said before, but I'll say it again: organized religion of nearly every form is a crock of shit. Being spiritual is not. It's perfectly okay to be spiritual, and is actually probably healthy, in its own way. Organized religion, on the other hand, is dogmatic, often twisted to extremes, and really does not do anyone any good. At all. Yeah, people need to feel like they 'belong' to something but if you're really so insecure about these issues maybe you should fucking think about them instead of just going with the herd to placate yourself.

    AT THE VERY SAME TIME, it is so extremely arrogant to assume that the universe is dead and empty when the signs that it is not are all around us. The miracle of human consciousness should inspire hope for higher mysteries in anyone. Our world never stops astounding me, and while we may one day definitively find out that there is no afterlife, or there is no god, whatever, until then I reserve my right to sit on the fence about it.

    I think the take-home point here is to make up your own damn mind about the universe, one way or another. For me, that means recognizing that it's basically impossible for us to understand the mysteries of god(s) and their intentions, and impossible to know if they even exist. I have not seen one credible argument for the existence, or non-existence, of god, in my entire time here on earth. No one has been able to prove anything to me one way or another, so I say fuck both.
     
  15. Kwah

    Kwah

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    I'm always confused by people who make the distinction between atheism and agnosticism on either side of the debate. I guess it works as a way to divide the militant from the not, but the technical definition of atheism is just a lack of belief in deities. Whereas agnosticism is the belief that we don't know if there is a god.

    As someone who understands science, not knowing something and not believing it are one and the same. Without evidence to support it, I don't have a belief in it. Could a 'God' exist? Yeah, sure.

    Will I believe in one without some positive (or negative, I guess?) proof? No, because that would be silly.
     
  16. busterkomo

    busterkomo

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    The important thing is you've found a way to feel superior to both.
     
  17. brad.dude03

    brad.dude03

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    The best part is that NO ONE has thus far been able to give me a reason not to!

    That's what I'm fuckin' talking about.
     
  18. MGCǂSpectre

    MGCǂSpectre

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    Would I be favored if I say that either someone really wanted to control people by creating all these texts, OR if they are true (because I think scientifically there may have been a great flood after the last Ice Age, idk why it is denied, and some other events may have been true), then the only thing that someone can be coming from the sky in light and flame (and dragons) could be someone advanced - time traveler (I do not believe this is possible though, going to e.g Middle Ages), from another planet? Besides the drawings, texts a good example how a MACHINE would be named after an animal is how Native Americans called the Trains - 'Iron Horses'. Following this logic, and many other clues, I think it is possible that the so called Dragons and aura may have been a flying machine. So all these lies called RELIGION made to control people is either a work of Them, or such evil minds were merely human. Agreed?
     
  19. fladdermasken

    fladdermasken

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    My view is a loosely knitted version of the anthropic principle. I observe, therefore the universe exists. If no concious life observes the universe, then for all intents and purposes it doesn't exist. Applying this, I haven't observed anything that must carry the touch of an omnipotent deity: therefore, for all intents and purposes, such a deity doesn't exist in a world that I perceive.

    Or rather, my belief in its existence would be irrelevant.

    You could obviously refute that I will be affected by it regardless of whether or not I have observed it. But from a supposedly infinite set of things that could potentially exist and affect me, I confine it to things I have a self-estimated reason for believing in.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2012
  20. brad.dude03

    brad.dude03

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    Pretty much no. Sounds cool, but no. A lot of the crazier stuff from the Bible is borrowed from other sources, and you'll notice that many of the most famous parts are borrowed from other traditions.

    You assume that people wanted to use religion to control, which, initially, was not true. Religious beliefs are no different from mythology- people wanted an explanation of why the world is the way it is, what happens after death, etc, and at the time they didn't have science to figure things out with- so they turned to stories. The better the story, the more it was remembered.

    People try to justify their religion by applying science to the Bible, but usually that ends up more laughable than religious explanations.