Roundtable Flame/Discussion about Beliefs

[trolman]

I agree with this entire paragraph.

Religion is honest in its intentions, but it will always be used as tool that inspires biggotry, racism, and war.

Always?I really doubt. But it can be used for wrong just like anything that you love.Like a heroin crazed druggie or a parent who's child has been kidnapped, something dear to you can make you do things you wouldnt normaly do. Now for the crusades, relegion was only used to motivate the troops (since regular armies werent created) to go and do their commander's bidding.How was a western european peasant supposed to go to the other edge of the world to fight and die for the king who forced free labor and tax on them?Fuck no they werent.But if they used something dear to the common soldier, ofcourse they could succed!And since Feudalisum was still green,people fell for it.Ofcourse those crusaders were so christian that on the fourth crusade they destroyed the "evil" orthodox-christian Byzantines they were sent to aid because they werent payed.Ah the horror...
And thats how relegion was used for wrong,ofcourse now theres the media and "patriotism" but in the end you still dance to their song, we never really left the feudal ages, today the 1% and the goverment still exploit us for their personal "pleasures"...

 

[Kwah]

It was the church that crucified Christ!The pope in his behavior he was a bigger atheist then dawkins and hitchkens combined in the sence of the rape he did.

What the fuck?

The Catholic church (and hence the Pope) did not exist pre-Christ, (The defining feature of this organization being a belief in Christ as God's son). So tell me: how the fuck did he crucify him?

we never really left the feudal ages, today the 1% and the goverment still exploit us for their personal "pleasures"...

I'm pretty sure we left the feudal ages.

Feudalism: a system for structuring society around relationships derived from the holding of land in exchange for service or labour.

Even ignoring the technical definition, to assert that the economic divide we see in today's society is remotely in the same scale as the one seen in the middle ages is absurd.

I won't argue that the States has a pretty fucked up government, and some serious issues with taxcode/representation/fighting stupid wars. But that can be discussed in the context of today's society without moronic comparisons to the middle ages as a form of argumentation.

 

[PurplePoot]

You know, it always amuses me to see religious fanatics who go on about how atheists can't have morals, all the while conveniently ignoring the morals that their religious book teaches them and failing to realize that they've come up with their system of morality nearly as independently of religion as any atheist.

 

[RiotZ]

You know, it always amuses me to see religious fanatics who go on about how atheists can't have morals, all the while conveniently ignoring the morals that their religious book teaches them and failing to realize that they've come up with their system of morality nearly as independently of religion as any atheist.

Hallelujah, couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[trolman]

You know, it always amuses me to see religious fanatics who go on about how atheists can't have morals, all the while conveniently ignoring the morals that their religious book teaches them and failing to realize that they've come up with their system of morality nearly as independently of religion as any atheist.

Its because of the society we live in today. But without the big books we'd still be eye for an eye. And everyone would do whatever their moral tells them = chaos.

The rest is just your pride and arrogance, you think you are soo great for doing what is naturaly built into us by claiming you figured it out yourself.
Look at Stalin and his own discovered morals ~ 50 milion dead just for about 50 years, did he ever realise he was doing wrong? No? Was he an Atheist? Yes? Does his moral seem right to him and his officers? Yes? And well thats why moral like that is pritty dangerous.

 

[fladdermasken]

But without the big books we'd still be eye for an eye.

Fucking yes. And without a steamer, all cabbage would have to be eaten raw.

Or, would we have come up with something else?

And everyone would do whatever their moral tells them = chaos.

I can feel the stench of your piss poor rhetoric etched to the very fabric of my mind.

Spoiler: You get worse.

No, it wouldn't, be chaos.

Probably because we all act within our moral code.
Probably because if we didn't, it wouldn't be our moral code.

And no, I don't mean the set of principles we find rational. I don't think rationality determines that. I mean the bits and pieces we pick up from different experiences and impressions. Should probably be more along the lines of emotions then.

Look at Stalin and his own discovered morals

Was he an Atheist? Yes

I'm sorry, what the bloody oath are you on about? I'm glad you tried to use your first fallacious paragraph as a segue to prompt that atheist are a bunch of amoral fuckers, I hope it goes a long way to pry the epiphany that your arguments aren't air-tight just because you can wage crusades against people interminably into that thick skull of yours.

Does his moral seem right to him and his officers? Yes? And well thats why moral like that is pritty dangerous.

Moral like what, something that seem right to you?

I don't know how much you know about morality, but as far as I know it's the distinction between the right and wrong intentions and decisions. Usually according to the set of morals you have. If his actions don't seem right to him, he's not acting within his moral code.

The rest is just your pride and arrogance, you think you are soo great for doing what is naturaly built into us by claiming you figured it out yourself.

Fucking ironic rebound.

Out of all crappy self-importance being secreted from this thread, a bulk load is emanating from you. Nothing has changed from when you had your ass kicked out the last time. You are still the thickest, most pus-secreting zit of the bunch, and I know that no matter how much we squeeze you with tweezers you won't pop.

Because you don't even think you're putting up a good case, you just think that if you continuously act like a fucking rash people will "cop out," eventually.

 

[RiotZ]

Its because of the society we live in today. But without the big books we'd still be eye for an eye. And everyone would do whatever their moral tells them = chaos.

The rest is just your pride and arrogance, you think you are soo great for doing what is naturaly built into us by claiming you figured it out yourself.
Look at Stalin and his own discovered morals ~ 50 milion dead just for about 50 years, did he ever realise he was doing wrong? No? Was he an Atheist? Yes? Does his moral seem right to him and his officers? Yes? And well thats why moral like that is pritty dangerous.

Abraham Lincoln was an atheist, don't believe me? Google it.

I'm an Atheist (somewhat) and I haven't murdered anyone yet, or pillaged any villages, killed any Muslims, burned any Witches. Hell, I haven't even gotten into a fight with someone over their religion yet. I masturbate excessively, but that makes me evil if I believe in Christianity right? But my Morals are fucked.

Bruce Lee atheist, Marlon Brando atheist, Sigmund Freud atheist, Thomas Edison atheist, Mark Twain, Edgar Allen Poe, and Richard Branson, did they kill anyone, did they not make contributions to society equal to those of a believer??

 

[trolman]

Oh dont act smart, before poeple started worshiping the big man, mankind was like that. So yeah everyone doing what they belive its right, why not play it safe and have the rules?

I'm giving stalin as an example at how we should use other sources for our own morality because it just might not turn right.Im shure theres plenty of people who managed to find whats right on their own but many more who didnt.

Yeah i wrote that he's an atheist for shits and gigles like some fundie site.


But about the last thing, like about 7/10 atheists i've seen were fucking arrogant assholes stupidly mocking what they dont understand (from the last post it seems you are one of those 7) and trough the internet grown a strong hatered for your kind, but here you just make it more obvious, you dont understand my veiwpoint in life and you hate me for my choices.And self importance?Really? You think you're right but you dont have a clue...

Xriotzx did i say atheists are naturaly born monsters? (altough some of the people you mentioned did have their flaus)

 

[RiotZ]

Oh dont act smart, before poeple started worshiping the big man, mankind was like that. So yeah everyone doing what they belive its right, why not play it safe and have the rules?

I'm giving stalin as an example at how we should use other sources for our own morality because it just might not turn right.Im shure theres plenty of people who managed to find whats right on their own but many more who didnt.

Yeah i wrote that he's an atheist for shits and gigles like some fundie site.


But about the last thing, like about 7/10 atheists i've seen were fucking arrogant assholes stupidly mocking what they dont understand (from the last post it seems you are one of those 7) and trough the internet grown a strong hatered for your kind, but here you just make it more obvious, you dont understand my veiwpoint in life and you hate me for my choices.And self importance?Really? You think you're right but you dont have a clue...

Everything you stand for is violence, deception and division, do not throw foul words at me you fool.

I understand the pitiful religion that is Christianity with a depth that you may not, I had to go through 2 years of Bible classes, I've seen how the teachers talk about atheism, evolution, some had even gone as far as to say that Sigmund Freud and Charles Darwin were idiots.

Your bible is dripping with blood, all the crimes committed in God's name, Christianity has spilled more blood than any other religion, far exceeding Islam. And for this, I do not believe, I despise. It is the religion of warmongers and bigots and I will not partake.

And "The Big man" very intelligent nickname for God. And how do you know what it was like predating Christ, are you a scholar?

 

[trolman]

Everything except the last sentance was for the other guy -.-

Everything you stand for is violence, deception and division, do not throw foul words at me you fool. -WUT?

Well see,thats the problem you were forced into it, the same way society tried forsing me into atheism (but that story another time).Where you at the Westo Baptist Church by the way?

I'd beg to defer,there are way more bloody religions out there but thats why they're not mainstream. And we already talked about the crimes in God's name last page.

Yeah you basicly admitted a very stupid thing there.Please educate yourself and gain some more wisodm.

Ofcourse I do,its in the old testemony and beyon but those times are much much more savage.

 

[Steel_Stallion]

Is it a coincidence that the people who type in proper grammar and spelling are the atheists, while the others are typing in bad grammar and have run on sentences galore? I should write of my findings and open a discussion on the internet.

12 pages of this shite, lol.

 

[trolman]

Well they are native speekers,im not -.-

 

[Boris_Spider]

Religious people have one Purpose, one that if they truly believe in they are willing to die a hundred deaths for. how does your purpose compare to that?

~The "One purpose" is this: Convert others who don't believe in said religion and destroy any who refuse to. My purpose doesn't require me to attempt to convert or massacre others...

The only reason atheists have morality is because of the sosicety we live in today is heavily based on the bible and its sequals.

Right now most of you "people" dont know that murder is legal... psst and its called abortion,like no one ever asks the baby if it wants to live...

~Wrong. Our morals are generated individually. Some people prefer to for themselves, why do so many of your kind struggle with that concept?

~See 1:50 to 2:05, 2:40 to 2:50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kCyqBKewr4

Look at Stalin and his own discovered morals ~ 50 milion dead just for about 50 years, did he ever realise he was doing wrong? No? Was he an Atheist? Yes? Does his moral seem right to him and his officers? Yes? And well thats why moral like that is pritty dangerous.

~Religion has killed billions over the few thousand years recorded history has been around. What Stalin did was wrong ...though you'll never understand why I took that position.

Oh dont act smart, before poeple started worshiping the big man, mankind was like that.

But about the last thing, like about 7/10 atheists i've seen were fucking arrogant assholes stupidly mocking what they dont understand...

Xriotzx did i say atheists are naturaly born monsters? (altough some of the people you mentioned did have their flaus)

~Which "Big Man" are you referring to? You religion is still a child compared to its predecessors.

~I can say the same thing of about 91/100 religious people I've dealt with. Though they didn't "stupidly mock" but rather brutally assaulted (verbally, I escaped before they resorted to their favorite past-time).

~They exist on both sides, although the religious ones are often considered saint-like.

//\\oo//\\

 

[trolman]

~The "One purpose" is this: Convert others who don't believe in said religion and destroy any who refuse to. My purpose doesn't require me to attempt to convert or massacre others...



~Wrong. Our morals are generated individually. Some people prefer to for themselves, why do so many of your kind struggle with that concept?

~See 1:50 to 2:05, 2:40 to 2:50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kCyqBKewr4



~Religion has killed billions over the few thousand years recorded history has been around. What Stalin did was wrong ...though you'll never understand why I took that position.




~Which "Big Man" are you referring to? You religion is still a child compared to its predecessors.

~I can say the same thing of about 91/100 religious people I've dealt with. Though they didn't "stupidly mock" but rather brutally assaulted (verbally, I escaped before they resorted to their favorite past-time).

~They exist on both sides, although the religious ones are often considered saint-like.

//\\oo//\\

~so salvation and hell are wrong and a person shouldnt strive to be good?
~exactly they are generated by our enviorment,aka what would stop mass murder happening in a society thats based around it?
~Last page i explained how person A always needs something to hate person B over for and also how killing for God is doing the opposite of what he wants
~Too many religions and just one God.Its just a difrent viewpoint.
~Go to youtube or 4chan or whatever its way easier to find,you just saw one a few posts ago.
~Yes but instead of sticking to their level you should be better

 

[Boris_Spider]

~so salvation and hell are wrong and a person shouldnt strive to be good?
~exactly they are generated by our enviorment,aka what would stop mass murder happening in a society thats based around it?
~Last page i explained how person A always needs something to hate person B over for and also how killing for God is doing the opposite of what he wants
~Too many religions and just one God.Its just a difrent viewpoint.
~Go to youtube or 4chan or whatever its way easier to find,you just saw one a few posts ago.
~Yes but instead of sticking to their level you should be better

~"Salvation" and "hell" are one in the same. Good is relative to the individual in question, even religion hasn't been able to eliminate that. Instead it aims it at those who give the wrong answer to the god-question.

~Nothing. All religions are based around mass murder. The ones that aren't were quickly eliminated/brutally suppressed by those that are.
So it's okay only if its done in the name of a god? - and you consider yourself to be of higher morals...

~Correct. Believers unite to hate/kill/belittle/haze/mutilate/suppress/dehumanize non-believers. Gods are the leading cause of death on this planet.

~... Again, which god are you referring to? Most religions have many gods, others only have one.

~What are you trying to say???

~I don't go around killing people who disagree with me nor do I attempt to make everyone think like me. I value diversity. Religion does not.

//\\oo//\\

 

[trolman]

~"Salvation" and "hell" are one in the same. Good is relative to the individual in question, even religion hasn't been able to eliminate that. Instead it aims it at those who give the wrong answer to the god-question.

~Nothing. All religions are based around mass murder. The ones that aren't were quickly eliminated/brutally suppressed by those that are.
So it's okay only if its done in the name of a god? - and you consider yourself to be of higher morals...

~Correct. Believers unite to hate/kill/belittle/haze/mutilate/suppress/dehumanize non-believers. Gods are the leading cause of death on this planet.

~... Again, which god are you referring to? Most religions have many gods, others only have one.

~What are you trying to say???

~I don't go around killing people who disagree with me nor do I attempt to make everyone think like me. I value diversity. Religion does not.

//\\oo//\\

~It revolves around accepting and dealing with your sins knowing they are forgiven.

~Based around mass murder?WHAT?I was speaking hypothericly (or however its spelled) Also I condemed how its wrong to Kill in God's name and the people who do it are powerless pawns in the hands of those who do not care about God.

~Just no,you cant be that stupid.

~The one and only,the grand force of the universe theres only one (the poly gods still count as one force) but i prefer the christian orthodox version the most.

~You met the wrong people,go to a church as an atheist and see how they react,go to youtube and to the same as a theist, but im also referring to how fladdermasken used his childlike tactics to insult me.

~Maybe if you learned about religion yourself you'd know.But why have bad and good people,why not have good people only?Thats what Jesus teaches us, love your enemy N stuff. Cant we all be like that?

 

[Boris_Spider]

~It revolves around accepting and dealing with your sins knowing they are forgiven.

~Based around mass murder?WHAT?I was speaking hypothericly (or however its spelled) Also I condemed how its wrong to Kill in God's name and the people who do it are powerless pawns in the hands of those who do not care about God.

~Just no,you cant be that stupid.

~The one and only,the grand force of the universe theres only one (the poly gods still count as one force) but i prefer the christian orthodox version the most.

~You met the wrong people,go to a church as an atheist and see how they react,go to youtube and to the same as a theist, but im also referring to how fladdermasken used his childlike tactics to insult me.

~Maybe if you learned about religion yourself you'd know.But why have bad and good people,why not have good people only?Thats what Jesus teaches us, love your enemy N stuff. Cant we all be like that?

~I've never been one to take the easy way out.

~I'm glad YOU condemn these types of actions. However, you aren't the only person with religion or in your religion. Unfortunately, you'll be "guilty" by affiliation.

~I admit, I exaggerated a little. I do know a few religious people that would never stand for those types of actions. However, believers proudly shun non-believers. Some are more obvious than others.

~Hmmm. Interesting, I haven't heard of the "poly-gods" counting as one.

~I spend most of my time in public avoiding religious people. Why should I hop out of the frying pan and into the fire? I'd rather not be burned at the stake...

~We can get along as long as one side DOESN'T try to impose its values on the other. Non-believers generally just want to do their thing, athough there are those who wrongly impose themselves on others.

//\\oo//\\

 

[fladdermasken]

But about the last thing, like about 7/10 atheists i've seen were fucking arrogant assholes stupidly mocking what they dont understand (from the last post it seems you are one of those 7) and trough the internet grown a strong hatered for your kind, but here you just make it more obvious

Do I? Because if you try to read my post and dissect every single clause, there's really nothing in there that flips off or backbites Christianity. Which is fucking excellent, because that's all the bricks I need to bridge this paragraph to the next:

you dont understand my veiwpoint in life and you hate me for my choices.

The only thing I fucking loathe is your line of reasoning. You clearly have the gall to condemn people left, right and center, so the hell else would you expect in response? And I know you're probably going to try and take a piss and retort "It's cause I'm religious uUWwWaAaaAhHhHhh~~~," but no, this has fucking nothing to do with Christianity.

You're out of focus; it's you I have a problem with.

And before I move on:

Oh dont act smart,

I don't need to, you're handing me all my fucking lines on a silver platter.

---

before poeple started worshiping the big man, mankind was like that.

I wasn't arguing anything that implicit. I was just flipping off the notion that changing one particular chunk of history where a paradigm shifted would imply that everything is bound to be fucking stuck in mud over the next few thousand years.

Because I don't trust you or anyone else to gauge the implications of a game-changing event accurately.

So yeah everyone doing what they belive its right, why not play it safe and have the rules?

Because everyone is playing by their own, and adhering to all of them will have you tippy-toe around contradictions and serious breaches of conduct even in the simplest of activities.

I'm giving stalin as an example at how we should use other sources for our own morality because it just might not turn right.

Let me stop you right there because this clause is short-circuited and a half.

You employ your morals and ethics to determine right. Your set of morals is a self-evident module. Anything contained within it that applies to your own rules is right. It might (and probably will) not apply to other people, global and universal interests. But there's no way your principles will backlash in their own perimeters.

There's also an important distinction in "which action you take," and "what you gauge to be the right action." If you can take a clause like "do unto others as you would have them do unto you," and prompt oppression and mass-murders, I'm sure as hell not going to hold the principle liable, only the people that employ it to different means.

As for other sources, one of my favorite philosophies is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. Other sources is great as to reduce bias, but if I know humans we tend to let the sources that don't comply to our epiphanies fall through the cracks.

Im shure theres plenty of people who managed to find whats right on their own but many more who didnt.

I'm sure there are plenty of people with differing opinions on right and wrong.

 

[Boris_Spider]

~You met the wrong people,go to a church as an atheist and see how they react...

You do realize I can't take your suggestion seriously? The quote under your name states: "Enemy of the Godless"
Walk into a church... I'd be safer if I stepped on a land mine.

As for other sources, one of my favorite philosophies is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you...

Interesting. Out of curiosity, how did you come across this philosophy? In my experience people agree with you if they believe what you're doing is in their interests. I realize I just stated the same thing you did, but I haven't come across the phrasing you used.

//\\0o//\\

 

[PurplePoot]

Its because of the society we live in today. But without the big books we'd still be eye for an eye. And everyone would do whatever their moral tells them = chaos.

The rest is just your pride and arrogance, you think you are soo great for doing what is naturaly built into us by claiming you figured it out yourself.
Look at Stalin and his own discovered morals ~ 50 milion dead just for about 50 years, did he ever realise he was doing wrong? No? Was he an Atheist? Yes? Does his moral seem right to him and his officers? Yes? And well thats why moral like that is pritty dangerous.

Yes, Stalin was a nutbar. Stalin was also an atheist. Stalin also had a moustache. I think we need to have a talk to moustached people about their morality issues.

I don't know why I'm even bothering to try to talk to you since it's clear you only read (and addressed) the parts of my post you were comfortable addressing, but what you don't seem to understand is that the Bible (I assume you're Christian) offers all sorts of codes of conduct that you may or may not find logical, and I highly doubt you follow all of them.

-Don't murder people (you probably follow this one)
-Execute gays (I doubt you follow this one, though you may feel they deserve it)
-Don't wear clothes made of multiple fabrics (I doubt you follow this one)
-Don't eat shellfish, they're an abomination (perhaps you don't like shellfish, but I doubt that you follow this one or, if you do follow it, follow it intentionally)

I'm giving stalin as an example at how we should use other sources for our own morality because it just might not turn right.Im shure theres plenty of people who managed to find whats right on their own but many more who didnt.

And there are plenty of religious people who have the same issue. Since we're escalating to mass murderers immediately (which is a terrible argumentation tactic, but I'll bite), take Hitler as an example.

Yeah i wrote that he's an atheist for shits and gigles like some fundie site.

http://i.imgur.com/utxez.jpg

But about the last thing, like about 7/10 atheists i've seen were fucking arrogant assholes stupidly mocking what they dont understand (from the last post it seems you are one of those 7) and trough the internet grown a strong hatered for your kind, but here you just make it more obvious, you dont understand my veiwpoint in life and you hate me for my choices.And self importance?Really? You think you're right but you dont have a clue...

I think if you replaced "7/10 atheists" with "7/10 people" you may have a stronger point. You probably have to deal with atheists mocking you moreso than Christians mocking you because, well, you're Christian. You are not an unbiased observer.

 

[trolman]

Alot of posts to reply to! Now everyone follow their ~ and we should be safe...

~You also have to proove by action that you've changed,not just words.
~Im innocent.
~I admit im not exactly what you'd expect of a Christian,im also abit of dirty harry.
~They are the same team.
~Because we live in the 15th century.
~more hate?
~A personal offence at me.
~yes i know
~minimum
~so you're saying that discovering religion left mandkind in mud?
~still its best to have a guidline
~the thrill of just the chase is worth the pain
~And you have a spider,we're all free
~Purple plot please know the difrance between the Old Testemony and the New Testemony, I only follow the second.
~Hitler was some wierd mystic peganist.
~lolz
~Well i do have an observation that many people are stupid...


Well this was fast,now to go to school.Each ~ is an awnser to a quoted sentance of mine.

 

[PurplePoot]

~Purple plot please know the difrance between the Old Testemony and the New Testemony, I only follow the second.

A common reply, and one that misses some key points.

• The morals you say are good also come from the old testament.
  
• Many of the morals that are considered societally wrong come from the new testament; rampant misogyny, homophobia etc.
  
• Jesus says that the old testament is not to be disregarded, refuting the common argument that "those laws just don't apply any more" or "the old testament is not relevant" etc.

~Hitler was some wierd mystic peganist.

I guess he only pretended to be a christian to inspire his troops, because no true christian would do what he did?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

What about those that think they are the Messiah and killed some members of their families, then (in some cases) killed themselves after that. Where is the moral, or religious people can't go nuts? They are blessed? No they are not. Why are there paedos at the Vatican? Why are some protestant pastors also have done crazy things?

Why don't you explain to the millions of people who lost their close family members due to disasters, murders and such, where is God, did they deserve it? Or is it all part of the 'sacrifice in the name of God' even though they did not want it?

Teaching people not to kill, to be good - this is a way to grow up spiritually but not in the way you make it look - brainwashed by the damn Church then all who are not are some sort of 'unspiritual'.

Because of such religion needs to be erradicated, globally, all religions. Fanatics need to be reprogrammed or disposed of, if there is no other way for them. Can't wait for the day your actual 'gods' come. Then the entire system will collapse.

 

[trolman]

~Yes but if it its a contradiction between old and new, new one is applied,im not very sure how the new testemony cant be applied to women?BTW the old testemony is for people of jewish heretige,we pegans only have to listen to Christ.
~If he shows no religios afflication,he wont get popylar with the aitheists nor the jews.Most of germans were christians so obviously he had to act like one but the whole anti-semisum thing, to think it comes from the bible, well yeah he wasnt a real christian.

~Everyone can go nuts,some are marked inborn others are changed by events,religios or not. And yes some priests are pedos but Christ said (not an exact quote) "The fate of someone who leads a child into temptatoin (aka rape because they wouldnt be big belivers after that) is worse than to be thrown in a lake with a watermill stone tied to his neck"

~And i heard of a story of a man who was so good, preached about how others should love and be good but himself got a painfull death on a stick.

~I repeat again from the 11th page, It was the Church that crucified Christ.

No... just like boris spider you too dont know about religion. Also fanatics come in all shapes and sizes not just religion.And yes the day Christ returns many of the people in church (the insteitution), he will not take.

 

[RiotZ]

~Because we live in the 15th century.

Say what nigga?!

Also Old Testament / New Testament, doesn't that show there is something deeply wrong with religion, when the manifesto itself is disputed and rearranged by the very people who follow it?

Back to PurplePoot's point, so... Trolman, have you ever had extra-marital sex? Do you masturbate? Do you use stimulants (Cigarettes, Coffee)? I assume you have done all of this, so are you still righteous?

 

[fladdermasken]

Fanatics need to be reprogrammed or disposed of <snip>

I know you added "if there's no other way," but fuck, this would be irony at its most bittersweet flavoring.

 

[RiotZ]

I know you added "if there's no other way," but fuck, this would be irony at its most bittersweet flavoring.

Wish I could rep you for this post...

 

[PurplePoot]

~Yes but if it its a contradiction between old and new, new one is applied,im not very sure how the new testemony cant be applied to women?BTW the old testemony is for people of jewish heretige,we pegans only have to listen to Christ.

And yet most of the stuff in the Old Testament is not contradicted in the New Testament. So the question remains; do you wear clothes of multiple fabrics or eat shellfish?

Also, the Old Testament is for Jewish or Christian people. This whole revisionist "new testament only" crap only came around when Christians came under fire from non-Christians about their religion not being nearly as peaceful or loving as they'd like people to believe.

In addition to the passage I already linked from the NT, there are other fun ones.

Misogyny

Homophobia (Romans 1:26 is where it explicitly starts, but I left the entire passage for context)

You don't seem to have read your own holy book.

In fact, it's probably easier to just give you one of my favourite links on the subject. Pick a book (old or new testament) and start reading. You might find some interesting stuff.

~If he shows no religios afflication,he wont get popylar with the aitheists nor the jews.Most of germans were christians so obviously he had to act like one but the whole anti-semisum thing, to think it comes from the bible, well yeah he wasnt a real christian.

See, this is why I didn't want to raise it in the first place, but oh well. If someone acts in every way like something, how can you credibly argue that they aren't that thing? It's just creative footwork to try to be able to blame other groups for atrocities but not your own.

I might as well say Stalin just pretended to be an atheist to appeal to some people, but was actually secretly Christian.

 

[trolman]

~Like humans we always tend to remember the bad side of things.
~Righteous? I never said such things.
~Im still not a fan of the old one.
~Here I'll reply personaly to both the acclaims of disrespect for women and fags.Personaly i dont belive the genders are equall (pritty obvious,and come on 2 lines?Why not focus on loving your enemies instead?) nor do i support gay marrage but dont confuse it with oppose.Personaly these things were always in me even before i knew about Jesus.The society i grew up in was anti-christian and anti-gay.

Infact the chirstian in me tells me to treat everyone equall and love me but the evil in me strugles.Hopefuly one day I will completely change.
~Phah these sites are such pornography, the bible can be understood in many ways and they always twist the holy words into blasphemy,you are really tainted.

BTW Yesterday i finished reading the Gospels now i have the other part,so no i havent read it fully yet.

~By his actions ofcourse,and hating jews but loving their king is again as i say very silly.

 

[PurplePoot]

~Phah these sites are such pornography, the bible can be understood in many ways and they always twist the holy words into blasphemy,you are really tainted.

You do an excellent job of exemplifying brainwashing for anyone who hasn't yet seen it firsthand; smoothly deflecting criticism without actually addressing it or even acknowledging it as an automatic defence mechanism to protect yourself from opposing viewpoints.

You've essentially come up with a premise (the Bible is the word of god and is therefore good and true), use that premise to argue that religion must be good and true, and justify the premise circularly by saying anything which indicates the Bible is not the word of god and therefore good and true must be wrong because it would make the Bible not the word of god and therefore not good and true (or the word of an evil god or something, take your pick).

 

[RiotZ]

You do an excellent job of exemplifying brainwashing for anyone who hasn't yet seen it firsthand; smoothly deflecting criticism without actually addressing it or even acknowledging it as an automatic defence mechanism to protect yourself from opposing viewpoints.

You've essentially come up with a premise (the Bible is the word of god and is therefore good and true), use that premise to argue that religion must be good and true, and justify the premise circularly by saying anything which indicates the Bible is not the word of god and therefore good and true must be wrong because it would make the Bible not the word of god and therefore not good and true (or the word of an evil god or something, take your pick).

This is the rationale of the God-fearing Christian, there is no changing it. There is no arguing it, they will continue to blindly follow their prophets, even if it leads to their demise. They refuse to question their existence and the existence of everything around them, but fail to realize their religion is younger than most, and started out as a simple cult.

~Like humans we always tend to remember the bad side of things.
~Righteous? I never said such things.
~Im still not a fan of the old one.
~Here I'll reply personaly to both the acclaims of disrespect for women and fags.Personaly i dont belive the genders are equall (pritty obvious,and come on 2 lines?Why not focus on loving your enemies instead?) nor do i support gay marrage but dont confuse it with oppose.Personaly these things were always in me even before i knew about Jesus.The society i grew up in was anti-christian and anti-gay.




Infact the chirstian in me tells me to treat everyone equall and love me but the evil in me strugles.Hopefuly one day I will completely change.
~Phah these sites are such pornography, the bible can be understood in many ways and they always twist the holy words into blasphemy,you are really tainted.




BTW Yesterday i finished reading the Gospels now i have the other part,so no i havent read it fully yet.




~By his actions ofcourse,and hating jews but loving their king is again as i say very silly.

There are no 72 virgins Trolman, just as there is no shiny city erected in the sky, we've been to the moon, there's nothing up there but empty space.

God is just a superior being, misrepresented by his followers as immortal, and all-powerful.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

I know you added "if there's no other way," but fuck, this would be irony at its most bittersweet flavoring.

I meant religious ones in case you implied I am one, I am neither type of a fanatic, I am a realist. Now, don't feel bad we are all hyporcrites deeply inside, trying to look good and sound normal, obeying the general public opinion in a public place or forum while knowing that the best way to control and 'clean' is exterminate certain kinds. The truth hurts, they say. Not everyone has the balls to say things directly, I am kind of a whiseblower type, whatever I know I prefer to share it, screw secrecy and 'not for the public'.

 

[Boris_Spider]

No... just like boris spider you too dont know about religion...

By that you mean YOUR religion. Just because you don't acknowledge the lack of distinction between religions doesn't mean it isn't there. Since your kind (don't take this personally...) loves to make that argument in reference to your god, I'm sure you can understand my point.

I meant religious ones in case you implied I am one, I am neither type of a fanatic, I am a realist. Now, don't feel bad we are all hyporcrites deeply inside, trying to look good and sound normal, obeying the general public opinion in a public place or forum while knowing that the best way to control and 'clean' is exterminate certain kinds. The truth hurts, they say. Not everyone has the balls to say things directly, I am kind of a whiseblower type, whatever I know I prefer to share it, screw secrecy and 'not for the public'.

That only because those "kinds" are viewed as a threat. Religion controls/cleans non-believers because our existence is a threat to it. We demonstrate a different way of doing things. Ironically, religion needs non-believers. Without us it has no way of uniting its followers. People get bored of their gods eventually, so they create new ones. It's Economics 101.

@trolman: Please at least identify which user your responding to. I can't track your replies across both pages easily; I am lazy by nature. Some of your responses could apply to anyone.

//\\oo//\\

 

[mckill2009]

The Bible is a book or a collection of books, even a collection of comics can be called a bible, the word of God is Christ
and ofc it's written in the Bible (book), coz we cannot talk to God face to face, therefore he sends his messengers
to write his words in a book, just like moses and paul...

Religion on the other hand is not the church or the organization but 'your belief or faith' or practice of faith,
so you believe that there is no God, that's your religion...

I believe that there's a supernatural being that made everything here including life, and that is God...
that is my belief and everybody should respect that just as I respect that you dont believe in God...

 

[trolman]

~it never becomes your faith untill you question and accept it, there is no way. I know there might be somethings to criticize but whenever I see one my mind always finds a solution because those places are a waste of time for me,and death of the soul for others.No one ever brought this on me,i became a christian by myself,and i know that God could pritty much do all sorts of bad things for me because well you know, he's God, but I havent done anything to earn it and if I did, i'd be ready for my punishment.

~I always tought it was like a difrent dimention or somewhere in space.But im not really sure if we ever landed on the moon.

~Then learn about it before you criticize.
~And yes we kill nonbelivers as a sport so we dont get bored and think of a new god. *facepalm&

 

[RiotZ]

The Bible is a book or a collection of books, even a collection of comics can be called a bible, the word of God is Christ
and ofc it's written in the Bible (book), coz we cannot talk to God face to face, therefore he sends his messengers
to write his words in a book, just like moses and paul...

Religion on the other hand is not the church or the organization but 'your belief or faith' or practice of faith,
so you believe that there is no God, that's your religion...

I believe that there's a supernatural being that made everything here including life, and that is God...
that is my belief and everybody should respect that just as I respect that you dont believe in God...

I don't believe in anything really, I am not opposed to the possibility that a group of individuals more advanced than ourselves brought this galaxy into being, and then again, I'm not opposed to the idea that things evolve naturally as can be seen in the everyday household.

 

[PurplePoot]

~it never becomes your faith untill you question and accept it, there is no way. I know there might be somethings to criticize but whenever I see one my mind always finds a solution because those places are a waste of time for me,and death of the soul for others.No one ever brought this on me,i became a christian by myself,and i know that God could pritty much do all sorts of bad things for me because well you know, he's God, but I havent done anything to earn it and if I did, i'd be ready for my punishment.

It must be disturbing to live in perpetual Stockholm Syndrome with your "good" god.

 

[trolman]

You'd wish but I know why I do it and its not stockholm syndrome. But its not like you'll ever understand trully,your soul is lost.

 

[Boris_Spider]

~it never becomes your faith untill you question and accept it, there is no way. I know there might be somethings to criticize but whenever I see one my mind always finds a solution because those places are a waste of time for me,and death of the soul for others.No one ever brought this on me,i became a christian by myself,and i know that God could pritty much do all sorts of bad things for me because well you know, he's God, but I havent done anything to earn it and if I did, i'd be ready for my punishment.

~And yes we kill nonbelivers as a sport so we dont get bored and think of a new god. *facepalm&

~... you can't have faith in something you question. It's more realistic to divide by zero. Believers told me that one.

~Fail on you. Also, you guys don't kill until you're done playing (torturing) [you call it "cleansing of the soul"] the poor bastard you caught.

You'd wish but I know why I do it and its not stockholm syndrome. But its not like you'll ever understand trully,your soul is lost.

~Cop-out.

By the way, if you thought you could convert me, I'd like to apologize for not stating clearer/sooner that that will never happen. Sorry, this sheep can count for itself.

Edit: I'm not trying to "de-convert" you either. I have no need/desire to. Everyone has the right to delude themselves (this covers FAR more than religion, by the way).

//\\oo//\\

 

[trolman]

~The seirous questions always get awnsered.
~yes we kill people for our entertainment
~What he said was way to supid to be given a proper awnser.
~Nah you're one of those people who fear and hate what they cant understand and dont belive what they dont see

 

[PurplePoot]

~What he said was way to supid to be given a proper awnser.

Too stupid? Care to explain how you don't fit the definition?

~Nah you're one of those people who fear and hate what they cant understand and dont belive what they dont see

How is someone not believing what they can't see an insult? That's pretty much the basis for, well, being able to know anything about our universe.

 

[RiotZ]

Too stupid? Care to explain how you don't fit the definition?

How is someone not believing what they can't see an insult? That's pretty much the basis for, well, being able to know anything about our universe.

@Trolman/PurplePoot: No, I like the other part, about fearing what you don't understand, isn't that the premise of religion? Lack of understanding is replaced with false confidence in something that you only perceive to exist. Or is it just bigotry against Gays and Muslims/Buddhists/Hindus.

 

[PurplePoot]

@Trolman/PurplePoot: No, I like the other part, about fearing what you don't understand, isn't that the premise of religion? Lack of understanding is replaced with false confidence in something that you only perceive to exist. Or is it just bigotry against Gays and Muslims/Buddhists/Hindus.

I was operating under the assumption that "fear and hate what you don't understand" referred specifically to his god, not knowledge in general. Given that assumption, which I think is a fair one, it's safe to not bother contesting that as it's a meaningless ad hominem.

 

[RiotZ]

I was operating under the assumption that "fear and hate what you don't understand" referred specifically to his god, not knowledge in general. Given that assumption, which I think is a fair one, it's safe to not bother contesting that as it's a meaningless ad hominem.

I don't think you followed the point. He says people will always fear what they don't understand, and that is the basis of religion.

If you don't understand why it has happened, it must have happened because god willed it to, but if you do not believe, then you will not understand why it happened, therefore your lack of understanding will force you to search for an answer to relinquish fear, said answer is religion.

 

[Steel_Stallion]

religion filling the void of ignorance is what's going to prevent us from moving forward

 

[fladdermasken]

to supid to be given a proper awnser.

one of those people who fear and hate what they cant understand and dont belive what they dont see

you'll never understand trully,your soul is lost.

kill nonbelivers as a sport so we dont get bored and think of a new god.

meaningless ad hominem.

religion filling the void of ignorance

I give to you, the next few pages of this thread.

 

[RiotZ]

I give to you, the next few pages of this thread.

How clever.

 

[fladdermasken]

How clever.

Not really, but whatever we put in now will be brushed aside by the same responses we can find a couple of pages back. I don't have that much wit to spare, and I won't dole any out for someone with a broken I/O layout.

 

[trolman]

~Its becasue every question i had was in time solved,infact when I do my piety doubles but so does my sorrow for the lost.Basicly this part of the talk is about personal faith (I belive im doing right and you belive im wasting my time doing those things) and neither side can win (its just like explaining why Beiber sucks to a bunch of horny teenage girls).

~No actually those are signs of close-mindedness, i've never seen an atom but im pritty sure they excist (no this is not turing into a science debate,im just giving a simple example) and those books that talk about em arent lying. But you xRiotZx have shown yours, you with your own words:

"I understand the pitiful religion that is Christianity with a depth that you may not, I had to go through 2 years of Bible classes, I've seen how the teachers talk about atheism, evolution, some had even gone as far as to say that Sigmund Freud and Charles Darwin were idiots.

Your bible is dripping with blood, all the crimes committed in God's name, Christianity has spilled more blood than any other religion, far exceeding Islam. And for this, I do not believe, I despise. It is the religion of warmongers and bigots and I will not partake."
(from page 12) Here you explain how your vision got twisted and you think we're all like that, and its so easy to see that you hate it not for what it is but because you "had to" and in the seccond part you condem us all for the crimes against god by people who are supposed to represent him.Then you insult it a bunch of times by calling it pittiful (are you superior?) dripping with blood (because murder is why Jesus is so famous) then we have some bullshit fake facts "Christianity has spilled more blood than any other religion" and also insult Islam for which you probably dont know much.

And well pritty much you've prooved how you hate chrisitanity because you dont understand and will instead chose "not partake" because of some people used it as a platform for greed and power (popes and kings) and that you despise it. So yeah you put the bag on your head for what you see right disping the misunderstood awnsers for work of warmongers and bigouts.Dont take this as an insult but rather as a time to change.

Now look at me, no one ever made me do it,upon maturing i discovered it and the seed of fate started to grow on its own and with the help of my logic and knowlage, all the "opsticles" were defeated with banners flying high.I know there were crusades and stuff but they happened long ago and were never anything Christianity truly stands for.Yes I have my moments of doubt but as doubt itself is, never there for long. And I aint a perfect christian but I try to stick to the words of Chirst and do what "He would have done".

~Steel stalion press the ` button of life and type in sv_brain 1

~And yes fladdermasken this is a stuck pingpong ball,but while it is stuck in that magic triangle it also gains an incredable ammount of points...Ok that last sentance meant nothing...

 

[RiotZ]

Not really, but whatever we put in now will be brushed aside by the same responses we can find a couple of pages back. I don't have that much wit to spare, and I won't dole any out for someone with a broken I/O layout.

Well, I undoubtedly agree with that.