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Patch 1.30.2 PTR Update

Discussion in 'Latest Updates and News' started by TriggerHappy, Sep 27, 2018.

  1. DracoL1ch

    DracoL1ch

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    no, its not sc2 system either. It's removing one already existing and working option and POSSIBLE introduce another one LATER, but not now.
     
  2. pick-a-chew

    pick-a-chew

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    Nothing wrong with progressive changes. In fact it is entirely unreasonable to expect Blizzard to magically replace user bots with a brand spanking new hosting system that replicates all bot functionality within 1 patch. It has already been shown from 1.29 and 1.30 that the Warcraft 3 community doesn't care about giving feedback on the PTR, so it is wise on their part to work towards their goal of bot replacement patch by patch.
     
  3. DracoL1ch

    DracoL1ch

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    Are you working on microsoft? Because thats how they've killed skype recently.
    And no, blizzard will never replace ghost bots functionality, simply because each map is unique. Some needs votekick, some don't. Some needs these stats, some need other stats to be tracked. Some have to have leaver-punishment, some don't. You can't see things right before your nose and yet claim something big like that. History knows no case when universal solution become good for audience, whenever audience had a chance to chose - it chose more appropritte one, not official one.
     
  4. Death Adder

    Death Adder

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    Right, but then why did they have to remove bots before they had the replacement ready? I think that's the key point.

    Even if you're against bots (I'm not entierly sure what to think about it to be honest), removing bots and then MAYBE get a proper replacement at some unknown time in the future isn't a good thing for anyone...


    They didn't need to remove bots to allow players to host games without port forwarding, they could've done improvements over time and then remove bots at a later time when there was a replacement in place already.

    Several maps just won't even be possible to play at all because of ping etc.



    With that said, since it's on the PTR, I guess it doesn't necessarily mean that it will be on live for sure? After doing some testing or whatever on the PTR and they feel like it would be too soon to remove bots then maybe they would wait? I'm not sure how the PTR to live thing works.


    Either way, another huge deal here is the 0 communication. Nobody knows what or why they're doing whatever they're doing, or what the next step is either for that matter.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2018
  5. DracoL1ch

    DracoL1ch

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    they'd rather push untested build into production rather than rollback some of changes on their own, dont you recall their patches before? Thats being written in the stone now. And they're sure they are on the right side.
     
  6. pick-a-chew

    pick-a-chew

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    Communities that have stat tracking are the only victims of this patch. It sucks, yes, but it's a small part of the community worth sacrificing. I came back to Warcraft 3 over a year ago and haven't even seen these mythical stat tracking bots, presumably because they belong to tiny groups of people who play the same map over and over again. It's totally worth sacrificing that to allow all players and all mapmakers to host with ease.
     
  7. Jouven

    Jouven

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    It has already been shown from 1.30 that Blizzard doesn't care about Warcraft 3 to the point of leaving it in an unplayable state <-- FTFY, nice guilt trip you could try working in PR

    I've seen this pattern a lot in this thread, users doing ass-pulling, they need to explain/invent Blizzard motivations, how they work, their plans... when they probably know nothing about, it's a bit painful to witness

    Nice straw man, bot = "stat tracking", I wonder what will be next
     
  8. DracoL1ch

    DracoL1ch

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    I'd rather sacrifice your account, so what? Like, permaban you because you arent any good member of community either, so it definitly worth the sacrifice just for sake of nothing. So what?
    Its all up to blizz. And they are blind.
     
  9. pick-a-chew

    pick-a-chew

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    Ah yes, Blizzard, small indie company that doesn't know what it's doing, so we make things up to understand. Nice meme. It's definitely a bunch of monkeys in an office that have no clue at all what Warcraft 3 even is. They definitely haven't expanded their classics team (many of the new members which aren't embedded in several Warcraft 3 bot communities). Yup. Totally out of touch. I also had to be a genius to do this ass-pulling as well as spend 30 hours rereading the patch notes to understand the intentions.

    Just goes to show how obscure the only valid argument for bots is. I may yet enjoy it when a bunch of close-knit groups go through their death throes as they realize they wont be able to track if they're the best player for some no-name map they play religiously on an hourly basis.
     
  10. DracoL1ch

    DracoL1ch

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    half-assed sarcasm + inability to create competitive maps => blizzard fan. Totally fits.
     
  11. Jouven

    Jouven

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    Another straw man, you haven't addressed if you know or not what Blizzard is going to do, don't forget to bring proof/facts
    Another straw man, stat tracking="the only argument for bots"
    + inability to address arguments
     
  12. disruptive_

    disruptive_

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    I also want to take part on this cheap psychology fiesta:
    In general, i'm pretty sure Blizzard don't care too much about your complains people. Atleast right now.
    They want to regain much needed control on this "not-so-dead" game and its modding scene. They kind of neglected it for a decade as of now. Control first. Then we make people happy and listen them more carefully. Their way of course, but this is obvious.

    I doubt this is a "blind" or "clueless". This is strictly a rational approach. Maybe too rational. Maybe blind on regards of the interests of the community, but what if we start describing this "community" first and their interests? You don't even know what you want or to expect. "No limits" is too vague. Maybe a singular person knows what he/she wants, but not an entire community. In the end you all want to cope with your ΔFosB problem, and everything can do the trick.
    Another approach would be suing/bluffing people/third parties, but that is very costly (and almost impossible), so what about killing the third parties with the game engine itself. Easy life.

    About the wc3 modding scene: they merged the World Editor with vJass (remember the poll? it was a very informal way to decide something very important for people that do codding), they contacted and hired the author of WEX, updates are now kind of mandatory. Now you got this.
    They are brushing off any third party, inflirtrators, and any possibility of lost control. It doesn't matter if such services were good, bad, w/e, or if a version is good/bad/buggy. Control first (1.30 update), happines second (bug fixing, after 2 subsecquent PTR and new versions).

    Just as they did with Netease China (search that), there is a chance that they will confer licenses of different nature to, at this point, "official" third parties to do some outsourcing on the new issues they will have to deal with. What's the difference? Blizzard can now get a bite.

    I think the next step would be increasing the value out of their WC3 license, because it can surely improve (WoW also works, but i'm expecting a more direct and agressive approach, on competitive WC3, a youtube page, streaming, and doing something value producing out of the custom maps like on Starcraft II) so there would a lot of companies that would want to make deals with them.
    I know they've contacted (several months previous their entire 2018 update "campaign") and now have a very romantic relation with the HIVE. The HIVE should be understanded as a non-lucrative distributor of mostly Blizzard content.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2018
  13. Death Adder

    Death Adder

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    I don't really play any custom maps with stat tracking, but isn't there a lot of dota games with stats?... You know it's only the most played warcraft 3 map on any server...

    But I guess a lot or maybe most of those dota games are being played on some other servers than bnet. I'm not entierly sure since I don't play wc3 dota. So it's probably a small minority of the players who have legit copies of the game.

    Which honestly might be another reason for this change. Without the bots you won't be able to play with players from those other servers through bnet. But I do wonder, maybe it would even have a reverse effect? Considering that there's already more players on those other servers (at least in russia, china, and SEA, not sure about EU or NA.), one might even have to jump onto eurobattle or something to play whatever game you want instead of logging on your bnet acc.


    And that brings up another issue, how is blizzard actually planning to monetize wc3? (Assuming they do plan to.) Only thing I can think of is to make some HD/remaster version like with SC1.

    Honestly I would be very skeptical about blizzards intentions if it weren't for that the classic team has been trying to improve the world editor and work with the community to some extent. (Although it has been very silent recently...)
     
  14. NVS

    NVS

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    If you think this is a bots versus no bots issue, you're sorely mistaken. The fact of the matter is that the bots filled a void in regards to features that self-hosting lacks. Yes, you may not see a need for such features. Yes, you may never utilize such features yourself. But many, many players do and have over the years. The rise of Defense of the Ancients would probably not have been possible without the improved feature set provided by the bots that allowed competition to foster and grow.

    Now, bots do bring negatives. They flood the games list, some more so than others (as is made quite obvious by intentionally designed/configured offenders mentioned in previous posts in this thread). To some, the fact that a community can moderate itself is a hindrance; to others, a boon. It all depends if one considers the use of such features as an abuse or not. Personally, I feel an organization such as ENT could do more to prevent game ruining, trolling, flaming, and the like. The fact that we have very little measures to address such behavior in the existing self-hosting environment is a shame. But I guess, for some, that it is fun to live in the Wild West.

    As far as positives, there are many. The majority of these could effectively be construed as community building features. And yes, there are numerous communities that exist today and have existed over the years that have utilized them. You'd be surprised at how large some of these communities have grown around their "no-name map". Yes, I already mentioned DotA. That I would have to mention any others shows that you do not have a firm grasp of what encompasses the Warcraft III community.

    But the wrong attitude to take at this juncture is one where we find it acceptable to literally throw any part of the existing Warcraft III ecosystem under the bus. Sacrificing any part of the Warcraft III community is a bad move. But, apparently, you think that is fine. I'm glad you're not making the decisions for Blizzard. I only hope that they can come to the same conclusion that I have. The real issue, as I see it, is one of features. Where self-hosting is sorely lacking, and no viable alternative to the bots has been announced to the general public. Any lapse in functionality which would cause part of the existing community to wither, and potentially shrink or die, is absolutely a failure on Blizzard's part. If they are seriously considering a move such as this, shame on them.
     
  15. DracoL1ch

    DracoL1ch

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    Community just want to play liek it used to play for years. There are reason they're at wc3 and not moved into any other games (there are a lot of to chose). Blizz dont wanna bargain, they put it straight - erase bots and maybe they will give something in return later. But thats exactly how you kill your community. Just like I said 2 years ago.
     
  16. disruptive_

    disruptive_

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    It seems that you had that fear for too much time, and it seems that the "community" will simply not die, what ever that is.

    I'm on theorycraft mode right now, so don't take the following as serious:
    For me is key that the first update anounce were all "features" (new natives, new colors, new shit, new possibilities; basically they unleashed the fireworks) and now the updates are becoming destructive/problematic or atleast ambigous for everyone. I really seems like that they know what they're doing, like they're playing with our patience and tolerance, but as you pointed out, maybe they know that in the end they can get away with it.
     
  17. DracoL1ch

    DracoL1ch

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    sure it didn't die, its just splitted for 2 years and Im happy with my 1.26 memehack as well, thanks.
     
  18. Chaosy

    Chaosy

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    Cannot compute
     
  19. Jouven

    Jouven

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    TBH I don't think they are onto anything. In my mental simulations a good? idea would have been leave the old client as "legacy", stop supporting it and release a proper remaster integrated with "bnet2" with all the new features/stuff. Another idea could have been monetize the bot business like some companies did in the past, since users that aren't tech savvy may want to pay the price for this service, using a web interface like lunaghost did?, maybe they will do this in the future, I don't know.
    But right now in my mind Blizzard killing (or adapting what's relatively easy to adapt) the legacy equals to: we can't do better than what the community has done so let's erase/forbid it and try to run forward, maybe add some kind of monetization? (here I'm ass-pulling too)
    Maybe? their intentions are good, but the way they are doing it and the communication can't be worse, so I can only expect the worst
    Actions speak louder than intentions

    Is there any text/link/something that states their roadmap/plans?
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2018
  20. MasterBlaster

    MasterBlaster

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    Truth be told, I have never used bots and thus I don't really know what they are all about. Due to this, I don't really think I'm in a position to comment whether this is a good or a bad change.

    On a more theoretical level, though... On one hand, Warcraft 3 is Blizzard's intellectual property, so they have every right on the planet to do whatever they want with it and I can understand that they might not want third party sites interfering with their game, but on the other hand...

    If it is true that bots were used by a decent chunk of the game's remaining playerbase and helped keep Warcraft 3 alive, killing them without even a word of explanation as to why such a decision was made and what it entails for the future of the game, is nothing short of a d*ck move on Blizzard's part.

    But then again, in the recent years, I have personally grown quite baffled by Blizzard's communication policies, not just in Warcraft 3, but across most of their games, so I can't really say that I'm surprised that they've just ninja-ed an apparently quite big and controversial change like this one instead of having it be accompanied by, for instance, a well written forum post containing their reasoning and plans.

    And that lack of a proper communication is to me the biggest mistake they've made.

    Of course, there will always be people who will go "but muh bots" and reject any kind of discussion with Blizzard that doesn't end with them backing off completely, but I think that at least some pro-bots guys would be willing to accept this change if Blizzard was more transparent as to why it was made and what they are going to do to remedy the concerns that these players might have.

    However, in order for this to work, they'd have to talk to "us" now, not hope that people will cling to the thought that "PERHAPS they will give us SOMETHING at SOME POINT" long enough to not be alienated.

    ---

    That said, I have no idea why they've chosen to do it this way and I do hope that there's a resonable (i.e. other than that they simply don't care) explanation for it, but for the time being I can sympathize with those who feel they have been wronged by Blizzard, because... well, even to someone who has never used bots, such as myself, the way they've handled this does feel like a bit of a kick in the nuts.