Lack of mods?

[Ralle]

People become moderators because they like to help users, not because they would like to be a mod. If you like doing something, you get something out of it.

 

[Zombie]

Also true, however personal enjoyment and the will to help doesn't stay a strong motivator on the long term. Thus, skilled moderators might not stay in position for long, while obviously, devoting extra time into training new mods could be avoided if there were but a few devoted professionals. They could do more efficient work as well, to begin with.

 

[General Frank]

People become moderators because they like to help users, not because they would like to be a mod. If you like doing something, you get something out of it.

Only true for a minority of mods. I've seen some that became mods just to boss around people and just free ball shit.

Also true, however personal enjoyment and the will to help doesn't stay a strong motivator on the long term. Thus, skilled moderators might not stay in position for long, while obviously, devoting extra time into training new mods could be avoided if there were but a few devoted professionals. They could do more efficient work as well, to begin with.

I was 5 years a mod. And I devoted almost everything.

 

[Zombie]

You resigned as well, eventually.

 

[Solu9]

You resigned as well, eventually.

And people with paying jobs resign as well.
So you can't draw any conclusion from that. What, you know that.

 

[General Frank]

You resigned as well, eventually.

Well, shit was boiling in the toilet and the whole Zero Tolerance bullshit was just too hefty.
I simply could not support something that vile.

 

[Zombie]

Alright, I'll stop arguing for paid moderation since I don't support it either.

 

[Ralle]

My argument still stands. You moderate because you like it. If you like helping people you may become a moderator. But eventually the focus may switch to liking bossing people around, I am not denying that. But you still moderate because you like it. Even if the reason for you liking it is wrong.

 

[Rui]

Well... So your event, prior to the one I described, could not be affected by one coming after it?

In other words, I propose (hypothetically, of course) that <2009, THW incorporated the concept of "mini-mods". With whatever level of success they achieved, it was eclipsed & eventually left/forgotten with the ensuing dramatic goings-on in the years to follow (Zero Tolerance being one such example (~2010??)).

Regardless, why not do it again?

Huh that's a thesis I hadn't heard of before. There's lots to be pinned down as a reason for Zero Tolerance—rather the phenomena around it, perhaps—, but I had never thought mini-mods or the lack of them as one of those reasons.

I was more or less the responsible for that concept's ("mini-mod") appearance. Ralle also did some behind-the-scenes scripting that allowed, for example, those mini-mods to comment maps and indirectly approve them after x positive reviews.

The mini-mod system as I initially had it was a social group which helped me review maps. Those that proved to be interested in the work, I'd eventually promote to full map moderators. I was pretty demanding, so only bounty_hunter2 managed to get to full moderator, but I am not unhappy about being so strict. I don't recall seeing any complaints about Bounty's work, he was dedicated and when he realized he didn't have time to continue the job he came and told me so. That's the kind of commitment and honesty I appreciate, not the traditional, disgraceful lack of activity that boils down to eventual demotion (or worse attitudes—a few of which were the cause of Zero Tolerance).

The system was more or less slowly abolished because I passed on to general Dev moderator, then administrator and the map moderators that followed couldn't be bothered to keep up my standards.

 

[A Void]

My argument still stands. You moderate because you like it. If you like helping people you may become a moderator. But eventually the focus may switch to liking bossing people around, I am not denying that. But you still moderate because you like it. Even if the reason for you liking it is wrong.

I agree, if you like bossing people around- you will be a terrible moderator that will eventually get "fired". You have to moderate maps/ resources even if you don't like the author. You have to be fair and always strict with "no special cases on certain users". And always reasonable....

 

[Zombie]

Too bad humans don't work that way.

 

[A Void]

YouTube has automatic video reviewing and "moderation" system. I clearly hope this site needs such thing also..

 

[General Frank]

Yeah and we all saw how that shit turned out.
This site does not need such bullshit like youtube. This is a community site and not a freaking factory.

 

[A Void]

Yeah and we all saw how that shit turned out.
This site does not need such bullshit like youtube. This is a community site and not a freaking factory.

I was just suggesting. If we have such a problem we can always create a system that auto reviews the content based on what it was programmed to moderate and review.

 

[General Frank]

I was just suggesting. If we have such a problem we can always create a system that auto reviews the content based on what it was programmed to moderate and review.

If you can create a totally fair and genuinely good AI for that then sure go ahead. Nothing that is programmed for dealing with a community can be good. People should interact with people and not some kind of non-sense, robotic blank form or algorithm.
Do not suggest things you have not though trough completely, kid.

 

[A Void]

If you can create a totally fair and genuinely good AI for that then sure go ahead. Nothing that is programmed for dealing with a community can be good. People should interact with people and not some kind of non-sense, robotic blank form or algorithm.
Do not suggest things you have not though trough completely, kid.

I'm sorry if I offended you, o' wise one. I did not knew you care so much for the community-- if you did you would give us some ideas and suggestions. You are just pathetic as you may sound with calling me a kid, amt that you probably never interact in real life with "real" people. Internet is not real life, thus you can create AI to do the job. Who needs some mods sitting about when they could do so much better in real life? I am just suggesting an idea that could keep a community from falling. You are just ignorant to see it.

 

[General Frank]

I'm sorry if I offended you, o' wise one. I did not knew you care so much for the community-- if you did you would give us some ideas and suggestions. You are just pathetic as you may sound with calling me a kid, amt that you probably never interact in real life with "real" people. Internet is not real life, thus you can create AI to do the job. Who needs some mods sitting about when they could do so much better in real life? I am just suggesting an idea that could keep a community from falling. You are just ignorant to see it.

But your idea has been proven to be totally crappy, see YouTube.
And basically, you are the one suggesting to deal with people with an A.I., and I am the one saying that you should deal with people by talking to them via mods. So how about you stop being so ignorant, do your homework and lay off that fascist attitude of yours, hmm?

 

[A Void]

But your idea has been proven to be totally crappy, see YouTube.
And basically, you are the one suggesting to deal with people with an A.I., and I am the one saying that you should deal with people by talking to them via mods. So how about you stop being so ignorant, do your homework and lay off that fascist attitude of yours, hmm?

This is what you think. I don't need your opinion anymore. Thus your point stays invalid.

 

[General Frank]

This is what you think. I don't need your opinion anymore. Thus your point stays invalid.

You can continue to live in your dream world and think back of the day where everything could be censored and you had to raise your palm for the leader.

 

[Solu9]

This is what you think. I don't need your opinion anymore. Thus your point stays invalid.

You don't like his opinion and thus you deem it invalid?
How very fascist of you.

 

[A Void]

You don't like his opinion and thus you deem it invalid?
How very fascist of you.

Thank You

 

[Ralle]

Lol. When I was 16 I would have spent hours thinking about how to program this kind of system. Now, not so much .

Anyway, I think this thread has gone on long enough.

 

[Chaosy]

even though I think that power can be inviting (or maybe I should call it a small factor), I still think everyone that becomes a mod do like to help others in some way.

Else I doubt you would have been chosen in the first place, I mean you don't get chosen by sitting on your ass doing nothing.

 

[GhostWolf]

I mean you don't get chosen by sitting on your ass doing nothing.

Oh, then I've been doing it wrong all this time!

 

[Deleted member 219079]

Anyway, I think this thread has gone on long enough.

This thread resulted in nothing, I guess the thing is people don't need more mods. Likely because there's cons to it too.

Pros are ; faster moderating, more news-content (where's the news batch D, more competitions (as mods can advertise stuff, and reward greatly)

Cons are ; higher frequency of power abuse, higher chance of inflamed atmosphere (power on wrong user might cause conflicts), chance of nazi mod (don't even want to write that in plural), higher chance of getting banned

 

[Rui]

(...)
In other words, I propose (hypothetically, of course) that <2009, THW incorporated the concept of "mini-mods". With whatever level of success they achieved, it was eclipsed & eventually left/forgotten with the ensuing dramatic goings-on in the years to follow (Zero Tolerance being one such example (~2010??)).

Regardless, why not do it again?

Huh that's a thesis I hadn't heard of before. There's lots to be pinned down as a reason for Zero Tolerance—rather the phenomena around it, perhaps—, but I had never thought mini-mods or the lack of them as one of those reasons.
(...)

Maybe I understood it wrong and you were saying zero tolerance ended the concept? Regardless, if you want to explain your reasoning further.

even though I think that power can be inviting (or maybe I should call it a small factor), I still think everyone that becomes a mod do like to help others in some way.

Else I doubt you would have been chosen in the first place, I mean you don't get chosen by sitting on your ass doing nothing.

I beg to differ. I've seen again and again how people demonstrate interest and help people just as a means to achieve the goal. As soon as they get there they realize it isn't so exciting after all or the feeling of excitement fades eventually. The good side is that people do benefit, even though they're a mean for an end. I apologize for the cynicism, but this is the feeling I get.

(...)
Cons are ; higher frequency of power abuse, higher chance of inflamed atmosphere (power on wrong user might cause conflicts), chance of nazi mod (don't even want to write that in plural), higher chance of getting banned

I'm not so much afraid that a moderator is going to have these qualities. The problem is, just as it has been for years in the Hive, that some moderators are seemingly immune to demotion unless they resign. While I was an administrator, I tried to combat this tendency. The result is well known. In that specific case, the moderators even had the support of another administrator, to the point they were untouchable. That is how bad it can get: not that newly promoted moderators have the characteristics you mentioned, but more-so that no one can do anything about it.

 

[Heinvers]

In that specific case, the moderators even had the support of another administrator, to the point they were untouchable.

Lemme guess, one such case was TDW.

 

[PurgeandFire]

This thread resulted in nothing, I guess the thing is people don't need more mods. Likely because there's cons to it too.

Pros are ; faster moderating, more news-content (where's the news batch D, more competitions (as mods can advertise stuff, and reward greatly)

Cons are ; higher frequency of power abuse, higher chance of inflamed atmosphere (power on wrong user might cause conflicts), chance of nazi mod (don't even want to write that in plural), higher chance of getting banned

It didn't result in nothing. You are actually quite correct in your judgment, IMO. That is part of the reason why it takes a while to promote.

Getting moderators takes time. It is often a long discussion. If we aren't 80-100% about a user, then it usually won't happen, or we'll put it off. But indeed, moderators will be added when needed. It is just the issue of finding someone who meets our qualifications. We're not elitist, we just want to reflect well of the staff. But have no fear, there are tons of flowers out there ready to bloom. It is just a matter of time.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Maybe I understood it wrong and you were saying zero tolerance ended the concept? Regardless, if you want to explain your reasoning further.

Lol, took me long enough to answer that you (basically) answered it for me. Yes, I was indeed describing my theory as to why the "Mini-Mod" era came to a close (postulating that it was a result of Zero Tolerance, among other factors). Granted, I wasn't around for all this, but still.

I don't think this issue is unresolvable, without hope, or 'resulting in nothing'. This is an excellent topic with the potential to change how things are done here at THW for the better. We have to push for excellence; for example, in many of the contests I have been campaigning for many positive changes (better voter accountability, better polling algorithms, more comprehensive & standardized rules & regulations, etc). This is a similar issue, to me. With backlogs into the tens of pages, the moderators and administrators need help; Mini-Mods might be the answer, they might not. But let's talk about it.

 

[Rui]

Lemme guess, one such case was TDW.

No, it was before TDW—also notice I said «they». It can certainly be pinned down as one of the things that led to TDW's coming. For the sake of not awaking old hatreds, I didn't want to be too specific.

Notice I also wrote «for years». This has been a tradition ever since as far back as 2008: idle or detrimental moderators just aren't demoted. Thus why I state that Jondrean's cons aren't a problem in itself, but rather what is (not) done to quell the issue when it happens.

 

[Chaosy]

I beg to differ. I've seen again and again how people demonstrate interest and help people just as a means to achieve the goal. As soon as they get there they realize it isn't so exciting after all or the feeling of excitement fades eventually. The good side is that people do benefit, even though they're a mean for an end. I apologize for the cynicism, but this is the feeling I get.

While I can imagine this being a possibility, I still think this is rather rare case. I don't got ant proof for or against the statement. It's just my feeling.