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60,000 passwords have been reset on July 8, 2019. If you cannot login, read this.

Achieving a better spell section:

Discussion in 'Site Discussion' started by Deuterium, Sep 19, 2009.

?

You want to see such changes happening to the Spells section?

  1. Yes

    91.9%
  2. No

    8.1%
  1. Deuterium

    Deuterium

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    Introduction: The Issue



    As we've been seeing lately, the spell section moderation has been very poor over the last few months. Yet, no approach to improve the spell section moderation has been made.

    What we expected after the "purge" was actually getting spells reviewed, instead, barely any are getting reviewed (every few days some spells are reviewed).​



    I. Active moderation



    So what I'm asking for here? More moderators? No.

    What we really need are active moderators!

    None of the present moderators are active in any way as they're "busy with real life". And still, such an excuse in my opinion is senseless as no matter how busy they're lives are, 5 spells a day (the supposed upload average in my opinion) out of which usually 3 could be instantly rejected, won't take more than 30 minutes a day. Having 3 moderators, that's 10 minutes per each a day.

    And since we need to clean the spell section now, if each moderator works 30 minutes a day, then in a few months the section would have all spells reviewed.

    If the current moderators aren't able of doing their job, then new moderators should be chosen to replace them.​



    II. Trusted Reviewers List



    Well, I also have an idea to make reviewing for the moderators easier:
    Making a list of the trusted spell reviewers.

    The moderators should make a list of those trusted reviewers for both GUI and (v)Jass. That way, when they check the spells, if they can skim through the reviews, and then compare it to the code, and if the reviews seems logical, either approve or reject according to them (all that won't take more than 2 or 3 minutes per spell).​



    III. Spell Section's Sub-Sections



    Now this isn't an essential, but an advice to make the spell section neater.

    The spell section should have "sub-sections". Something close to how it's done in wc3c. Three sections would be enough:
    1. Vanialla GUI and Jass spells
    2. vJass spell
    3. Systems

    And an additional optional section:
    4. External systems (which links to external systems on other sites, 'cause really, most of the used systems don't get uploaded to the hive).

    I mean really, all that would only make the section neater, and nicer to use.​



    IV. The Update Box: Brainstorming



    Here I'd be posting any interesting ideas by the fellow users (as long as their logical and useful).




    Last Words



    Although I don't think any changes would be made as it's not the first time we ask for changes, I at least hope so.

    For any who opposes any of the just mentioned ideas, please be gentle enough to explain why.​



    Thanks all!
    Deuterium
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2009
  2. Deuterium

    Deuterium

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    Just as a separate note:
    I know there's the Jass section made for Jass systems and codes, but it seems like users prefer uploading them to the Spells section


    Also:
    I hope you people could post a link to this thread in your signatures to let everyone know about this discussion.


    Please:
    Don't get greedy or childish and start asking to become a mod or something. That's just stupid. Oh, and also don't name people who deserve to be a mod, that's also just stupid. If that discussion is to happen, there would be a separate thread.


    I know:
    I know that Anachron has made a common thread to this some time ago, but this deals a different purpose (although both intend to improve the Spells section).
     
  3. Reaper2008

    Reaper2008

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    Once more you are right. I see new spells every day, and while some get reviewed, most (usually (v)JASS spells) are left, and soon forgotten.
     
  4. Linaze

    Linaze

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    The difference between the Jass section and the Spells section is that the Jass section contains scripts and the Spells section contains spells (duh) and systems.
     
  5. Deuterium

    Deuterium

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    Yes I know that Linaze :p but I mean usually systems are only plain scripts (few are the systems that use object editing) yet they are mostly posted in the spells section, usually for testing purposes.
     
  6. Paladon

    Paladon

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    After reaching over 200 pending spells again, i wonder why noone used the chance which was given with the "purge".

    Yes, having active moderators is a must. The repromotion of old veterans is generally not constructive if these veterans avoid doing their job nowadays.
    There should be a list of trusted people who may review submitted ressources since the moderators don't seem to be able to handle it alone.
    Sub-sections are not necessary in particular. You have the search options.

    Good luck with brainstorming.
     
  7. Linaze

    Linaze

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    In my personal opinion, we should combine the Jass and Spells section into a Code section (a bit like wc3c has), but instead of sub-forums like wc3c has, we'll just have our good old filtering system.
     
  8. HINDYhat

    HINDYhat

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    The majority of GUI reviewers I've crossed have been full of poo in most of their reviews. Besides, if we really had a list of trusted reviewers, they'd probably already be up for promotion, so the whole reviewing thing is kind of pointless.

    The way it's organized now is fine. That would just make it feel like we're copying wc3c for the sake of copying. There is no real advantage to organizing it in sub-sections rather than having tags for different submissions.

    And they don't get uploaded because often the author doesn't want them here (see Vexorian's stuff etc). Shouldn't spells and systems follow the same credit principle as other resources?

    The systems that are uploaded to the spell section and actually have a decent test map are probably meant for the spell section. The Jass scripts forum is meant for scripts and systems that don't need demo maps, or that are difficult to use without one. Besides, this isn't really a huge problem, is it?

    I can't really think of any solution other than trying to hire more motivated moderators, and that isn't saying much. Fiddling with the spell section's layout definitely won't fix anything...
     
  9. -JonNny

    -JonNny

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    I personally do not really care about sections
    but sections wouldnt be that bad

    In my opinion we need more active mods.
    Easily said - not easy to do

    but due the spell section looks kinda dead ( ~ 1 approve per week or something) i guss something has to happen
    rcruiting more and more spell mods cannot really be the solution due most seem to loose motivation after some month to approve much because they seem to be alone each time

    At first reviews stopped due the 1.24 patch and i was told that afterwards, after all bugged spell are removed the approving continues

    but nothing happenes even now
     
  10. Deuterium

    Deuterium

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    As you can see guys, this was only ADVICE :p

    Not really... mods need to have alot of good traits besides knowing coding...
    However, reviewers don't. A reviewer could be a good one just by knowing how to code.

    Humm, well, the MAJORITY :p
    That's why there should be a list...

    Also this was an additional advice. Linking to the original resource doesn't violate any accreditation.
     
  11. HINDYhat

    HINDYhat

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    A reviewer would check a spell to see if it has flaws. If it's flawless, he would put it up for approval.
    A moderator would check a spell to see if it has flaws. If it's flawless, he would approve it.
    What other responsibilities do spell moderators have?

    Oh, did you mean linking to Wc3c's resource thread for, say, Vexorian's Map Optimizer, as opposed to uploading it here?
     
  12. Zack1996

    Zack1996

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    You speak the truth.
    The purge didn't do anything. It just made some spells deleted and re-uploaded again, causing another re-review.

    I do agree that active mods are needed, but are lacking. Sometimes, it feels as if some spells should just be rejected straight away. There should probably be some "Vote for Rejection" button that works like Report Post, so the Spell mods can just open the map, know that the spell was crappily done, and reject it.

    My idea so far.
     
  13. Rmx

    Rmx

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    Yes, the spell section needs to be active.

    Nothing barely gets approved, we need mods.

    I agree with you SEED.
     
  14. Deuterium

    Deuterium

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    @ Hindy:
    Well the thing is moderators need to be mature and responsible and smart... to say it in short: a leader.
    That's how they differ from reviewers... I mean I've seen some really good coders, but tell them "I don't really like this spell", and you'll see their childish reactions :p

    And yes I mean linking to the original and not resource, just a plain link... I'm actually totally against re-uploading here :p

    @ Zack:
    There already is the mini-mod option where you vote for rejection or approval :p
     
  15. Linaze

    Linaze

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    A resource moderator mainly needs to know how to properly review something.
     
  16. Deuterium

    Deuterium

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    Well if a moderator isn't at least slightly mature and understanding, then there's no way he'd be doing a good job since he'd be the one with the childish behaviors :p
     
  17. Palaslayer

    Palaslayer

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    you have my vote, but i doubt that anything will be changed.
     
  18. Deuterium

    Deuterium

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    We all doubt that :p
     
  19. Kwah

    Kwah

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    Yes, more moderators would be nice. But it won't happen, primarily because the SPELL SECTION SUCKS.
     
  20. Deuterium

    Deuterium

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    I didn't say more moderators... I said active moderators :p