Icon/Model/Spell Team Contest - Hive Member[+100 Rep]

[venger07]

Are there any other teams where I can join? I could do a spell or icon.

 

[Apheraz Lucent]

@Edge45 , Oh I've some fine legs

@IcemanBo , Suggestions were always much appreciated during the contests, allowing users to collect some feedback from the "general state of mind" while working on their project. When was this rule in specific changed?

@Misha , You can bet your ass I'm going to do a skin for that model, hope it's not based all on in-game!

 

[Hantoo]

2nd WIP for hero Portrait

Image

40% i guess?

 

[IcemanBo]

@venger07 , you could be with @MyPad and @Darkfang. I add you to the team. Could someone of team poste then if it worked out?

@Apheraz Lucent there's a line somewhere, when it comes to detailed tips, fixes, or reviews. The feedback should not be about technical improvements, as teamwork is not wanted outside the teams.

 

[Kyrbi0]

@Apheraz Lucent
@IcemanBo

@IcemanBo , Suggestions were always much appreciated during the contests, allowing users to collect some feedback from the "general state of mind" while working on their project. When was this rule in specific changed?

This was too important to wait on; you are absolutely right to point this out.

It would appear they are taking the normal Contest Rule of

• Teamwork with non-team members is not allowed.

... to an utterly extreme level of interpretation, defining "teamwork" as "any conceivable kind of critique/review". I can't think of a single Contest we've ever run that did things like that, and for a very good reason: a huge part of the enjoyment & excitement in these Contests is the sharing of WIPs & then reviews, critiquing & providing suggestions & ideas.

"Teamwork" has, up till now, always been more sensically designated as 'actual physical work'; i.e. the Coder can't have someone else write code for them, nor the Artist have someone draw the strokes, or create the mesh or animations for them.

I'm all for ensuring that true 'Teamwork' isn't shared outside the Team, but we're not isolated islands; we're a community that thrives on this kind of interaction. No one is doing any 'work' for a Team when they provide detailed critique or analysis.

I would highly suggest that we move away from this interpretation & allow conversation (at any depth).
Words != Work.

 

[Apheraz Lucent]

Well there's a fine line between saying "Eyes should be smaller and make-up more diffused" and saying "Eyes should be smaller, a black outline with 2px hard brush could help with that, and you can blur the make-up with the skin to make it more opaque using Gaussian blur and layer mask which is also attached to a grayscale modifyer".

The feedback should not be about technical improvements, as teamwork is not wanted outside the teams.

Then what should it be about, if not about what looks good and what could look better? If it's compliments only, that's not feedback.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Well there's a fine line between saying "Eyes should be smaller and make-up more diffused" and saying "Eyes should be smaller, a black outline with 2px hard brush could help with that, and you can blur the make-up with the skin to make it more opaque using Gaussian blur and layer mask which is also attached to a grayscale modifyer".

This is probably a line we should define more clearly, and I'm fine with that (esp. for future Contests going forward).

For the record, I'm honestly fine even with that level of feedback (your latter example, which I infer you might consider 'too much'). The line for me is actual, physical 'work'. That same artist, taking your icon WIP & doing it for you, is the key. Otherwise, it's all just feedback, and helpful at that.

 

[Apheraz Lucent]

True that as well. Cheers

 

[Misha]

@IcemanBo .. you're pretty much angering me now.. regardless of if i'm right or not.. sit down and don't ruin my fun, doing the actual contest :/
.. and don't reply to me either..

@Apheraz Lucent , well.. i don't think you'll have trouble retexturing.. but that's all i'm going to say, because someone can't recognize the difference between a non-contest inspiration, and rulebreaking

 

[KILLCIDE]

Cut off with the passive aggressive shit. Its so childish. If you dont like the rules, dont participate. Tips / pointers obviously gives a contestant an advantage unless the person who gave you the tip is willing to give EVERY other contestant an equally helpful tip.

 

[IcemanBo]

If it happens/happened in other contests, it might be have been not allowed, too. I see it like we have a rule that teamworking is not allowed publicly. If that's good or bad is debatable, but our problem is anyways the definiton of what this actually means. (I am rewriting arena rules by the way currently where this will be probably better defined in future)

---

If I try to summerize the points above from posts:

"Teamwork" has, up till now, always been more sensically designated as 'actual physical work'; i.e. the Coder can't have someone else write code for them, nor the Artist have someone draw the strokes, or create the mesh or animations for them.

Well there's a fine line between saying "Eyes should be smaller and make-up more diffused" and saying "Eyes should be smaller, a black outline with 2px hard brush could help with that, and you can blur the make-up with the skin to make it more opaque using Gaussian blur and layer mask which is also attached to a grayscale modifyer".

This is probably a line we should define more clearly

The line for me is actual, physical 'work'.

True that as well. Cheers

In the argumentation you at least partially agreed, that also written, and not physical teamwork can be seen as not allowed work sharing, like when giving very detailed instructions, see second quote.

By the way:

Then what should it be about, if not about what looks good and what could look better? If it's compliments only, that's not feedback.

^Sure, saying something is good, or bad, or even only thumps up, is feedback, too. It's vague, and has only functional aspect that I know he likes it. It doesn't give technical help.

---

Now what I see as not allowed feedback, is when it comes to detailed intructions what needs to be changed. "remove/add this or that at position" "use color xxxx" ... so if it has technical aspects.
This is the same reason why we don't allow detailed reviews, because there might be too much help, or instructions that the contestant might use for his entry for the contest.

 

[Flux]

In my opinion as long as the feedback is subjective it's fine. Examples are "I like the viewing angle", "I don't like the color scheme", "I don't like the Knockback mechanics", etc. It's mostly applicable to Art and not much into Spells except the concept. If one wants to give detailed technical feedback, perhaps he/she should wait when it is in the resource section after deadline is done.

 

[Apheraz Lucent]

Can we please get an adequate administrator to comment on this "issue" (with a note that it has never been an issue until now) before it evolves into something that's far beyond repairing, seeing it is already causing some flickers among respectable members of the community.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

seeing it is already causing some flickers among respectable members of the community

Yeah IcemanBo and KILLCIDE having it rough.

 

[IcemanBo]

Can we please get an adequate administrator to comment on this "issue"

I tried rationally to explain the rule, but yes, Admin Contact is a possibility.

 

[KILLCIDE]

In my opinion as long as the feedback is subjective it's fine. Examples are "I like the viewing angle", "I don't like the color scheme", "I don't like the Knockback mechanics", etc. It's mostly applicable to Art and not much into Spells except the concept.

Agreed.

 

[Shar Dundred]

@IcemanBo .. you're pretty much angering me now.. regardless of if i'm right or not.. sit down and don't ruin my fun, doing the actual contest :/
.. and don't reply to me either..

Can we please get an adequate administrator to comment on this "issue"

Come on, you are grown-ups, you can discuss this without lowering yourself to such a level. I expect better from you, especially from you @Apheraz Lucent.

And, I apologize, but I have to point this out again.

@IcemanBo [...].. and don't reply to me either..

Are. You. Fucking. Kidding. Me.

 

[Apheraz Lucent]

I'm not lowering myself anywhere love. There's a thing called being subtle.

I've notified the Administration team, and am waiting for their aid.

 

[Hantoo]

Im not sure if im suppose to say this but would it be better to disscuss this in another new thread or at othe section because the contest is going more and more off topic

 

[PROXY]

@PrinceYaser , your post was removed.

@Misha , I sligthly edited your post, too.

Reviewing and giving more detailed suggestions is definitly not allowed until the contest is over, not here, or somewhere else. Please understand. Any reviewing inside teams is very allowed, though.

I'm sorry.. but what? Contests on the hive were and always have been about challenging others but also about helping each other out with feedback and criticism. Hell, even technical tips and tricks were encouraged to be exchanged, you were even allowed to ask in the forums if you encountered any bugs or problems that would not let you continue on your work. Stopping that from happening removes the possibility of learning and growing, not only by your personal abilities but from a community point of view. I agree with Kyrbi0 here. Restricting us from something like that is a clear step backwards.

If this rule will happen stay like that, I consider dropping out of this contest and not entering anyone ever again. Hive's about fun, community and our love to warcraft 3, we're not fucking tryhards. (The point would be a different one, but maybe not even there, if it was all about some big prize or something, but jeez guys, this is about REP).

 

[Flux]

For the record, I don't give a damn if one member gives a technical detailed review over other contestants' entries. I can't say the same for others though, they might thought of it as unfair so I was imaginibg IcemanBo's thought process when he edited the feedback post.

As for improvement of skills, entries are encouraged to be submitted to the resource section (where more feedbacks are welcome) so I doubt limiting feedback during contest will hinder growth.

 

[PROXY]

As for improvement of skills, entries are encouraged to be submitted to the resource section (where more feedbacks are welcome) so I doubt limiting feedback during contest will hinder growth.

But it totally does. No time else will you have such an concentrated amount of skills especially targeted at the section of modding you are working in then in a contest thread. 80% of the people commenting in the ressource section are people that have no real understanding of the model other than a general one. I got so much great feedback in the last years only in modelling contest threads and the ones extending them, from people I would never have gotten in contact into if I simply did not join the contests and only uploaded my stuff in the ressource section.

 

[Shar Dundred]

I'm not lowering myself anywhere love. There's a thing called being subtle.

Openly asking for an "adequate" administrator to deal with this, makes you call the assisgned
moderators inadequate.
That's hardly subtle by my standards.

If this rule will happen stay like that, I consider dropping out of this contest and not entering anyone ever again.

unneccessary
Isn't that a bit of an overreaction?
Your call, I won't stop you, but I think you are overreacting.

Hive's about fun, community and our love to warcraft 3, we're not fucking tryhards. (The point would be a different one, but maybe not even there, if it was all about some big prize or something, but jeez guys, this is about REP).

Why overreact then? I still don't see a reason here to rage-quit contests for good.

For the record, I don't give a damn if one member gives a technical detailed review over other contestants' entries.

Neither do I, I just think that I witness quite the overreactions and unnecessary aggressive responds here.
This is hardly fair for anyone here - like the mods who are being attacked for doing what they are
supposed to be doing.
This is no discussion, it is shouting out opinions, hoping that only the own remains at the end.

 

[PROXY]

Because it's about making a point. It's not about overreacting, I just don't want to be part of something that openly discourages something that's desparetly needed in a community like this.

The slightly more emotional response might also come from the fact that general rules/deadlines whatsoever that were in use for the last years were changed and adapted (only to be worse) without any communication beforehand and the reasoning being only personal opinions too mostly.

 

[Misha]

so.. here's my latest WIP, for those who care about the contest

Zhe @Apheraz Lucent :3

 

[stein123]

Hey, is there space for one more team?

 

[IcemanBo]

Yes, sure. Do you already have planned team mates, and a team name?

 

[Chaosy]

Oh please.
@Shar Dundred
Since when do you have the moral high ground?

From my point of view it seemed civil enough, I've said worse than that and not gotten into much trouble for it.
Then again maybe they are held to a higher standard than me.

Anyway, were some posts deleted or something? the "drama" is nonexistent to my eyes.

 

[stein123]

Yes, sure. Do you already have planned team mates, and a team name?

Yeah, Stonneash, FersZ and I, our team's name is The Lifebinders @w@ (and our colour will be green iirc XD)

 

[IcemanBo]

Who will do which aspect?

 

[MiniMage]

Greetings, Hivers.

Tragedy strikes, I shall inform you guys how; I've been suffering with Kidney stones these last few days. I didn't notify you guys earlier because the pain made me throw up continuously, and well, basically made it impossible to think. Right now, I'm awaiting surgery and in the meantime I'm taking heavy duty pain meds, which ingredients include morphine. Despite this, there's still pain that bleeds through, just so you know about what the level the pain is at. Because of this, it's impossible to model, for obvious reasons, as just leaning forwards is an ordeal. Going to the bathroom doubly so.

I don't think I'll be able to recover enough in time for for the deadline. However, I did state I would be making san's Hivemons regardless of contest reward or not when I feel better, because it's a fun idea. For this contest, I was working on making "San". @Apheraz Lucent I am sorry for being unable to complete a model for you to provide a skin for.

@Abovegame Also informed me that he wouldn't be able to code the spell, I'm not sure about his exact reason. But he relayed this information to me via discord. So basically, that would mean our little team crumbles away, tragically.

@Shar Dundred I as a man in pain, should help you resolve the pain of pointless drama. I don't have pain meds to share, but I got the next best thing; Logic. Help is good, input is good. There is no reason to be mad.

Contests exists to inspire learning and to engage the community, thus by that logic, critiques and input is essential for the contest to function. Just because you await someone adequate does not imply you deem the others as inadequate. Only a Sith thinks in absolutes, or something. I donno. Point being, it's a strange argument.

I'm not really sure what anyone needs to report though, as far as I can see, the discussion has been fairly civil. Posts may have been edited or deleted though. But as it looks? It looks civil.

Anyhow,you kids be good now.
/MiniMage out

 

[Apheraz Lucent]

Oh fuck the contest love, I hope you'll get through that with the least amount of pain as possible. No hard feelings whatsoever, just get well. There'll be other times to team up, but there's one of you momentarily.

@Misha, I look fabulous =) I'm not sure what the thing on her breasts is supposed to mean tho, it looks a bit clustered, but that might be just the viewing angle. Looks nice overall =)

 

[Misha]

@Apheraz Lucent , its.. a thing hayate suggested o3o ya know, team feedback

 

[Exarch]

Just putting a note;
if anyone need a team member. Pick me up
@MiniMage oh man im so sorry for your pain. Im always scared to form kidney stones yet i barely drink few drops of water a day even when im thirsty to death and that glass of water awaits it's destiny to evaporation in my desk. Hope you can recover quickly!

 

[Apheraz Lucent]

I think I'll just drop out completely, there not being enough time left on the clock, and having most of people I'd collab with taken already.

Unsubbing from thread, and waiting for the poll.
Good luck guys.

 

[RED BARON]

Just shortly about the "off-topic" contest discussion: As Hive contests is mostly meant to be an excuse to make something and have fun/learn something while doing it, I cannot see a reason to put much limit on feedback. Sure extremely detailed replies that basically design/create the resource in question would be pointless. But suggestions about adding more shading or consider a potential leak is not something I see a problem with - again as long as its learn by doing. Not describing in detail where and how to create the shade, but let the person in question know that it might be missing, and thus e.g. give an opportunity for a new experience.

I think I'll just drop out completely, there not being enough time left on the clock, and having most of people I'd collab with taken already.

Unsubbing from thread, and waiting for the poll.
Good luck guys.

Shame, but understandable given the circumstances, at least Misha's team ensures that you are here per representative.. Not much reason to unsub? Or is it not to ruin the surprise?

Greetings, Hivers.

Tragedy strikes, I shall inform you guys how; I've been suffering with Kidney stones these last few days.t

Darn man, best of luck with it and here is to a speedy recovery with as little pain as possible.

 

[Moy]

Here's our first wip for the portrait icon of @Deolrin

 

[Apheraz Lucent]

Apparently, when you unsub it doesn't prevent people quoting you throwing an alert.

@RED BARON Well the team left and I can't be bothered to find a new one, not much reason for me to stay here. I won't see anything that I will not see in a month when poll's up.

 

[Misha]

@~Nightmare , that's artfully ugly because, ya know.. trolls. This captures the uniqueness of them

 

[Celaquil]

It is our moderator's jobs to make contests as fair as possible, when "feedback" is dished out at random there is no
way of asserting the level of fairness this behaviour fosters. Do not blame them for trying to make it equally fair and
winnable for everyone who enters. This is a question of equity, not of fun. Fun is what you make of it, there is ample
opportunity to have fun in a competitive environment without a level of feedback which makes the contest inherently
biased. The administration approves of the actions of the moderators.

 

[deepstrasz]

This is a question of equity

Each team should give feedback to every team otherwise, it's not fair, I agree. Thing is, only two teams have put forth WiPs, from what I remember and the entries list says.

 

[KILLCIDE]

Contest ends on the 22nd, so there is still a lot of time for WIPs.

 

[PROXY]

It is our moderator's jobs to make contests as fair as possible, when "feedback" is dished out at random there is no
way of asserting the level of fairness this behaviour fosters. Do not blame them for trying to make it equally fair and
winnable for everyone who enters. This is a question of equity, not of fun. Fun is what you make of it, there is ample
opportunity to have fun in a competitive environment without a level of feedback which makes the contest inherently
biased. The administration approves of the actions of the moderators.

So why a contest thread at all then? it will always be random and uncontrollable anyways. just lock the thread then, let the contestants send a wip of their works to the host and you're done.

the strategy followed here is directly contradicted by the fact that you have to upload your stuff in the ressource section. Say I'll finish my stuff tomorrow, I'll get way more feedback till the deadline then others. or do you want to do it like in the thread and check every ressource thread for possibly too much feedback? good luck on that.

 

[deepstrasz]

So why a contest thread at all then? it will always be random and uncontrollable anyways. just lock the thread then, let the contestants send a wip of their works to the host and you're done.

Well, WiPs should be seen by all contestants for proof reasons not only by the judges.

 

[KILLCIDE]

the strategy followed here is directly contradicted by the fact that you have to upload your stuff in the ressource section.

One of the reasons this rule exists is because a lot of great resources come out of contests, and it is sort of a shame to have them just rot in an arena thread.

do you want to do it like in the thread and check every ressource thread for possibly too much feedback?

We've been working on a big revamp for the Arena section at the moment (mostly IcemanBo), and this issue was brought up. The best solution in my opinion is to automatically lock the thread of a resource when they select the Contest Entry tag. The issue is that this will require some work on Ralle's end, so as of right now, the rule we had agreed on has actually been posted in the original post of the contest since it started:

The resource description must make it clear it is an entry from the respective contest.

 

[Flux]

the strategy followed here is directly contradicted by the fact that you have to upload your stuff in the ressource section. Say I'll finish my stuff tomorrow, I'll get way more feedback till the deadline then others. or do you want to do it like in the thread and check every ressource thread for possibly too much feedback? good luck on that.

Your resource thread will be locked until the contest is finished. Then again, no one's stoping someone from messaging you privately about feedback on your resource.

 

[Misha]

.. can we change the subject? 'n'

 

[Moy]

Almost there.. or it is done already

 

[deepstrasz]

Almost there.. or it is done already

Well, I guess, it's too on spot. @Misha's is a bit more symbolic you know...

 

[PROXY]

Well, I guess, it's too on spot. @Misha's is a bit more symbolic you know...

As it was free to the team however they wanted to interpret their chosen user, we went less for the modelling side of his "personality" and more for his troll side