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Existence of God

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Hakeem, Sep 14, 2007.

?

See below.

  1. Yes, and I can prove it with logic.

    15 vote(s)
    17.4%
  2. Yes, but I only believe. I can't prove it.

    18 vote(s)
    20.9%
  3. I will remain unaffiliated until proof is given. (No.)

    22 vote(s)
    25.6%
  4. No, it's just an invention.

    31 vote(s)
    36.0%
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  1. donut3.5

    donut3.5

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    Well, as stated in previous threads, nothing can be proven, only assumed to be true until disproven.
    And you can't say that only applies to mine and not yours.
    --donut3.5--
     
  2. Elenai

    Elenai

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    That is true donut. True indeed.

    But you must also look at the otherside of the coin.

    "If a statement P implies a statement Q, and a statement R also implies Q, and either P or R is true, then the Q has to be true."

    Or perhaps the famous quote.

    "Eliminate all other factors, and the one which remains must be the truth."
     
  3. HeretoDLstuff

    HeretoDLstuff

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    On the rock topic: If god could do anything, he could make himself weak so he couldnt lift the rock. Size would matter. If your going by the theory that god can do anything he could make himself not be able to or be able too, no matter what the size of the rock is, or how much it Weighs...

    EDIT:
    According to the bible and such, everyone on earth deserves to die. The ones that are dieing are the ones that he isnt kindly saveing. WHy does he chose those to die? Maybe the have unspoken sins, or maybe he chooses then randomly and uses then as a exaple to other of what will happen to them...Some people might ask why bother obey him if there all doomed to die, but just becaus they deserve to die doesnt mean they will. Have you heard the saying "You most die byside him on the cross to be saved." ? Well I dont know for sure what that means but I take it to mean even if obeying him causes you to suffer greatly or/and die, you will be revived like him..
    I would never try to make anyone believe in god. What my opinion and youres is if out own right; nobody should try and change it. Nor should we try change others.


    Im my opinion this thread is doomed to be closed in the end, no matter how hard you try to keep it from that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2007
  4. Elenai

    Elenai

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    Weighs Bob....weighs. EDIT: bob fixed it.

    God can do anything within his nature...God will not, however, go against his nature to make a rock that is bigger/what-ever than him.

    This has an indepth answer to that question.
    http://www.carm.org/atheism/God_rock.htm

    And do not fear. This site is quite reliable. Nor is it an extremist site.



    [Off topic] 777 posts! Thats God's number. :cgrin:
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2007
  5. GST_Nemisis

    GST_Nemisis

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    i dont see why none of you are support the gods of old egypt. they have been around longer and there is crap loads of evidence to support them. just look at the wall paintings as temples that still exist today. much more than christianity anyways.
     
  6. WILL THE ALMIGHTY

    WILL THE ALMIGHTY

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    I wasn't directing it at any one.
     
  7. HeretoDLstuff

    HeretoDLstuff

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    I know, but I though you might have taken some of my post to be trying to get you to believe.
     
  8. Elenai

    Elenai

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    GST: The gods of Egypt never gave me salvation, nor have they ever answerd my prayers as God has.

    But even so, the archeological evidence is only half the equation. Peoples personal experiences of God's power is the other half.

    And even so. The God of the Christians and the Jews has been around since......forever.
     
  9. Fulla

    Fulla

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    Relgion is/was just created to control people.
    Its perhaps a bit different nowadays.
     
  10. Kjiverx

    Kjiverx

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    that story is kinda suspicious to me. lot wasn't righteous anyway. offering to let people rape your daughters to save two people you met five minutes ago is kinda a sin.

    the whole rock thing---God made the universe. or however many there are. he is omnipotent. he controls the universe, or could, trees don't need god to grow, that's automatic. god could make a universe where pi=the square root of a muffin, if he wanted to. consider please the meaning of omnipotent. the latin is "to be able" plus "all". god can do anything except for get more powerful.

    or, so that you can understand it,
    ANYTHING
     
  11. HeretoDLstuff

    HeretoDLstuff

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    Hes allready as powerful as he can get, you yeah...
     
  12. SuPa-

    SuPa-

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    Any written scriptures from far-off history are not any sort of proof in the least. People from long ago were pretty superstitious if you ask me. It's very easy to make up something completely ridiculous and then make it so ignorant people believe it. I've done it more times than I can count when I was little. There is no real proof that god exists if you ask me. Therefore there is no reason to believe he exists.
     
  13. HeretoDLstuff

    HeretoDLstuff

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    For all you know some people have felt or experienced something you havent. But we cant realy know whats going on in there heads, and whats happining to them. Maybe to them, he does exist and we just cant hear him.
     
  14. Elenai

    Elenai

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    SuPa: You must'nt forget though. That the bible also contains versus describing the workings of the planet, not quite known. (the world being round was known, but these are different examples)

    "Were other cosmologies found in religions have the world on the back of turtles, or the earth being the result of a fight between gods, biblical revelation is quite consistent with science. This is not to say that the Bible is vindicated by science; rather, it is science that is vindicated by the Bible. Consider the following: (note: all quotes are from the NIV)

    The Spherical Shape of the Earth - "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in" (Isaiah 40:22).
    The Hebrew language did not have a word for "sphere." Circle is quite sufficient.

    The Earth is suspended in nothing - "He spreads out the northern [skies] over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing" (Job 26:7).

    The Stars are Innumerable - "He took him outside and said, "Look up at the heavens and count the stars -- if indeed you can count them." Then he said to him, "So shall your offspring be" (Genesis 15:5).

    The Existence of Valleys in the Seas - "The valleys of the sea were exposed and the foundations of the earth laid bare at the rebuke of the LORD, at the blast of breath from his nostrils" (2 Samuel 22:16).

    The Existence of Springs and Fountains in the Seas - "In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, on the seventeenth day of the second month -- on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened" (Genesis 7:11). See also Gen. 8:2; Prov. 8:28.

    The Existence of Water Paths (Ocean Currents) in the Seas - "O LORD, our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth!...When I consider your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have set in place,...You made him [man] ruler over the works of your hands; you put everything under his feet...the birds of the air, and the fish of the sea, all that swim the paths of the seas" (Psalm 8:1,3,6,8).

    The Hydrologic Cycle - "He wraps up the waters in his clouds, yet the clouds do not burst under their weight" (Job 26:8).
    - "He draws up the drops of water, which distill as rain to the streams; the clouds pour down their moisture and abundant showers fall on mankind" (Job 36:27-28)
    - "The wind blows to the south and turns to the north; round and round it goes, ever returning on its course. All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again (Ecclesiastes 1:6-7).

    The Concept of Entropy - "In the beginning you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. Like clothing you will change them and they will be discarded" (Psalm 102:25-26)."

    This also makes the point that just because we believe in a God does not mean that we (most Christians) are utterly against science.
     
  15. Turtles

    Turtles

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    oh? have you ever prayed to them? have you ever worshipped them like ancient Eqyptians did? Have you ever actually believed in them as you do in God?
    I could turn that argument around. God's never answered any of my prayers, and yes, I have prayed. He's never given me salvation. does that mean he's non-existant, in your mind?
     
  16. donut3.5

    donut3.5

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    In most cases, there are infinite factors, or close to it. The best you can do is pick a side and believe in it, which is what this whole debate is about.
    --donut3.5--
     
  17. SuPa-

    SuPa-

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    Yay for the transitive property?
     
  18. Teh_Ephy

    Teh_Ephy

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    Elenai, you've shown those to us before. I'll admit that while some of those are pretty crazy (in a good, prophetic way), a large number of them are just too vague.

    The earth being a circle fits with both archaic and contemporary views. Because it could describe either a the previous incorrect idea or the current correct one, that "evidence" isn't as valid as you would like.

    About the earth being suspended in nothing, an old European view was that the earth was a flat disc suspended on pillars in the middle of nothing. Again, that quote fits both archaic and contemporary views, evidence invalidated.

    Have you ever been in the middle of nowhere (far from large cities) and tried counting stars? It's fucking hard. Not to mention, it's not that hard to see that there are a bajillion of them out there. Yet again, it applies to common archaic knowledge as much as it does common contemporary knowledge... it is invalidated as evidence.

    I haven't the slightest idea what "Springs and Fountains of the Sea" could be, and I'm really too lazy to look it up again. I'm throwing that one out too, just because it's too vague to be applied to common knowledge. Explain to me exactly what scientific phenomenon/a it is referring to, and I may allow it back in.

    The ocean currents one is just you spinning it to fit the conclusion you want. "Water Path" could mean anything from ocean current to the migration patterns of a specific species of trout. Or perhaps the routes of you know... fish? People knew about them back them, they traveled paths that happened to be through the sea. Does that mean all fish in the sea travel through ocean currents? No. It's too vague, evidence invalidated.

    The entropy thing is just that things (except for God, who seems to be who the person quoted is talking to) change, which is very true.

    So that leaves you with the thing about the water cycle, which I'll admit is pretty good. Except it's not as much as you think you have.


    About the poll, the first and third responses are fucking retarded, and whoever voted for the first option is just a little too confident. It's been stated in this thread that if God exists, s/he/they do/es on a plane of existence and perception that humans are not privy to. It's impossible to prove something with evidence that you cannot perceive, because you can't perceive it. You might as well be making stuff up, which many people believe the bible does.
     
  19. Elenai

    Elenai

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    That is also true Donut.

    Teh_Ephy: Alot of those are not vague at all. They are quite plain and simple. And being supported by pillars....is suspended by pillars. Not by nothing. And you are leaving out one very important verse. The one with the valleys of the sea. And springs and fountains of the sea....are just that springs and fountains. Just because it isnt described in mathmatical formulae and super enhanced resolution HD camera detail with the scientific names of the specific phenomenon does not mean its vague and archaic.

    Evidence remains valid.

    And turtles: Have you ever actually looked at how God does things in your life? Have you ever actually prayed for salvation?

    Even still I studied the ancient Egyptians for a long time. Including their religion. And I have found that their gods were only blocks of carved stone and gold....and other materials. I have never prayed to them. But they never offered permanent salvation either. And also turtles. How do you know God hasnt answered your prayers. He could have answered quite a few and you just did'nt see it. Afterall gratitude is the shortest lived human emotion. Miracles dont have to come down in a dramatic bolt of light and angelic singing. Many miracles I've experienced have been quiet and yet profoundly life changing.
     
  20. WILL THE ALMIGHTY

    WILL THE ALMIGHTY

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    He hasn't done anything so far to me, and neither turtles it seems.
    This is another thing I hate about religion, sometimes things done by man, or done by natural processes, are actually thought to be caused by this "god", and so people thank him, say that "god" was the one responsible.

    And the comparison between Egyptian religion and Christinaity you offer is very unconvinving.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2007
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