Existence of God

[Hakeem]

Do not choose "Yes, and I can prove it with logic." because you want people to believe in god.
Don't post unless you chose "Yes, and I can prove it with logic." or "No, it's just an invention."
Question:
Do you think god exists?

And you better not post unless you've got more than an opinion. I request such posts removed from this thread.

And it's mainly a poll.

(If possible I would have made the poll open to all, and the thread only to Medivh's Tower. )

EDIT:
In case you are just joining this thread:

This is not about Christianity, the bible, or evolution. It is solely about god's existence.

 

[Karmine]

God is just invention for us to turn to when needed so we can feel better.
But we are just talking to ourself yet but if we make the brain think he is talking to someone else it make you feel better.
Christianity wasn't always here was it now ?

 

[Hakeem]

At the risk of defending another religion, god made the earth and everything for the purpose of religion. It was the plan from the start. It was introduced later.

Also, god isn't just a 'feel good' thing. If you know more about religion, then you'd realize god makes sense other than what Christianity says.

You know, to anyone who looks at Christianity and dismisses religion: look further, Christianity is 1 among many. Don't say you know what you're talking about unless you've studied more than 1 religion.

 

[Karmine]

Who said I haven't....
You can always say god did this god did that... but on the other hand you can also just say Evolution did that and Evolution did this.

Maybe god really exist if he does then he has left earth and started playing with something else.

You're saying maybe that God planned to change monkeys into human ?

Adam and Eva... let me see they were the first two humans... monkeys probally... also how did their children have more children ?

Does then the bible tell you to marry your sister/brother NO!

 

[Hakeem]

I don't know. I haven't read the bible.

God doesn't walk around in our universe, that'd be stupid. God created our universe.

And yes. God made physics. He had it all planned from the beginning. He made monkeys into man. I don't see why he couldn't have done that.

 

[Karmine]

There you said it, Eva and Adam didn't exicts, you denying Christaninty ?

Evolution isn't in Christanity that's the problem. Read the bible and then you can see that it is all lies.

 

[Hakeem]

I'm trying to avoid insulting Christianity. Stop pushing me.
I can deny the bible all I want, you can't force religion, they have to accept that I'm not, and wont become Christian.
Don't complain to me about Christianity, complain to a Christian, but not here.

EDIT: And one more thing, I didn't say Adam and Eve didn't exist.

 

[Turtles]

it's a good point, that Adam and Eve were only two people, yet spawned the whole of the human population. Their children HAD to have either reproduced with eachother or with their parents. then the Bible and the "laws" of what is right turn around and say that it's wrong to do that. Either they're hypocrites, or else they have their story wrong.

i personally don't believe in God, or any higher being that controls everything. I do believe that many people need such a figure to believe in and place faith and trust in. I can't vote for any specific choice, since God is as real as anything else in the sense of being a figure, an icon of perfection for those that follow him/her. I dont believe God is real in the sense of creating everything, manipulating everything and etc.

 

[TheDivineBoss]

I'm not believing in God, or he's/she's a invention, or she/he doesn't exist. No no no I'm completly neutral in those questions. Unless God bombs my school with a metorite then I will believe in him. May God strike me now if I'm wrong! *Zap*

 

[Kuhneghetz]

I do not believe in "God" in any religious way, and I do not believe in any religion at all.
But I do think that there is some kind of a powerful being who's only goal was to create the universe via the Big Bang.
Whatever it is, I think it does not care a shit about religions, or being worshipped or not.

 

[Redeemer59]

I don't believe that God is a sentient being, overlord, magic man in the clouds, judge of souls, etc., I believe he is more of a presence that keeps the circle of life flowing in a circle. When something dies, I believe it comes back, in one form or another. That spider you just squished on your desk could end up getting reincarnated as your sister. I also believe he/she/it (it is probably the best term) is responsible for evolution, which I believe has happened and will continue to do so.

I have a serious 'no-preach' policy for myself. If I EVER say "I'm right, because X X and X. You're wrong, convert, heretic!" or somesuch, it was probably not intentional. I also hold almost no respect for people who try to get me to convert. I know it's how religions grow, but seriously, I believe what I want to believe, not what you want me to believe.

 

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

I don't believe in any of that religious stuff.

Mostly because I think religion has had it's (extremely important) use in the past, but now people should be a bit more rational.
Besides, why would Christianity or any religion be more right than others?

And even if he exists, then he sucks at being God. People are screwing themselves everywhere, and no reaction. That't a pretty long day off if you ask me.

Also, I'm not gonna visit this thread again, nor will you EVER be able to convince me this illusionary "God" exists. So don't bother arguing with me.

 

[GST_Nemisis]

i will believe it when i see it. for all i know we might be in the matrix.

 

[Razorbrain]

Im only going to say:

When you can prove to me he/she/it doesn't exist, I will prove to you he/she/it does.

 

[Elenai]

I can merely look on at the unknowingness of humanity. And nod my head in sadness

 

[Soviet.Kazak]

For what purpose would "God" create us then?

 

[frostwhisper]

I actually agree with Dan's thesis. If there truly was/is a sentient being that caused the Big Band:
1. I would bet my hat collection it didn't do it on purpose.
2. This entity is so different from a human being (in terms of physiology and mind) that it cannot possibly know, or care whether or not we worship it.

 

[Redeemer59]

2. This entity is so different from a human being (in terms of physiology and mind) that it cannot possibly know, or care whether or not we worship it.

I too agree with this part.

 

[Hakeem]

I'm not believing in God, or he's/she's a invention, or she/he doesn't exist. No no no I'm completly neutral in those questions. Unless God bombs my school with a metorite then I will believe in him. May God strike me now if I'm wrong! *Zap*

Why would god go out of his way to prove it to you?

But I do think that there is some kind of a powerful being who's only goal was to create the universe via the Big Bang.

That'd be a god.

Mostly because I think religion has had it's (extremely important) use in the past, but now people should be a bit more rational.

Without souls, death is meaningless. Immortality is not going to happen in your lifetime, so why not just kill you?

Besides, why would Christianity or any religion be more right than others?

Because not all religions oppose fact.

And even if he exists, then he sucks at being God. People are screwing themselves everywhere, and no reaction. That't a pretty long day off if you ask me.

Who knows whether or not god really wants people to be good.

Also, I'm not gonna visit this thread again, nor will you EVER be able to convince me this illusionary "God" exists. So don't bother arguing with me.

Yeah right. Even if you don't come back, I can still tell others why you're wrong.

I can merely look on at the unknowingness of humanity. And nod my head in sadness

If you prefer to think that way, then realize that they choose ignorance.

For what purpose would "God" create us then?

Here's one reason for you: Talking to yourself forever would get boring.

1. I would bet my hat collection it didn't do it on purpose.

Why not?

2. This entity is so different from a human being (in terms of physiology and mind) that it cannot possibly know, or care whether or not we worship it.

Know? Hey, it created the whole thing, I don't see why it couldn't know everything.
Care? Maybe not.

 

[Elenai]

I ponder this one question for everyone.

If God is real. (which I believe, but thats irrelevent to the question)

Then what will happen to you?

 

[donut3.5]

I don't think one way or another, as nothing has truly DISPROVED God, but nothing sufficient has proved God.
--donut3.5--

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

When you can prove to me he/she/it doesn't exist, I will prove to you he/she/it does.

I will prove to you he doesn't exist when you prove to me Santa Claus doesn't exist. The only thing anyone at all can be certain of is that I exist (cogito). Anything else could just be crap for all I know. The only thing we can do about it, in fact, is act like everything we feel, hear, see, taste, and smell is real, and everything else is fake.

 

[Elenai]

Will anyone among you answer my question?

If God is real. (which I believe, but thats irrelevent to the question)

Then what will happen to you?

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

Will anyone among you answer my question?

I will when you consider things vice versa.

 

[Hakeem]

nothing sufficient has proved God.

Not scientifically, but logically.
But not everyone accept logic as fact, little do they realize that logic must be true in order for science to prove anything.

Point being: logical truth is as true as scientific truth.

If God is real [...] Then what will happen to you?

Who knows? God might favor evil people and just not tell us.

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

Not scientifically, but logically.

I'm listening.

 

[SuPa-]

I believe God does not exist. Why? Because it seems too far-fetched. I think people just can't comprehend death and creation and such so they make up something. No one can really think of "death". Since once your life ends there is nothing, but nothing in itself is incomprehensible. What happens to our conscience when we die? I think of it like when we got to sleep and then wake up and feel like we just put our head down for only a second, and then look outside and it's daylight. But instead of waking up you just don't. No consciousness, no feeling, nothing. But it's still hard to think of in my opinion. Overall it seems like a likely reason someone would invent "God." If he is real, I'm gonna sail away to heaven when I die if what the Bible says is true.

 

[Elenai]

I will rephrase.

If the God of the Bible is the real god. Then what do you think will happen to you?

It's just a question....why do you avoid answering it?

EDIT: Supa answered my question, what about the rest of you?

 

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Oh shit, I lied! I'm still visiting this pointless thread.

Because not all religions oppose fact.

Christianity does. Often.

Without souls, death is meaningless. Immortality is not going to happen in your lifetime, so why not just kill you?

Souls=bullshit
When does a soul enter the human body? At what stage opf pregnancy? Where is it? In the brain? There's nothing mystical in there.

I shouldn't kill me because it seems the only purpose we have in life is to live.
God is an exaggerated santa claus, except the gift you get is heaven and the charcoil is hell.
In other words, people need to grow over it. Start being realistic.

An "God" doesn't go out of his time to prove he exists to someone, because he doesn't go out of his time for anything.

So yeah, I'm not going to burn in hell for an opinion either, and if I do, then "God" is unfair.

So someone starts a sect about achieving total human goodness and growing wings and flying to another dimension.
How is this any more believable than an all-powerful entity in the sky with that gratifies human beings by sending them to a place called heaven or a place called hell, which not only hasn't been found or has any trace of it?

 

[Elenai]

Another avoider......And one who seems to dislike Christianity. Perhaps another question to add to the list.

-If the God of the Bible is the real god. Then what do you think will happen to you?

-If you hate Christianity or the concept of God existing....Then why?

Also a note of recomendation...perhaps you should study the Christian Doctrine with an open mind, and its effects on those who follow it (True Christians not those false nut-cases)...before you turn it away as something to be despised.

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

I will rephrase.

If the God of the Bible is the real god. Then what do you think will happen to you?

It's just a question....why do you avoid answering it?

EDIT: Supa answered my question, what about the rest of you?

If the Christian god is, in fact, proven to be real, I would not respect him. A god that promotes slavery of those of neighboring countries and will only reward those who flatter him is not worthy of my respect, no matter how menial mine may be, and no matter how great he may be.

 

[Turtles]

-If the God of the Bible is the real god. Then what do you think will happen to you?

in what sense? Are you asking what we think will happen after we die, or are you asking what we think will happen here and now? in my mind, I cannot think what would happen if (a) God(s) existed, since I would have no idea what sort of God it would be and how it would behave, whether or not it would have a developed personality or not.
If God exists, he/she's on a serious ego trip, convincing half the world that they have to pray to and praise him/her.

 

[Elenai]

You all still fail to answer the question: And Turtles it's both, here and now; and when you die.

 

[Technomancer]

The god of the bible can be interpreted in many different ways depending on your personal viewpoint on the matter, as well as which parts you read (or in the case of reading it all, the parts you read first). He can be seen as both kind and caring to all mankind, yet it also says that he can be jealous.

To Elenai's question, my answer is that I do not know, and it is not my place to worry about it. I like to think I have done my part, but in thinking that, I sometimes think that I am doing the things that I do for the wrong reason, i.e. to get to heaven. The goal in life shouldn't be to do good things because you want to get to heaven, the goal should be to do good in homage to your god, ignoring the promise of rewards in life after death. Sometimes I also believe that my faith wavers, but to believe that I am completely faultless in my strength of belief is perhaps worse than wavering briefly and knowing it. As I said earlier, what I think will happen to me does not and should not matter. It is not up to me to decide.

 

[Elenai]

And so another answer: Though "I do not know" is a very inadequate answer.

Now then what about the rest of you? (don't answer with a "I do not know" or anything of that sort)

 

[Hakeem]

I believe God does not exist. Why? Because it seems too far-fetched. I think people just can't comprehend death and creation and such so they make up something. No one can really think of "death". Since once your life ends there is nothing, but nothing in itself is incomprehensible. What happens to our conscience when we die? I think of it like when we got to sleep and then wake up and feel like we just put our head down for only a second, and then look outside and it's daylight. But instead of waking up you just don't. No consciousness, no feeling, nothing. But it's still hard to think of in my opinion. Overall it seems like a likely reason someone would invent "God." If he is real, I'm gonna sail away to heaven when I die if what the Bible says is true.

Simple minds take refuge in god. More advanced minds have different reasons to believe in god than "I don't want to not exist!"

Oh shit, I lied! I'm still visiting this pointless thread.

Gotcha! /me rubs it in

Christianity does. Often.

I'm not debating Christianity. I think Christianity is wrong. Don't complain about it to me, or in this thread, you're confusing religion with Christianity. It sounds like you don't want anything to do with god or religion because you don't like Christianity.

Souls=bullshit
When does a soul enter the human body? At what stage opf pregnancy? Where is it? In the brain? There's nothing mystical in there.

Pinch yourself. What felt that? Your saying chemical reactions have something that feels? All chemical reactions feel? There is nothing in the brain that accounts for why we experience pain. And who knows when it enter? It doesn't matter when.

I shouldn't kill me because it seems the only purpose we have in life is to live.

My point was: Should it matter that I kill you if there is no such thing as a soul?

God is an exaggerated santa claus, except the gift you get is heaven and the charcoil is hell.
In other words, people need to grow over it. Start being realistic.

Heh, yep. It sounds like you hate religion because of Christianity.

An "God" doesn't go out of his time to prove he exists to someone, because he doesn't go out of his time for anything.

If he does exist, he wouldn't go out of his way.

So yeah, I'm not going to burn in hell for an opinion either, and if I do, then "God" is unfair.

Hey, he gave you a fair chance at deciding what to believe. If you choose to not to believe, and then you get punished. You choose it, so don't complain.

So someone starts a sect about achieving total human goodness and growing wings and flying to another dimension.
How is this any more believable than an all-powerful entity in the sky with that gratifies human beings by sending them to a place called heaven or a place called hell, which not only hasn't been found or has any trace of it?

Heaven, hell, and god aren't in this universe.

If God exists, he/she's on a serious ego trip, convincing half the world that they have to pray to and praise him/her.

God doesn't have anyone to answer to. He can do whatever the hell he feels like.

Now then what about the rest of you? (don't answer with a "I do not know" or anything of that sort)

This is not a thread for that question. This is not a thread about Christianity or the afterlife.

This is a thread solely about the existence of a being, beyond this universe, that created this universe. This universe being the place where we all interact, even if it is the matrix.

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

You all still fail to answer the question: And Turtles it's both, here and now; and when you die.

Fine, here is my answer, because apparently, "you all" is synonymous with "anything that talks within the few minutes that pass by". Assuming the world has been solidly proven the Christian god exists, I would go to hell for not flattering God, and there would be no debating or gray areas, or need for any other logic, as the Bible would define any law made, and the preachers would fill in everything else. It would be something of a constitutional dictatorship.

Now, for a more delicious answer:
I don't know.

 

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

I don't dispise Chritianity. I despise the fact lies have been told, the way the Pope rejects many things of the modern world, such as homosexuals or condoms (which is ridiculous considering it could save Africa, no I'm not kidding).

I don't like how people despise others for not believing in their "god". I despise the nuts who are so strict with religion they enforce it on everyone and start behaving like any non-believer, or homosexual is a terrible demon that must be wiped from the planet.

I think Christianity has saved human existence, when it was first founded, it preached peace, which is extremly important, something the world needed, and it in turn saved lives, made peace.
But when people go kill in the name of their religion, then they go too far. The Crusades were stupid, and now sometimes religion can be an excuse for something.

I despise the Vatican, and all the lies and all the other wrong things they've done and that no on will know they did, all fo rpower, all for having control over more people by forcing them to be christian.

I don't dispise Christianity. To me the Bible is a story book with a powerful and important moral, that people have decided was composed of facts and not stories.
Christianity has had its time. But now it either needs a serious cleanup and change of thought, or to be replaced with something that will again preach peace and kindness, but not necesarily a religion, more of a belief. Something that will again stop people from killing each other.

I think the fact Christianity focuses on Gods and stories/beliefs that are eventually proven wrong by science, and that in time make people doubt is the thing that is causing its silent downfall.

 

[Elenai]

Another answer: Spacebar says that he would go to Hell. (I ignored the "I dont know")

And science has'nt proven that God does not exist my friend. But do not blame Christianity for those who tell lies, make wars, and make false/evil uses of the Bible's teachings. Fore they are not true Christians. They are basically people who hide behind the church door and claim to be Christians.

And homosexuality is not a part of the modern world either (as a new development). That sinful nature has been around for a very long time.

But I digress. Who else among you will answer the question.

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

(I ignored the "I dont know")

=(

Anyhow, the question is technically off topic, as we are debating the existence of god, not hypothesizing what might happen should he exist.

 

[Hakeem]

I don't dispise Chritianity. I despise the fact lies have been told, the way the Pope rejects many things of the modern world, such as homosexuals or condoms (which is ridiculous considering it could save Africa, no I'm not kidding).

Either way, you don't seem very fond of religion because of what Christianity is.

I don't like how people despise others for not believing in their "god". I despise the nuts who are so strict with religion they enforce it on everyone and start behaving like any non-believer, or homosexual is a terrible demon that must be wiped from the planet.

I don't despise you, I think you are a pretty good person. I think you need to also make the distinction between Christianity and religion. There are many religions that make more sense.

now sometimes religion can be an excuse for something.

Lets call those people extremists.

Christianity has had its time. But now it either needs a serious cleanup and change of thought, or to be replaced with something that will again preach peace and kindness, but not necesarily a religion, more of a belief. Something that will again stop people from killing each other.

There are many religions like that. Christianity is not the only religion and does not represent what all religions are like.

And once again:
This is not about Christianity.
Yes, Elenai, that means you too.

 

[Redeemer59]

Elenai, you're starting to make me angry. The sinful nature comment, mostly.

While we cannot prove God doesn't exist, can you prove he does exist? You're saying things like fact, not like opinion. Which is what the thread is about. Opinion.

 

[donut3.5]

Not scientifically, but logically.

Science logically disproves God, but we can't factually.
Science has argued against religion for a veeeery long time.
Here are a few examples:

The Greeks used gods as explanations for natural phenomena.
During the Middle Ages, pimples and other acne was created by sins. We now know that they are a biological process of the body that occurs when skin pores become plugged.
Pre-Enlightenment, people thought the solar system was centered around Earth. Why? Because God made it that way since Earth was the most important planet, since it hosted his greatest creation. Guess what? The Earth revolves around the sun. It's been proven.

All in all, people have just used gods and goddesses as something to explain what they couldn't, as some people still do for the evolution debate. Whether or not it was evolution or God who made human beings is a toss up, until further research is gathered no assumptions can be made. The only reason why I say a god may exist is because even if science proves every phenomena in the world, he could still technically exist, just as more of a feeling than anything.
EDIT: Onto Elenai's question: If God actually exists, I respect him, not his views. Someone who will not accept someone based on their sexual preference, beliefs, and restricts freedom of speech and religion among many other things, and condemns people whom he does not accept seems no better than an absolute dictator.
--donut3.5--

 

[Elenai]

I'm not meaning to make people angry at all. My point on the matter (with my question) is if God exists what will happen. And thus, is it really wise to take the chance of his existance?

It is a valid point.

On the issue of proof...I've given evidence of God's existence time and time again...yet because people are so biased towards it. You never accept it.

And I have been asking questions! How have I stated things as fact. Is it not true that some of you have been stating that God doesnt exist as fact?

 

[Redeemer59]

That sinful nature has been around for a very long time.

You're calling it sinful, rather than saying you believe it to be sinful.

I can only look at the unknowingness of humanity and bow my head in sadness.

Right there, you're saying "God exists, but you don't know about it. It's sad how ignorant people are."

And I find it hard to answer the question truthfully. Half of me says that I'd tell God he's a shitty deity doing a shitty job, due to the rampant poverty, greed, hunger, corruption, crime, hate, disease, and disasters and he isn't doing shit besides trying to get people to spread his name. The other half would say that he needs to tell people what Jesus' words really meant in the first place. Love thy neighbor, and such. Nowadays, people are saying "God hates fags!" "God says Christianity is the only religion. Everybody else is doomed to hell unless they repent." and such. While those examples are radical, they get the point across, I hope.

And also, here's a question for YOU, Elenai. If God created everything, why does Evil exist? Why does Sin exist? Why was Lucifer able to continue existing after being thrown from Heaven?

 

[Hakeem]

Science logically disproves God, but we can't factually.

No, science can't disprove anything, it can't say pigs don't fly because they might have just not discovered it yet.

Science has argued against religion for a veeeery long time.

Once again, I see that someone fails to understand that all religions are different. I know some religions that don't contradict science, in fact, they support it.

And also, here's a question for YOU, Elenai. If God created everything, why does Evil exist? Why does Sin exist? Why was Lucifer able to continue existing after being thrown from Heaven?

A good question indeed. I would answer it, but I would like to see Elenai explain this one. Well Elenai? Can you answer?

 

[Elenai]

Redeemer: Excuse me but...That quote is wrong.

And the reason evil and sin exist is because:
1: Satan's rebellion against God.
2: Because man decide to rebel against God also, and thus doomed himself to Hell if he doesnt repent.
3: Because Satan is going to experience his judgment in the end. Satan has yet to pay for his crimes against God. And in the end God will basically put him in prison. Thus God let him live so that he can pay for his crimes. Other than that angels (even fallen ones) are able to exist outside of Heaven or Hell.

But we should probably not discuss Christian Doctrine in this thread. Because I dont want to get in trouble....Again.

EDIT: unless Hakeem allows.

 

[Hakeem]

God can't control Satan? So God is not all powerful?

 

[Elenai]

Of course God can control Satan. But he doesnt because Satan still has free will. God is just waiting, countering Satan's influence with his word, giving people the choice of life in Christ or death in their sin. And in the end he will judge Satan and imprisson him, along with those who do not accept the gift of....what is comparable to a governers pardon.

God will not interfere with free will. He will lay choices out for people. If they choose to break the law (thus sin) they will be judged. But if they choose to accept the pardon. They will be saved from judgement and enter heaven when they die. God also places the Holy spirit in those who are saved. So that they do not use salvation as an excuse to sin. Because the Holy Spirit convicts the saved person when they sin, so that they will ask for forgiveness.

 

[Hakeem]

So why does good God let evil happen?