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Reforged Dont make mods, boycott Reforged [EULA Update]

Discussion in 'Patch & Reforged Discussion' started by Nudl9, Jan 29, 2020.

  1. Augustus

    Augustus

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    Wait a second, doesn't this mean we can't have a classic version of DOTA with Reforged models? Doesn't Valve own the rights to the name, character names, even level design?
     
  2. Blarto

    Blarto

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    That depends on the result of the court settlement Blizzard had with Valve. If i remember correctly blizzard has the right to maintain DOTA on Warcraft3 platform but not outside of it. The rest of the domain is owned by Valve.
     
  3. DracoL1ch

    DracoL1ch

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    dota and defence of the ancients are free to use as a names for warcraft 3 custom maps, as written on valve's policies page
     
  4. hexhound

    hexhound

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    Who here has a law degree and is there a consensus amongst those who do?

    I'm in the same situation as @HerrDave, although with less time invested. Having spent the last 1-1.5 years on a project that is only now looking complete, i feel like i've stupidly painted myself into a corner and must now decide whether to look for alternative development platforms or just give up on my passion.

    Now i'm gonna bring up a slightly off-topic point, but i think it's relevant because popularity is the key here, i think everyone agrees maps that don't get much play won't have copyright problems. Is it even possible to popularize a comp-style map anymore now that bots are gone, and ladders and self-sustained communities with them? I think the optimal solution here would be an open/non-draconic platform that does what WC3 did for us in 2017, before hosting bots were removed.
     
  5. SpiritTauren

    SpiritTauren

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    I'll be searching for such a platform as well. Please, could you /pm me (and any other interested party), if you ever come across such a platform. I'd do the same.
     
  6. Duke

    Duke

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    How is it in starcraft 2, do they actually enforce the ban on copyrighted materials?
     
  7. Jayborino

    Jayborino

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    At the risk of garnering hate from all of Hive, I will point out that the first point has always existed since the beginning of the world editor, why is everyone making a stink about it now?

    The reality is, you're using their game and platform, does it really matter if they own it or not? No one starts making maps to get rich. It has happened exactly once with DotA and anyone who thinks they could do that too is probably a delusional, grandoise narcissist. The old UMS scene in Brood War and Custom Games in WC3 had some lightning in a bottle, but no person with a normal grip on reality opens the world editor and thinks "time to make some money today".

    So Blizzard owns the things you make with their game. WHO CARES? If the only way you're able to compete in the highly saturated gaming industry is leaning on a tool provided to you by Blizzard, then you won't be getting very far anyway.

    The other two points exist to protect Blizzard legally from being sued by other copyright holders. IP is a serious matter that is easily litigious and I don’t think protecting their own company from legal risk makes them wrong.

    I'll also point out that this EULA matches StarCraft 2, but guess what StarCraft 2 piloted? PAID MODS! The two pilot creators confirmed their cut was quite generous as well. Sure, they didn't expand on it because the Arcade playerbase is simply too small at this point, but it was tried. The EULA is there to protect Blizzard (see Blizzard v Valve over DotA), not to destroy your dreams - this seems like an elementary implication.

    Bottom line: This issue is probably the dumbest one to get up in arms about if you're trying to be taken seriously. Considering how poorly the release went, keep bringing focus to the fact that the 1.32 patch broke or outright removed existing features that were otherwise working just fine.
     
  8. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    People are actually worried about their intellectual property outside the World Editor afterwards in what this EULA is concerned, not making money with Warcraft III maps.
     
  9. Amigoltu

    Amigoltu

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  10. Drake53

    Drake53

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    Really?

    Blizzard cares, why else would they insist on owning everything you make with their game editors.
     
  11. hexhound

    hexhound

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    Sure thing, will do. I'm currently looking at a platform called Godot, but i have no idea what it can do yet and there aren't any RTS-like games in the list of showcases yet.

    Godot Engine - Free and open source 2D and 3D game engine
     
  12. Jayborino

    Jayborino

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    Again, this is clearly to protect themselves legally because of the DotA lawsuit - what would expect them to do after that? And that is a very particular case because that was a fight over multi-million dollar IP. They aren't coming for anyone's fan fiction...

    I know it's unpopular of me to say this, but there needs to be a reality check here. If you honestly think whatever you're working on will warrant legal action from Blizzard... 99.999% of people are fooling themselves into thinking they are way more important than they actually are. Fun, engaging, skillful, makes people happy? Yes, very much, many maps and projects here accomplish that and we all are grateful for it, but multi-million dollar products that warrant litigation they are not.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2020
  13. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    :) way to kill people's dreams.
     
  14. Jayborino

    Jayborino

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    Exactly. If your dream is to make a living from a custom map then wake the fuck up and either start learning a real development tool or treat it as a hobby like almost every healthy individual is already doing.

    I'd also like to point out that Direct Strike has a Patreon. Made by Tya, it's hugely popular and possibly the most played SC2 Arcade map. No action has been taken against it. Hell, they made a premium version of it into a paid mod and split revenue with Tya.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2020
  15. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    That was not the point.
    Example: I make a map with a story of mine. I get better at writing, decide to write a book on that story.
    Example 2: I create original music and put it into a Warcraft III map. I then decide to sell that music as an album.
     
  16. hexhound

    hexhound

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    Of course what you said is true, but what a silly argument to make. Only a miniscule fraction of all soccer players who dream of going pro ever make any money playing the game, does this mean it would be okay for the owners of the largest soccer league to force contracts on players that include them owning all their future earnings, as thanks for providing the platform?

    The comparison is a little stretched, but hopefully you see what i'm getting at. It matters a lot to the people who fuel their projects with dreams of it blowing up, it matters a lot to the few that actually have a chance of blowing up, and the aggregate effect on the modding community could end up mattering a lot.
     
  17. Jayborino

    Jayborino

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    You're misapplying copyright law to fit this argument. Explain to me with your understanding of copyright law how a case would go where Blizzard makes the claim that your hit song, which you composed outside of the world editor using different software than theirs, is theirs now because it was used in a map you made using their editor? If anything, when you copyright your mega-top 40 hit track, it being in the map is against the EULA, not the other way around.
     
  18. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    Then, I guess ActiBlizz won't mind me making my own game that I've coded in the World Editor but this time without the World Editor.

    Also, don't doublepost please.
     
  19. Jayborino

    Jayborino

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    Yes, this has happened many, many times, thank you for explaining my own arguement. DotA was a loophole because it was called DotA (read the case btw) and not something else like the plethora of other MOBA's that spawned from it that did not lead to litigation.

    Look, I'm here saying just calm down, this is not going to affect anyone who is acting concerned, and I've provided plenty of examples. It's supposed to help soothe the nerves, but instead I think people just want to be unhappy and frustrated.
     
  20. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    I hope it's like that then.
    For me, it's simpler since I'm not in the US but still I want to take precautions.