Patch back? Future of modding?

[Amigoltu]

Hello all. I believe it is safe to say now, that...

Reforged is a lost cause.
It may have been supremely silly of me, but I had one last little hope, that fully released Reforged would, almost magically, be actually good, unlike the BETA. But it seems, that it is just as bad as the majority of the forums here, and the official Blizz forums have been suspecting.

Considering the new EULA, that limits what we can and cannot create, in terms of custom maps, as well as the apparent lack of option to properly play Custom Games or Custom Campaigns, not to mention all the bugs, Reforged is unplayable, and hardly will ever be. Even if the bugs are fixed later, Custom Single Player Gaming is killed because of need of constant Internet Access, the EULA will still be there to bite us in the arse, and so on, and so forth.

Patch back to the older patches
... It seems like the only viable option now, if you want to enjoy modding WC3 again. But it seems that even that option is not provided by Blizz. Is it even possible to do, without resorting to using pirate sites? Is it possible to patch back to 1.29? Patch 1.29 seems to deliver the new Editor functions, increased Editor limits (map size, units, doodads, etc.), and widescreen support, while not having any of the bugs, or other stability issues of patches 1.31 and further.


How about the community?
Even supposing it is possible to patch back, can you play online then? Can we host our own games online? If not, what happens to the WC3 modding communities?

 

[alexsa2015sa]

To channel all that anger productively: has anyone anywhere already raised an idea of making a totally-not-warcraft-3-engine. Yes, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results (look up Freecraft), but bear with me. Also mind rule 10 - since the point is, is it legal in the first place? And if it's not, then why in particular and can we argue that away?

Because most of what we call "WC3 modding" happens in .w3x, .w3m and w3n formats.

If I understand correctly, MPQ format of maps is so far unprotected, changed less than everything else over years, and you can play them freely... if you have an engine which can parse this format that is. WC3 engine has no alternatives, but let's face it - it doesn't really matter what engine you use, as long as it supports the format properly; custom games have been creating using *the format*, not the WC3 engine itself (it just gives us options). Having a new free engine does come with considerable perks of contributors being able to optimise it from scratch too (a lot of problems WC3 are because it's old); downsides - well everything else.

Is it legal, if an exception to never use Blizzard's original maps is introduced (to be on safe side, but not defeating the point) but use only people's custom content? Because this means they will have to enforce their ownership on every single map (and yes - I know the simplest response is making encrypted format, furthering of server-side-only content, but let's don't get ahead of idea itself). Especially if mapmakers themselves don't agree with Blizzard's position.

...personally, my question is, do I care if it's legal when I want to play old content I paid for that they don't officially support anymore?

 

[Amigoltu]

Is it legal, if an exception to never use Blizzard's original maps is introduced (to be on safe side, but not defeating the point) but use only people's custom content?

Now, I am by no means an expert, but I believe that Blizzard owns the file-types MPQ and mdx. So it would possibly be illegal to use those on another game even if that game, and models, were made by you from scratch.

...personally, my question is, do I care if it's legal when I want to play old content I paid for that they don't officially support anymore?

Exactly. Does it even matter? Ripping wow models, for example, was illegal for the longest time, and yet, it was widely done regardless.

At the same time, I would ask - why reinvent the wheel with a new engine? We already have one. The way I see it, patching back to 1.29 or earlier is the way to go.

 

[~El]

Now, I am by no means an expert, but I believe that Blizzard owns the file-types MPQ and mdx. So it would possibly be illegal to use those on another game even if that game, and models, were made by you from scratch.

The status of format ownership from a legal standpoint is not clear-cut. Bear in mind, though, that a lot of open source tools exist that work with proprietary formats, including creating files of those formats - docx, psd, etc. all have some level of support in free open source programs. It also heavily depends on the jurisdiction.

Even if it is "illegal" (which is unlikely in all jurisdictions), you can jump through technical hoops like relying on another person's open source work - like stormlib - for the implementation of MPQ reading/writing. You could go a step further and release a converter that takes in MPQs and converts them to another format that your game uses outside of your game, and just tell your users to use that.

At the same time, I would ask - why reinvent the wheel with a new engine? We already have one. The way I see it, patching back to 1.29 or earlier is the way to go.

That's a far more important question to ask. Recreating all the quirks (and bugs!) of WC3 for full (or even partial!) map and gameplay compatibility is going to be... an uneasy task, and a very challenging one, and the benefits are dubious at best.

A new engine that simply supports WC3 assets and maybe some basic JASS/GUI usage (for campaigns/simple customs) and new natives could potentially be much more interesting. But I doubt it would ever gain any level of popularity to be significant, or worth the effort.

 

[Blarto]

I never hopped on the LUA/NewNatives bandwagon. I have version 1.26 installed and do all development there. Complete IDE and all (Eclipse+loosefile system for version control, long before blizzard added that option natively). As it stands maps produced in that version are compatible with pretty much everything.

Version 1.26 is not subject to new EULA and it is fully offline, so they cannot control what you can and cannot do with it. Worst case is they can ban you from bnet 2.0 access once they start enforcing on actual users to host the maps. For that to happen they have to have evidence (not legal evidence, w/e convinces them personally) to link your bnet account and your modding activity. This is next to impossible unless you actively show your ass to them and ask to get kicked. The only other feasible scenario is they can police the users trying to upload/play your map.

Nobody knows how the enforcement will take place though. My speculation is that it will be like galaxy editor's publishing model sooner or later. We probably have less than 1 year of modding left before that takes place. Best case scenario is that they lose a TON of money on this project and just leave us alone, cutting all staff (enforcement included).

For us modders, this isn't about creative rights btw, its the right to publish/play your map on bnet. Blizzard can take all the rights and shove it. All most of us want is the ability to share their work without harassment and get credit (monetary or not).

Without bnet wc3 and its custom games are worthless (just learn webGL and do your game in Javascript, the technology is up there and everyone has a browser).

 

[Retria]

I am staying on my backed 1,27 until they reinvent custom campaign button in reforged.

And even then, I do not think I will use reforged editor if it disables opening maps in older W3

 

[Jarrot]

there is a way for upgrade from 1.27 now?I have an italian copy (i hate the new voice in reforge classic) but if i try the classic upgrade ask 28gb so is reforged how can i make that?
at least for have widescreen support

or at least change the language for a different version (i have a 1.29 eng)

 

[Retera]

I am coding the game of Warsmash until they make me stop. I have high hopes for Warsmash. I refuse to be an illegal distributor of Blizzard content. Warsmash is just some java code that plays a game on top of a Warcraft installation. If HiveWE is allowed, why isn't Warsmash allowed?
Most likely nobody will play it or at least not for another year until it is actually good. I'm not too worried.

I use the Warcraft III Alpha UI because I must evolve from Alpha naturally.

 

[Blarto]

I am coding the game of Warsmash until they make me stop.

After watching some of your videos the other day, I must say you are one crazy mofo (In a good way!).

They shouldn't have any legal case against you (they can still bully you with lawyers though) as long as you're just making an emulator that just so happens to work with Warcraft assets that you present no claim over. But it depends on your country's laws as well as actual lawyer consultation (I'm not one).

 

[Amigoltu]

Without bnet wc3 and its custom games are worthless (just learn webGL and do your game in Javascript, the technology is up there and everyone has a browser).

Really now? Many of the custom maps created for WC3 were for offline single player. Also, we can play the games on LAN either way. Personally, I would be interested in finding a way to host online games ourselves, instead of relying on bnet, or trying to make a new game altogether.

 

[Blarto]

Well if you don't use bnet and make maps exclusively for single player, this new EULA doesnt affect you as long as you use OldCraft3 (1.26-1.28), so yeah.

As for LAN play, OldCraft is still possible. The other platforms are hounded by Blizzard. To this date I only know of GameRanger and M16 (Garena closed, M16 is korean only). Oh and there is reportably a Russian platform.