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Are You going to Sell your maps?

Are you going to sell maps?

  • $$$$

    Votes: 36 16.9%
  • Some Maps

    Votes: 38 17.8%
  • No

    Votes: 40 18.8%
  • LOLWUT? HELL NO

    Votes: 99 46.5%

  • Total voters
    213
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Level 4
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Dec 14, 2004
Messages
85
It seems pretty obvious to me that the only maps with any degree of success would be free. I don't think we'll see many maps that are pay for maps that are good unless they have the feature set as only the person hosting needs to pay for the map. Other than that the free market has too many advantages over the pay market.....

I just got to thinking, I've changed my guess to pay games with a free version are going to be the most famous of maps.

Also my guesses are the oppisate for the first year of release, I think it will be hard to find a REALLY good free map the first year, unless maybe they went with the strategy i mentioned.
 
Level 14
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Jun 27, 2009
Messages
1,381
The gameplay of a dotalike map doesn't appeal me at all, but that is just an opinion.

Exactly what you are saying, I believe Blizzard wants more of "mod" like maps. See it as you pay for their engine, and then you use their marketplace to sell the map/mod, if it is the right standard
"mod" like maps?
I think, Blizzard wants the map to be INDEPENDENT of Wc3.
DotA : Just another AoS that is popular, and has lots of heroes. What makes DotA popular ? I guess advertising. What makes other AoSes fail? DotA..And DotA is not good. If it became premium, and IceFrog started selling it, other AoSes will be more popular. DotA will be forgotten..
Compare it to other map-types:
RPG's :
TKoK : Still dependent a bit of Wc3, but it leaves it far away and reaches a MUCH BETTER degree, when you come to inventory, talents, attributes, etc.
It is not much popular in Garena (that's where I play) because of other RPG's that do not make sense. (Twilight's Eve is an exemple, I respect every mapmaker and their maps, but..)

Twilight's Eve we were talking about : a bit less dependent of Wc3, cause of the custom models, maybe. But the gameplay is totally weird.. You reach level 30, go back to 0. Reach 60/70, go back to 0. Reach a lot, again start from 0. Reach 240, start from 0 Then you go do imba dungeons in one second even though level 1 -> 20. Reach 300, go do IMP's...It is so much popular in Garena cause of it showed up long ago.

Now other types:
Diablo III Warcraft : A great map. Less dependent of Wc3 than Twilight's eve, much less.. Fight in a greatly designed dungeon, that makes you enter the world of Diablo... Fight powerful bosses to get through. But I don't know if it becomes a premium map, since it depends of a Blizzard game.(Diablo)

Hmmm.. Which of these would you say it can become a premium map? haha..

Sincerely,
~Herian
 
Level 23
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
2,482
General Frank? I thought that was Illidan Evil X

Maps like Illidan has made, such as Mass Destruction would really fit as a premium map more, in my opinion. He shows that you can do incredible things with wc3 and Jass (sure, I bet the others are too, but I'm not as much impressed,, but oh well TKoK is a good example I guess, but it doesn't appeal me either :>). I dont think you can judge it based on if the idea is already taken or not. If you make a battlefield 2 like fps, why would it not have potential of being a premium map?
 
Level 31
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
6,306
Actually I do agree with the opinion that the maps Blizzard expects are of complete custom content, making full use of the engine, and a large amount of content with creative gameplay. DotA is just a simple AoS -.-, and it is also lacking in the content department. Also, it's gameplay is terrible, it requires virtually no skill, and the most you do in it is memorize all those damn recipes. Yes, I hated the game ever since I tried it for about a minute ; D.

Final Fantasy games would probably be above the bar required for premium map. Think more along the lines of Toadcop.

http://tcx.xgm.ru/

I believe that that would qualify as a premium map if it had custom models and icons. It's pretty much an entire interface, combat system, etc all coded from scratch. It's hard to believe that it's actually wc3 and playing it reminds you of a 3rd person shooter mode of Unreal Tournament or something to that nature.

But that is in respect to wc3... the actual games necessary for SC2 will be higher as what i just linked is much easier to do in SC2 than it is to do in wc3.


Now, if I was seriously going to put that much effort to making a map like that... number one, I'd probably need a team because it'd be a lot of work... sure, you can possibly pull it off solo, but think of an indie game in comparison to a high end commercial game. Number two, I would most def sell it, lol...

Other people who continue to push the envelopes are Azlier, Defiance, jesus4lyf, and well, yea =). I do it too, but I spend so much time optimizing crap and developing frameworks to make maps that I never actually release anything =P.


Now, rather than going up in arms at capitalism, you need to compare this scenario with the current status of the internet. There are a lot of free things and there are a lot of not free things. What's the big deal? Some of the free things are also a lot better than the not free things, lol.

Also, as these would probably be indie game quality, the prices would be pretty cheap... probably $2.50 to $10.00 a map. The prices you guys are expecting are a lot lower than what will probably happen. They aren't going to be as cheap as iphone apps because the market is going to be quite a lot smaller than iphone market and a lot more time and effort has to go into these maps to make them premium quality =). Again, refer to toadcop's map x5.

The prices I just mentioned are a bit less than those typical of indie games that are running on cheapo to medium game engines as well (affordable for an individual, like $100 to $3,500.00 or free).


Guys just need to face the reality =). The maps you guys are probably thinking of right now don't compare to the maps Blizzard is actually expecting. Again refer to the scale of toadcop's map in relation to being done on wc3 x5.

And how many of your regular map makers are even capable of making a map like that? Not many... only people capable in the community are in the very top branches: the regular coders or the old pros. Guess what... most of them don't even make maps or have wc3, lol. They spend their time coding for fun, heh, or they code a billion things in preparation for making a map. A prime example is jesus4lyf coding around 17 systems I think for a map and never getting to the actual map, haha.

The reason for this is because the quality of the maps get so high that finishing them takes forever, so the map maker never gets to it : P. Again, you are probably always looking at team projects until we get some high grade resources out there for SC2 =). Also, keep in mind capitalist market... it could be possible that those high grade resources start costing $$. Also, the next preprocessor might cost $$ as well. You never know =). Also yes, there will be another preprocessor as blizzard once again failed to make the language OO -.-, lol.
 
Level 4
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Messages
85
Actually I do agree with the opinion that the maps Blizzard expects are of complete custom content, making full use of the engine, and a large amount of content with creative gameplay. DotA is just a simple AoS -.-, and it is also lacking in the content department. Also, it's gameplay is terrible, it requires virtually no skill, and the most you do in it is memorize all those damn recipes. Yes, I hated the game ever since I tried it for about a minute ; D.

You are INSANE if you don't think that DOTA is what Blizzard is looking for in paid for custom maps. I've been watching the Job boards at blizzard.com and a while back when they were still hiring level designers they were mentioning experience in the moding communities were a plus and then in parentheses they said(Possibly anyone from DotA hint hint). People who worked on DotA are who they are looking to hire and that means they see the map as the type they would like to sell.

I'm also willing to be you have no idea the shear amount of work and money that goes into creating a game like dota. They created the whole game as a prototype for commercial use and it cost them money along the way and took a lot of work to make.(The game was a prototype for League of Legends just FYI).
 
You are INSANE if you don't think that DOTA is what Blizzard is looking for in paid for custom maps. I've been watching the Job boards at blizzard.com and a while back when they were still hiring level designers they were mentioning experience in the moding communities were a plus and then in parentheses they said(Possibly anyone from DotA hint hint). People who worked on DotA are who they are looking to hire and that means they see the map as the type they would like to sell.

you're insane if you think that blizzard said that dota, in wc3 standards, is NOT high enough quality for premium maps just for fun or something
they said it quite specifically, i don't see any room for mistaking what they said. it's basically, "if wc3 had premium maps dota would not be of enough quality for them"
 
Level 13
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Messages
477
DotA is fairly close, however, and could feasibly be turned into premium map material with the appropriate amount of work put into it.

Anyway, a map that could, if it used a proprietary engine rather than SC2's, be a feasibly commercial production (something sellable), it's worth being a premium map. Otherwise, no.
 
Level 12
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Messages
793
DotA sucks too hard to ever become premium anything.

Anyways, one thing that defeats the purpose of selling maps is people e-mailing them to each other, or using websites to upload them, like mapgnome.org, they can't remove any maps that are uploaded. So someone could upload a map that is suppose to be paid for, and what's stopping someone from downloading it? Or all of SC2 from downloading it? Doesn't it only take one person to buy it and then distribute it for free?

So all in all, selling a map would maybe generate a little income, but eventually everyone would have it before the map maker made any real cash from it.
 
Level 6
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Aug 29, 2008
Messages
134
DotA sucks too hard to ever become premium anything.

Anyways, one thing that defeats the purpose of selling maps is people e-mailing them to each other, or using websites to upload them, like mapgnome.org, they can't remove any maps that are uploaded. So someone could upload a map that is suppose to be paid for, and what's stopping someone from downloading it? Or all of SC2 from downloading it? Doesn't it only take one person to buy it and then distribute it for free?

So all in all, selling a map would maybe generate a little income, but eventually everyone would have it before the map maker made any real cash from it.

I am wondering why everyone seems to want Sc2 being bad.
Use common sense please >_>

Blizzard is obviously making some protection. Like condoms.
Example: You can't make two WoW accounts on the same key-code. Right?

Btw, ignore the condoms part. I just wanted to troll a little XD


EDIT: DotA doesn't suck. It is a well made AoS map. No, i'm not playing DotA.
 
Level 6
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Messages
224
DOTA sucks.... lets explore that comment.

i've said it. i've meant it. i honestly think DOTA is the best AOS in existence. i don't like AOS's but i don't hate them. why do i hate DOTA? BECAUSE THERE"S ENOUGH DOTA GAMES TO CREATE IT'S OWN DAMN CHANNEL. no us east. us DOTA. at least then someone might host colony builders or ww1 ish or something.

i would imagine that at least a few people feel the same way. DOTA is hated because it is a monopoly.
 
Level 27
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Jul 6, 2008
Messages
11,325
The UDK does actually come with loads of content. And no, you don't.

Sorry, my bad...

DOTA sucks.... lets explore that comment.

i've said it. i've meant it. i honestly think DOTA is the best AOS in existence. i don't like AOS's but i don't hate them. why do i hate DOTA? BECAUSE THERE"S ENOUGH DOTA GAMES TO CREATE IT'S OWN DAMN CHANNEL. no us east. us DOTA. at least then someone might host colony builders or ww1 ish or something.

i would imagine that at least a few people feel the same way. DOTA is hated because it is a monopoly.

Sorry, your bad. Its not a place to speak about Dota!
 
Level 12
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Jan 19, 2008
Messages
793
Shread-Er, I never bashed Starcraft, so take your own advice.
Use common sense please >_>

I really don't see people programming codes into premium maps or something that only allow people who've bought the map to play it, and others who got it through other means unable to play it. It just seems that this 'grand' idea of theirs will backfire and people will be upset over their map not generating any income when they were so selfish in the first place to whore their map out.

I'm not bashing SC2 or anything, just this feature they want to put in just sounds too ridiculous to even take any foot hold on its players. Personally, I MAY get SC2, but as of now, I'm perfectly comfortable making maps for WC3 until one day within the far future that ever a WC4 comes out, hopefully Blizzard realizes they've stripped, beaten, killed, burned, and raped (Yes in that order.) the Warcraft Lore, and decide to start back where they left off in TFT and expand upon the Warcraft universe. Anyways, all in all, to get back in topic, I see the map selling feature to be a big failure.

Think of all of the little whinebags complaining over/to battle.net because Blizzard rejected their Naruto map/equally as shitty map, or when someone makes a decent enough map and maybe only one hundred people buy it and ten thousand others get it for free from e-mail or a map hosting site.
 
Level 12
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Aug 3, 2005
Messages
745
I think its alot more likely you'd first need your map out for a good few months with lots of fans before you could consider 'selling it' or atleast only allowing 'buyers' to play the new versions.

But anyways personally it depends alot on how much effort I'd put into it and how serious about the project I'd be. If there was the possibility of a semi decent revenue then why not I say? Alot more motvation to say wholey committed to regularly keeping the project updated with new content.
 
Level 6
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
134
Shread-Er, I never bashed Starcraft, so take your own advice.


I really don't see people programming codes into premium maps or something that only allow people who've bought the map to play it, and others who got it through other means unable to play it. It just seems that this 'grand' idea of theirs will backfire and people will be upset over their map not generating any income when they were so selfish in the first place to whore their map out.

I'm not bashing SC2 or anything, just this feature they want to put in just sounds too ridiculous to even take any foot hold on its players. Personally, I MAY get SC2, but as of now, I'm perfectly comfortable making maps for WC3 until one day within the far future that ever a WC4 comes out, hopefully Blizzard realizes they've stripped, beaten, killed, burned, and raped (Yes in that order.) the Warcraft Lore, and decide to start back where they left off in TFT and expand upon the Warcraft universe. Anyways, all in all, to get back in topic, I see the map selling feature to be a big failure.

Think of all of the little whinebags complaining over/to battle.net because Blizzard rejected their Naruto map/equally as shitty map, or when someone makes a decent enough map and maybe only one hundred people buy it and ten thousand others get it for free from e-mail or a map hosting site.

I didn't read through everything that you wrote, so i might have overlooked something. (I'm kinda in a rush atm...)


I seriously hope they'll remake Warcraft lore again. But this is a Starcraft forum. So lets talk about that instead :)

As i already said. Blizzard isn't that stupid to not make their maps protected.
It's already possible to protect a War3 map, so it only can be opened in War3, and not the editor.

My guess is, that if Blizzard would make a similar thing-y that removed the files for the editor, and added some thing that authenticated (i don't really know what that means) with the Battle.net servers.

This authenticator (okay, i lied a little) should check if the user currently active (the one opening the map), owns the map, and if the user owns this map, accepts it.

Off course such thing would be able to be hacked/cracked. But so is other games, and so what? (Unreal Tournament, Warcraft, Portal, Half-Life, others etc.)
 
Level 5
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Oct 16, 2009
Messages
137
ok so maps can be sold right, now when your playing WC3 or SC and you log on to battle net and you join a game that you never played before you automatically download that game from the host. how will this be effected?

i didnt read this whole post as its 9 pages long and didnt want to read that much spam just for one answer so sorry if its already been said here.
 
Level 6
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Messages
134
ok so maps can be sold right, now when your playing WC3 or SC and you log on to battle net and you join a game that you never played before you automatically download that game from the host. how will this be effected?

i didnt read this whole post as its 9 pages long and didnt want to read that much spam just for one answer so sorry if its already been said here.

My guess is that if doesn't have the map, you'll just get kicked, or prompted with something.
 
Level 1
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Mar 5, 2010
Messages
4
I don't think selling maps is going to work very well, the reason is pretty simple.

I'll use DotA as an example because it's very popular. Once upon a time DotA wasn't anything special, there were hundreds of various AoS maps of various popularity and DotA just slowly grew bigger until it became THE AoS map and not only that, it's more played then most other maps put together. This is because of a self reinforcing loop where you're the most likely to play the same map that everyone else is playing.

Now imagine that if DotA had a $5 fee, now you'd be faced with the choose of either playing one of the hundreds of other good AoS maps for free or paying $5 to play DotA, while I don't know about everyone else, for me personally that would be an easy choice, I'd play one of the other AoS maps because while DotA may be better, it's not that much better. Assuming that other people think like me, that means that any map that tries to go pay 2 play will quickly die in popularity to other maps that do the same thing for free.

The exception could possibly be a well made campaign, this hasn't been a very big thing in WC3 but maybe just maybe the marketplace might make it more popular.
 
Level 12
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793
Just occured to me that when one/more game(s) does/do become good enough to become premium, it/they will quite possibly populate the game list like DotA does on WC, so all you see are these people being hosted by bots or other hosts or something, where no free games of any decent quality are being host.

Anyways, I've already said my two cents.
 
Level 12
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Jan 19, 2008
Messages
793
Wow. I noticed pretty much all of you are very stuck up with your money. You guys probably spend 99 cents on a song on iTunes that will provide you with around four minutes of enjoyment, yet you won't even pay half that for a map that can give you 30 minutes to two hours of fun?
 
Level 11
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Nov 12, 2006
Messages
765
Yea I assume 2 options would simply come up:
- Pay to 'Play' the map (A one off payement)
- Go back to game search

Pay to Play is a very interesting idea. Perhaps 1 play for a certain high quality map would be like 1-3 cents, and to buy the map and be able to play it without paying for it again (including future versions) would be like 20-60 cents.

Wow. I noticed pretty much all of you are very stuck up with your money.

I agree, people here APPEAR to be extremely cheap.
 
Level 5
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201
Lol, you're all sooo much cheap, aren't you looking atleast once at your reply and think about the stuff you've wrote there before actualy submiting...guys, you aren't paying for Blizard premium gums, but for maps, have you thought atleast a minute about the REAL cost of those premium maps, there are probably going to be atleast two or three dollars, actualy I don't know either but WTF with the 1-3 cents and max 10 cents, man you're all so crazy, this is Blizzard we are talking about, there not just gona give away awesome maps for free, why do they bother making premium maps when they are going to sell them for 5 cents or when everyone are so cheap and make a profit of 5$ max.

Ask yourselfs those questions and reply with a reasonable post so we can actualy learn something or atleast know why.
 
Level 11
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Messages
765
Lol, you're all sooo much cheap, aren't you looking atleast once at your reply and think about the stuff you've wrote there before actualy submiting...guys, you aren't paying for Blizard premium gums, but for maps, have you thought atleast a minute about the REAL cost of those premium maps, there are probably going to be atleast two or three dollars, actualy I don't know either but WTF with the 1-3 cents and max 10 cents, man you're all so crazy, this is Blizzard we are talking about, there not just gona give away awesome maps for free, why do they bother making premium maps when they are going to sell them for 5 cents or when everyone are so cheap and make a profit of 5$ max.

Ask yourselfs those questions and reply with a reasonable post so we can actualy learn something or atleast know why.

I dont care about Blizzard making maps. More then 99% of what you see in Custom Games for Warcraft 3 is user-created. So Blizzard doesn't need to be making any maps.... So im not quite sure what your trying to say in your post. Perhaps you should be the one checking what YOU write? This thread is all about map makers selling their own maps, not Blizzard selling Blizzard maps. Though I'll point out, if their are premium maps, I bet some of the money will go to Blizzard. I only say that because thats how the Apple App store works. But I may be wrong.
 
Level 12
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Messages
745
Lol, you're all sooo much cheap, aren't you looking atleast once at your reply and think about the stuff you've wrote there before actualy submiting...guys, you aren't paying for Blizard premium gums, but for maps, have you thought atleast a minute about the REAL cost of those premium maps, there are probably going to be atleast two or three dollars, actualy I don't know either but WTF with the 1-3 cents and max 10 cents, man you're all so crazy, this is Blizzard we are talking about, there not just gona give away awesome maps for free, why do they bother making premium maps when they are going to sell them for 5 cents or when everyone are so cheap and make a profit of 5$ max.

Ask yourselfs those questions and reply with a reasonable post so we can actualy learn something or atleast know why.

3 cents is peanuts yes, but get a couple thousand people paying to play your map and it becomes a different story.
 
Level 14
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1,381
Dark.Revenant and slake are right. Premium maps won't be 1-10 cents, I'm sure.. Not even 20 cents. Since there are very few quality maps that Blizzard will make Premium, why would they sell them for 10 cents?
 
Level 6
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Aug 29, 2008
Messages
134
I dont care about Blizzard making maps. More then 99% of what you see in Custom Games for Warcraft 3 is user-created. So Blizzard doesn't need to be making any maps.... So im not quite sure what your trying to say in your post. Perhaps you should be the one checking what YOU write? This thread is all about map makers selling their own maps, not Blizzard selling Blizzard maps. Though I'll point out, if their are premium maps, I bet some of the money will go to Blizzard. I only say that because thats how the Apple App store works. But I may be wrong.

Off course some of the money goes to Blizz.

And sometimes a little "oopser" may go through when you check your post.

And the premium maps isn't just some apps. It's actual mods.

Like GMod. A great Source mod crated by Garry Newman.
Does that cost, 1-5$? NO! It costs 10$ because it's a great mod.
All the "not so good mods (but playable, and sometimes fun)" doesn't cost anything.

What many of you is looking at in your heads now, is a great War3 map costing 1-5$.
Please remember that this is Star2 premium maps, mods, we talk about.
It shouldn't look anything like Star2 when they are done. It should almost be a completely different game, based on Star2's engine. A mod.


EDIT: I'm glad that some of you, in this thread, have started to understand the concept about the Premium Maps.
 
Level 6
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Messages
156
Why do I get the feeling that in order to sell maps, you have to pay for Battle.net Pro?

And about Spore, look up videos of the alpha, before Maxis "quality control" kicked in. It was borderline amazing. Just like World of Warcraft, the alpha looked amazing, and then "quality control" kicked in and, well, in the end its all about the money.

Don't forget Blizzard isn't your friend, its a corporation. Its a really f*ing awesome corporation, but it still is.
 
Level 6
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Aug 29, 2008
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134
Why do I get the feeling that in order to sell maps, you have to pay for Battle.net Pro?

And about Spore, look up videos of the alpha, before Maxis "quality control" kicked in. It was borderline amazing. Just like World of Warcraft, the alpha looked amazing, and then "quality control" kicked in and, well, in the end its all about the money.

Don't forget Blizzard isn't your friend, its a corporation. Its a really f*ing awesome corporation, but it still is.

Yeah. But i don't think it was Maxis that did the "quality control". On the box, there is some nice letters that spell: "EA".

But back to topic:
I know that Blizzard is a corporation. But they are a corporation that cares about the user, and quality. And of course money.

I don't think Blizz will make a Battle.net Pro. That would be outright stupid. And too BattleForge-ish (cards, and such).


EDIT: I think i'm gonna remove my banner in my signature. It's too big XD
 
Level 5
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201
I didn't mean that Blizzard is going to make their own maps and sell them, I meant Blizzard is going to promote maps to premium category and they are NOT going to sell them for 10 cents. My main problem is that some people think that Blizzard is going to give them for almost free(remember the 10 cents??) and some are so cheap that they won't even give the stupid 10 cents. And WTF with all of you saying that even when maps are going to be 10 cents if ten thousand people dl that's going to be a lot of money, yes that is right but that's TEN THOUSAND people you're talking about, ask yourself how much are you going to give for probably on of the most awesome maps ever made, maybe one dollar or maybe five I don't know but my point is that for just you that isn't much but when you talk about 10k people that becomes a lot so don't think that when a lot of people pay for it it must be cheap.
 
Level 6
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I didn't mean that Blizzard is going to make their own maps and sell them, I meant Blizzard is going to promote maps to premium category and they are NOT going to sell them for 10 cents. My main problem is that some people think that Blizzard is going to give them for almost free(remember the 10 cents??) and some are so cheap that they won't even give the stupid 10 cents. And WTF with all of you saying that even when maps are going to be 10 cents if ten thousand people dl that's going to be a lot of money, yes that is right but that's TEN THOUSAND people you're talking about, ask yourself how much are you going to give for probably on of the most awesome maps ever made, maybe one dollar or maybe five I don't know but my point is that for just you that isn't much but when you talk about 10k people that becomes a lot so don't think that when a lot of people pay for it it must be cheap.

Agreed.
Some people are short sighted in general. But i have to admit, i am also some times.
 
Level 14
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1,381
Agreed.
Some people are short sighted in general. But i have to admit, i am also some times.

Agreed². Some people are short sighted IN GENERAL. And everyone is, sometimes. But that's IN GENERAL. And actually not always. Also, if it costs 5 dollars, and let's say 10 thousand people bought the map, just think. Will they take 50 000$ for themselves ? Sure not. Blizzard takes probably a % of the pay. And probably a huge one.

If you are going to sell your maps, will you think about what I wrote ? (The % thing) Actually many will not. They will just say: "Ahh.. If I sell it, hmm, let's say 1$, and a lot lot lot of people buy it, I will become rich..Like 100 000$ Just for me.." WRONG. That's wrong. What should be reasonable:
"Hmm. If I sell my map 1$ and 1 thousand people buys it. It will make 1 000 dollars. Blizzard will take some percentage, let's say 40%, (although probably more) which will make..400$ for Blizzard, so 600$ for me. Let's keep up the website and forum alive, and pay 200$-300$.Let's say its per month: So that makes 300$ profit per month?" Sure it will be higher, but that's if the map isn't famous and great. So yes, Blizzard will probably take percentage of the paid amount.It's all anyways an offer to encourage mapmakers..
 
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