A Symphony of Frost and Flame (Edited)

[deepstrasz]

Sadly, the changes are too simple, workers not requiring food, some new units that aren't really necessary or that different from any other existing ones. If anything, the Death Revenants might prove too overpowered considering regenerative Death Coil + Essence of Blight (Obsidian Statues).
Other than that, a reskinned Mountain King (which doesn't make sense lorewise especially considering the name) and some other reskins for Arthas and Illidan. The first doesn't have hero glow.
There are also some debug messages appearing: AI COP 01 Gained.

Sorry,
Simple.

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[Loken Ironwolf]

Sadly, the changes are too simple, workers not requiring food, some new units that aren't really necessary or that different from any other existing ones. If anything, the Death Revenants might prove too overpowered considering regenerative Death Coil + Essence of Blight (Obsidian Statues).
Other than that, a reskinned Mountain King (which doesn't make sense lorewise especially considering the name) and some other reskins for Arthas and Illidan. The first doesn't have hero glow.
There are also some debug messages appearing: AI COP 01 Gained.

Sorry,
Simple.

---

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Melee Map Description Generator v1.3

MAPS IN GENERAL
The importance of a Description
Description Guide - Maps
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Map Description Making: Good & Bad
Map Description - Templates
Map Description Generator [1.2]

How to Add a Screenshot to your Map Description

ADDITIONAL NECESSARY INFORMATION

• A credits list in the map thread description is required where the names of the resource (models, skins, icons, spells, sound etc.) authors are mentioned along with the specific resource. It would be a luxury to have links leading to the used resources. Credits in the Quest Log would be appreciated too.
• A detailed changelog in the first post would be helpful to reviewers and notify fans about the newest implementations to your map.
• Map thread tags are important. Please use those that fit and not more or none.

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A Beginner's Guide to Map Making
The Ultimate Beginners Terrain Tutorial
Advanced Terraining Tutorial
A Guideline to Terraining and the Hive's Terraining Section
Various Terraining Tips!
Basic Mapping Video Tutorial
WE Map Editor for Newbies!
The Path Of Proper Map Making - What to do and what should be avoided

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How to create Melee Maps
General - Melee Maps like the Professionals
Competitive Melee Map
Melee mapping - The reasons behind common aspects of competitive 1v1 maps
Melee Do's and Dont's

PATHING
Pathing - Everything about it
[Terraining] Alternative Pathing Technique

LEAKS
Triggers - Memory Leaks and Custom Scripts

If you're not satisfied with the review and wish another opinion, contact the other reviewers or use the staff contact:
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It's ok, like i said in the description, this isnt anything mindblowing, nor did i expect this map to be it, just something i made in spare time and thought to share here. Simplicity is bliss, right?

Workers not requiring food thing is something i liked from Legends of Arkain campaign, and it is annoying when your food cap is compromised from ton of workers that need to be saturated for wood and gold, on top of building an army to do mission objectives. For Death Revenants that is true, but Illidan's Royal Guard tend to really put a hurt in your army, and since the only instant healer is Arthas, your army can get easily damaged if not wiped, so they are nice addition in my eyes. That and it gives people a unit to relax with when they go for Vashj' and Kael's base, or obelisks.

For Mountain King, i thought of it as an Alternate Universe, What If thing, where Arthas doesnt just kill Baelgun, but also raises him as undead, hence why you can play with him in map. Btw, he does have a hero glow, you can just barely see it ingame cause he's a small dude. And yea, reskins only isnt that bad, considering those reskins are really awesome, specially Arthas model. As for COP 01 Gained, that one is strange, ill replay map and see what it's about.

Thanks for the review either way

 

[DuneDog]

This feels like a love letter to players who're itching for a new way to enjoy A Symphony of Frost and Flame and I am HERE FOR IT.

Pros.
•The quality of life touches feel so good (no food for labor units + tiny buildings to jumpstart the intro).
•Absolutely prefer the Arthas model on foot vs the horse; the new skins for Illidan + "Ghostbeard" are great too.
•The new unit, Death Revenant, feel like the undead equivalent of the Naga Royal Guard we scarcely get to use and I LOVE them.
•Hidden High-End item shop in some obscure corner of the map is appreciated, as it sucks being at the mercy of drops or starting items.
•And the shipyard is the best addition. I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to go over to Illidan's base and crater him, but no matter how many wyrms I amassed, I could never put a scratch on his island.

Things I'd recommend.
•In both the original mission and this mod, for some reason, when Banshees possess a peasant, they cannot build any of their structures. That'd be an addition that may be appreciated (although, now that the terrain around the obelisks is a lot cleaner, and thus easier to defend with mass towers, this may not be as relevant).
•Now that the player gets the full 100 food for their army, plus other quality of life perks (third hero, new super powerful T3 unit, pet dragons swoops in at 10min, more items, ect) tweaks should be made (or at least considered) for powering up Illidan's forces as well. The 3v1 "uphill" feeling is what makes this mission so memorable, so at the very least, the difficulty should have the option to be turned up to hard/insane AI.

All in all, it delivered on it's goal, and it shreds my dude! Very fun.

 

[Loken Ironwolf]

This feels like a love letter to players who're itching for a new way to enjoy A Symphony of Frost and Flame and I am HERE FOR IT.

Pros.
•The quality of life touches feel so good (no food for labor units + tiny buildings to jumpstart the intro).
•Absolutely prefer the Arthas model on foot vs the horse; the new skins for Illidan + "Ghostbeard" are great too.
•The new unit, Death Revenant, feel like the undead equivalent of the Naga Royal Guard we scarcely get to use and I LOVE them.
•Hidden High-End item shop in some obscure corner of the map is appreciated, as it sucks being at the mercy of drops or starting items.
•And the shipyard is the best addition. I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to go over to Illidan's base and crater him, but no matter how many wyrms I amassed, I could never put a scratch on his island.

Things I'd recommend.
•In both the original mission and this mod, for some reason, when Banshees possess a peasant, they cannot build any of their structures. That'd be an add may be appreciated (although, now that the terrain around the altar's is a lot cleaner, and thus easier to defend with mass towers, this may not be as relevant).
•Now that the player gets the full 100 food for their army, plus other quality of life perks (third hero, new super powerful T3 unit, pet dragons swoops in at 10min, more items, ect) tweaks should be made (or at least considered) for powering up Illidan's forces as well. The 3v1 "uphill" feeling is what makes this mission so memorable, so at the very least, the difficulty should have the option to be turned up to hard/insane AI.

All in all, it delivered on it's goal, and it shreds my dude! Very fun.

When you put it that way, it kinda is, even though it wasnt entirely intentional haha

-Yea, i loved that quality of life touch since playing Legends of Arkain campaign, it feels great when your food cap is not compromised from ton of workers that always need to be saturated for gold and lumber. And the tiny buildings addition is i imagined as the quest reward if you do all three Azjol Nerub secondary quests where you collect gold coins.
-Yup, that was kinda the idea behind adding the Death Revenant, especially when you have to fight Illidan's Royal guard that either defend the base or follow him as retinue.
-Right? It's a much more fun option than killing some polar bears just to get hp boost item lol
-Same man, same The thing is, the Frost Wyrms have light armor and Couatls have piercing damage, which do extra dmg on light armor, which is why there are so many at illidan's main base, cause they snipe those poor wyrms before you can do anything. Especially with the snap dragons having that annoying poison that slows the wyrms movement and attack rate (as if they aren't slow enough with their attacks lol) I had thought at first of adding an Undead Barge to fly over the water and drop your units in base, but having an armada of ships invading Illidan's base seemed like a better and more dramatic option.

-I think that was exactly why they removed the build structures from peasants. One of, if not THE favorite gimmicks with Undead faction is using Banshees to possess workers (lord knows how many times i did that in Monolith map back in the day ), so they can basically get another faction to play with (in this map it would basically be undead, naga and blood elves in one package). Though in this instance i might add the buildings, just as another fun factor. And if that doesnt get a positive feedback, its a simple matter of resetting the workers.
-I'm not exactly an expert with AI editing, but you do have a point, i might have to boost Illidan, Kael and Vashj a bit to compensate for boons players have, and i'll do my best to make hard difficulty live up to its name

Thanks alot for the post and rating, i appreciate it, and ill keep this map updated if there are anymore interesting ideas and suggestions

 

[Lazarator]

I always wondered where is Saphiron now to help Arthas when I needed him the most, and there he is! This map is a great addition to the original map, with these simple, yet effective changes. It does make the map A LOT easier, though, but it surely gives a finger to the annoying AI, which was very satisfying after it kept ruining my childhood with their constant attacks
I liked Baelgun. At first, I thought it was Muradin, but when I started playing I saw it was actually Baelgun, which surprised me even more! I thought he'd received some newer spells, since he's the undead, though, but no matter. It was fun playing with him, along with Arthas and Anub'arak, nevertheless.
Additional Revenant unit was great as well. Maybe a bit too OP unit, yet a great addition to Naga Royal Guards.
As I mentioned before, I think the map could be even more challenging after increasing its difficulty. Perhaps making AI's attacks more frequent with more units in attack waves? Of course, there is always room for more changes on the map, like adding new stuff that you can think of

 

[Loken Ironwolf]

I always wondered where is Saphiron now to help Arthas when I needed him the most, and there he is! This map is a great addition to the original map, with these simple, yet effective changes. It does make the map A LOT easier, though, but it surely gives a finger to the annoying AI, which was very satisfying after it kept ruining my childhood with their constant attacks
I liked Baelgun. At first, I thought it was Muradin, but when I started playing I saw it was actually Baelgun, which surprised me even more! I thought he'd received some newer spells, since he's the undead, though, but no matter. It was fun playing with him, along with Arthas and Anub'arak, nevertheless.
Additional Revenant unit was great as well. Maybe a bit too OP unit, yet a great addition to Naga Royal Guards.
As I mentioned before, I think the map could be even more challenging after increasing its difficulty. Perhaps making AI's attacks more frequent with more units in attack waves? Of course, there is always room for more changes on the map, like adding new stuff that you can think of

Thank you. I always wondered too, last time we see Sapphiron is where he killed some dwarves before Arthas sent him away because he can't go in Azjol Nerub. That part i understood why, it's a subterranean kingdom after all, but i was really disappointed that he just pissed off and never showed up at last mission lol
Yea, he has muradin soundset, so i can understand the confusion I came up with Baelgun idea as an AU, what if thing, where Arthas raises him as undead so he can be of use against Illidan in final mission. You know, all the help you can get mindset.
Sadly from what i've tried to figure out, i cant change the campaign map difficulties at all, so i will have to edit the default normal mode gameplay into hard mode to compensate for the player boosts.

 

[DuneDog]

When you put it that way, it kinda is, even though it wasnt entirely intentional haha

-Yea, i loved that quality of life touch since playing Legends of Arkain campaign, it feels great when your food cap is not compromised from ton of workers that always need to be saturated for gold and lumber. And the tiny buildings addition is i imagined as the quest reward if you do all three Azjol Nerub secondary quests where you collect gold coins.
-Yup, that was kinda the idea behind adding the Death Revenant, especially when you have to fight Illidan's Royal guard that either defend the base or follow him as retinue.
-Right? It's a much more fun option than killing some polar bears just to get hp boost item lol
-Same man, same The thing is, the Frost Wyrms have light armor and Couatls have piercing damage, which do extra dmg on light armor, which is why there are so many at illidan's main base, cause they snipe those poor wyrms before you can do anything. Especially with the snap dragons having that annoying poison that slows the wyrms movement and attack rate (as if they aren't slow enough with their attacks lol) I had thought at first of adding an Undead Barge to fly over the water and drop your units in base, but having an armada of ships invading Illidan's base seemed like a better and more dramatic option.

-I think that was exactly why they removed the build structures from peasants. One of, if not THE favorite gimmicks with Undead faction is using Banshees to possess workers (lord knows how many times i did that in Monolith map back in the day ), so they can basically get another faction to play with (in this map it would basically be undead, naga and blood elves in one package). Though in this instance i might add the buildings, just as another fun factor. And if that doesnt get a positive feedback, its a simple matter of resetting the workers.
-I'm not exactly an expert with AI editing, but you do have a point, i might have to boost Illidan, Kael and Vashj a bit to compensate for boons players have, and i'll do my best to make hard difficulty live up to its name

Thanks alot for the post and rating, i appreciate it, and ill keep this map updated if there are anymore interesting ideas and suggestions

A quick addendum to my "it should be more challenging to compensate for your new perks" comment-- I've just discovered some maps by someone with the name of Pyraeus and I think you may find they inspire some ideas. The changes this dude makes to campaign maps are insane.

 

[Loken Ironwolf]

A quick addendum to my "it should be more challenging to compensate for your new perks" comment-- I've just discovered some maps by someone with the name of Pyraeus and I think you may find they inspire some ideas. The changes this dude makes to campaign maps are insane.

True, but his changes are not exactly to my taste for several reasons. TLDR version is that his maps are mostly tailored for 2 people to play (which i was never a fan of), thus he had to crank up stuff around the map to 11, so it presents a challenge. Besides, some of his ideas are hardly applicable to this particular map, especially since you command a single army. But i might consider ideas like destroying gateways and such from Illidan's side, or some similar idea to make map more interesting.

Thanks for info tho

 

[Blasterixx]

~~~Oh Boy!
Before everything else, I must say I played this map using version 1.29 of War3.

This map is incredibly challenging! It took me about five attempts to defeat all the enemy bases. Illidan's base has an army worth around 400 food, while I can only muster a maximum of 100. It's insane! Even though their units have no upgrades, they just have so many of them and keep producing more from their buildings non-stop. It’s insane! On top of that, there are also the two other enemy bases (Kael and Vash), which also have at least 200 food of op units, and they are fully upgraded by the end, haha, and how can I forget... the additional two gates, that spawn those overpowered Naga monsters that attack my base. What a delightful mess! But I won in the end, so it's cool!

Another major problem is that frost wyrms don't deal magic damage, which creates a significant lack of strong magic damage units to counter their heavy armor. The death revenants are decent, but they are basically the only good units I have.

I would have never managed to defeat Illidan's base without the undead ships, tho. I guess that's always the trick—massing an infinite number of ships since they cost no food! A genius idea, I must say so myself!

Overall, I liked the new changes and the challenge. It was difficult but not impossible. Winning the map by controlling all four obelisks is easy, but defeating all the bases beforehand is the real challenge, and it was fun!

I can't rate the map too highly since it is merely a revamp of the original campaign map.
So my rating is an 𝓐 Tier (Great) with a score of 85 out of 100 points!

Here is my playthrough, since this is the 5th time I replay the map, I just skipped the intro cinematic, you can understand my frustration.

 

[Loken Ironwolf]

~~~Oh Boy!
Before everything else, I must say I played this map using version 1.29 of War3.

This map is incredibly challenging! It took me about five attempts to defeat all the enemy bases. Illidan's base has an army worth around 400 food, while I can only muster a maximum of 100. It's insane! Even though their units have no upgrades, they just have so many of them and keep producing more from their buildings non-stop. It’s insane! On top of that, there are also the two other enemy bases (Kael and Vash), which also have at least 200 food of op units, and they are fully upgraded by the end, haha, and how can I forget... the additional two gates, that spawn those overpowered Naga monsters that attack my base. What a delightful mess! But I won in the end, so it's cool!

Another major problem is that frost wyrms don't deal magic damage, which creates a significant lack of strong magic damage units to counter their heavy armor. The death revenants are decent, but they are basically the only good units I have.

I would have never managed to defeat Illidan's base without the undead ships, tho. I guess that's always the trick—massing an infinite number of ships since they cost no food! A genius idea, I must say so myself!

Overall, I liked the new changes and the challenge. It was difficult but not impossible. Winning the map by controlling all four obelisks is easy, but defeating all the bases beforehand is the real challenge, and it was fun!

I can't rate the map too highly since it is merely a revamp of the original campaign map.
So my rating is an 𝓐 Tier (Great) with a score of 85 out of 100 points!

Here is my playthrough, since this is the 5th time I replay the map, I just skipped the intro cinematic, you can understand my frustration.

Apparently, cause that obelisk text box squish during Sapphiron countdown definitely doesnt happen on my ancient 1.26 version

Few comments first while i was watching the video:

- Is your music reduced in game settings or is that another game version issue?

- at 4:52 you could've used mini altar and tomb of relics, to save up on resources.

- 25:57 where did that bloodfeather heart drop came from? I dont remember it being droppable lol

- 32:25 Not sure why Vashj stopped attacking your base from that point. Good for you i guess, since your base would've been gone with you attacking kael's base

- I couldn't help but laugh my ass off at 1:02:04 where you went like "Win save. Win save? Yeah, win save" as if you were definitely sure you'd win that one lol

That said, no wonder why it took you five attempts cause it's a pretty aggressive playthrough lol. I mean, with the resources that you have and 3 tiny buildings to start, you could've easily fortified the starting position base for the first 3 waves until you dish out revenants and such, instead of defending on multiple fronts while gaining and losing ground. There were alot of casualties throughout the video that i imagine you could've avoided if you varied your army a bit, instead of it being frost wyrm and revenant doomstack. Like using Necromancers to boost Sapphiron and Revenants with Unholy Frenzy (especially Sapphiron, since he becomes a machine gun with UF), using Decayed Couatls and Acid Wyrms for backline support, Spell thiefs to steal Sea Elementals, among other combos available after wiping Kael and Vashj bases. And the push for Illidan's base would've been FAR easier if you used the Dragonbone Reapers after you destroyed the gates. They're so op that they're basically a middle finger to Illidan and his army after all the agony you went through from the start

The piercing attack on Frost Wyrms is mostly to deal with light armor units that seem to focus them down like Couatls, but the thing with Frost Wyrms is that they're not that useful on this map, at least during my playthroughs. Due to their light armor they either get mulched bv Couatls before you could do anything, or they get pinned down by Myrmidons and Dragonhawk riders. Even with Death Revenants, its an annoying hp management, and because of their slow attack speed, they're really not worth 7 food, unless they're constantly fed with UF.

Yeah, at first wanted to add food to the ships too, but having an armada of ships to make Kul Tirans blush is an idea that i in the end adored as well, so i stuck with it. And it makes a really cool sea fight between undead ships and sea monsters

Thank you so much for the rating, i'm glad you managed to overcome the challenge and had fun along the way, makes all the changes worth it. And thank you for the video, it gave me an insight on where i need to make some more edits here and there.

 

[Blasterixx]

Yeah, all your points make sense. Like I said, I've tried winning with different strategies in my past runs, but I always end up losing my whole army to Illidan or when I go after one of the other two bases, and that’s it.

- I’m not sure what's up with the music volume; it might depend on the version. Just the usual Warcraft 3 craziness, I guess.

- I totally forgot about the mini items; I usually just sell them since they can get you some decent cash, lol.

- The Bloodfeather Heart drops from one of those original monsters at the west obelisk. Pretty sure it’s always been there as a drop in all my runs.

- It was cool that Vash stopped attacking at one point; I think the AI got a bit buggy. Oh well!

I loved that we got new units after successfully taking down Kael and Vash's bases. However, the downside is that most of their units are quite weak, so I didn't really bother using them much. I found the gimmick interesting, but ultimately, I only built a few of them in my previous runs just to see how they looked and what they could do. That was about it.

As for adding more support casters and stuff for variety in my army, I could’ve done that if I was a better player, haha . But you know what they say: simplicity is the way to go. The more complicated the army, the tougher it is to manage.

Glad you enjoyed my review and video! Keep up the awesome work!