oh. but the one who finds 'emerald' a bit shitty is myself. it's a pompous word. and rolls the tongue way too much. i'd rather name it "jade vizier". sounds more spiritual and artistic. but, hell, this talk has been already too big, and at this time i should worry about the model rather than its name, you know...
Oh my what did you do to the Beastmaster? @_@
Ahhhhh, I see. Well, while I disagree, I think it's cool you have such a specific vision.oh. but the one who finds 'emerald' a bit shitty is myself. it's a pompous word. and rolls the tongue way too much. i'd rather name it "jade vizier". sounds more spiritual and artistic. but, hell, this talk has been already too big, and at this time i should worry about the model rather than its name, you know...
PROXY said:Basic mesh without proper wrap, animations or textures
Lookin' good, you two. Chen, glad to see you got the image-thing working (kinda). Looking forward to a neat Tuskarr hero; we don't have almost any of those. I can think of a few people interested in seeing you accomplish it...Chen said:WIP:
That's cool, but who is the base unit?
You don't understand.
What is the unit that you turned into hero? The point of the contest is to take a unit and make a hero out of him - for example, Footman --> Grand Marshal, etc. See the posts by Kyrbi0 on the first page for examples.
Yeah... Well, I'm just hoping the judges will reflect that in their judging.![]()
Now that's a bit unfair. I'm not confident enough in my animation skills to animate an organic unit(though I think I did pretty well with the few mechanical ones I animated), and I think using Blizzard's ingame animations in my case is entirely justified. My whole concept came from using a specific animation set and some specific WC3 models that I could modify, so I don't feel like it's fair to punish people like myself just because we can't animate well enough. The same should apply for ingame textures vs custom ones, and geomerges vs scratch models.
Yes, that sounds entirely justifiable and a lot more logical than just "minus points for Blizzard stuff, bonus points for custom stuff". I'm already working on a lot of what you said(seamless mesh, consistent animations, scratch-made augmentations such as her hair and bow), etc. Thanks for clarifying.![]()
scratch modelling obviously takes more time and skill
Lies and slander.
You also have to consider the facts that rarely any scratch-made models fits WC3 well. That is to say, map makers are more likely to use model edits than scratch-made models in their maps. There's also the fact that model-editors work with much more limited resources than scratch-modelers(they have to look up fitting textures, etc - whereas people who can texture can overcome all of that and just texture whatever they want). It takes a bit more 'ingenuity'\creativity\however you want to call it to find the proper in-game textures for your model, and use them well.
You guys bring up an age-old debate, and quite a pertinent one for this contest.BlinkBoy & Deolrin said:To the rest of the participants. I strongly advice the use of custom animations. I'm not the kind of guy who gives much credits for using plain simple blizzard animations
~
Now that's a bit unfair. I'm not confident enough in my animation skills to animate an organic unit(though I think I did pretty well with the few mechanical ones I animated), and I think using Blizzard's ingame animations in my case is entirely justified. My whole concept came from using a specific animation set and some specific WC3 models that I could modify, so I don't feel like it's fair to punish people like myself just because we can't animate well enough. The same should apply for ingame textures vs custom ones, and geomerges vs scratch models.
~
Normaly people who mix in-game animations make a bit unconsistant blends and the animations don't fit the theme.
A good example of using in-game animations is Whitedeath's shaman. He used the base animations of the beast master but he added others that blended well and fitted his model's theme to it. In that case it's okey if you use them, but remember that this is a modeling contest and model consistency earns credits. Normaly people who make models from scratch have very consistant models and it's where they get credits compared to model editers.
If you are going to do edits, make sure to polish the edit pretty well. No unconsistant animations, good blending. Geomerges should appear without seams and connected perfectly to the rest of the mesh looks unified and not like a soup. Adding some scratch made meshes is also adviceable, as well as good unwrapping.
About textures, I don't mind if somebody uses in-game textures and I won't be tought on textures since this is a modeling contest, not a texturing contest. The only thing that could really hit you by using in-game textures is consistency and color theory. If your model has inconsistant color blending, you'll lose credits. (look for color theory for more information about it).
~
Yes, that sounds entirely justifiable and a lot more logical than just "minus points for Blizzard stuff, bonus points for custom stuff". I'm already working on a lot of what you said(seamless mesh, consistent animations, scratch-made augmentations such as her hair and bow), etc. Thanks for clarifying.![]()
~
It should be that way. It is a bit unfair that modelers who model fully from scratch have to compete with model editers under the same circunstances, since scratch modelling obviously takes more time and skill (sorry but it's true). Before when we had more people, we used to sepparate the contest for model editing and scratch modelling.
Anyways, the standards I mentioned before is what I'll use to judge. So what I just said in the last paragraph is my personal opinion, not how I'll judge.
~
Lies and slander.
You also have to consider the facts that rarely any scratch-made models fits WC3 well. That is to say, map makers are more likely to use model edits than scratch-made models in their maps. There's also the fact that model-editors work with much more limited resources than scratch-modelers(they have to look up fitting textures, etc - whereas people who can texture can overcome all of that and just texture whatever they want). It takes a bit more 'ingenuity'\creativity\however you want to call it to find the proper in-game textures for your model, and use them well.
~
You just gave me the reason. Scratch modelling is more difficult (well not really for animations, but you must know how to use IK systems). In model editing you use in-game textures if you can't texture, that's a skill. Finding a good in-game texture takes a lot less time than making a good texture from scratch. Geomerging is not hard it's just repeatitive boring if you want to keep the skinning correct.
The reason why people use more model edits is simple: 95% of the models made for wc3 are model edits and of the scratch modelled only 15% were made by people who really knew how to use 3dsmax/gmax, the rest just tried.
MESH | The geometry of the model, the wire-frame that gives your model a physical form and silhouette. Does the shape look clean or deformed? Are all ends capped, are there any stray faces, etc? Clean, distinctive meshes graded highly; deformed or incomplete meshes graded poorly. | 10 pts |
ANIMATIONS | The movement of your model. The animations give your model life, character, a personality. Are these animations smooth or choppy; organic or puppet-like? Do the animations deform or clip parts of the mesh? Smooth, life-like anims graded highly; choppy or lifeless anims graded poorly. | 10 pts |
TEXTURE/UV WRAP | The skin, or texture of a model, expresses many important aspects of the character. Is the texture well made; is it blurry, does it have a pleasant color scheme, does it have detail, etc? Or, if In-Game textures were used, how well was it wrapped? Are there parts that are clipped, misaligned or stretched? Clean, effective textures graded highly; cluttered or haphazard textures graded poorly. | 10 pts |
raises an interesting point. If you're not going to be tough on textures because this isn't a texturing contest, then I don't understand how you can be tough on animations; this also isn't an animation contest. It's solely a modeling contest, so by definition, we should only be considering Meshes for judging.BlinkBoy said:...About textures, I don't mind if somebody uses in-game textures and I won't be tought on textures since this is a modeling contest, not a texturing contest...
Curious, though; whatever happened to that Furion-turned-Goblin-Tradeprince? :'<
The "Rules" include the concept of using either In-Game, Custom, or Both. Then, paying special attention to the Animation section (but in all three), I must insist that there was no emphasis given to either In-Game or Custom animation (or anything, really), and that this was done quite specifically to even the odds. Therefore there is no basis for any judge (using the provided Criteria) to prefer Custom animations (or mesh, or textures, etc) over In-Game ones. As long as they are (as stated above) "smooth, life-like, clean, distinctive, effective, etc".
*sniff* Well, the Goblin Merchant, while technically a Building, does have a little Goblin dude (Unit) scurrying around the catwalks in one animations... So that counts?... :<Will do it after the contest. I had a sudden spurt of inspiration to work on the night elf, and I still think making a hero of a building is silly.
<3
To the rest of the participants. I strongly advice the use of custom animations. I'm not the kind of guy who gives much credits for using plain simple blizzard animations
raises an interesting point. If you're not going to be tough on textures because this isn't a texturing contest, then I don't understand how you can be tough on animations; this also isn't an animation contest. It's solely a modeling contest, so by definition, we should only be considering Meshes for judging.
Anyway, I hope that clears things up from a Criteria perspective, as well as throws my opinion, as gasoline, on this potentially raging flame.Notice I have used the posted Judging Criteria rather heavily in my support of how this Contest should be run; If the Criteria does not work, please speak up now with what should be changed. The last thing any of us want is to come to the end of the contest & have this huge flame-war about "but the criteria said this, so I did that!". Let's all be mature.
Deolrin said:BlinkBoy, you must see sense
Then explain to me how I make it fair for people who uses in-game textures vs custom made?
That's as far as I read, man you can't convince anyone with saying he's out of his senses for staters. I'm sorry, but I don't think I have insulted you and if I have I'm deeply sorry, but that's a no way to go for me.
Classic Jigrael Naga; looks great so far.Thanks SuPa, yours looks godly. Did you made the texture for the low poly model using a high res mesh?
@Freddyk, I like how its looking, reminds me of transformer, looks cool
Another wip, almost done with the texture.