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Modelling Contest #25 - Ascension

Discussion in 'Contest Archive' started by Kyrbi0, Jul 27, 2013.

  1. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    ~~~

    Huh? Looks great, but what exactly did you change?

    I don't recognize those animations... Don't tell me you learned how to animate as well. Put me to shame... Man, that Troll Dino-dude is gonna be [rainbow]so cool[/rainbow]! :p

    Lookin' real good. As a nitpicky side note, I don't know if it's too late to change, but I would've tried to make the symbols on her runic arm-drapes a little more uniform (i.e. make the fact that you used your initials and a smiley less obvious :p); perhaps incorporating a few dots on the top two figures, as well as mixing up the order a bit (1, 2, and 4 are very similar; perhaps 1-3-4-5-2, or even 2-5-1-3-4).

    Then again, it's probably barely an issue in-game. :p Just had to express my OCD.

    Hum... Well, an interesting idea, giving a Sorceror a blade & shield... What exactly are you making? That would help you determine where to go next.

    Until you figure that out, all I or anyone can really suggest is "make him more different". Can't just submit the Blood Mage with some attachments, right? :p Different/removed shoulderpads & cloak, different face/head (or modify it sufficiently), maybe different armor or other attachments...

    Yeah, gotta decide what he is. Big difference between "Gladiator" and "Clown Lord", right? : )

    FIRST OF ALL, don't feel bad about slow progress. You got some crazy-fast modders in this thread; remember, you still have, like, 5-6 weeks. Take your time. :p Besides, from all that I'm seeing, you haven't been wasting it.

    Mount:
    Alright, I am loving the makeover that Turtle shell has gotten. Good & simple Team-Color, very uniform, cool throne/pedestal idea, and just smoothly integrated overall. Make a few changes to that Turtle... Maybe a canopy or something behind/over the throne... And this guy is done (that is, aside from the Murloc himself :p).

    On that note, I really think you needn't worry about "realism" as much as "game-usage". Mounted units are tricky because if the 'disparity' between the units (rider & mount) are too great, one will dwarf the other. The Goblin Alchemist is a decent example; the Ogre is huge compared to the Goblin, but they kinda made him a smaller Ogre than your normal Ogre.

    Same thing here; I think despite the stone throne & stuff being heavy... it's Warcraft! Crazier things have happened. You can make a smaller turtle, and (based on my memory of how big he is normally) that might be necessary. That, and other aesthetic changes (claws? different face? longer neck/tail? thinner legs with bigger feet? etc)

    Rider:
    I'm going to have to disagree with you, and agree with you at the same time. :p Totally stick with making an Intelligence hero; that's exactly the kind of thing the Naga/Murloc needs (or rather, this model needs). However, you should totally make it a sort of "Royal Murloc"; who says royalty needs to be Strength? In fact, they'd probably disdain direct combat and utilize ranged combat or spells. Or minions. :p

    In fact, that reminds me of a really cool idea that I've only seen once (and poorly at that) in "The Tales of Ravignion": Warhammer. Make a Slann.
    Warhammer "Slann"

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Nothing like a giant, abysmally obese Toad/Frog-dude as the King of all the frog/fish-people (Murloc), riding on his ridiculous floating (or turtle-driven) throne.

    Definitely do the Naga Altar "orb" idea for that pedestal. With that, he doesn't even need a staff; just have the Hero animated as rubbing the orb to fire off his spells!

    Man, this could be really cool.


    Lol, this is actually a great idea; make a second, alternate submission for in case your main, more-awexome one doesn't work out in the time-line. I don't know why it's not good enough; in fact, it almost looks better than the PotM (an actual face, a cooler bow, etc).
     
  2. icewolf055

    icewolf055

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    lol sorry just because i didnt really get it so i asked again :p
     
  3. BallisticTerrain

    BallisticTerrain

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    I'm back, and with a completely new model!
    This time I attempted to exaggerate proportions and use a significantly lower number of polys to make this model blend better with warcraft 3.
    This is just a mesh WIP, I will be tweaking it and adding things later on.

    Triangle count is 1,070, and I can reduce it further if needed.

    Wireframe 1
    [​IMG]


    Wireframe 2
    [​IMG]


    Shaded
    [​IMG]


    A pretty render that is totally not meant to subtly work on your emotions and thoughts.
    [​IMG]


    It's missing something right now, but I'm still pretty pleased with the current state. Thoughts?

    To Select People:
    WARCRAFT ENOUGH FOR YAH?
     
  4. MiniMage

    MiniMage

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    Squidward the friendly sorcerer. ;D
     
  5. A.R.

    A.R.

    Texture Reviewer

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    Needs MOAR.

    What you've got would work fine in HoMMVI or Majesty 2 but WCIII has a really distinct style.
    Without huge, over-exaggerated, iconic features which are easily identifiable at a distance, it will just look like a stick figure in-game. Especially compared to other units and heroes. I had the same problem with mine.

    The best way to judge is to import it into WorldEdit and compare your model with similar WCIII ones. Look at the silhouette or general shape of a hero model and what features stand out. The Warden, Dreadlord and Lich have really strong and identifiable shapes.

    ---

    On the model itself, the topology looks great. My only thoughts are that the skirt thing probably needs an extra segment or two for better articulation.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2013
  6. Chucky

    Chucky

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    Well here are my wips for now, been busy, it's for the knight, a holy/cellestial knight hero if you may call it that...everything is made from scratch and I could REALLY use some feedback...
    WIP01.png
    WIP02.png
    WIP03.png

    And can anyone tell me why my normals are fucked up when I export from max using the NeoDex exporter ?
    mesh_error.png
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2013
  7. BallisticTerrain

    BallisticTerrain

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    Thanks AR. I'm going to try and increase the size of the hands, and add more detail/emphasis to the chains coming out of the bottom of his kilt thing. Maybe some hooks on the end of them. After that I'll post another WIP and we'll see if I need to add anything else.
     
  8. BallisticTerrain

    BallisticTerrain

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    The mesh seems ok, but it is lacking definition. This is just because you haven't finished it yet so that isn't a problem. But can we see the wireframe? You have 1700 something polys which means about about 3,400 triangles. If we can see it maybe we can point out some places where you don't need as many polys.

    EDIT:
    Ok, I increased the size of the hands and added hooks. I think I need to add something somewhere near the head next.
    Here is a sketchfab 3D preview. (Thanks for showing us that site SuPa.)

    https://sketchfab.com/show/33219e9c6b044208aa9227f352144599
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2013
  9. Chucky

    Chucky

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    Here are the wireframes and about the definition I thought I could use the texture to do that, I still need to add pieces of armor on him and a cape, will dress the horse as well...Don't know why it turned out so crappy, I modelled them both after references...Anyway BlinkyBoy said there's no limit on pollies and I'm thinking or remaking it...really dissapointed
    wire01.png
    wire02.png
    wire03.png
    wire04.png
    Oh and ballistic you could try making him more broader in his shoulders, that would make him stand out and maybe add some particles, so far I like how it's going, can't wait for the finished model !
     
  10. BallisticTerrain

    BallisticTerrain

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    The topology on the guy is a little messy. Try as hard as you can to keep the model made out of nothing but quads. The horse looks good, but you need to remake his tail. Next time use fewer segments and taper it near the end. And then weld all of the verts into a point for the last bit of the tail.

    I did a few annotations in photoshop to show you where you need to fix topology.

    Man
    [​IMG]


    1: Stars. Stars are bad. They mess up shading and animation. Try to remove edges that do not A) Contribute to silhouette or B) Help with animation.

    2: More stars. Kill them.

    3: Stars. Try to make sure every intersection has only 4 edges leading to it. 5 is sometimes ok, but you don't want 6 or more except in some cases where it is required. (Like the top of a sphere.)

    4: Thats an N-Gon. (polygon with more than four sides.) Also messes up shading and animation. Try cutting it into two separate polygons.

    5: This entire string of polys seems unneeded. Weld them together if you can.

    There is also another pair of stars I just noticed in the armpit under 3.

    Try to fix mistakes like this over the whole model. It will make it all around better.

    Horse
    [​IMG]


    1: N-Gon again. Try to get rid of it.

    2: This isn't a big problem but if you have extra time see if you can also get rid of it.

    As for my model, I tried broader shoulders earlier on and they looked wrong. I will add particles later though.

    Ninja Edit:
    "Wings!"
    [​IMG]
     
  11. Chucky

    Chucky

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    Thanks a bunch, going from 2d art to 3d modelling is a bit of a hassle and these were my first models ever :D I guess I need more practice...btw yours is in Zbrush then exported to Max ?
     
  12. BallisticTerrain

    BallisticTerrain

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    Well, I tried to use Zbrush to make and retopologize the face of the first character, but that didn't work because it didn't blend with warcraft 3 well. I made the character you're looking at now entirely in max. I mostly use Zbrush for 3d concepts and extremely detailed models. Sometimes for environment art and faces.

    If this is your first time making models, it might be better to practice on something other than a character first. Characters are hard.
    UV mapping is frustrating to learn, and it's required for texturing. Plus, you're using max 10, which doesn't have the advanced UV tools that come with max 2012 and onward and make unwrapping things much easier.
    Before you animate anything make sure you read blinkboy's simple animation tutorial and look up the twelve principles of animation.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2013
  13. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    I'd love to comment at length but have no time. Thus:

    @BallisticTerrain: Looking great! Very glad we (or having to remake the mesh) didn't scare you off! And yes, it's definitely a lot more Warcraft-y. :p

    However, it's missing something. Unfortunately I don't have time now to say anything about it, but AnemicRoyalty pretty much covered it from head-to-toe. Follow his advice and you'll get much farther than I could get you. :p

    That being said, I'd love to comment on what "extra" could be given him for that true Wc3 style/silhouette (love that word)... But it would help to know what exactly he is. Aside from a Hero-Necromancer (as the original), I'm not sure if you still intend for him to be the "Spore Lord" dude ("Fungimancer"? "Toadstool Prince"? "Mycomancer"? "Keeper of the Spores"? etc.). Either way, I have to say that he already looks too much like another "hero-ified Necromancer"; doesn't the Lich have those exact same feathery-tentacle-robe-things that he hovers on? Might want to redesign that part, if only for the sake of the profile-comparison with the Lich. :<

    Lookin' good, though.

    @Chucky: Awexome! I've always wanted to see a super-Knight... Make sure as a "holy crusader" not to encroach too much on the Paladin & his artistic style.

    Not sure exactly how you'll do it, but if you end up following some ancient Beta concept art...
    Let's just say we'd all be impressed. The Crusader needs Wc3 revival. :p

    Either way, looking forward to it. Again, I can't really help you aside from with ideas; BT's probably doing much more to help you in terms of mesh adjustments. Listen well, my child. :p Good luck!
     
  14. BallisticTerrain

    BallisticTerrain

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    Not sure if you saw latest update Krybi.

    "Reveal"
    [​IMG]


    How does that look? Sorry for double posting, but people might miss it.
    I still need to come up with a name for him. Definitely not mushroom themed anymore. More "Guardian of the Dead" now.
     
  15. Chucky

    Chucky

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    Thanks for the encouragement, I already started to redefine the rider's mesh and it's looking much better thanks to BallisticTerrain's suggestions. As for the art style I won't go for a typical War3 Paladin but something quite different, something related to angels and the sun, sun power, basically kind of a mounted human angel, divine protector of all that's pure and noble. Can't wait to start adding particles :D
     
  16. BallisticTerrain

    BallisticTerrain

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    I have a question, will I get a lower score when it comes time for judging if I have missing faces on the inside of the skull helmet where they can't be seen to reduce poly count?
     
  17. MiniMage

    MiniMage

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    I think it would be stupid if they did. Since many wc3 models are like that. The intention is to get a model that fits warcraft. Thus by that logic, it would only contribute to that aspect, right?
     
  18. stonneash

    stonneash

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    It happens to me too, try AT animating through NeoDex, there is a tutorial for that.
     
  19. BallisticTerrain

    BallisticTerrain

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    Here's a blockout of team color. I'm not completely done modeling yet, but I want to go ahead and figure out where to put all of it.
    Straight up read means normal team color.
    Gradient/fuzzy red means hero glow.

    Reveal
    [​IMG]


    I'm also thinking of making the portrait a separate model and making said model noticeably higher resolution than the original mesh since I only have to keep the head and a few other parts.
     
  20. HappyCockroach

    HappyCockroach

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    here's a sketch of my idea...
     

    Attached Files: